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 "Welcome to the family son."The plot of this game is really a shame, because I think gameplay wise, the game was a huge step up from Awakening, and has some of the best map design in the series. I'm really hoping that going forward, the series refines some of the rougher additions, like some of the uneven weapon modifiers, but Fates has a great basis for the future.
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Feb 15, 2017 20:59
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Last Celebration posted:I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but this story has a load of production issues, but that discussion's really for when we're balls-deep in Conquest since Birthright is mostly a middling Fire Emblem Story. Really? I'd be very interested in hearing about the issues Conquest's story had during development. Is there any place I can find out about them outside this thread?
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Feb 16, 2017 04:58
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Just to give an idea of what my thoughts on the story are: I loved Conquest gameplay wise. And yet, a certain plot development halfway through made the story so excruciatingly bad, I wound up getting heavily deterred from playing. Last I checked, i'm still at Chapter 18 (Also Chapter 17 was a real pain, but we'll get to that.)
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Feb 16, 2017 10:36
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So for me, this was the start of where the morality balance between the kingdoms started to plummet downwards. My first thought upon seeing the Faceless were "Oh, I guess we'll kick off issues Hoshido has by revealing that they have internal issues with monsters. Okay, i'm on board with that." And then. Tae posted:
Oh. Well that just makes Nohr look like even more of a gigantic pile of poo poo, doesn't it? Another thing to note: Tae posted:
So if you put any kind of thought into this, the barrier kind of has horrifying implications about potential control of the populace, the nobility's obsession with order and maintaining a regime, and all that jazz. In the hands of a good writer, this could lead to a fantastic dichotomy between the two nations. Think Ultima VII: Part 2, and how it explored the evil that can come with devoting one's self to pure order and pure chaos. This would be a great angle to take for the story, right? Ahahahahahahahahaha... 
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Feb 17, 2017 04:51
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Creatures with no will of their own. Created by Nohrian mages.
Our mother, Queen Mikoto, put up a magical barrier around our kingdom.
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inthesto posted:This would be demanding far too much out of any Fire Emblem game, much less Fates. It is wishful thinking on my part given the track record of the series, but I feel that past games have dipped their toes enough into more complex themes that trying to tackle Order vs Chaos in Fates, while likely not being anything on Obsidian or CD Project Red level, would be a solid story that would make use of the dual kingdoms. Radiant Dawn showed they had the ability to write in concepts like Order's with the villains surrounding Lehran and Ashera. I have more to say on how Fates could have handled it, but I want to wait further down the line to go into detail. ohmygorgon posted:Speaking of Radiant Dawn, for everyone who dislikes the story in Fates, it really isn't much worse than what has always been for Fire Emblem. I would say Radiant Dawn has a worse story than Fates. Radiant Dawn I feel had a stronger story than Fates, but it wasn't very good. It was an overbloated, unfocused mess full of contrivances, but it had good chunks of story, enough to elevate it above Fates. Part 2 was a unique story for the series, and one I think was pulled off fairly well for the most part. I do like the story elements revolving around Ashrea and Yune. And the Dawn Brigade as a concept. It's just the Dawn Brigade in execution, and the stuff revolving around the Senators (A depressingly large chunk of the game)... Yeah... Although not debating the gameplay. I despite the story for this game, but playing through Hard Classic Birthright after I got back into the game has been a ton of fun.
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Feb 17, 2017 05:29
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Taro Yoko should have written Conquest. He would have fixed alot of issues with it. I'm only half joking with that.
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Feb 17, 2017 22:52
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Hey Hoshido. Sane people have a thing called a weapons check. It's good to make sure people from outside didn't bring in anything dangeous. Like say, a Soul Edge looking demon sword. Does your pacifism barrier not make you be able to weapons check. Did you not pay attention to Soul Edge. Whyyyyyyyy. So Mikoto's death was the moment the story truly took a turn downhill for me, just for how manipulative it seemed (OH NO SUPER PERFECT MOM I JUST MET DIED OH NOOOOO), and how it finally stuffed Nohr's appeal into the grave morality wise. I'll get into it later, but like alot of things, I think the story would have turned out better had Mikoto survived, albiet losing her ability to maintain the barrier.
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Feb 18, 2017 02:53
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BlazeEmblem posted:You're missing an option.   The best option.
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Feb 19, 2017 04:25
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It's kind of amazing how badly Garon damages not just the plot, but also the characterisations of the Nohr siblings, when they have to be loyal to King 
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Feb 19, 2017 13:18
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So I really enjoy Fates' version of reclassing. I was never a fan of the mechanic previously, since i've held the belief that reclassing kinda removes part of the individuality of units, where they have to stick with their classes to fill a part of a larger party with other characters in the same class filling their niche in another way if they don't turn out well. also because of petty aesthetic reasons. But thanks to the more limited selection of alternate classes at first, having a more limited ability to buy Second/Heart Seals initially, them being based on unit personalities and supports (So you have a greater deal of decision making at first on who gets reclassed to what), and having better skill synergy all around (Plus personal skills), it made start to really appreciate it, especially on my current Birthright Hard run.
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Feb 20, 2017 05:25
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A negative for the presentation in Fates is the map screen. I personally find it just too bland. The landscape doesn't pop out in any way, the colours blend together, and the landmarks don't really standout. A positive however, is how they expand on Awakening's presentation. We get way more 3D Models of important locals, more detailed images and CG Artwork shots, and you start to see cutscene battles using the combat models alot more. The shot we saw of Fort Jinya and the screenshot of the infirmary show this. It's really interesting how they used the limited assets they have to convey more information than you think they'd allow, and how they evolved it over the series.
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Feb 21, 2017 04:52
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Looks like Hana has inherited the spirit of Axe Magnet Fir.
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Feb 25, 2017 06:04
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Tae posted:Why would you ever switch him to Spear Fighter. Seal Defense and a certain Promotion Skill, but they're more situational for him since it actually requires enemies to survive one of his attacks.
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Mar 1, 2017 04:06
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It's the biggest tragedy about the Nohr siblings. They're actually more interesting, flawed and sympathetic than the Hoshido siblings... Except having them follow Garon just kneecaps their characters, and makes them look way stupider and more uncaring than they should be.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:56
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Yes Flora. You must do the noble thing and die for betraying your sister and friends, by horrifically burning yourself in front of them, no doubt traumatising them even further, you melodramatic, self righteous, twat. Gotta love how due to the tone, it's the clean, dignified burning away, where the body disappears into the ether. Funnily, when I played this, shortly after I got to an event in The Witcher 3 where you witness a public burning, where they're left as charred husks. Seeing them back to back was... a bit of contrast to say the least.
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Mar 17, 2017 21:50
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Sadly, there's a precedent for nationality seeking magic in this franchise. (Hello Blood Pacts)
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Mar 21, 2017 04:32
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The kids are here, because kids were in Awakening, were hugely popular in conjunction with the marriage system, so Fates needed to have them too. I'm sure that was as far as their thought process went before sitting down, realising they had to justify a reason for them to be there, and collectively went "Shiiiiiit".
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Mar 21, 2017 13:32
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I don't get why the Faceless are such a menace to Nohrian civilians. Aren't they summoned by mages, and are not random monsters? What, does Nohr have a club of rear end in a top hat wizards who summon Faceless Gangs out on the streets for shits and giggles? I can at least see the effects of a land where the sun never shines. Even putting aside ecological effects, not seeing sunlight for long periods of time can really screw people up mentally. Which... Would make Nohr into an entire land of darkness addled lunatics... That might explain alot...
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Apr 5, 2017 08:58
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I'd ask why you didn't show off Camilla's stats... But you have Takumi, so her stats mean nothing. Also this whole map is the most interesting Birthright is really going to get design wise.
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Apr 10, 2017 03:57
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Tae posted:I dunno why Iago has a katana on him, but I don't care at this point. The classic Fire Emblem tradition of how to pass out S-Rank weapons when they aren't tied to the lore as Legendary Weapons: Put them in the hands of randos near endgame.
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Apr 14, 2017 04:04
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As a naive young ruler with the Blood of the Dragon and Silver Hair, it's only fitting that we follow the misadventures of Dany.
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Apr 18, 2017 06:13
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So back when this game was still in pre-release mode, I was really looking forward to Conquest. I wasn't a fan of Awakenings unit swarm map design, and this advertised mode where you would play in maps with limited EXP, tougher puzzle like stages, and a story that's more morally ambiguous, where you try to change your flawed kingdom from within sounded right up my ally! ... At the very least, I can say the gameplay was good, if hard, even by FE Standards. It's just that Conquest has the worst plot I have ever seen in a video game. Period. There are plots objectively worse, but Conquest actively infuriates me every moment I watch the characters talk in the story. And the greatest tragedy of all is that the writing is so bad, it destroys who I find to be the more likeable team of siblings, and in general a more interesting cast of characters. Their good qualities are buried under layers and layers of pure bad.
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Apr 19, 2017 23:54
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mandatory lesbian posted:not having Arthur stay as a Fighter the whole time sounds sacrilegious That's why he can get strong enough to reach his true calling by promoting into a Hero.
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Apr 22, 2017 02:13
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Lord Koth posted:I also think Xander is the worst royal for an incredible number of reasons, whereas Ryoma is just boring, but we'll get to that when we get to that. On my Conquest The big issue with Conquest, is how they pigeonholed the idea of you having to fight the nation you don't pick. They're stuck in a situation where Hoshido has no reason to invade, and Corrin invading him would make him flat out evil. It can work if Hoshido turns out to have a darker, megalomanical side. Which would require massive rewrites for it to work. Garon is, in my eyes, the worst villain in the series. And the big reason why, is that no other villain truly damaged their plots as much as him. He is flat out toxic to this game's plot, just because of how big an influence he is in it, and how bad his cartoonish evil gets. And if you're wondering about the later reveals about him, I honestly think that makes the situation even worse
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Apr 24, 2017 09:02
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I fell in love with this map when I played it. This was the kind of map I loved in the past games. When it's really more a puzzle where you have to figure out how to tackle multiple objectives. My first Conquest run, when I beat the mission, I actually got overwhelmed after the defensive lines broke, and the last turn was everyone bunkering down as I tried to desperately hold out till the end. Second run, I maintained the line, thanks to better knowledge and better focus on certain units.
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Apr 25, 2017 21:05
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And here we go. This is the moment where any hope I had for Conquest's story went up in smoke. This is the moment that immediately plunged Conquest, in my eyes, to be the worst plot in the entire series, and easily one of the worst plots I have ever seen in a game period. This is the moment that made the story so excruciating for me, it actively deterred me from playing. (That and how stressful the maps got) Azura, horribly, despicably condemning thousands upon thousands of her own adopted countrymen, likely her siblings too, to death just to prove it to the Nohr siblings (Read: Xander) and Corrine immediately agreeing to it. Corrine and Azura are bordering on being Tales Villains here (Which came to me initially from how I interpreted the goal of the plan to be to cure Garon, pulling a Mithos Yggdrasil, but no, it's to kill him, which is... Better?) I brought up how I thought Conquest could have been improved if Yoko Taro wrote it before. One factor is that Corrine scarily reminds me of Nowe from Drakengard 2 (The non-Yoko Taro one, for those that do not know) in their sheer callous disregard for the consequences of their actions, while being blindly loyal to the point of bottomless stupidity. A Yoko Taro Conquest would have made Corrine and Azura realise how bad an idea their plan was, as it all descends into a road of unintended murder and insanity. Worth noting, there was one other major pitfall in this route that drowned it deeper in it's own poo poo, but it takes until the end to truly realise it.
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May 6, 2017 07:05
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Hey, just for a reminder, this is Conquest Hard, right? Because Jesus, I don't remember Shura having a skill loadout that nasty on my run.
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May 8, 2017 01:08
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Makes perfect sense. Given some of the Lunatic skills i've heard about, that difficulty on Conquest sounds like unending torture. Inevitable End
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May 8, 2017 01:33
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Welcome to Ninja Hell. One of the most complex, difficult, and time consuming maps in the game. Also, it always gets me how you still wind up fighting the same boss in Birthright, instead of teaming up for him as a route change. Instead, the same drat plot is recycled again. This will not be the last time they recycle plot points and scenes in the other routes
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May 9, 2017 01:25
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Space Bat posted:I disagree, even the worst Nohrian noble is better than the best Hoshidan noble in my opinion. Can you even tell me what Ryouma is like? Or Hinoka? Other than "lobster" and, uh, "red head" I really can't. Sakura is just "innocent girl who wants to help people." The only Hoshidan with anything resembling a personality is Takumi, who's entire shtick is being a massive prick with an inferiority complex. It's a weird situation, because while the grand majority of the Hoshido nobles feel bland, Xander feels like the other extreme. He's written in such a way that he feels like a villain, and indeed, that's what he is on Birthright. Between his stubbornness, his attitude towards executing his sibling for treason, his devotion to Garon his view on justice, ect. But because of the two sides, they want you to see him as a flawed hero. And that's where he falls apart, because he's a thoroughly awful person in alot of ways. It depends on if you tolerate emptiness over frustration more to which royal is the worst. A nothing personality vs an awful personality.
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May 11, 2017 23:52
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My method of doing this mission was to get Dark Knight Odin (Having had a good string of levels) equipped with his Forged Mjolnir Tome (ThunderdomeX, which I felt was the most fitting for him) pair with Camilla, and bounce from Stoneborn to Stoneborn, eliminating them as Corrin and Xander bounced between Dragon Veins to keep the rest knocked down as the team hauled rear end. Also man, after Echoes, seeing that many stat growths on level ups feels alien to me.
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May 27, 2017 06:10
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Jun 2, 2017 02:42
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Tae posted:
This line made me legitimately mad the first time I saw it. Okay, I feel sorry for Hoshido on this route because of all the misery that happens to them caused by Corrine, but this is feels like the most spineless middle ground possible. They have people die as a consequence due to Corrine's descision to invade with Garon... But it's just faceless, random mooks that don't mean anything, while the named characters survive. It comes off as this annoying non committal to have Corrine feel bad... But not have anyone important die. Also, Garon let the mooks get murdered under his watch, but not the actually important people... I... gently caress Conquest.
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Jun 3, 2017 13:38
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I'm not surprised. Poor thing. For someone so young to witness the massacre of all those soldiers... We're lucky we were able to take Sakura, Yukimura, and the retainers as hostages. If Iago and Hans weren't frightened of Xander, they would be dead right now.
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Conquest is the Freedom Planet of Fire Emblem. Great game as long as you play the mode with all the story stuff removed.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:22
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Xander's little spiel there was when I went from seeing him as just a callous idiot with some good moments, to outright despising him. Not only is he trying to paint a grey morality situation, in the most unfitting story for it possible, but his attitude, this real sense of "Oh well, that's life if it's not happening to me or my family" made my skin crawl. But it did that because of the context. See, this would be fine if Xander was a villain, and this was his warped view of the world. Which, hey, he is like this on Birthright. But they made him a hero in Conquest, and didn't change it. This moment, and how Corrine reacts to his words, tells us that this is Xander's wisdom. His righteous perspective that we're supposed to be inspired by, when it's short sighted and morally bankrupt. And guess what? He barely learns from it, because whoops. Dad's a slime monster. No moral conflict! And lets not forget how on Birthright he gets Elise killed, and decides to suicide himself fighting Corrine, rather than respect her last wishes, and stand down. That, combined with his speech, makes me wish Corrin shoved Yato through the shithead's chest a few more times to make him shut up faster.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:55
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I'd say that the game fumbles the whole point of Garon being too strong to kill by a) barely acknowledging it (His stats are high, but honestly not that threatening. Hell, Xander in Birthright gets more hype for his power than Garon) and b) His attitude is so laughable, it's hard to take him seriously. The way he's cackling and ranting like a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain sucks away his menace.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:41
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I had Bow Knight Serena, and the Divine Ruler Mozu (A stat blessed Mozu who I grew so fond of, I put Point Blank on her.) to help me through the Pegasus Swarm.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:39
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The Story of the Lunatic Map is that Ryoma instantly bisected Corrin with a crit, ala The Last Blade. Meanwhile, the entire Nohrian force puked their organs out after they took a Shuriken each, or got crippling limb cramps that rendered them helpless. Trapped inside, Garon, Iago and Hans pondered why the Inevitable End technology wasn't more researched in Nohr, before Ryoma came for them. In the timeline where the war wasn't brutally ended at this map, aka Classic Normal... My Corrin was doing well. drat well. Capped Strength, Speed, Skill, Defense, good HP, the works. So I knew about this chapter, and was more than ready for it. She did about 12 Damage to Ryoma per turn. About 70 Hit. On a floor filled with heal tiles. Ryoma does not gently caress around. Oh, and there's the chests, one of which has something that helped ALOT next chapter. Emperordaein fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 03:39
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Jun 8, 2017 21:21
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ungulateman posted:imagine if Conquest had legitimately just been Spec Ops: Fire Emblem edition tho Conquest seems like has all the framework for it. The problem is, they insist that Corrine, Azura, and Xander are these gosh darn swell guys who have to do mean poopy things to bring peace. It's not even that hard. Just show a few chapters in that Corrine and Azura's plan was horribly concieved. Because... Y'know, it was partially planned by a sheltered dingus, and by someone who would have only cared about showing Garon as a slime monster. As they cause more atrocities thanks to their actions, Corrine's confidence truly erodes over time, getting less and less confident in the plan, and questioning Azura more and more, before just snapping at her, calling her a callous idiot who didn't think a single thing through (Deflecting her blame in the process due to denial) and Azura tearfully responding that she really thought it would be easier. Of course, by that point, it's too late and the chair plan is all that's left. The siblings too. Elise's "Yay, it'll be a vacation!" attitude falls to pieces when she's forced to help in these massacres, and gets yelled at by Garon or others when she even tries to cure the wounded. She's left heartbroken and tearful after every encounter, coping less and less. Camilla plays up the big sister act more and more, as well as the crazy Yandere stuff to cope. Leo... Dude really wants to help people, and he's watching someone he was trying to raise with compassion seemingly become the same kind of conquerer as his dad. He gets more and more critical of Corrin. Xander too, who would be the same as in the main game. By the end, he's disgusted by them, and would outright call out Xander and Corrine on their bullshit, calling them selfish cowards who wouldn't stop to save a civilian from being murdered if they weren't related to them. Hell, it would get to the point where Xander gets his "There is no justice" philosophy thrown back in his face by one of his siblings, as they call it his petty excuse for all the horrible things he's doing, and that the truth is that his honour crap is bullshit. Again, this is pure fanfic/wish fulfillment. But jaysus do I want it after sitting through this garbage! At least Corrine, Azura and Xander, loving idiots that they are would suffer consequences! Which brings me to Conquest's other biggest issue. Now, I realised this earlier, but I think it's this chapter where it truly sets in. The Nohrian siblings have not changed. None of them. Not one has gotten character development until Iago and Hans tried to kill Corrine right in front of their faces. Throughout this entire sorrid campaign, not a single one has changed, grown, doubted themselves, lost ideals or ANYTHING, up until they get a chance to rip Iago's head off and melt off Hans' flesh because daddy isn't watching (Despite being in the other room and could easily hear this poo poo). Why? Because if they had development, that would get in the way of the plot where they need to see daddy is a sludge monster, rather than just a human monster. So their big changes of heart can't happen until then. poo poo, even the dynamic with Garon and Iago doesn't change! Garon doesn't seem to accept Corrine as a conquerer (OOPS HE'S A SLIME MONSTER, SO HE CAN'T SHOW ANY AFFECTION OR HUMAN MOMENTS TO GIVE HIM DEPTH), and Iago still hatches plans of the week to kill her, like he's loving Gargamel! Okay yes, on Birthright, the Hoshidan siblings were basically static except for Takumi, whose development wasn't too amazing, but it was there. But they were barely flawed characters with less interesting personalities. Here? All the Nohrian siblings, as base concepts, are well defined, are flawed people, have an immediate connection and history with the protagonist, and are in a story that is (SUPPOSED) to be more complex and morally grey than Birthright, the standard heroes save the day plot. This was a story, that was the perfect chance, for these characters to develop, and we get NONE of it. The supports? Aren't part of the main story, or the same writing team, so they contribute nothing! TL;DR: Conquest's plot is a dumpster filled with manure with a chemical fire inside.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:24
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