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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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XyrlocShammypants posted:What happened to people power to fund elections man, gotta get those birdies out there collecting money right. Why even rely on the dnc? do you even know what you're arguing for anymore beyond being mad people to your left exist
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Sep 5, 2017 19:54
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XyrlocShammypants posted:Answer the question. Why didn't a Bernie like structure raise money for these special elections if they thought they could be converted? Where was the progressive tide in replacing the likes of Price? Or the failing was only the DNC? they did. for example, in montana, Quist managed to come up with a couple million on the backs of progressives. for some reason, though the DNC decided that they'd prefer to dump five million on Ossoff, rather than spread the wealth. does that concern you, strategically particularly given their stated rationale: "we're worried Ossoff losing will be spun as a rejection of centrism."
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Sep 5, 2017 20:02
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Avirosb posted:Yes, that would be the DNC the progressives are trying and failing to take over, citing a lack of monetary funding. the group ostensibly tasked with winning more seats for democrats, refusing to back democrats, on the grounds that they're worried they won't be ideologically pure. fascinating stuff, eh, friends?
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Sep 5, 2017 20:05
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missouri. yes. xyrloc you might want to take a break here.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:33
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XyrlocShammypants posted:Advocate for violent revolution, stay and chat. Mix up two numbers, gotta go! :p you are repeatedly getting the most basic facts possible under discussion wrong, friend. maybe take a breather, come back when you've learned the first thing about the subjects of conversation?
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Sep 5, 2017 20:37
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the one that earlier you insisted did not exist, yes
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Sep 5, 2017 20:42
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Radish posted:I thought Democratic fundraising was basically the same, just that money was going to candidates instead of people donating to the DNC which is now fantastically unpopular. under normal circumstances i'd consider that Really Bad, as you kind of want someone coordinating what money goes where but given the phenomenal ability to learn from mistakes the DNC has demonstrated...
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Sep 6, 2017 15:25
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trump is an idiot. praise be.
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Sep 6, 2017 20:05
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when someone is helped, it's a win. for now? it was a good bit of prep work. you may recall counting chickens before they're hatched has bitten these same people pretty loving hard in the last twelve months.
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Sep 6, 2017 21:51
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Peachfart posted:An individual mandate is literally required for the ACA to work as written. The insurance market will collapse if it is repealed. Yup. Turns out putting his support behind the Baucus bill was really loving stupid who could have guessed
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Sep 7, 2017 18:58
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man's supremely pessimistic, and I don't blame him for it one bit move left on economics. take Lee Atwater's advice in reverse if it makes you feel a little better about it: if you're so sure that running against racism is a vote-loser, backfires, then start talking about increasing the minimum wage, expanding vote accessibility, and improving labor laws, and a happy side effect of all that is absent explicit cutouts to gently caress them over, blacks benefit more than whites.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:50
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Ardennes posted:Uh ......I deny the main thrust of the article? Whiteness doesn't explain everything going on. You don't have to be a Trump voter to see he was able to recruit substantial appeal due to his anti-trade/globalization stance. In the end, he has deceived those people. The problem is how do you actually move left enough in a way to get those people on your side. UHS is a step in a good direction, but I think there is a broader issue of wages and trade that is still largely unanswered (including by a GMI). TNC if anything uses a standard argument I have seen from many centrists, just in a more intelligent and well-written manner (most of the time it is hidden under a bunch of other garbage). you're suffering from a bit of egocentrism there; Coates is not writing from a perspective of "how do we change things so the left wins." he is writing from a perspective of "white supremacy is a massive, extant problem whose existence people deny, which deals massive damage to our national politics." about which, he is 100% right. and his assessment that people do not have a solution for that problem is also 100% accurate. that the left's best solution for the problem is "try to help poor people and don't carve things out such that black people see none of it this time" is uninspiring, from that perspective. however it does beat the proposals of the liberal center and the right, the words "ummm" and "lol" respectively.
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Sep 8, 2017 01:28
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last time they were implemented they were explictly designed to not help black people. he's got reason to be pessimistic. the solution here is to prove that pessimism was misplaced. the argument about whiteness explains an awful lot when you tie it in with the fact Hillary Clinton thought "Donald Trump Is Bad" was a sufficient rebuttal to "Donald Trump will kick out the mexicans, throw the blacks in jail, and get you your job back." trump had an argument that grabbed people by the wallet and by the heartstrings, and Hillary, under the impression that whiteness was just a heartstrings thing, could only bring herself to counterattack with "well you're a lovely person for saying that."
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Sep 8, 2017 01:45
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NewForumSoftware posted:thats the plot of both parties, i mean, if you want to lump all politicians in as American Conservatives i guess im ok with that did you ever get around to reading up on what Ronald Reagan did, incidentally educational stuff, to my mind
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Sep 11, 2017 17:42
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NewForumSoftware posted:obama was worse well, the thread at least needs one accelerationist moron during downtime, I suppose
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Sep 11, 2017 18:36
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in the category of legitimately good news https://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/sen-booker-co-sponsoring-bernie-sanders-medicare-bill/ noted spineless corporate whore Cory Booker has grasped that maybe-just-maybe publicly opposing the concept of improved health care for americans is a stupid idea slowly, painfully, one step at a time, they are learning
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Sep 11, 2017 18:38
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Probably not. oh, don't think for a moment that he'll actually support it if there was a chance it would go through, the man has Property of Pfizer Incorporated branded on his rear end. but that even he can grasp the idea "publicly opposing this is a bad idea for democrats right now" is a genuinely encouraging baby step
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Sep 11, 2017 18:47
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Why is this encouraging? Democrats have been floating popular poo poo with no intention of passing it or otherwise intentionally perverting it for decades. This is more of the same. remember "single payer will never, ever happen" that is why this is encouraging the overwhelming majority of politicians are spineless cowards. that the highest-profile, most bought-and-paid-for corporate democrats are capable of acknowledging it's too dangerous to publicly oppose anymore is great news. because it means that they can ultimately be browbeaten into supporting the genuine article. it is not success, and it will not be success until the drat thing finally passes, but it is a baby step down a road they've spent years aggressively denying even existed.
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Sep 11, 2017 18:59
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NewForumSoftware posted:no it means when you're part of the opposition and have no chance of passing anything you can sponsor whatever the hell you want that's why Cory Booker doing it is encouraging. this is the guy who in that same zero-consequences environment shut down a bill to import cheaper drugs from Canada on grounds that, uh, ~safety concerns~. that someone so deeply in pharma's pocket was capable of conceding he has to at least publicly support socializing american medicine shows that Team Corporate Dem is, genuinely, feeling the pressure to not do that poo poo anymore. it's a baby step. but it's a step.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:02
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NewForumSoftware posted:centrists becoming more effective politicians is a bad thing, not a good thing that you find the idea of people being obliged by public pressure to support your policies a bad sign is painfully illuminating
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Sep 11, 2017 19:05
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call to action posted:There's no credible position to take BUT MFA at this point. What are Booker or Harris going to do in the face of a Hillary loss - try to sell Obamacare, precisely when it's clear that it's not going to control premiums in any meaningful way and most people already hate it? Why would they fall on that sword? great question. but I can tell you that up until now, that's exactly what they were doing. quote:This is pure strategic triangulation taken by a party that literally cannot do anything. indeed. centrists are not good. but they have this saving grace: they are controllable. this is pure strategic triangulation to what they see as the safest thing to do. so when you change what the safest thing to do is, you drag the centrists towards you. they are large, heavy, stupid, and will actively fight the process. but you can get them to support leftist policy, if only out of terror of what will happen if they don't.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:09
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NewForumSoftware posted:ahh yes people can change and maybe Corey Booker will become the leader the left actually needs ahh, yes, and furthermore;
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Sep 11, 2017 19:09
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Inescapable Duck posted:It's entirely reasonable to be suspect of fair-weather friends given you know they will abandon you the moment they see it as slightly convenient. absolutely. fact remains that when the fair-weather friends start moving in your direction, that's not a bad sign.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:11
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NewForumSoftware posted:[citation needed] american history from the years 1940-1970
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Sep 11, 2017 19:13
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:They're just keeping their enemies closer. ain't nobody asking you to mistake them for friends. you don't call the mercury in a thermometer your friend after it finally moves up from below freezing, but it's still an encouraging sign after a long loving winter.
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Sep 11, 2017 19:24
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yes, I was making this point a few pages ago, but was asked for clarification. I'd argue there are a handful. In white-flight suburbs populated by would-be technocrats, the kind of people who are a single missed xanax refill or bad day for their retirement portfolio away from signing onto exterminating all the browner peoples of the earth, the Ossoffs of the world have a place. There, and there alone, it's better to put up a milquetoast centrist who can theoretically win with paeans to the Market, Blessed and Eternal Be Its Name, if only as an exercise in harm reduction. They're not going to win often, and it's a mistake to dump a ton of resources into that hope, but when they do, its a marginal improvement to have Raytheon Acres represented by someone who signs onto the concept of governance rather than someone who doesn't.
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Sep 11, 2017 23:55
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Politely disagree. The problem here is that then your party very obviously stands for nothing. People see this, and the trust falls. back in the good ol' days of bribery-based bipartisanship the schtick was a little easier to pull off, that I'll grant you
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Sep 12, 2017 01:54
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Calibanibal posted:More Female Pork Barrels it's one of the funnier stories of why red-state infrastructure is so terminally hosed when infrastructure spending is how you buy minority party votes, and you've been the majority party for twenty years now, awful lotta bridges not getting repaired and then came The Sequester, and with it the death of any incentive towards bipartisanship, at all, not that it stopped the Third Way from pretending
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Sep 12, 2017 02:05
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in fairness that is literally just some random fan of hillary's a particularly, hilariously noxious one, to be sure, but you might as well go diving into trump's replies twitter to explain why he's bad
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Sep 12, 2017 21:15
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I know nothing of Neera Tanden, should I? on top of what's been said before: she is a laughably terrible liar like, she was taped doing all the things above, and has repeatedly claimed not to have done them. when presented with the video evidence of her doing them, the traditional response is to block the people in question. she's kind of exhibit A for the Clintons rewarding loyalty over competence, woman can't even lie about her past worth a drat.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:55
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Wait, is she the one that thought the corncob meme was about rape, and got all upset at twitter people calling her a corncob? nah, that started with mr. What is "binch"? What is to be "corncobbed?". she was certainly one of the people who tried to popularize that angle, though.
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Sep 12, 2017 22:58
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white sauce posted:Hahaha gentlemans agreement wtf you know that Isaac Newton saying about "if I see far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants" a centrist is someone who, from atop the shoulders of giants, collapses into the fetal position and starts sobbing "OH GOD WHAT IF I FALL"
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Sep 13, 2017 16:05
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Lightning Knight posted:Like, if Democrats aren't going to be a proper left-labor party they need to at least stand hard and fast against overt fascism, which is what Republicans are now. If they can't stand for the poor and disenfranchised on top of not creating positive legislation then they're worse than useless. Ze Pollack posted:centrist dems make a lot more sense once you realize their politics are entirely divorced from outcomes. it's just blind veneration of The Process, the blind idiot god of comfortable cowards. the system produced me, therefore the system must be preserved until the end of time. the Hillary Clintons, Cory Bookers, and Andrew Cuomos of the world have no issue with fascism, as long as it at least claims to respect the Process. the only important thing to them is that the system endure. this has, as an interesting corollary, McCloud's delightfully moronic proclamation: if voters stop supporting the system, because of some pesky trivialities like "it's immiserating and killing us," the solution is to make voters more okay with the system destroying them. the centrists will hem and haww over how fascist silencing of the people is uncomfortably ~activist~ in nature, but once you can give them a set of reports to file on how many people are headed to the camps this week they'll be happy as a clam. the alternative is to make a change to the system, and if you change the system, the centrists might not remain on top. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Sep 13, 2017 |
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Sep 13, 2017 16:19
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Lightning Knight posted:Now see, it's not that I somehow do not understand this. It's just that my experience has been that of someone from a mixed face family living in a Republican district of an increasingly Republican state. no disagreement. but if you expect centrist democrats to protect you from these people, as white sauce demonstrates, hoo loving boy do you have another thing coming.
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Sep 13, 2017 17:17
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even in Bernie's case, guy's very clearly willing to make his compromises on the regions he doesn't care about, noteworthy among which the vast majority of foreign policy and the military. wave hello, Vermont's little piece of the F-35 pie! in the universe where He Won (as He Would Have) he still touches the Orb, he probably launches the same perfunctory airstrikes on Syria, and we still launch a mini-surge in Afghanistan.
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Sep 13, 2017 17:42
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Calibanibal posted:yeah hillary's garbage book basically thrust the civil war right back to the surface it will fade in time. she does persist in being astonishingly bad at misjudging the national mood/how to time things.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:16
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