The democrats are a waste

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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed.
B	77	25.50%
K	160	52.98%
M	65	21.52%
Total:	229 votes

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yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

NewForumSoftware posted:

Trump is better than Hillary because they serve the same masters but he's much more incompetent (hopefully Hillary would have been a better president than candidate, maybe I'm wrong here)

just lol if you believe there's a difference between the parties

Gentlegoons, I give you this thread's mascot.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 18:00

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:49

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Condiv posted:

the rich don't create jobs. catering to them won't create jobs. go to the trump thread and suck off trump there

Good job earnestly engaging with an obvious troll.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 18:02

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

NewForumSoftware posted:

Reagan

Literally your hated abuela's attack line on Obama.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2017 18:05

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

MizPiz posted:

He's basically running the Democrats, so...

So is Bernie now a waste or a Democrats are now not a waste?

Or did is the thread about to self destruct from the contradiction?

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 02:58

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

BadOptics posted:

God to be this stupid and yet still draw breath. A thesis on your brain's functions could help get a student through grad school.

sick bern bro

Do i need to spell it out? Democrats are a waste and Bernie is running them?

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 04:22

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

It's pretty much predicting doom and gloom for the party, nonsense posts about losing ground in the House next year, etc. If anything, events are showing the Democratic party as a whole is pretty responsive to its base. Not to be confused with loving naysayers who only moan rather than participate in any way other than maybe voting for Bernie (if they registered).

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 04:49

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

BadOptics posted:

Well I guess if you lack an understanding of the concept known as "context" and the reasons why people in this thread say "democrats are a waste", then what ever the gently caress you posted might make sense.

Edit: I'll even spell it out for you; if the Democrats had actually put their money where their mouth is and helped workers, the poor, the ability to unionize, decreasing foreign military engagements, etc, then this thread would almost certainly not exist. Bernie, while not exactly Lenin reborn, is currently leading the democrats to those ideals and actually fighting for them thereby putting them back on the right track. Before 2016, socialist policies were just crazy things those other people in every other developed country had. Now a few names who we'll almost certainly be seeing in 2020 are, crazy as it is, advocating for those same crazy things to happen here.

Edit2: This for the tl;dr version. VVVVVVVVVV

I predicted Dems would start hopping on MFA fast like two months ago. Guess what happened. No one rushed to agree with this view because the mindset of this thread is basically accelerationist.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 04:51

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

VitalSigns posted:

2/10 JeffersonClay's gimmick was much more entertaining

1/10 doesn't have NFS's hilarious avatar or non sequitur reference to slaves

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 05:16

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Ytlaya posted:

it doesn't cause any harm unless people are deciding not to vote in swing states as a result.

That is exactly what is being encouraged.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 21:30

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Condiv posted:

title checks out

Back at ya bro. Some of us actually need to live in the US.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 21:35

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Condiv posted:

it is, but i don't want that kind of attention from yronic

I can't help it accelerationism is just so :gizz:

# ¿ Sep 14, 2017 22:07

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

I am fine with criticism. I am fine with primarying. But the accelerationism goes beyond just the squawking of NFS.

Like say, Condivs reaction a few weeks back to me saying I would unapologetically vote for a centrist Dem senator in a general election against a Republican horror show. Calling someone a lovely person for taking that position is in fact discouraging turnout in a swing election. It's certainly a form of accelerationism in addition to obnoxious moralizing (from someone living in France, no less? Just sayin' if the France thing is true it's someone with minimal skin in the game telling progressives how to advance our goals... and also I would point out what we are doing is no different than someone voting Macron because Le Pen has to be stopped.)

# ¿ Sep 15, 2017 22:22

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

yronic heroism posted:

I don't care who gets primaried but in the general I will not apologize for voting to keep the seat from going to some Tea Party crazy.

See here and ensuing discussion.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 00:15

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Ytlaya posted:

Also, the whole topic of voting like this is only ever brought up because people don't have any other legitimate argument. Like, they know that something bothers them about what leftists (or whoever) are saying, but they can't really articulate what (or they know that if they articulate it, it wouldn't make them look good). So they resort to these bizarre concern trolls about how such criticism might help Republicans or whatever.

My personal feeling about voting for a non-Democrat for President in a swing state is that it's pretty much objectively a bad decision, but that it's not exceptionally stupid or offensive (unless they actually voted for the Republican, which is pretty awful). Everyone believes and does some wrong things, and voting third party or not voting is pretty low in terms of sins. It's more useful to continue to push for candidates who more people will actually want to vote for, because merely asserting that other people are making sub-optimal decisions accomplishes jack poo poo. When looking at large populations, it's just a fact that they don't spontaneously change their behavior without any sort of environmental aspect stimulating them to do so.

So what's your qualification for all this mind reading/psychoanalysis you do?

If you actually bother to follow the threads of conversation, maybe I don't like being called a centrist shill lord or whatever for saying, yeah, I vote strategically. And since this is debate & discussion on something awful dot com I am debating and discussing it.

Perhaps you should read your own mind and ask why if the voting thing is such a small matter why you tacitly don't have a problem with it being the basis for calling folks ITT the dreaded C word but will defend with thousands of words the folks who pull tha poo poo from the charge of accelerationism.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 14:39

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

It's also goalpost shifting as gently caress to start with "what accelerationism?" then pull this whole song and dance of "that's not what's really bothering you now watch as I vaguely speculate what I think actually is because I haven't gotten that far pulling your motivations out of my rear end yet" when I give you a concrete example of what I've been talking about.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 14:48

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

readingatwork posted:

If you're too chickenshit to withhold your vote when your party sells you out then they will literally never stop loving you over because there is zero incentive for them to do so. HTH.

Sound like soft accelerationism to me. You essentially are saying things should get worse so that some good thing can happen sometime in the future.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 17:22

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Kilroy posted:

More thought and effort goes into every single Ytlaya post than you've expended for the entirety of your posting history. Frankly this entire thread should just be Ytlaya dunking on idiot poo poo posters such as yourself while the rest of us point and laugh and otherwise don't bother contributing because it isn't necessary. Hope this helps.

I agree it would be better than you posting sick poo poo about wanting to shoot people.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 17:27

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

steinrokkan posted:

Labor movements achieved all their successes by the threat of workers withholding labor. Why shouldn't voters exercise the same form of leverage against their representatives? Why even bother with democracy if representatives are entitled to their slice of the electorate?

The smart time to withhold votes is in a primary, broadly speaking. There needs to be some common goal for coalition politics to work.

That's how I see things working for progressives, as defined by the vast majority of Democratic voters. Now an unironic "full communism" person might see things differently, but I actually think that's an incredibly small subset of votes.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 19:00

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

readingatwork posted:

You mean the ones the party leaders rig behind the scenes and where establishment candidates start the race with a bunch of free votes in the form of superdelegages?

No thanks. I'll just not vote for human garbage as a general rule if that's alright.

E:
There's a thread for this salt now. But of course the way to change the party rules and platform and leadership is also to participate.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 19:28

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Mister Facetious posted:

Bernie's successes in the primary were also a contributing factor. He's the right salesman, just working for a poo poo company.

Please tell us more about third party politics in the US, person from parliamentary country... :allears:

# ¿ Sep 16, 2017 19:40

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Nah, I'm calling out the bad posts in this thread. Which are many, and by very prolific regular posters, including the one who started the thread.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2017 00:19

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Kilroy posted:

There are lots of threads in D&D with lots of bad posts in them, so good luck to you calling them all out.

Unless you're singling out this one for some reason (you are).

Also your bad post radar is not calibrated well and I fear you're missing a lot of bad posts you could be addressing. This should get you started: https://forums.somethingawful.com/query.php?action=posthistory&userid=142988

Hey, that's not the guy threatening to shoot other goons at all!

:dukedog:

# ¿ Sep 18, 2017 06:37

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Ytlaya posted:

I mean, fair enough I guess, but think of it this way: How would you feel if someone popped into a global warming thread and like 95% of their posts were just calling out the mistakes made by the pro-global warming* posters? It's only natural to assume someone is opposed to something if they put nearly all their time into being contrarian towards those who support it, and that analogy is actually fairly generous because it's assuming the contrarian stuff in question is actually always valid and true. Tone is also important; it's possible to disagree with people without being clearly insulting and while still indicating that you're broadly on the "same side." Also, some degree of biased/irrational energy is inevitable with any sort of passionate/emotional ideological movement, so I don't think there's really any point in nitpicking over such things unless they're actually things officially or predominantly supported by the movement as a whole.

As a side note, regarding the "same side" thing, I think it's important to distinguish between posters like Condiv and posters like, say, shrike82. Condiv is pretty terrible at arguing things and is often very credulous towards believing stuff that happens to be convenient, but his general goals seem to be good and his heart appears to be in the right place (he kinda reminds me of the stuff I might have posted if I was in my early 20s in the current political climate). I don't feel that people like him are actually causing any harm (and if anything their energy might be beneficial), because anyone who is put off from leftism just because they saw a random person make a irrational internet post never would have been an ally to begin with. This is contrasted with someone like shrike82 (and I think also NFS and a couple others), who is clearly motivated more by antipathy towards Democrats/liberals than any real desire to help people. Those people make me more concerned, because I feel like they don't really have any deep ideological commitment to leftism and more just use it as an avenue by which to vent their anger at a certain type of person. I could see them easily being flipped to believing and supporting some nasty stuff if they felt it would "stick it to Hillary Clinton/Cory Booker/whatever" (and we kinda literally see this with the people who voted Trump).

*in the sense of thinking it's a real thing

Look, if we aren't on the same side then argument is inevitable and if we are on the same side then crappy posts should be called out in the spirit of goons everywhere. I'm here because I actually do have plenty of bones to pick with Party leadership. I've had plenty of arguments with the hillfolk as I guess they're now called. But guess what? People like me exist and will push back against being called centrist shills or whatever especially against those we perceive as not doing anything to oppose Trump. Your same reasoning could be used to ask why certain of the whiners here spend all their ire on Democrats with barely a word about the GOP horror show. But at the end of the day, people say what they say. IMO at some point trying to explain why someone on the internet does stuff is an elaborate exercise in fan fiction.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2017 06:54

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Kilroy posted:

(Note that I never actually threatened anyone directly, either.)

Actually you'll find I stopped short of committing an actual criminal act for the world to see while raging against my internet enemies... checkmate, centrists. :ironicat:

# ¿ Sep 18, 2017 07:00

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:49

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Sephyr posted:

I remember even making a post about it in the main thread a month or so before the election about how progressives were doomed (in the Democratic party) either way: If Hillary won, she would happily purge the party structure of anything (and anyone) resembling Bernie's politics and support. And if she lost, they would be the ones to carry the blame. But everyone was too busy hailing the inevitable coming of Dread Abuela.

No one can purge the Democratic Party like that even if they wanted to.

I find the persecution complex in this thread amusing though. These dead comedy forums, with their huge failson contingent somehow still got taken over by abuela.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2017 07:14

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