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And what the crap is with her outfit?
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Mar 17, 2017 18:48
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oath2order posted:Really? THIS is where you draw the line? It's just the latest in a series of crimes committed against fashion and good taste. Dr Pepper posted:Ya'll ready to accept it''s all witches yet? hahahahaha CottonWolf posted:Is Bern basically going to be Poirot, and we jumped in right at the parlour scene? Please let this be it.
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Mar 17, 2017 19:08
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Everyone sees her, so this can't just be straight-up Bern. I guess it's possible there could be another person on the island, if the bodies were all so destroyed as to be unidentifiable. This is where the mathematical principles represented by those lolis come into play; it's unlikely that another person ended up there, but it could happen, so a story about the events at Rokkenjima can include an extra person or two if the storyteller likes. I don't know that this story NEEDS more characters, but I guess we'll see how it goes.
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Mar 18, 2017 01:03
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It might make more sense once we see what led up to this, which I assume we're about to go through via flashback.
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Mar 18, 2017 18:05
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Folks, I think you have to assume by this point that avoraciopoctules is well aware that red text is canonical and is examining the work through the prism of it being non-canonical just to see what happens. That kind of experiment doesn't seem totally illegitimate given the way this game is set up, although I personally don't expect to be entertained by the results.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:14
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Krauss probably shouldn't have spent all that money investing in companies that make small bombs.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:15
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Dr Pepper posted:Realizing this is basically Ryuukishi saying good bye to his friend makes it pretty Yeah. I hope he got to say thank you before the end.
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Mar 21, 2017 02:00
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ProfessorProf posted:
This is how you end up with small bombs, Battler. ProfessorProf posted:
Oh, Jesus, is he really going there? Does this story actually follow Knox's rules? I'm pretty sure we've violated a few of these already. I think we talked about this a bit in the last thread, but here's the complete list: 1. The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow. 2. All supernatural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course. 3. Not more than one secret room or passage is allowable. 4. No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need a long scientific explanation at the end. 5. No Chinaman must figure in the story. 6. No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right. 7. The detective must not himself commit the crime. 8. The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader. 9. The stupid friend of the detective, the Watson, must not conceal any thoughts which pass through his mind; his intelligence must be slightly, but very slightly, below that of the average reader. 10. Twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them. Just for reference, rule 5 isn't about Father Knox being racially prejudiced; it's actually the opposite. Back when he wrote the book these rules come from, Yellow Peril stories were pretty popular, and so whenever anyone from China appeared in a story, it was only so that they could be revealed as a perfidious, semi-mystical menace. That sort of thing is antithetical to a well-constructed mystery both because it's racist as poo poo and because it makes the mystery too easy to solve. Note that while Father Knox was actually a priest, he was not in any way associated with witch-hunting that I know of. I'm fairly certain he didn't become an archbishop, either. Anyway, we've already followed everyone's thoughts, I think, so 1 is out. We've got two secret passages (one leading to the gold and one leading between mansions), so 3 is busted. If Kinzo was raised in China, we might technically have violated 5. Whether we've broken 6 depends on who we consider to be the detective; if it's Battler, he's been helped by accidents a few times now. He's more like a Watson, though, and he's doing a good job at being incompetent, so if that's how it works both 6 and 9 would be intact. We broke 8 with the epitaph stuff in earlier episodes, but maybe we won't screw with that one anymore. Lots of proposals of 10 have happened, but I don't believe we've proven any of them yet. Overall, Bernkastel's argument is full of holes. Good thing she doesn't actually exist or she might be embarrassed. (Now I'll wait around for some wag to try to say that we've violated the second rule, too.) Oh, a point of trivia. Knox was also one of the first people to play The Great Game. For the unfamiliar, that involves trying to square the accounts of Sherlock Holmes with reality, explaining any inconsistencies in the canon or between the canon and reality. (For instance, Watson's injuries are said to be in two different places at different points during the Holmes stories, so one has to decide if he was wounded twice, or if there was an unlikely accident with a particularly strangely-behaved bullet.) He wrote at least one article on the subject. It feels kind of appropriate that someone involved in that sort of pursuit would be mentioned in this game.
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Mar 22, 2017 14:39
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"There's no way he'd say something so ridiculous, right...? After all, supposing that such a thing exists would be just as bad as surrendering to the fantasy genre."
"...What do you mean, 4th commandment?"
"Knox's 4th. It is forbidden for unknown drugs or difficult to understand scientific devices to be used. It's a rule that these cannot be used for murder."
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You know, it's been ages since I read that, and I forgot how funny it is. It's really worth a look if you have even the most passing interest in mysteries.
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Mar 22, 2017 14:58
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Dr Pepper posted:Also when has Battler been helped by accident or luck. I was thinking of Ange blasting through a window at the exact right moment to keep him from signing away victory, but actually you could cast that as part of Bernkastel's plan, so I'll withdraw that objection for now. Qrr posted:Nothing she just said about Knoxs rules was in red. The thing about those rules is that they're about writing a satisfactory mystery - one that doesn't make a reader feel cheated by the answer. That's a fantasy as much as witches are, though. There's nothing forcing the killer to follow those rules, and some incentive for them to break the ones they can break if it improves misdirection. Right, it doesn't have to, but Bern is contending that it does. I'm saying she's wrong. It's conceivable that, say, the secret passages don't really exist, though. I guess we'll see on that one. Qrr posted:I'm not sure we can say for sure that any have been broken, though. Yes, we've seen inside people's thoughts, but those thoughts can be fiction the same as anything else that isn't in red. Same with the secret passages we've seen - they may not actually exist. The intent of that rule is that it's unfair to the reader to have them follow a murderer's thoughts through a murder investigation and just suppose that they happen to not think about how they committed the murder. It's dirty pool, or as Knox might say, not cricket. KataraniSword posted:I think the definition of "secret passage" is meant to be "a hidden passageway concealed by a false wall or other non-obvious entrance". Something that A Watson wouldn't be able to spot before it was opened. Knox allows that one might include a secret passage in an appropriate area (and Rokkenjima definitely qualifies as that), but that you should limit yourself to one out of good taste. They haven't been used to bust a closed room yet, though, so that's something.
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Mar 23, 2017 02:50
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tiistai posted:"Unknown" in this context means asspull poisons like Purupurupikopuyo that causes people to mass hallucinate witches and golden butterflies and oyashiro-sama, not "unknown" as in something that hasn't been explicitly mentioned before. Everyone knows that "poison" is something that kills you without necessarily leaving external signs of it, although something like foaming at the mouth is obviously a telltale sign of it. There's no need to explicitly explain it. Where did the poison come from, then? If the murders were planned, maybe the cuplrit procured it beforehand from mainland, or maybe Nanjo brought it. Maybe it was found in Kinzo's study which has been mentioned having all sorts of crazy stuff in it. Whatever, it's not inconceivable. Yeah, it's like... if you said someone is killed by poison, fair enough. That's a very solid mystery sort of way to kill someone. If you run across a burned-up body, and then the solution ends up being that there's a new kind of poison nobody has ever heard of that actually causes the body to set on fire when you take it, that's not a mystery. It could be some other kind of story, but there's no way you can expect a reasonable person to figure that out before the book tells you about it, and the central factor of a mystery is that it's a puzzle intended for the reader to figure out. The ideal for a mystery writer is that you don't actually figure it out yourself, but that upon reading the solution, your first reaction is "OF COURSE, I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT, IT'S SO OBVIOUS NOW". It can be hard to hit that mark, and writers miss in both directions, but that's what they are (or should be) aiming for. Knox's rules are really a bit tongue-in-cheek. If you had to break it down, the only two REAL rules are: 1) Play fair with your audience and 2) Don't overuse cliches, especially when they don't make any drat sense.
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Mar 23, 2017 15:54
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I don't know from Higurashi, but attitudes towards her are going to be softer as long as she's aiding the protagonist, who we like. Now that their interests are no longer perfectly aligned, and she's acting like a giant jerk, it's easier not to like her. Of course, she doesn't exist, so I personally don't care much one way or another.
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Mar 23, 2017 23:34
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ProfessorProf posted:Technically, if you listen to the Japanese dialogue, she says "Start, Cleanup, Draw", which doesn't quite match Japanese M:TG terminology or Yugioh terminology, so either it's a generic card games reference or a reference to a card game I don't know about. Given that it immediately followed <Direct Attack>, I'm guessing it's supposed to be Yugioh. resurgam40 posted:What the loving gently caress is going on here? Quite. Let's see. ProfessorProf posted:
What he wants is for Natsuhi to remember. What Beatrice wants is for Battler to remember. Is there a connection? Are these murders being committed by people who are angry about being forgotten? ProfessorProf posted:Natsuhi's mind went blank... And from beyond the sound of the wind howling outside the window, she most certainly heard the roar of the sea from that day... I guess she tried to drown her baby? Or maybe it was an accident, but if that's the case, why wouldn't whoever saved him have brought him back to her? This must certainly be a character we already know. I think we're being teased that it might be Battler given the stuff in the last episode, but I think it's more likely to be Kanon. It would explain why he's so bitter and angry. It would also make his attraction to Jessica SUPER loving WEIRD, although maybe that's why he doesn't want to give in to it.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:53
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"...It'd be easy for me to tell you my name. But that would make me very sad."
"I don't know what you're talking about. Who are you? And what business do you have with me?! If you can't tell me that, I'm not interested! I'm hanging up...!"
"And what is it that you're telling me to remember? I don't know you, so I have nothing to remember!"
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A fair point.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:57
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Aumanor posted:Welp, this update looks like the final nail in the coffin for the Kanon=Shannon theory. We've been told in red that save for Erika, the number of people in this game is exactly the same as in the previous games, and Battler, who we consider our only reliable viewpoint has personally seen everyone in the same room. I'm not a proponent of the theory, but there are a couple of holes in the reasoning here. 1) Piece-Battler was the designated detective, not Meta-Battler. The game literally just reminded us last scene that what Meta-Battler sees may be false, despite him being the point of view character in some ways. As long as everyone goes along with something, it can be shown to him as if it were true. 2) Piece-Battler isn't the detective anymore. It was just declared in red that Erika is the detective as of now and presumably for the rest of this game. That means that things are only seen if she acknowledges them; Piece-Battler is officially a supporting character in this story. (Presumably taking up the role of Doctor Watson/Captain Hastings/Archie Goodwin.) I'm not sure how I feel about the protagonist being suddenly displaced, honestly, but there it is. It's even consistent with the principles Knox outlines in his paper; the detective is, by nature, someone who only begins their work after the main action has taken place. They, of all characters, don't have to be introduced at the beginning of the story.
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Mar 25, 2017 19:47
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Eleanore posted:Whether Battler counts as a reliable perspective is kind of moot. Either Piece-Battler is still reliable, or Erika is the new reliable one. In either case they were together with Shannon and Kanon in the same room at the same time. So yeah, I'd consider that theory debunked. Does she know how many people are supposed to be in that room? Was she introduced to them, or did she interact with them directly at all? Now, that said, I think it's super unlikely because of the relationship stuff I brought up before. I just think we need to be careful about this kind of situation in general, or the game is going to trick us; the variability of observations is its main weapon for distracting us from the solutions of the mysteries. Eleanore posted:Also I'm still suspicious about that red about Erika not being the culprit. I'll buy that she can't be the murderer but does that prevent her being the accomplish or part of some minor crimes during this game? (Since the red about her not being involved with previous games seems ironclad). Yeah, she might contribute somehow. I doubt it, though; I think having an Actual Detective is the game starting to part the curtains for us a little bit. Might just be wishful thinking, though. MonsterEnvy posted:I have actually heard of Erika before and I heard her image song a few years back. I know nothing about her other then apparently lots of fans hate her. Well, she's apparently a Bernkastel fanfic self-insert right after we started hating Bern, so she's got kind of an uphill battle here.
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Mar 25, 2017 22:09
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ProfessorProf posted:Pretty soon, not only Kyrie, but everyone else also caught on. Even though she was an uninvited guest, she was apparently worthy of participating in an Ushiromiya family dinner. God, she's even more of a Mary Sue than we thought. ProfessorProf posted:
OK, I admit it, she's my new favorite character. Incidentally, the "little grey cells" line is straight out of Agatha Christie. Hercule Poirot, her primary and most famous detective (and probably the second-most-famous detective worldwide after Sherlock Holmes), was very concerned about the activity of his little grey cells, and spoke of them often. He's also a detestable, bombastic, tiresome, egocentric little creep, or at least that's how Christie described him. (Like Conan Doyle, she grew to loathe her primary character, but unlike him, she didn't try to kill him off until the end of her career.) Edit: Eleanore posted:I'm guessing this is our cue to solve the epitaph before the game tells us how to do it? In which case I got nothing. I had some crap idea about migration patterns of some butterfly that had one of the kanjis in its name, but it took me absolutely nowhere. I'll just jump on board TLCs Taiwan - RUDOL thing. I've kind of admitted defeat on this one. If the line of reasoning we have now is correct, it probably requires linguistic and/or geographic skills I don't have to proceed. (And if it isn't, I'm even more clueless.) Eleanore posted:I was also thinking about how we've generally accepted that Kumasawa, Genji and Nanjo are probably accomplishes. The game has also pretty much been yelling in our face about how Virgillia and Ronove are the magical counterparts to Kumasawa and Genji... So is Gaap supposed to be Nanjo? Hmm. That's possible. Beatrice also said that Gaap used to bedevil her, though, by making her lose things. (Well, she said "tease", but you know.) It's possible she's just the Personification Of Accidentally Misplacing poo poo. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 16:58
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"...It really is a fascinating riddle. He stuck it out in a place where anyone could see it, challenging our intelligence. I love that kind of challenge."
"Whoa. You seem surprisingly interested, Erika-chan. Do you like solving riddles or something?"
"You're right... Since it's inside the mansion, there's no way for someone who can't enter the mansion to solve it. So, that means Grandfather has been challenging the people in this mansion."
"...<Good>. Well thought. Just by the simple fact that the epitaph is inside the mansion, it's possible to figure out that much."
"Wh, why's that?!!"
"Th, that's right. It happens a lot in those stories about Sengoku period military commanders that my husband loves. When there are multiple candidates for the successor, it usually results in an internal squabble..."
"...That's right... That's why it's important to clearly specify a successor, so that you can avoid any trouble. Sometimes, there's even a purge of all the competing successors."
"Ha, hahahaha. So, Erika-chan, would you like to have a go at the epitaph's riddle?"
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grandalt posted:You know, thinking about things, in spite of Erika taking the detective role, a certain fact remains unchanged. The only person we know to leave the island alive is Eve, looks like things will not go well. Yeah, Erika is dead no matter what else happens. She has to be for this all to make sense; in order for this sequence of events to remain an unknown that different stories can be created about, the actual truth of the events can't escape the island. In fact, her body probably has to be totally destroyed so that no evidence of her presence on the island exists. Eleanore posted:Apparently 京 can also mean ten quadrillion aside from capital city. So by Rosa's logic you start the journey of 1/10th of that... in other words at 1 quadrillion. My only question is if Atlases usually include train stations? Since the answer apparently can be found in an Atlas. Depends on the Atlas. They often will, especially if a lot of people actually use the train in question. As for the epitaph in general, yeah, that looks like it must be it. So you pull out some of the letters on the sign, rearrange others, and then probably push those in (that feels more like a "gouge" motion), and the secret passage opens. I'm still going to bet it's a separate secret passage from the secondary mansion passage, though. I can't imagine Kinzo wanting to go through that every single time he wanted to go over there.
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Mar 27, 2017 18:32
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Skylight posted:Normally I'd agree, but please keep in mind who you're talking about.  Oh, my Beatoriche, how I long to see you again... I must go to Kuwadorian. Genji! Fetch the keys to the hidden passageway! You mean the tax forms, sir? YES! Arise, Ronove, demon accountant beloved of hell! Lord Goldsmith commands you! Pu ku ku... This human 1040 form will present no obstacle. Sir, I believe that in this country... Quiet! And now, for the second key: the Devil's Sudoku! Gaap, attend me! It certainly is convenient to be able to rearrange the numbers as one likes! And now the third key! The unanesthetized root canal! Chiester sisters! Inflammation detected beneath molar 16! Transmitting targeting data! Data link established nyeh. Commencing fire along maxillary curve! Sir, there must be an easier way of doing this... Mmmphpmmm. OMMM DSSSSSRM.
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Mar 28, 2017 02:58
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He may even enjoy it.
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ProfessorProf posted:The puzzle-solving game is what's important to her, and she doesn't intend to take any responsibility for what happens after the riddle is solved. A riddle is sort of like a lock. Locks exist to be locked. And they're only significant when they're locked. Therefore, there has to be some sort of reason for exposing that sort of thing. However, this girl has set the exposing itself as her final goal, and she doesn't plan on taking responsibility for anything that happens later. Bah! An unlocked lock is just as significant; if you couldn't unlock it, you might as well just bury the door instead. People only put locks on things so they can be opened later. Now that we have confirmation of the gold in red... I have to wonder where Kinzo got it from? It sure as hell wasn't witches! Maybe some kind of massive robbery, but who has that much gold to begin with?
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Mar 28, 2017 14:24
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If Beatrice (whoever Beatrice really is; let's just use Beatrice as a placeholder for now) isn't doing this for revenge or because she hates Battler or wants to make him afraid, she's doing it for this reason:ProfessorProf posted:
Without love, etc. Why do you present someone with a mystery? Because you want them to try to solve it. Remember the quick-flashing red text from last game? Kill me quickly, try to stop me, bring my story to an end. The murders are a threat to obligate action. Beatrice wants to be caught and stopped, and specifically wants Battler to be the one to do it. That's why he's left alive, so he can solve the mystery.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:07
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"...Next time you want to send a love letter, I suggest that you just write 'I love you'. If you make it too roundabout and confusing, no one's gonna be able to figure it out."
"...*giggle*."
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savixeon posted:And we don't know who performed the first six murders after the epitaph was solved this time. Sure we do. We've even got a reasonable supposition as to her motive: someone discovers that Kinzo is dead, and she has to kill that person to protect her secret, and then things spiral out of control. It's conceivable she didn't commit all the murders, of course, if you want to assume that she didn't kill Jessica. I'm sure that some more terrible stuff will come up, of course, because... you know, Umineko.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:20
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It's unlikely that will ever be confirmed in red; the red text is going to try to make us think that witches did it. We may get some blue text on it at some point, though.
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Mar 30, 2017 04:27
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There's a fairly common magic trick where, when you have a sharply limited number of options, you conceal papers listing all of them in different places or differentiate them in some other invisible way. So, for instance, if I wanted to predict what season was your favorite, I could have two differently-sized pieces of paper folded up in each of my front pockets. When you told me which your favorite was, all I have to do is reach into the appropriate pocket and pull out the correct piece of paper and hey, presto, I'm psychic! (It's more theatrical if you can conceal them in the room ahead of time, but that isn't always practical.) I don't know if that's what happened here, of course. I guess I'll have to think about whether this <good> avatar is a compliment or an insult.
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Mar 30, 2017 15:12
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oath2order posted:For what it's worth, we've been talking about getting you an Erika AV since like episode 3. Rodyle posted:There's a couple people with AVs in the pipeline but yeah you've always been Erika. It's a fair cop. Speaking of Erika, many fictional detectives have been broken people; as I mentioned earlier, Holmes and Poirot both ended up detested by their authors. They didn't necessarily start as irritants; they were more intended to be eccentric, but after a while it's hard to ignore the fact that your ostensible protagonists routinely do things like disguising themselves while talking to their best friends and then make fun of them for not noticing, or load a bunch of perfectly innocent people into a room with a murderer so that they can show off their reasoning skills, or withhold the solution to a mystery from the proper authorities until what they consider to be the most dramatic moment. In some ways, the conventions of the genre kind of force your detective to be a bit of a douche. Some authors, of course, have leaned into this; Rex Stout's detective, Nero Wolfe (a personal favorite of mine), is a lazy misogynistic jerk who routinely turns away clients who can't afford to pay his (ridiculous) fees even if they desperately need his services. Of course, he's aware that he's a lazy bag of dicks, so he employs the point of view character, Archie Goodwin, both to do his legwork and to kick him in the rear end just enough to get him off it so he can solve mysteries. While a detective is supposed to present you with a challenger match wits with, there's no harm in them also being an interesting character in their own right and, in fact, that often makes for much better storytelling.
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Mar 31, 2017 01:59
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Judge Dee? I believe I've read one of those before; perhaps I'll look the others up sometime. Knox would have a heart attack.
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Mar 31, 2017 03:36
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ProfessorProf posted:I was sure that Father would blame me. However, he seemed somehow strange...! Hmm. This makes it seems like the Beatrice's Kid theory has some legs. The description of the child as an "empty cage" particularly; he can't catch Beatrice's spirit in a dead child. ProfessorProf posted:To all the people encouraging me to rest for my health: Your concerns are appreciated! The issue is kidney stones, which means I'm in a fair amount of pain and not really leaving my apartment, but definitely doesn't inhibit my ability to take screencaps of visual novels. This thread and Zelda are the main things keeping me from going stir-crazy. Ouch. Sympathies. Hope it's over with soon.
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Apr 1, 2017 18:24
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Not all of the victims had to have faked their deaths; even one would be enough to clean up the others. Battler didn't examine all of them, so that's okay. Although I guess Erika didn't really examine ANY of them, which is more relevant right now since she's the detective. (She specifically said she wasn't going to look through slits in anyone's neck.) So anyone or everyone could still be alive. I guess a better question would be WHY they would do this. Maybe it's a scheme to reveal Kinzo? Krauss could have been genuinely kidnapped by someone, while everyone else pretended to be dead to freak Natsuhi out and get her to admit that Kinzo's still alive. The tape is clearly there to restrict who had access to the room when. Did Erika run across the murder scene and just seal it up for later? That'd be super weird, but, well. ProfessorProf posted:
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Apr 3, 2017 23:43
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"...Do you even have a heart?"
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RedMagus posted:wait what? Wow, I've been living a lie for all these years. You're not totally wrong. The original title and children's rhyme were indeed Ten Little N-words, but the original American release switched the rhyme out for Indians (although the title of the book was "And Then There Were None"). The book got revised again once everyone realized "Ten Little Indians" was only marginally better, and the rhyme is now Ten Little Soldiers. As I mentioned in the last thread, Umineko owes a lot to that story in particular; I'm glad to see it got name-checked here. Speaking of which... Battler being an obvious mystery fan just reinforces my idea that this mystery is being staged for him. It's not just a puzzle for him to solve, it's a puzzle for him to solve using conventions he is familiar with and even enjoys. Is this an interest he shared with someone else on the island?
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Apr 4, 2017 19:21
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xxlicious posted:"The detective has a right to investigate all crime scenes" - is that true of golden age mystery fiction in general? In terms of genre expectations, I mean. Forgot to address this. Fundamentally, yes, it is. There are occasions where the detective is opposed in investigating the scene, but those are a tool to generate more interest; in the end, the story will always let them look at it in any classical mystery. In general, in the earliest mysteries, the detective will be present with the support of the police or some other powerful party, which makes this trivial. Later mysteries are where you'll encounter more difficulties; Archie Goodwin often has to pull some kind of flim-flam to investigate a scene for Wolfe. (On one particularly memorable occasion it was literally guarded by a bull.)
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Apr 4, 2017 23:42
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...that is magical. METAPHORICALLY.
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Apr 5, 2017 00:50
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I have no idea what in the heck a Dianor might be, but I'm sure whatever happens next will be crazy.resurgam40 posted:Erika is being such a loving tool here that I want to argue with her on every point just on general principle. I suspect that this is at least part of the point of having her in the story. Umineko is an argument about what genre the story it contains is, and she is, at least superficially, exactly the character a mystery fan wants to be in there to defend the idea that everything is done without magic. But she's such an enormous prick about it that you almost WANT the magic stuff to be true just so she'll be wrong. She's another way of making the argument more complicated. Simply by the existence of Erika in the story, this level of reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas. What do you think, everyone?
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Apr 5, 2017 14:54
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Apart from Ronaid (Is it mandatory that the I be capital? That could make it look enough like an L to work), maybe ordain? She could be a shrine maiden or something; it might make sense to bring in a religious authority to counter a witch.
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Apr 5, 2017 15:46
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The "all die" line could just be a red truth confined to that one gameboard. Everyone did die in that episode.
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Apr 5, 2017 20:10
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Okay, I am genuinely confused about whether it's D-L or D-I at this point.
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Apr 5, 2017 21:31
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In that case, Roland is probably a good guess, or Arnold, or Ronald. I'm betting it's Ronald, because that's Father Knox's first name. Is this going to be some hosed-up gender-swapped version of Knox?
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Apr 5, 2017 21:55
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I thought that bit was a little weird, because I thought the blue truth had to deny witches. I may have misunderstood that, though.Poltergrift posted:EDIT: If it's Knox's first name, it's definitely Ronald. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Knox I didn't realize he was named Monsignor. Good for him.
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Apr 6, 2017 00:03
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idonotlikepeas posted:In that case, Roland is probably a good guess, or Arnold, or Ronald. I'm betting it's Ronald, because that's Father Knox's first name. Is this going to be some hosed-up gender-swapped version of Knox? Holy poo poo it actually was. WHAT IS SHE WEARING. HOW DO THE OUTFITS GET MORE INSANE. ProfessorProf posted:
And here we are, in a mystery story, positioned to root for the (potential) culprit to succeed in deceiving the detective. This poo poo is FASCINATING. (Speaking of, what is the deal with Dlanor's speech pattern? Is it a translation thing?)
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Apr 6, 2017 15:46
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"Isn't it about time to give up and confess? Culprits who are bad at giving up tend to go with bad mystery novels. At least in the end, please prove that this is a slightly better third-rate mystery than that."
"...Aah, it's useless. It's all useless."
"And just what... is useless?"
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grandalt posted:Knox's rules? Isn't it already proven that a number of those rules are broken for this story? I would think that would make using them a poor choice. So, this was my contention, and I maintain that it is true, but I think there's a bit of nuance here. Specifically: the story itself craps on Knox's decalogue in a few places, but not when there's a murder. So it's okay to have a secret passage to the golden land, as long as we aren't trying to solve a murder mystery where the solution involves escaping through it. We can have clues about the epitaph that aren't produced for the reader, but the same thing won't happen with murder clues. We've definitely followed the murderer's thoughts, but probably not during the part of the story where we're investigating the murder. And so on. The story basically flips from background material (which might be classified as an adventure story) into a mystery at a certain point, and once we're in the latter territory we're following Knox's commandments. I don't know if this holds for sure, but it seems a reasonable hypothesis to work with for now. tiistai posted:I guess nobody expected the Heavenly inquisition The Heavenly Inquisition is expected by NOBODY. BurningStone posted:This is making me wonder where the body is. Or maybe in this timeline it was cremated long ago? I expect it's still kicking around somewhere. Might be locked up in the basement or something? Probably near where it usually gets burned. Nobody wants to have to carry a body around everywhere. BurningStone posted:Claim that the window wasn't really locked, just stuck/taped and Rudolf mistook it for locked? Claim Kinzo came out from hiding and went out the door while all of them were looking around the apartment? The fact that the windows were locked has been stated in red. The other one is possible, but unlikely given the number of people involved. Cyouni posted:My expectation was the last of those three blues - Kinzo left first, then Natsuhi followed him out some time later. Eva seals the door when Natsuhi leaves, after Kinzo has already left. If it's a closed room, then all you have to do is exit it before the trap slams shut. This one works, I think. There are multiple rooms in there, so you can even have Natsuhi go into the bathroom or whatever and have him slip out, so that she thinks he's still in bed even when he isn't.
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Apr 7, 2017 01:03
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OK, that was pretty great, but my favorite part is how when Erika says "but that's crazy", the response is "Well, yeah, but... you know, Kinzo." It's like they're all re-enacting every conversation we've had about him in this thread. Sure, if it's Kinzo, he would probably jump out a third-story window into a storm for absolutely no goddamned reason. That's just how he is. No witches required, just a really crazy dude.
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Apr 7, 2017 16:50
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