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So I just caught up with these threads and Im enjoying this ride so far. Im new to umineko so i have a theory as to the mystery surrounding the servants. Is it alright if I post my theory even though it contains spoilers from the previous game?
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# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 17:39 |
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# ¿ May 2, 2024 21:58 |
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Ok heres my theory regarding the 2 servants based on what we know about them. While we heard shannons name "Sayo" we still haven't heard Kannons true name. Every time he was asked to tell us his name he refused and/or died before telling it to us. I think that his other name is "Kinzo". Like Battler stated "Kinzo is the name that is passed down to the new head of the family" so when the real Kinzo dies the servants were used to maintain the illusion that Kinzo still lives. But with that in mind EP 1 Kannon even has a conversation with "Kinzo" about the epithet and how whomever solves it becomes the new head of the family. Of course Kannon states that he cannot since he is just furniture but "Kinzo" just chuckles knowingly as if he doesn't fully believe Kannon's words. Once the murders start the only time we see "Kinzos" body is once Kannon is "dead"/"dying". That means that Beato can say "Kannon is dead" and "Kinzo is dead" in red and not lie since technically both are dead at the time. As for Shannon, i agree with the thread that she is probably Beatrice and the murders is part of revenge against the family for mistreating her. I also think that she is related with the family on a greater level than previously shown. For this to be true Battlers story has to go one way which has been hinted at but not confirmed. According to Beato, Asumu isn't Battlers' mother but he is still Kinzos grandson. This made me reflect on Kyries story and how she mentioned that her son died at child birth and Asumu gave birth to Battler at around the same time. But what happens if the opposite occurred? if Asumus child died at child birth and Kyrie son was born but Rudolf had them switched. So that would make Battler Kyries' biological son while Rudolf married Asumu. Now of course why would Rudolf do that? or someone do that to him? Well inter-family politics aside maybe he didn't want the Sumadera family involved with succession in the Ushriomiya family since Battler would have been in line for the succession and Rudolf couldn't let that happen. So he had them switched (essentially) and lied about who gave birth to Battler. That would make Ange Battlers biological sister and Kyrie is his biological mother. Im sure there are points that contradict these claims but i dont remember them at this time. lookw fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Mar 21, 2017 |
# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 18:23 |
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Rune Full Moon posted:Shannon is 16, Battler is 18, iirc. welp there goes that theory. so shannon and Kannon are the same age?
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# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 18:57 |
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*More Higurashi Spoilers* I think Rika is stated to be over 100 years old (mentally speaking) by the end of Higurashi and the amount of time she has before she gets killed in each timeline gets progressively shorter. She repeated parts of her life up to that summer 1000's of times (since the length of each timeline varies). You know Bernkastel isn't a good person by any extension in higurashi too (she does taunt the characters in that game as well). Though her cruelty always serves a purpose so as to allow the players in the witches game to win. She is genuinely a cruel person and has no trouble doing horrible things but...........she wants the game to end and will do almost anything to be entertained and win. She isnt the players "friend" but she is an very tentative "ally" under very specific circumstances (who will have no trouble messing with you for kicks out of sheer boredom).
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# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 01:45 |
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mycelia posted:The 'E' in Erika (ヱ) is an archaic version of the character エ, which is weird because the rest of her first name is in katakana, which indicates it's a transliterated foreign name. As for why that is, your guess is as good as mine. Probably Bern being an rear end in a top hat. Thats because one of the main characters in Higurashi is Furude Rika so the author just slightly Westernized the name and inserted her into the story. Rika and Erika are similar but not the "same" person in this game. So yes Bern is just being an rear end in a top hat. Also it seems to draws attention to the other character names (hers being slightly changed from her other name) and maybe we can translate them to Japanese names (or vice versa) to solve the witches epithet or at least part of the riddle by removing some characters in their names. Though i am unfamiliar with the Japanese written language. of course soon we will see how she interacts with the rest of the cast and what "truths" she will find.
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# ¿ Mar 25, 2017 17:29 |
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BurningStone posted:Bravely ignoring that update to try and focus: The double battlers feels like there is a simple explanation but it requires Rudolf, Kinzo and Asumu to work. I believe that both Asumu and Kyrie were pregnant at the same time (or close enough to make little difference). Also Asumu gave birth first to Battler and Kyries child died at birth right? But what happens if they both were born and Asumus child died soon after? Since Kyrie has.....lets say a very controlling family it would not be to their benefit to have her marry into the Ushiromiya family at the time. So they were switched at birth. Kyrie was told her child died and Asumu was given "Battler" to raise as her son. That would explain why Battler was both Ushiromiya Asumus son and "Battler" was not born from Ushiromiya Asumu. Also every-time Rudolf tries to tell both Kyrie and Battler about Battlers birth...or something....he dies or gets distracted. He even mentions how he may be killed that night before hes able to tell Battler what he wanted to say. That means someone else knows the secret and doesn't want it to come to light. Maybe battlers sin is leaving. Though it seems like everyones distracted right now with the first epithat murders so im guessing the next victims...........are going to be rudolf and kyrie (cause he can never explain) or shannon and kannon since i dont believe they have been killed together (outside the 3rd game). As for why? if natsushi would be the killer then she would probably kill them to keep the secret of Kinzos disappearance secret. As for anyone else.....well.......cause they found out what really happened to kinzo.
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# ¿ Apr 5, 2017 17:35 |
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Graylien posted:Come to think of it, how did Yasu find all this out? I assume there's a big revelation coming, but the step from 'I am a servant who is treated a bit weird' to 'I am the illegitimate heir and know all the awful details as to how I got here' is a pretty big one. Maybe it has something to do with Battler, things do seem to keep coming back to him, and if he's also illegitimate, as in the stillborn switch theory, there could be something there as to why Yasu feels such a connection with him. Im guessing that they realized it from kinzo (who would not shut up about beatrice and then confirmed it via genji). Thats what turned beatrice from a sorta nice witch that played with maria to, 'I will play with their lives and infinitely kill/resurrect them'. Also didnt battler mention in game 3 that he did have a crush on shannon? also shannon mentioned he made a bold claim the last time he was on the island? those were probably related to why the game happened in the first place. you know doesnt that make Yasu not only Battlers,Jessica, and Georges cousin but also their aunt/uncle? well thats probably something im better off not thinking about. lookw fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 25, 2017 |
# ¿ Jul 25, 2017 19:02 |
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PetraCore posted:Umineko: Everyone has reasons for acting the way they act, no matter how vile, and most people are just trying to do the best with the cards they've been dealt, no matter how poorly they cope. Yeah after learning about what he did my reaction was. "kinzo you incestous fucknugget you just had to make this family even MORE hosed up than it started out as" lookw fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jul 28, 2017 |
# ¿ Jul 28, 2017 02:20 |
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alcharagia posted:Like I said, Kinzo's a real ftfy Also higurashi is worth picking up ,there are only a few differences between the anime and VN, and it gives context to some things that occur in umineko. but its a good story regardless. KataraniSword posted:It's worth noting that unlike Umineko, there's no smoke and mirrors deployed - poo poo gets supernatural. Much like Umineko, though, it also lacks its back half on Steam, though there are (to my knowledge) official translations of the second set of VNs. Also supernatural forces are at work in higurashi (but treat it like a witches game except with no red or blue truths) well there was only 2-3 significant deviations from the VN (and are so smooth you wouldnt know they were deviations) but only 1 thing they cut out i felt should have been left in.
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# ¿ Jul 30, 2017 18:47 |
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Cyouni posted:That I can actually explain. Hideyoshi was paid off in some way, shape, or form. There was no need for Shannon to escape the padlocked shed (through an alternate key Genji held, for example) because there was no one there. It actually wraps up that one pretty neatly. i mean no one saw her body and it was only when hideyoshi mentioned that she was out of sight of the door with her head beaten beyond recognition that they "confirmed" she was dead. In fact........we never see her or kannons face when they are dead did we (even when the dead have a face)? mostly we only see the two of them interact on the same screen with genji, kumasawa,kinzo and beatrice. Everyone else "says" they spoken too the other or seen that person but there is no way to confirm if it was shannon or sayo or beatrice (hell kumasawa gave shannon an alibi during game 1 for who gave maria the umbrella). Then only other time we see them onscreen together with anyone else is when either magic is going on or during the metascenes. lookw fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 1, 2017 |
# ¿ Aug 1, 2017 15:25 |
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ZiegeDame posted:Battler sees dead Shannon's face in episodes 2-4. Very intimately in episode 2. The only reported sightings of dead Kanon are from World's Worst Doctor Nanjo, or dead Kanon walking around and killing people. Nope at least not in game 2 They find her and george in the same room and shes face down on the desk. Before battler can investigate it Rosa shoves him out of the room and they didnt return to confirm the two bodies. In game 3-4 they find her face up and see her face (or at least in episode 4 battler finds her body and goes into great detail about her face and how it was half blown off). In game 3 battler doesnt see her face but the 6 who find her body see her face. Ok, so in 2/4 games we dont see her face when shes dead (and i dont think we ever seen kannons corpse but thats pretty much order of the day for each episode).
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# ¿ Aug 1, 2017 18:50 |
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tiistai posted:Reminder to everyone to source your claims. I can think of a couple of arguments here that could have been resolved if the people actually checked the text. Ah my mistake. thank you for pointing that out. i completely missed that. So what commonly accepted theories explains that on the human side?
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# ¿ Aug 1, 2017 22:13 |
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ZiegeDame posted:My best guess, based on how everyone has been characterized thus far, is that it was Kinzo's idea, and either Rudolf was threatened with disinheritance if he didn't play along or he just outright wasn't told about it until after the deed was already done. Stealing Kyrie's baby to preserve the honor of the Ushiromiya family doesn't sound like something Rudolf would be capable of, but Kinzo could do it without breaking a sweat. Also remember that Kyries family also could have played a part in that decision as well. Considering how they REALLY would have loved to get the Ushiromiya money and gain political capital to take over. In fact thats most likely the reason that he pulled that. Its a terrible decision and he probably guessed that when he told battler and Kyrie one of them would kill him for his sins. mmm.....could Yasu have found out from kinzo? In one of Kinzos many insane rages over how pathetic his children are (in front of his personal servants) he could have let it slip about battlers true origins. He probably would have framed it as him saving their family from the claws of the Sumatas (i think thats their name?) and kept ranting about Rudolfs poor decision making skills in choosing women.
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# ¿ Aug 19, 2017 03:54 |
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resurgam40 posted:Oh, god. No. No no no no no... I sense the other shoe dropping, and through the power of magic, it has turned into a meteor hurtling toward earth. How happy it starts, how dignified and refined, everyone working together instead of sniping at each other and separating to die... but if this were a happy story, who is the teller? And why are Lion and Ange brought together to hear it? And why the chains? I doubt that its bernkastal....at least right now. Its Featherine Auaustein who set this up to learn the complete truth. Ange is her miko (which bernkastal was before) and charged with reading the story out for her. I wouldnt think that Featherine would let such a willing participant go so easily and having Lion there allows her to reveal how the witches side obfuscated the truth during the games. They will sit there as the illusion of the witch is slowly stripped away until the cruel reality is revealed. Also what song is Bernskastals music (im trying to avoid spoilers so im afraid to go to youtube)? would it be possible for a master list of the songs to be put in post after the game is done?
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# ¿ Sep 12, 2017 11:35 |
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tiistai posted:We weren't seriously going to do it, but for a minute in witchchat we were talking about joking in the thread how being under the pressure of impending death of him and his family is how Kinzo gets all his business planning done, to see how many people would take it as just a joke honestly? i wouldnt have seen that as a joke (at least not in the sense that i would disregard it). But i would have assumed it meant the epithet murders or his own disease. I wouldn't have considered explosives. uhh i just thought about this line. "regardless of the witches will"..that implies the explosives go off regardless of who sets them up (either yasu or eva). they just..........explode killing everyone in the mansion (except who escapes to the other mansion) since yasu planned to die its eva (the more practical witch) who manages to escape and set ange to find out the truth.....i guess shes getting what she wanted.
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# ¿ Sep 12, 2017 16:51 |
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.....................so where is battler? I mean Im assuming Kyrie killed maria but did she kill battler before Eva came along and killed Rudolph ? Though i wouldn't be surprised if Kyrie told Rudolph that she would let battler live and instead kill him. Or is battler now wandering the island seeing all of the dead? He wouldnt know to go to the other mansion so he would die in the explosion anyway. lookw fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Sep 15, 2017 |
# ¿ Sep 15, 2017 13:54 |
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ZiegeDame posted:Rosa, Hideyoshi, and Eva looks like multiple to me. Not to mention if they blamed her for Natsushi and Krauss, too. But I guess I phrased that poorly. What I meant was she didn't necessarily go into this planning to murder a bunch of people to take the gold, but once she entered murder town she didn't look back. Which now that I say it suggests that the only thing holding her back from doing murders in the past (Asumu being the big example) was the threat of being caught and punished more than any sense of morality. So hey, Kyrie might be a psychopath. Good to know. Though if bernkastal wanted to make Ange despair even more she would take great pleasure in showing how Kyrie killed both battler and maria. Remember, Ange was really close to both of them and thoughts of the 2 of them kept her alive and happier (by a matter of degrees). Hell seeing her own mother cruelly kill maria and battler (assuming battler is dead) would be horrifying for Ange and Bern would be greatly entertained (since that is something she is well familiar with). Even if its the full truth omitting those 2 scenes............seems like a move kept in reserve. For what? idk, but considering lion is still watching im sure they will start picking apart the story and bern is reserving those scenes for dramatic effect.
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# ¿ Sep 15, 2017 23:59 |
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ProfessorProf posted:
ProfessorProf posted:
Well.....that was revealing. Like bern pointed out so maliciously if anyone knows about miracles it would be her. Considering the events of higurashi if she claims that there is no chance for a miracle that says lion/yasu will survive it is probably true. However....even she left holes in her story that someone can use to make a miracle happen. BGM: The Executioner this song fits her perfectly.
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# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 15:30 |
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resurgam40 posted:Wh Hahahahahahahaha , unfortunately it seems like ange's ideal story involves kinzo being a kind, doting, loving *shudder* grandfather. It seems like in her ideal world everyone is laughing and happy (and somehow shannon and kannon are two people in the same room with the cousins and adults, so yasu as we know them doesnt exist?). I guess Ange wouldnt know about Yasu/lion but we didnt see the witches epithat or portrait either. EDIT:smooth Glass?!?!? when did that happen? lookw fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 24, 2017 |
# ¿ Sep 24, 2017 19:47 |
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ProfessorProf posted:
Ok ill go with A lookw fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Oct 4, 2017 |
# ¿ Oct 4, 2017 13:36 |
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Danaru posted:A - Grapefruit Considering the last riddle from a book they gave us was that bullshit cheese slicing one, they're really easing us into these A-Grapefruit that one is way too easy.
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# ¿ Oct 5, 2017 14:18 |
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ArashiKurobara posted:Ah! This one's a classic. B - a very cold place - the South Pole. I agree it seems like it should be B
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# ¿ Oct 6, 2017 14:25 |
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Confused Llama posted:I'm going to go with A, the stew is lying, because it says "I made some stew for you," but a thing can't make itself; moreover, all of the other food items refer to themselves as "me." Huh one thats fairly divisive. Im going with D-Ice cream since it specified that she came home VERY late and it would be melted. It could be the stew but i get the feeling that while its hard to determine if they could "make" themselves its not impossible and there was nothing contridictary about it. Also if we seem completely stuck could we ask for EVA's hint (if there is a consensus about needing it of course)?
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# ¿ Oct 7, 2017 16:06 |
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ZiegeDame posted:See the cooking talk got me thinking of the letters as ingredients and obviously when you're cooking you mix up the ingredients. You know i have no idea. Lets go with C: "b" for sahara desert
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# ¿ Oct 9, 2017 00:04 |
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Zack Ater posted:99+20=119 Yeah thats the answer. D:20 Also Confused Llama posted:No. No, it did not. Proofreading! Yeah......if we got caught up in the placement of the written words we would have gotten it wrong. I guess we were flexible enough to notice the mistake.
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# ¿ Oct 9, 2017 17:21 |
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ZiegeDame posted:That wordplay wasn't changed at all, Prof. It was just ruined. That was referring to the phone numbers used to summon either a police or ambulance. if in japan you want to call the police you would press 110 in your phone and if you wanted to summon an ambulance you would put 119. just knowing one of those numbers makes this alot easier. Heres a site that lists them. https://www.tokyo-icc.jp/guide_eng/kinkyu/01.html lookw fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Oct 9, 2017 |
# ¿ Oct 9, 2017 18:30 |
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RedMagus posted:Mathmatically it goes from 50mm (5cm) -> 25mm -> 12.5mm -> 6.25mm on hour three, but are they going to pull a trick like "what about the length of the flame at the start?" or "the residual heat melted it into a puddle"? Edit: I guess thats a trick question since they didnt specify when the candle burned out. So im changing my answer E: around `10 mm lookw fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Oct 10, 2017 |
# ¿ Oct 10, 2017 13:57 |
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Confused Llama posted:Yep, everyone's correct; it's the keys on a piano. Not sure I would have gotten it without Krauss and Natsuhi's comments about not getting it without the right experience, though... and if it hadn't started at C, for that matter. A. White Huh I never would have thought about that. i guess A. White is right.
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# ¿ Oct 11, 2017 15:26 |
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witchcore ricepunk posted:D. 4! huh im going with D:4 as well. though i do wonder if that was the way to get the answer.
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# ¿ Oct 12, 2017 15:48 |
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Zack Ater posted:I'm a chemist, how did I not.... yeah i also tried a similar method to reach a answer. I originally thought that its more of a see by how much it increased type of problem. the first leap was 16 coins and the second was 32 coins. but the answers didnt match any of the next possibilities. So C:78 seems correct (though giving that type of question to a 6 year old, really kanon?)
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# ¿ Oct 13, 2017 17:19 |
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huh am i overthinking it? I should have guessed that this one would be trickier than is immediately apparent. EDIT:Well if witchcore says so ill go with that reasoning. Well im going to guess D:I lookw fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Oct 14, 2017 |
# ¿ Oct 14, 2017 15:40 |
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witchcore ricepunk posted:I guess the goat killing accounts for the two extra minutes it takes to bring the gold up. i mean.....im going with E:8 but i get the feeling that there is a trap within the question. Either way its either 7 or 8 and while im not sure if 1 minute is enough to get out of the room ill trust witchcore.
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# ¿ Oct 16, 2017 04:45 |
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ZiegeDame posted:So we should probably assume that "rear bank" is just a typo and not that everyone is already where they need to be. I'm inclined towards A for the following reasons: well the general consensus is A:less than 10 for the point of "if we dont care about the animal or food" I wonder what she will say regarding that.
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# ¿ Oct 16, 2017 22:14 |
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Yep rika is the oldest. im going with C:rika though....................wait, wasnt miyoko a character in higurashi?
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# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 16:02 |
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Cyouni posted:I think that having them that way is likely part of the point in Battler's game. Yeah thats definitely battlers 'plan'. Will it succeed?No........In a minor way? maybe?? I am going with E; Miyoko, rika, satoko
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# ¿ Oct 18, 2017 16:42 |
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Wait.........they are doing that lesson here? Now? i thought battler would do it not jessica and george. Also, we get...confirmation, of battlers true parentage. It was pretty much as expected but it seems like rudolf is the only one behind it (rather than kinzo being involved).
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# ¿ Oct 19, 2017 13:58 |
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tiistai posted:Like ZD said, it didn't matter to Beatrice at all. She knew about it the whole time and only brought it up when she wanted to step down from the game but wasn't allowed. As for how she knew about it, Rudolf did talk about the matter with Krauss and Natsuhi sometime after Battler left, right? Maybe Yasu, Genji or Kumasawa overheard that conversation or some other one Krauss and Natsuhi had later and then figured it out. Maybe it's some kind of meta magic. Doesn't really seem like a very important detail to know. I think it was due to genji. When yasu solved the epithat they mentioned that all truths would be revealed to them so they could lead or destroy the family as they wished. Im sure that since kinzo figured it out and probably assisted with the hosptial cover-up as well (that would require alot of money and he would need to petition kinzo to recover his funds). Im sure its from them that yasu learned about battlers origins (also they could have just guessed and waited till the game itself to confirm). Also C is my guess.
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# ¿ Oct 19, 2017 18:14 |
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oh boy lamdadelta you shouldn't underestimate bernkastel. from your previous games you should know just how she operates..................................wait.........oh how clever bernkastel. Victory in this game will come at a steep price. Not for battler or beatrice but for Ange. Battlers game (a sort of party to celebrate the game itself) also was intended to let ange move on. I think bernkastel plans on using ange (she is still berns piece too) to destroy what battler was attempting to do. Well i guess we will see her "simple" game. Also remember impossible is not the same as improbable.
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# ¿ Oct 25, 2017 16:33 |
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ProfessorProf posted:
So now erikas getting into the fight? interesting. you know its funny. That was part of Bernkastals plan since the thing that Ange fears most is that her own family was behind the deaths on the island. Showing "proof" or plausible scenarios is basically confirming Anges worst fears so she won't be able to think about the scenario rationally. She may point out contridictions but she will take the scenario at face value since it just confirms her own thoughts. Of course now Erika is here and probably 'prove' that her theory is correct and live up to her moniker of "the witch of truth". I wonder what bern will do now.....
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# ¿ Oct 28, 2017 15:55 |
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# ¿ May 2, 2024 21:58 |
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ProfessorProf posted:
Yeah....considering what bern had gone through as a human im not surprised shes not like "bygones are bygones". Does that excuse whats shes about to do? No, not even close. Now they are entering stage 2 of berns game. This time battler will have ange to contend with since the entire point of bernkastals game was to cause ange to unlock the final "truth" that battler didn't want her to do. He gave her the key and hoped to let her live in her fantasy (like he did i guess) and live on by showing her how much fun they are all having within the cat box. Now she will unlock the cat box and see her 'truth' and cause the party inside to vanish. Now battler will have to fight against bernkastal to try and convince ange to not open the cat box.
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# ¿ Oct 30, 2017 13:59 |