Healthcare Reform Megathread: Can I sell my organs to pay this hospital bill?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Healthcare Reform Megathread: Can I sell my organs to pay this hospital bill?

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BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

A new top-of-the-line iPhone costs about $800. That's about half of one month of premiums for my family's health insurance.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2017 15:54

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 00:28

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

KillHour posted:

Anecdotally, if this goes through, I'm cancelling my health insurance as soon as open enrollment comes up. Hope the insurance companies love losing all their healthy customers!

Then when you get hit by a car we all get to pay for your bills in the ER, but since you won't be eligible for physical therapy or corrective surgeries, we also get to pay so that your crippled rear end doesn't die of starvation! All win!

# ¿ Mar 7, 2017 16:58

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Noctone posted:

Almost (almost) makes me miss Shrub and Boehner. At least they were competently evil. Better the devil you know than a pack of rabid dogs.

Aside from loving up a war and destabilizing the entire Middle East.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 00:38

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Craptacular! posted:

I think they really don't know what the hell they're in for when they bring job lock back to the economy and entrepreneurship tanks (all these Uber drivers etc over the past five years happened because health care was less connected to being a full time employee). But you can't go back to someone working at a big huge national hardware store, working around hammers and nails and saw blades all day, and not giving them insurance.

They can, and what's more, they can make them beg for it.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 20:26

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

evilweasel posted:

They can talk about it, but what's making Republicans real nervous (and is part of the reason for the GET THIS DONE BEFORE ANYONE CAN OBJECT) is that a lot of those people are their constituents, and will put 2 and 2 together when they actually lose their health insurance instead of just those other people losing theirs.

I'll be impressed if a significant number understands this because they mostly seem so dumb they cheer the Republicans on while they gently caress their own families over. They seem to have a little bit of a learning difficulty in terms of putting two and two together. A few of them might produce some satisfying Trumpregrets but the larger part of them will blame immigrants/Democrats/cruel fate.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 20:39

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

evilweasel posted:

you just pay your bills in chickens

If only student loans for medical degrees could be paid in chickens.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2017 20:22

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

evilweasel posted:

The point of "selling across state lines" is to effectively ban states from regulating insurers. The goal is for a single state to win a race to the bottom where they don't regulate insurance at all (think Delaware for corporations, South Dakota for credit cards) and the companies all move there. Then they're based in that state and subject to that state's laws, and much less subject to each individual state's laws.

The Republicans are all for State's rights when States want to do something hateful. Not so much when they wish to regulate their own affairs.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 11:38

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Hollismason posted:

Republicans basically want black people and the poors to pick cotton in order to get healthcare.

No, just the first part.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 20:21

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Zikan posted:

You can't just repeal the individual mandate and call it a day because you risk causing a death spiral in the health insurance markets if people drop coverage and only pick it up when they become sick en mass.

You are saying this like the Republicans would consider it a bad thing.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 15:06

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

HappyHippo posted:

It hurts business interests so of course they do.

I don't think the Obamacare plans are particularly profitable to health insurance companies, judging by how many of them have pulled out, so they probably see it as a good thing to lose business they aren't making money on.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 16:01

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

evilweasel posted:

Pretty much every economist of every political pursuasion views our employer-supplied health care as a dumb system but you can't really change it because nobody's interested in losing their employer plan for something unknown.

Because it's a bit of a blind leap. If they lose their employer plan for Medicare-for-all under the next Democratic president, there's a good chance the Republican after that will drop them for "efficiency" and then they will be left with nothing.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2017 14:17

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Ytlaya posted:

I checked in some tax document I received and I really think that many employees not realizing how much this stuff actually costs (as asdf mentioned) is a big barrier to discussions on the topic. I pay something between 100-200 a month, but my employer pays like 700-800 dollars or something IIRC. The problem is that people see the fact that universal healthcare would increase their taxes and either compare that against how much they're personally paying now or, even worse, fail to even consider the fact that their existing health insurance expenses would disappear under a universal system paid for by taxes.

I'm not sure they are entirely wrong. If UHC got passed, I can't see employers saying "Since we don't need to pay for your healthcare any more, here's a $1,000 a month pay rise."

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:40

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Twerk from Home posted:

I think the idea is that all of the money spent on current insurance policies could fund UHC, and just outright cover everyone with less complexity than the current system. So instead of a pay raise or higher taxes, the same money that's already being spent now would be spent elsewhere.

Lets say that currently you pay $200 a month towards your work healthcare and your employer adds $1,000 to that. UHC gets introduced, funded by a tax that works out as $500 a month for you. So you stop paying $200 and now must pay $500. Your employer stops paying $1000 but doesn't give you anything in compensation. Yes, that's stupid. But why wouldn't it happen?

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 20:57

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

LeeMajors posted:

Ok?

Uncoupling health insurance from employment allows people to innovate or change jobs without supreme anxiety. It allows people to open businesses without being crippled with employer health costs, or risk bankruptcy themselves if they can't afford their own insurance. It allows people mobility and releases us all from the low-level dread of the reality that we are an accident away from destitution.

There is no down side to UHC. It is cheaper than our current system. It increases access. It improves outcomes. It minimizes human suffering and economic anxiety.

Basically all things the GOP wants to avoid because they want us to be slaves to our employers and to insurers.

Hey, I support it 100%. I'm just pointing out why employed people who aren't too bright might not like the idea of it.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 21:00

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Ytlaya posted:

Yeah, but there's the option of increasing taxes on businesses for roughly the amount they would otherwise pay on health insurance (though in reality you'd probably be able to get away with taxing them for less than that, since a universal system would probably lower per capita costs).

You know how scumbucket fast food companies added an "Obamacare surcharge" to food prices because they were forced to give their employees health insurance? Here's how it would go for an employee of RepublicanOwnedCorp:

"Thanks for attending this meeting. Now, I'm sure you've heard a lot about Universal Healthcare. If you take a look at your paychecks next month you will see that you no longer have to pay the $200 for healthcare that was the cost of the company plan. Now, nothing in this life is free, despite what Democrats might tell you. UHC is paid for by taxes. So you will see a new $500 UHC tax subtracted from your paycheck. In effect, you are paying $300 to subsidize the poor and indigent. Maybe this makes you feel good. If not, please call your representative. His number is on the leaflets that Janine will be passing round after the meeting."

# ¿ Mar 20, 2017 21:11

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Confounding Factor posted:

The problem with adopting that diet in America is you need to also adopt their culture ie it's impossible.

Then the UK is doing pretty well with a national diet nearly as bad as the USA.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 00:33

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Craig K posted:

My GOD my representative accidentally voting correctly for a bill for a change!

Try phoning him and telling him how happy you are about that. It seems to have an effect.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2017 16:46

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Craig K posted:

he's getting Lots of Calls so i got the voice mail and left a message.

Yeah, I never heard of anyone actually getting through. But filling up voicemail boxes seems to get registered somehow.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2017 17:06

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Azhais posted:

Yeah, remember this is the guy quoted as saying that he's been dreaming of depriving poor people of insurance since college

And college Republicans whine that the hot, liberal girls won't sleep with them.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 15:14

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

EugeneJ posted:

trying to bury the vote late Friday so it misses the media cycle

It won't pass and they know it

Poor bastard journalists work weekends these days.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 18:24

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Rhesus Pieces posted:

lol yeah that's coming across loud and clear. From repealing title 1 to trying for a-la-carte coverage, a lot of this seems to be based around making sure men don't have to pay for birth control or mammograms.

Or more importantly, pregnancy.

Future men will not thank them for their disabilities caused by premature birth due to lack of prenatal care, but I'm sure Republicans will convince them it was the feminists' fault somehow.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 20:29

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Aren't truckers often self-employed middle-aged people? Do they like healthcare at all?

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 21:35

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

axeil posted:

So this is some fun data

https://twitter.com/AJentleson/status/845281073395388417

No wonder everyone's jumping ship on this thing.

I'm sure all their voters will have forgotten it in 4 years time when the Republican party propaganda machine has again made them really angry about how immigrants are taking their jobs and blowing things up.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:09

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

HappyHippo posted:

Call him and tell the bill doesn't go far enough and he should vote for nothing less than full repeal.

This sounds like a good plan, roughly comparable to "Democrats should register as Republicans in the primary and vote for Donald Trump as candidate, hur, hur."

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:18

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

hobbesmaster posted:

All you have to do is phone the office and say you're against the bill and it'll go down as a tally mark in the "no calls" column. No need to say why. Now, if you're speaking against saying "no" as a general principle then that's different...

I suspect that "No, because it kicks too many people off healthcare" and "No, because it isn't a full repeal" get noted down differently in most offices. This is not going to be the final word, even if this plan fails. There will be a new one next month or next year. If Brat thinks his voters are all with him on "Full repeal" then he will act less cautiously than if he gets the impression there's a lot of people who are going to be rioting outside his office if it gets completely repealed.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:27

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

evilweasel posted:

There aren't the votes for full repeal without replace. We know that because that was the original plan and they were forced to abandon it. This monstrosity is what they cobbled together when it was clear repeal and don't replace had nowhere near the votes needed.

Plan B may well be repeal without replace, hammered through somehow, if it seems popular.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:32

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

hobbesmaster posted:

Repeal drops a similar number of people off their health insurance but has no tax credits to go with it. For every HFC member they gain they'll lose 2 "moderates"

I suspect that these "moderate Republicans", fewer in number, can be browbeaten/threatened/bribed more easily than the maniacs of the Freedom Caucus.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:36

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

hobbesmaster posted:

The moderates are in gerrymandered R+2 seats, they'll lose their general elections if they go along with it.

Republican voters have the memories of mayflies. I'm not sure they can remember this issue in 4 years time, especially since the Republican propaganda machine will be stepping up the hate and making people forget all other issues apart from whatever minority ethnicity's existence most concerns them.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:43

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Confounding Factor posted:

Some commentator I think it was on RT (lol no pun intended) who said it's not just 24 million, if the CBO estimates are right, that would lose insurance but ALL of us will be impacted by it because those that are uninsured are going to be asking others for financial help to pay medical bills and prescriptions.

Not rich people, though. All their relatives are at least decently off. However, the richest guy in a poor family is going to be *drowning* in relatives begging for auntie's medicine money or a donation for little cousin's orthopedic surgery.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 16:49

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

1stGear posted:

Shockingly, Trump is bad at any deal making that isn't "Throw money and hookers at fat businessman till he agrees."

Has he tried throwing money and hookers at awkward congressmen?

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 18:37

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Rhesus Pieces posted:

And if they don't keep the hope of repealing Obamacare alive they can't very well fundraise off of it, can they?

They can switch to banning abortion. Then sweat as RBG dies and they have enough justices to do so but would have to raise taxes to pay for all the new orphanages and foster homes required.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 19:50

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

my bony fealty posted:

I've thought for years that the GOP would never actually repeal Roe because then they couldn't fundraise off it anymore I'm thrilled, just thrilled that I get to see now if that is true or not

I'm guessing you are not a straight woman aged 18-45.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 20:03

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Sloober posted:

GOP has had a bogeyman to raise or make people fear about for the entirety of this last decade, they're not giving up their cash cows. What are they going to run off of if abortion is banned and the PPACA is gone?

Literally i have no idea what they could use? At some point when we hit 0% taxes they won't be able to use that either. Where would they go? Maybe go full religious war with anyone non-denominational or w/e

WW3 in the Middle East. Protecting your guns against the evil Democrats. They'll think of something.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2017 20:04

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Lockback posted:

Did you ever try to buy health insurance pre-ACA? It was SUPER lovely. Any plan that was decent wasn't able to tell you what actual plan you qualified for upfront, you sometimes had to go through a physical, and there might be some weird restriction or thing not covered that you didn't know about because you didn't read all 600 pages. The ACA covering pre-existing conditions simpified everything in one swoop, the "Bronze, Silver, Gold" ratings meant it was a lot harder to just outright lie to you, and the bare minimum requirements for all plans also made life much easier.

Yeah. My husband and I are self-employed. Before ACA there was precisely one insurance provider who would insure a person for less than a ridiculous amount. Now we have some choice, and for the most part, it's better.

Unfortunately, for those who were not subsidized, such as us, the prices for plans go up crazy amounts per year. Within 5 years it's going to be more than our mortgage unless something is done. And I doubt if the Republicans give a poo poo.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 18:47

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

hobbesmaster posted:

Those prices are going up for employers too, employees may or may not be seeing this trickling down to them too.

It may well be hidden in lower wages/slower raises.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 18:58

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Ze Pollack posted:

Sure! And some people voted for Hillary Clinton because they thought she'd declare war on Russia. Does their stupidity mean electing Hillary Clinton is a bad idea?

I never heard of anyone who did this, but plenty of people who voted Trump because they were afraid Hillary would declare war on Russia.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 19:32

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Majorian posted:

Yet that's not how it turned out for the ACA. Sure, it was unpopular for a while, but it passed, it became unpopular for a while, and then when it started working and Republican plans to repeal it failed, it got popular again. The Democrats lost in 2010 and 2014 not because of the ACA, but because they had no unified strategy, and they ran away from a still-popular president.

Trump voters who were using Obamacare willfully disbelieved he would do anything to it, because why would he want to make himself unpopular? Obviously he just planned to make it better.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 20:08

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Sir Kodiak posted:

And, hey, so far it's looking like he can't.

So... are the really dumb somehow surprisingly clever? This topsy-turvy world we live in.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 21:13

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Brainiac Five posted:

At the height of the Civil Rights Movement's popularity, only 40% of the population supported it. If we go by Ze Pollack's argument that ignoring the will of the constituency is wrong, then it was wrong for politicians to support the Civil Rights Movement at all. This is why "populism" is inherently racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.- because if the majority actually, genuinely, supported equal rights for a minority group then equal rights would already exist. Most leftists nowadays are two-faced- they say that they really care about the gays, about black people, but their reflexive statements show otherwise.

You think that change happens instantly? The Democrats were all ready to enshrine protections for Trans people into law. Who stopped them? Their own doubts? Or the Republicans?

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 23:24

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 00:28

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Fulchrum posted:

No, even with a 90% tax rate the math just doesn't cover it. You do realise that the US didn't have universal healthcare with that top tax rate, right?

Refusing to acknowledge the math doesn't work and that we just need to do MORE of whatever you wanted to do in the first place is not the sort of thing that should be adopted from Republicans.

Plenty of other countries make the math work.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2017 22:21

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Healthcare Reform Megathread: Can I sell my organs to pay this hospital bill?

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