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Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

ChazTurbo posted:

Here's a hot take. MMOs are a boring genre for boring people.

Edit:Also looter shooters

I can’t stand either. I remember trying the first Borderlands and was trying to take in the setting and mechanics and some guy from this forum kept screaming at me because I wasn’t min-maxing correctly or something.

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Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

QuarkJets posted:

I think good gameplay is highly valued but the people who overvalue good stories are just loud and annoy about it. There are a lot of critically-acclaimed fan-beloved games that have practically no story

Same with crafting systems, the loudest idiots always want a loving crafting system in every single game no matter how stupid it would be but I think most people understand that sometimes what a game really does not need is a pointless crafting system

Crafting systems becoming massively popular were the point where video games and I began to part ways and I wish they came around a few years earlier so I could have made a break then.

There is nothing fun about exploring just to find materials to make something and the low level anxiety that you might have missed the opportunity to get the pommel gem of the sword of +3 soul swallowing or whatever. Bullshit. Just put cool swords into the world.

I realise they have crafting/upgrading elements, but I’ll basically only really keep an eye on about one game a year now and it’s usually a From game. Wider trends in game design seem to be an anathema to my tastes, but frustratingly some of the best games I’ve ever played have released in the past decade.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Jerry Cotton posted:

I can't get mad at bad Youtubers (unless they're Nazis or something) because if I don't watch them, its like they don't exist to me. If someone wants to give money to a dude who ate Steam-Powered Giraffe and gained all their style and says stupid things about computer video games, that's OK by me.

With his general look, I was convinced he had to be some kind of sketch alt-right dude because no fat dudes who dress like 2002 era Green Day have ever been worthwhile people but he’s actually okay and easy to ignore and I genuinely enjoyed his videos on Boglins. I won’t bother him if he doesn’t bother me.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
I typically find CoD (and Ghost Recon or ArmA or Battlefield or whatever) really off-putting because recreating war is a really creepy pastime to me and with the exception of maybe Spec Ops: The Line, I’m not aware of many that question how gross they are. I had this revelation while playing some Middle East scenario in an earlier CoD game and never went back to them. Edit: I don’t judge people or think less of people for enjoying them, but I also can’t really enjoy ‘realistic’ war scenarios in games.

I really like the weird, histrionic alternative universe thing that Ace Combat has though and those games are really fun and I’m probably a weird hypocrite.

Disco Pope fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 12, 2020

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Dr.D-O posted:

The criticism that Red Dead Redemption 2 is too slow and that everything is over-animated is based on player's unfounded expectations and their unwillingness to engage with the game in the way that Rockstar intended. It's an interactive western, not Westworld. Westerns tend to be slow and deliberate with brief bursts of action/violence. RDR2 does this extremely well. It is probably the best piece of western media to come out in the past decade.

I agree with a lot of this, but games aren’t movies and I spent a lot of that game feeling like I was moving an actor from mark to mark so scenes could happen. The story was engaging but I felt like I was watching it, not playing it.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Panzeh posted:

People get a bit mad when i suggest that a lot of the writing in act 3 was rushed and felt perfunctory as a result. You just end up being tugged by the nose from setpiece to setpiece at that point.

I liked that game a lot (it is showing its age now, though), but yeah the last several hours are just kind of an exhausting litany of set-pieces. The DLCs were industry best though.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

StabMasterArson posted:

The Switch is an absolutely dire system outside of playing that-1-game-you-want. Also the new Doom game looks poo poo. There's my twofer

Doom 2016 really surprised me by how good it was, but yeah, Doom Eternal looks like a double-dip too far and likely to overcomplicate what was a really satisfying, simple gameplay loop.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Snow Cone Capone posted:

I haven't seen much, but it seems like more of the same for the most part? The grappling chain thing looks fun, what else is in there overcomplicating things?

I think it’s maybe just the chain that’s causing me apprehension, the verticality doesn’t feel very ‘Doom’.

I hope I’m wrong because I want it to be a good game, but I’ve been around the block enough to play my share of overstuffed sequels that lose the charm.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

food court bailiff posted:

i really biffed the fight against the first licker in REmake 2 and burned most of my pistol ammo on it, should I go grab the grenade launcher and try it again with flare rounds or just keep pushing through

I’d say keep going. The game is tuned to keep you freaking about ammo for the most part so you should probably recover.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

ghostwritingduck posted:

Sonic Mania is the best 2D Sonic has ever been. It’s still not very good. I grew up with Sonic on the Genesis and thought it was pretty good because I didn’t own a SNES.

Yeah, my brother got a SNES late in its lifecycle (I'd moved on from Genesis to PS1) and Mega Man X, Mario World 1&2, Super Metroid and Super Castlevania 4 mopped the floor with Megadrive platformers. Sonic 2 and Mania are OK.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

signalnoise posted:

Witcher needs corrected

DENTAL PLAN!

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

is pepsi ok posted:

Souls fans were way more obnoxious when Dark Souls was first blowing up than they are now.

"You gotta try out this new game! You see the key is to very slowly walk around the map with your shield up in case something attacks you. Then you do this until you've memorized the map. Then you die to the boss until you memorize their patterns. Then you get to win!"

"Uh that sounds kinda tedious."

"Omg get a load of this pleb, bet you just want to run around hitting the win button. Well this game takes a little thing called skill 😏"

I love Dark Souls. Probably some of the best video games I've ever played to the extent I just don't enjoy many other games now, but I didn't play them until late 2016 because the community had me convinced that they were some high skill, twitch reflex bullshit when all they really demand from the player is that they pay attention. Souls fans almost made it so I never played Dark Souls.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

signalnoise posted:

The difficulty of dark souls is greatly inflated by not using the tools the game gives you and thinking it's some special thing that you need to beat at the lowest level you can and all that poo poo. I thought it was really hard and totally bought into the perception of it being really oppressive and tense when it came out, and when I revisited it caring much much less it was relatively easy. In any other rpg if there was an encounter I couldn't get done, I'd grind up some levels, so that's what I did the second time around and just by treating it like a dumb video game with grinding and leveling up and poo poo, and letting my lost xp go when it was gonna be a hassle to get it back, the game got to be pretty simple. In my opinion the difficulty of dark souls is largely self-imposed.

Absolutely, and I want to make it clear I'm not doing some kind of flex here; any player who's smart enough not to try the same thing repeatedly, not be too precious about completionism on a single playthrough and pay attention to feedback will do absolutely fine.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
Red Dead Redemption 2 was decent but I'll never ever play it again because I never felt like an active participant, I felt like I was moving an actor on to his marks so scenes could happen .

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
The reason crafting sucks is because ideally when you drop down, I don't know, into a hidden dwarven cave or post-apocalyptic elevator shaft into a lift suspended by a wire, you want to find a cool unique axe or shotgun or something, not another pack of machine washers and elastic bands (24).

I think people romanticize older games though, because while in the old days you might find that axe or gun, it would most likely be one that's findable in at least a dozen other places.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Caesar Saladin posted:

if you really wanna save time, just don't play the video game, it is inherently timewasting

I think video games that people play to relax should feature even MORE busy work, personally. Okay, your character needs to eat, but I think they should also have to wash, dry and store the dishes they use before any combat ot exploration can take place.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

poverty goat posted:

I'm glad that our inclusive hobby includes super easy settings now for dads and small children and m,aybe like busy business executives who don't have the time or skill to play them properly

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I like to play inappropriate games with steering wheels or plastic guitars to show people on YouTube on random but skilled and elite I am.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

PinheadSlim posted:

I've heard old men refer to them as "boards" and it's always in the context of old games. It probably has something to do with arcade machines, idk lol

I'm not sure, it maybe stems from how a lot of old games were single screen? Levels is a weird term too to be honest.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
My partner thinks it's hilarious that I call the things you hold to play the games 'joypads' and it makes me pretty mad tbqh

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

PinheadSlim posted:

To be honest I judge people a little bit whenever they call a movie anything other than a movie.

"That was a great film"
"It was that one Stallone picture, I can't remember the name"
"Michael Bay flicks are good fun"

It sounds like something only a cartoonish golden era producer would say, and I don't know how people don't feel silly when they use those words.

Maybe not "film" as much as the other ones, but still

Film/movie is a British/American English difference too, kind of like computer games/video games used to be, although the term 'computer game' seems to be dead now.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
Mechanics: the people fixing your car

Gameplay: how good it is to watch oily working class men do things with their hands for pay

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Hector Delgado posted:

Dante's Inferno was a better God of War game than GoW (2018).

It was very derivative of God of War, but it kind of owned.

I wasnt that impressed by GoW 2018, in fact, heres my unpopular opinion:

Fatherhood isn't a particularly interesting theme and it's an embarrassing one for a videogame that only highlights the mediums relative immaturity as story-telling.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

You can really, really tell when the generation of game designers suddenly all hit their mid-life crisis and wishes their kids gave a poo poo about them.

That's exactly it, but it has this tang of arrested development and toxic ideas about gender roles. God of War is what someone who grew up playing God of War would find adult, as they deal with the frustrations of having a toddler who keeps pawing at their FunkoPops and snake bite piercings.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Extra Large Marge posted:

It's especially funny since the original God of War games were all about kicking your Dad's rear end.

The next God of War is going to be about really getting into The Eagles and getting where the old man was coming from.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Orange Crush Rush posted:

To me Last of Us was nothing special at all, but God of War ended up being a lot of fun so yeah I can’t poo poo talk or too much, even though you don’t have a jump button anymore.

Both are fun games, but the cliche of walking into a temple or whatever and having a kid be like "gee whiz!" while the player character goes "hhhhrgh!" makes me strain my eyeballs through rolling

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

The Moon Monster posted:

I guess this is the comforting narrative VR diehards have decided on.

Yeah, have a missed an interesting glorified tech demo I should have played by now or something, VR fans?

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

well why not posted:

the genius of kojima is that he’s got a distinctive writing style in a medium that filters out creative voices as soon as the project has a budget.

Name a game with a real publisher that has a voice as clear as Kojima’s. everyone else plays it safe. Even if you hate it it’s a good thing there is auteurs in the industry. Even better it’s a prophetic anti war action movie nerd.

The closest I can think of are maybe Suda 51, Miyazaki and the Nier guy, but even they dont have as strong a authorial voice as Kojima.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
I'm struggling to think of any video games that transcend the quality of good genre fiction or movies as opposed to literature or cinema.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with good genre works, and I'll spend as many hours looking up Dark Souls lore as the next guy, but when I think of recent games where the story has impressed like Horizon: Zero Dawn, I'm also aware that that would be a middling to good sci-fi story in Dangerous Visions or something.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
I loved F-Zero GX. The story mode was really hard, but the rest of the game is a really fun, fast feeling Arcade racer.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
The F-Zero chat made me think that modern racing games are the loving pits, and the genre has died since Sega and Namco were in some kind of power-drifting cold war and was only kept on life support by Burnout. I cant think of any good ones since Need For Speed: Most Wanted that dont lean into super dull sim territory or shallow retro pandering. Mascot racers are probably the closest thing, and I'd check out that new Sonic one if I didnt have to tolerate Sonic and his stupid idiot friends.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Okay, that looks kinda fun!

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Caesar Saladin posted:

Yeah Shakespeare is telling you the story in a very specific order that he chose where he wants you to know the ending first. To use that as an example that all stories should tell you the ending first is really missing the point. its not like he decided that randomly, he did it for a specific effect where you're like "How are these kids gonna get themselves into this mess?"

To say that a story is just a list of events that you can tell in any order and it doesn't matter is completely dumb.

Yeah, I don't think there's any single answer to this. Most literature will survive spoilers because the value is in the telling, but taking the joy away from twists from yourself or others isn't great, especially if you're dealing with genre fiction where that 'Jack in the Box' poo poo is part of the telling.

People who are babies and cover their eyes and ears at film trailers for poo poo like Star Wars are poo poo gaga babies.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

ishikabibble posted:

The new middle is Gran Turismo and Forza, 'simcades'. The middle you're talking about never died out, it just doesn't have an audience anymore. The Crew has an in-development sequel, Need for Speed has had a release every two or so years for the last decade, you have various smaller titles like Wreckfest, etc. They just don't sell huge numbers.

Hardware and game budgets have gotten to the point where you can have realistic physics, but have enough accessibility options to make them playable by someone who isn't very experience in racing games. Stuff like auto-braking, guide lines, rewind, etc. So there's not really much a point to have a game with basic physics where you can slide around a pretend Ferrari with ease, when you can learn how to slide around a pretend Ferrari in something much more realistic and feel more engrossed and immersed in the experience, even if the game is holding your hand the whole way through.

If someone released a modern game that let you throw cars that look like Hot Wheels sideways around tropical islands that inexplicably also look like downtown Tokyo, plenty of people would be interested and while it probably wouldn't support AAA releases anymore, I dont see why indie developers couldnt do love letters to the period that pretty much ran Ridge Racer to Burnout Revenge. I'd kill for it personally; I dont know what half the breeds or car are, but I sure like powersliding.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!
But guyyyyys I dont have an XBox I have a PS4! Give me an answer I'll like guyyyyys!

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Chomp8645 posted:

I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim in squence, all within the last six months. Morrowind and Oblivion are good games. Skyrim is not. At least for me.

imo the biggest problem just that it basically just does the barest possible minimum in terms of mechanics to even qualify as an RPG. The environments and the world is fine, even if a lot of the quest writing is mediocre/bad. But the character building loving sucks. What do you even do with your character in Skyrim compared to other titles? Technically you gain levels and make a skill number bigger, and the buck stops there.


Attributes? Gone.
Racial differences? Technically they exist, but they're whittled down to trifles.
Skill checks? Nope.
Conversation system? Nah.
Character development? Well that's perks, and mostly they just consist of "make the skill actually do what it's supposed to do".

The end result is every character feels like any other. There is no character building at all. The attribute multiplier and poo poo like that in Morrowind/Oblivion may have not have been very good, but hell at least it kept me thinking about my character. Instead of improving that aspect, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. And the perks are stupid and pointless. Most of your perks are things like "let me smith things that aren't iron", or "let my potions not totally suck", or "make my sword actually hurt something". It's boring, it's pointless, and it adds nothing. Putting a perk point into "sword do 20% more damage" is mostly functional the same as increasing strength in the old games. Except, in those titles getting + strength benefits all melee weapons, not just one type, and had other implications for your character. In Skyrim it's more narrow and discourages you from playing around. A Morrowind/Oblivion character who was pumping strength/agility could switch to a different weapon type and still do decently well, even with the lower skill. In Skyrim switching weapon types means you loving blow at it because regardless of your skill, if you don't have perk points spent in MOAR DMG, your weapon does poo poo.

Basically, there is no character development of any significance at all in Skyrim and I hate it. The combat in an Elder Scrolls game is not good enough to stand alone as the reason to play. But that's all you can do in Skyrim. Wander around a pretty world with admittedly good atmosphere, with nothing to do but engage in antiquated, two dimensional combat for no reason.

I'm gonna stop short of saying it's objectively a bad game. Because honestly if you just want to roam a pretty world and fart around doing some fantasy things, and you don't typically enjoy character building or "gamey" mechanics, well you'll probably enjoy it. It's got good presentation and a large world with lots of things to see. But if you care at all about interesting mechanics in your games, there is just nothing here. It blows.

I played it on XBox 360 and I think I liked it for what it was as a game I played at a time I couldnt invest much time or effort into videogames and couldnt play online as I was moving house, but you really just made it click for me why EVERY build becomes a stealth archer surprisingly quickly.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

QuarkJets posted:

"Dark Souls isn't a game, it's an experience and allow someone to decrease the difficulty would detract from that experience" is dumb bullshit emblematic of the cancer infecting all Dark Souls fandom. I loved those games but my experience wouldn't have been worsened by someone being able to select an Easy mode that bulks up your health or whatever. The only players who would have been negatively impacted are the lovely dudebros who unironically write phrases like "git gud" and they don't get a loving vote because they're not even really human.

I don't really care if they have an easy mode or not, but it'd be like playing X-Com without Iron Man or whatever; so low stakes that it'd barely be a game at all.

Dark Souls stength, in addition to atmosphere, is it does a structured feeling of mastery really, really well. It's the mastery that people like, not the difficulty. I dont think they're even exceptionally difficult if you pay attention, something not many games ask of the player.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

QuarkJets posted:

I agree with everything you're saying but I also think it's fine if someone else wants to play X-Com on Easy difficulty with iron man turned off, or that someone would want to play Dark Souls with twice as much health or whatever. I wouldn't enjoy that but someone else might, and it's weird that the existence of such an option can make some people angry. They're like kids on a playground telling other kids that they're having fun in the wrong way

For the record, I totally agree. Hell, if someone wants buy a video game and use it as a coaster or frisbee that's none of my business.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

punk rebel ecks posted:

Hot take: the original Sonic the Hedgehog game is the only "great" game of the the original trilogy.

I'd agree and add because it's short. Sonic 2 makes me deeply depressed around Hill Top/Oil Ocean Zone whenever I try to replay it.

Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

3D Megadoodoo posted:

Dark Souls could be a decent game if it had guns.

Bloodborne is really good, yeah.

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Disco Pope
Dec 6, 2004

Top Class!

Milo and POTUS posted:

Same but Konami. Put me in charge, konami. I'll deliver, I promise

Seeing Konami now is like seeing a childhood friend getting into crack or finance.

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