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Transistor Rhythm posted:. I am a 39 year old professional man reading this poo poo in his office because I can’t wait. Are you... me but a few months older??? Anyway, I'm a Claremont-era X-Nerd who has only passingly followed everything since the early 90s. The last regular floppy issues of ANY comics I've bought was the first few months of Fraction's not-great X-run. But Hickman on these books was too much to resist waiting for trade/Unlimited so I jumped and... Listen, what he does in HoX #2 is the single best retcon in comics history and probably the biggest idea in the X-Books since DOFP. I haven't been this excited about a stupid loving superhero book since I was like 10. Excited enough to talk about it with Goons. Barry Convex posted:I hope there's an explanation for why Moira seemingly had foreknowledge of the Genoshan genocide, Decimation, etc, at least from her fourth life, but didn't do anything to prevent them. Though based on that one text page in the first issue and the lack of acknowledgment of it in this issue, it feels like Hickman has chosen to ignore that Decimation ever happened, but we'll see This is a big thing for me. The Marvel Universe Multi-Verse basically says every timeline exists. So just because Moira dies and restarts herself, doesn't that mean that world she left is still there? She's basically making billions suffer in an attempt to get a "perfect" universe for mutants and humans. It's kinda hosed up. That said, I love in general that Hickman has finally added another voice to the Xavier/Magneto/Apocalypse theories of mutant-human relations. And it's also especially cool that she is going to be significantly more knowledgeable about them. Anyway, this poo poo loving rules.
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Aug 9, 2019 15:09
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Fangz posted:I think you've got it wrong. The way the MCU multiverse works is that every decision, every what-if creates a new universe. So Moira unintentionally creating a new universe where sentinels wipes out everyone isn't morally worse than someone choosing a chocolate over a vanilla ice cream and that universe ending up with sentinels wiping out everyone. The difference here is that Moira's creating timelines that couldn't possibly have otherwise existed, like ones where Xavier has foreknowledge of everything. And if, as Moira seems to think, in general sentinels will arise and kill everybody, ensuring there's at least one universe in existence where that doesn't happen is a net positive. Yeah, but... Assuming she knows how alt-realities work in the Marvel way, then purposely creating realities where she has no guarantee that her methods will work is going to cause up to 10x as much death and destruction than the one world she manages to keep peaceful. And in some cases, she's ACTIVELY choosing genocide. That's... not great! Simply: the most generally ethical thing she could have done is kill herself as a pre-teen after Destiny described how her powers work so that her death stopped creating new Hellworlds. Because there's no accounting you can do where getting it right is worth getting it wrong so many times. I guess there's also the question whether she KNOWS she's creating alternate worlds but... she HAS to have come to that conclusion, right? It'd be weird for her to think entire existences go away just because of her death. This is some Good Place-level morality that Hickman and Co. are tossing on us.
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Aug 9, 2019 18:29
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Fangz posted:Well, it depends on how your comics utilitarian calculus works out, how much it counts as her fault and so on. She does have the reassurance that Destiny doesn't stop her at any point, though it depends on whether you think Destiny is a good judge of her choices or not. Honestly, just theories like the last one you proposed are making this the best loving series. I never even considered that...
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Aug 9, 2019 18:54
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I told you, I'm new here and just following protocol I saw. Anyway, the Xavier at the beginning of HoX is clearly actually Sinister. When its mentioned in PoX that there was a period of "leaderless" mutantdom, that's in reference to the last few years of the books when Xavier, Scott, Jean, and Logan were all dead. Someone (Beast? It's always loving Beast) made a deal with Sinister to start cloning. So the Jean, Logan, etc. you see in HoX are Sinister's clones. All of the Krakoa stuff is Sinister. Or at least that was my thought until the Moira Bomb hit.
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Aug 9, 2019 20:06
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Aphrodite posted:Mostly. He has both Quire and Jean as telepaths. https://io9.gizmodo.com/house-of-x-just-made-marvels-omega-level-mutants-intere-1836679454 i09's summary is how I interpreted it: it's not necessarily "the most powerful" but someone without a theoretical "upper limit." Quire and Jean both are uncapped in their telepathic power. Either Xavier isn't or, y'know, Xavier isn't actually around... In his Forge example, he specifically states that Forge's powers can theoretically be surpassed. This ties into something Hickman is more pronouncely stating than a lot of writers haven't before: in the mutant vs. human conflict, humans will only be able to compete via technology. The Sentinals are the obvious first step but they could make an AI that surpasses Forge's power. That's why Omegas are so important to mutantkind: they're the few people that humans can't replicate via technology.
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Aug 9, 2019 23:16
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Aphrodite posted:Yeah but has Jean ever been able to use the focused totality of her telekinetic powers to make a knife? ... while thinking and/or saying exactly that.
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Aug 9, 2019 23:28
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Skwirl posted:Aside from the last issue of Rosenberg's Uncanny are there examples of no Phoenix Jean doing really amazing TK tricks Yeah but again, the now-canon definition isn't "really powerful" it is that they don't have an upper limit.
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Aug 10, 2019 01:14
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Not nearly glam enough to be Sinister Ummmmmmmmm https://images.app.goo.gl/1K1z7kmgCf3psd7S6
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Aug 10, 2019 03:50
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Nodosaur posted:I'm by and large enjoying this new run, but I have to say, I'm a bit concerned. My biggest problem with X-Men stories is how often the non-mutant characters get framed as in the wrong for being concerned about something the X-Men have put their support behind, and the deal with them and the FF has me nervous. Sue has a mutant son and I don't think framing her as not getting what mutants have to deal with is really true to the character, and given the character they argue with Scott about is an infamous monster like Sabertooth, it just has me a bit wary that Hickman is gonna slip into that same trap. I'm looking at it the opposite way. I think they've very much established that the Krakoa thing is to be looked at skeptically. They're framing the story as questioning the mutants' actions, to the point where humans creating super-weapons in retaliation almost comes off as justified. I definitely read that FF scene as the humans being framed in the moral right, not the other way around.
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Aug 10, 2019 15:47
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Roth posted:The cheapest way is to get Marvel Unlimited and follow a reading order. This. You can start with Giant Sized and #94 and just continue from there. You don't start getting into inter-book crossovers until after #200. And even those are pretty easily followed with just a few interconnecting books. Also, this was the period where not only was stuff recapped via dialogue constantly but editor notes where to find what was referenced were in every issue.
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Aug 11, 2019 23:34
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Open Marriage Night posted:Some “Brand Ambassador” for a cigarette company That's a hell of a job in 2019.
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Aug 12, 2019 11:40
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Blockhouse posted:That's what we've been watching all along. Is it? VI is missing for a reason. And the scenes with young Moira and Xavier at the RenFair tell a very different story than what has been told before. Assuming the X timeline is 616 means that 616 Xavier knew about Moira's lives for years and hid it from everyone, etc. (ugh, another Xavier secret). I don't think it's crazy to assume that what's presented in HoXPoX isn't 616. Maybe VI is; Maybe that's the Moira-dies-after-curing-Legacy timeline and X is where she fakes her death in that situation because she's learned from it.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:24
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Blockhouse posted:Seems like a real bad idea to restore a franchise to promenience within your fictional shared universe if you're not actually setting the flagship book in said universe? I'm not suggesting that they're relaunching X-books entirely in a new universe permanently. Just that what we've seen so far may not be the one we expect. People still talk about the Thunderbolts swerve; Think that only, y'know, bigger. Again, this is obviously massive speculation, but god it's fun to do that with a comic book again...
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Aug 12, 2019 22:46
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kustomkarkommando posted:I'm also assuming editorial gave him clearance to go aboslutely hog wild as well to entice him back (especially if stories about the deal he had planned with DC where true). Jordan D White was on the BOTA podcast recently and stated that Hickman came to them with his pitch, not the other way around. But I'm sure pitches from Hickman get treated differently than other people. kustomkarkommando posted:I mean we just had a big alternate reality event - two back to back would seem ill advised. Somewhat agree. If this were just another AoA/alt-universe thing, it'd be disappointing. But I trust the writer enough that even if it is, it will be unique and well-executed.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:04
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Abroham Lincoln posted:Hulk, too. I'm not sure where things will be after Immortal, but yeah, it's pretty much established that the Hulk is pretty much, y'know, immortal when it comes to regeneration.
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Aug 14, 2019 01:12
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Wanderer posted:Yeah, he's said before that the reasoning behind shuffling Scott off to Alaska, and why the original ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga was to have Scott and Jean retire together, was that he thought the characters needed to gracefully retire and let younger characters take the reins. If he'd had his way, the New Mutants would've been wave one of a steady cycle of protagonists who'd come to the fore, then move out. The naivity of a young Claremont... I'm still convinced these time periods aren't all the same universe/MoiraLife. There was a theory getting passed around Twitter that specially calls out some good evidence that at least one of them matches up with a MoiraLife that isn't X, which is what I think everyone is generally assuming is what we're seeing. BrianWilly posted:I am still a bit concerned about the more human elements being sidelined, or at least not really highlighted, by all the big poo poo happening, which is absolutely a danger with Hickman. I've been a Hickman fanboy since The Nightly News. He's the obvious heir apparent to Ellis' break-poo poo-with-the-biggest-ideas-you-can style of writing and world-building. I think he has the capacity to do deeper human elements (EoW might be the best example) but... that's really not his thing. That's part of the reason why I'm so onboard with all of this: Marvel is letting him do his biggest-idea-he-can thing to set the table and then- as far as I can tell- oversee the big ideas for a while. It sounds like he's going to operate as a sort of "show runner" with Dawn of X, which I think is a unique way for a Big 2 to handle a property like this. And I don't know I'd trust anyone other than Hickman to do it well.
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Aug 15, 2019 03:40
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CubanMissile posted:Did they tell Morrison they would have his back after his changes in New X-men or did he just write the story he wanted to write and then crossed his fingers that it all wouldn't get retconned to poo poo? Maybe they looked at the end of his run and thought "huh, this kinda loving sucked." HOT TAKE: The best part of Morrison's run was all the stuff with the kids and Jason Aaron took those ideas- and more- and did them better in Wolvie and the X-Men. Though I'm still annoyed that they hosed over Beak so much.
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Aug 15, 2019 03:58
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Web Jew.0 posted:Was the Moira reveal more important than all the stuff revealed in PoX1? The hype Hickman and Marvel threw at the Moira reveal was literally "the most important moment in Marvel history." Nothing can live up to that, but given what it gives them to play with, it isn't far off. So yeah, that's how I interpreted the red: those are the big reveal issues. Because I am thinking about this so much... I don't have a copy of HoX #2 in front of me, but the "Moira MacTaggert: Trask Hunter" life was... IV? V? Either way, early in her reincarnation cycle, the "lesson" she learned was that the machine rise was inevitable. If that's the case, then shouldn't she- and Chuck and Mags- know that the attack on Mother Mold is rather pointless? And in retrospect, maybe that means that the "break the rules" decision isn't a revelation on how to stop the machine rise, but how to integrate with it. Which, of course, brings us back to X^3, where the Librarian (who very well could be Moira in the far future of IX, X, or XI... or VI!) is welcoming Ascension with the machine-based Phalanx. Of course, the thing that Scott needs to do may not be an attack at all... or at least not with the end goal of destroying Mother Mold. But that machine-society-integration seems directly contradictory with the Krakoa-nature-integration that House of X is supposed to be setting up. Jesus loving Christ, Hickman...
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Aug 15, 2019 13:29
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Teenage Fansub posted:Byrne salt. You'd think someone who has (had?) a long career writing comics would be able to read them. HoX #2 directly explains Moira's ability to change things via being "passive" or not. Also, his comment about graphs- a visual representation of information- not being acceptable in comics is loving dumb because 1) comics are literally based on visual representations of information and 2) comics have been using timeline graphs for expository reasons since prior to Byrne's career.
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Aug 15, 2019 15:17
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There's only a couple of the AoXM books on Unlimited right now but they seem fun. What wasn't fun was UXM #11, which was a 60 page slog of the worst kind. I didn't hate the UXM book prior to that- though it was extremely overstuffed and certain parts (I still don't understand what Jaime Madrox was doing) were outright confusing- but #11 was one of the worst things I've read in a long-rear end time and I don't understand how they "relaunched" with that book after Red was so loving good.
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Aug 16, 2019 12:54
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Billzasilver posted:I almost never read x-men comics except x-force, but these past 4 issues have been really fun. I hope every dumb backstory page with nothing but text can become its own spinoff series afterwards. YOU ASKED. So my current theory (IT WILL CHANGE AFTER THE NEXT ISSUE): Each of the timelines shown in PoX is also from a different Moira Life. X^0 - Moira XI. I think we're seeing the "last" beginning to the X-Men and is setting the scene for the Dawn of X titles coming out after these series end. X^1 - Moira VI. This is the big swerve. This timeline was hidden. We're going to see how it all goes tits-up in real time. X^2 - Moira IX. There's a good twitter thread explaining this one. But this is the Age of Apocalypse-esque life, 100 years in the future. X^3 - Moira X. Moira's the Librarian. This is essentially her "win" scenario, where she "breaks the rules." She beats the humans, enacts the plan to merge with the Phalanx, etc. But again, I think this goes not-as-expected. Hence Life XI. BrianWilly posted:On another note...while I'll rag on the human element of Hickman's writing, I still gotta say that his take on almost every character he's written so far has been so worthwhile. For instance, the scene with Xavier, Magneto, and Cyclops all together -- pretty much the three most prominent leaders of mutantkind -- working in tandem to get things done? That's the good poo poo I wanna be reading. I think he's better at this than his reputation, maybe because it wasn't on-point with his Avengers work (which has moments like the hot dog thing). But his FF work... Man, that post-Johnny issue is tear-jerking. His creator-owned stuff works really well. I personally think The Black Monday Murders is his best work to date but this X-Men poo poo is hitting everything out of the park.
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Aug 17, 2019 02:28
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CubanMissile posted:I had assumed that was Magneto in year one hundred. Wasn't expecting him to be a Lorna Dane x Emma Frost chimera. It was probably a fake out to make people not suspect that this was Moira's ninth life since the timeline in House of X #2 said Magneto died pretty early on in that one. The now confirmed theory about that life that was floating around last week called this as well. Anyone else drawing significance on which direction the timelines in the Moira lives graph go? Three, Eight, and Ten all go over the circle at age 13; The others below. I can't find any obvious connection between Three and Eight...
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Aug 21, 2019 18:16
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Billzasilver posted:I went back to PoX #2 to check, and the cyclops suicide attack on the sun is meant to prevent a Nimrod. Meaning the ten years timeline is definitely the tenth life, and we’ll see what crazy information Moira received here. Maybe all four timelines are from different lives. My theory is up above but I definitely feel like each time period is a different life. And VI is one of them!
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Aug 21, 2019 23:38
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Synthbuttrange posted:Has anyone tried to match up these timelines with Hickman's Avengers timeline? In today's issue, there's some references to those things. But assuming X^1 is "current" time, then it takes place some indeterminate time after Avengers World/Secret Wars/Birth of Multiverse 8.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:28
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Open Marriage Night posted:They’ll convert Moira into a machine or into pure data so that she can’t reset the timeline they’ve been fighting so hard for. Moira has to survive somehow or else the prime Marvel Universe is going to be one where she died before her powers manifested. Ohh, I like this. Maybe Moira isn't the Librarian but the Librarian uses Moira's memories/lives as a path to Ascension... EDIT: Though I still don't know about that "resetting the prime universe" thing. This implies that when Moira dies, that universe ends. But that's not how things work in the Marvel Universe and it's also a silly to think that Marvel isn't going to further explore those universes at a later time. I think her death doesn't "reset" things as much as it creates a What If?-like alternate universe branch. Which brings up the idea that Moira is at times literally murdering billions of in different universes just to get "the right" history, which is kinda hosed. danbanana fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 12:49
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Nevvy Z posted:Ok but do we know that she is still Moira at that point? Because she was reincarnated as such? The end of HoX #2 ends with her waking up in Life X, which is right after Wolverine kills her in PoX #3.
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Aug 23, 2019 16:20
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poo poo is getting crowded.
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Aug 24, 2019 02:38
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Cabbit posted:Why do I have this vague recollection of Gambit supposedly living until the end of time in some X-book or another? He was the old guy that Bishop was talking to to figure out who the X-Traitor was. That was like 50 years in the future.
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Aug 24, 2019 03:32
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Ewing is going to just keep adding Cosmoses (Cosmi?) as long as Marvel let's him write books. "The 24th Multiverse is... Moon Knight's eyebrows!"
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Aug 26, 2019 13:22
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Diet Poison posted:So... Hickman keeps saying "fauna" when he clearly means "flora" right? I mean, Krakoa is an animal, not a plant, right? ANIMAL SEEDS. I was thinking that X^1 Xavier wasn't really Xavier- something I'm still about 50% in on- but after reading how ready he and Mags are to let Scott's troop die, I think there's a different explanation: since they know Moira is going to die and be reborn, they've adopted her "gently caress it, whatever it takes!" perspective. Soldiers are worth even less when you know they'll be back, right? So if- IF- this is Moira X's life, it does lend credence to Life XI coming up, maybe the X^0 time period.
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Aug 29, 2019 03:05
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Jiro posted:I mean Charles powers are being the most powerful telepath anywhere Canonically this is not true anymore, if it was ever. Jean and Quire are listed as Omega telepaths in HoX #1; No Chuck anywhere to be seen. I think at least part of Hickman's logic with this is that Xavier needed Cerebro to enhance his powers and therefore can't be an Omega by (his new) definition.
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Aug 29, 2019 13:57
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ImpAtom posted:I wasn't too sure about Hickman's run but now I kind of want to read it. What's the reading order so far? House of X 1 Powers of X 1 HOX 2 POX 2 POX 3 HOX 3 It alternates except for the the last two issues.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:44
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Saoshyant posted:If that's true, then Hickman is not doing a good job of distinguishing between X and the Maker. Everywhere I go online where people are discussing this run there's always some claiming X is the Maker. If it's setting up a fake out, then it's a very weird thing to set a fake out on. It's far too obvious to be the Maker. If it's anyone not Xavier, I'm betting it's Sinister, who is on the cover of PoX #5 in an area that looks a little too much like the birthing pod place. That would certainly explain a lot of things...
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Aug 31, 2019 12:12
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THIS THREAD: I don't find it realistic that a mask could hide anyone's identity! ALSO THIS THREAD: So Magneto uses his powers to rip all of the Adamantium out of Wolverine's body but it turns out his claws weren't given to him in the Weapon X procedure but were there all along and now he just has BONE CLAWS.
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Sep 1, 2019 12:54
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Still convinced the opening HoX 1 scene is a red-herring and that what this issue shows is not what we think. The Mother Mold's little soliloquy as it drops into the implies to me that this didn't stop anything. The machine rise is still happening, just not with this particular Mold. And yes, it might mitigate the problem but that's not exactly what someone saying "NO MORE" would find acceptable right? That's a lot of A-list deaths just to delay, or have a "lesser" man-machine supremacy come about. If this is the culmination of Moira's nine previous lives then she loving sucks at it, yo. So I'm still of the mind that this is Life VI, or that Moira's "final" plan hatches in Life XI after this boondoggle.
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Sep 4, 2019 18:01
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Billzasilver posted:If Xavier already has the rebirthing pods ready to go, why was he crying and screaming so much at the end? Right? Seems like an overreaction for someone who can Dr. Venture some more Logans whenever he needs to...
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Sep 4, 2019 20:33
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Skwirl posted:This is definitely Moira life 6 then. Trying a perfect utopian co-existence then going assassin, then Magneto "We're Here, We're Mutants, Go gently caress Yourself", then Apocalypse and his, well, apocalypse. And then you try and break everything, which I think will be the new books after all this. Yeah this is still my theory: we're seeing VI, not X. It also potentially explains a lot of the characterizations, particularly Jean. But something with her is weird in general. Remember the "Welcome home, Jean" creepy poo poo in HoX 1? BrianWilly posted:3) Speaking of metatext, it makes utterly no sense that there's no mention of the Inhumans or the M-Pox at all. I guess that it doesn't fit neatly into the whole "Look how much they hate us" angle Hickman is trying to play out with these mutant genocide events, but the idea of this run just flat-out ignoring the Terrigen plague is insane considering how big a deal it was (it killed Cyclops for pete's sake!). What's more, wasn't it Hickman himself who originally had Black Bolt unleash the mists onto the planet? It feels, honestly, a little cowardly for him to not have to deal with its implications at this time, in this run where he's diving deep into almost everything else that ever even happened to the X-Men. Pretending all of the Inhumans poo poo didn't happen is probably for the best, right? The events reviewed in this issue are specifically things humans did to mutants so it makes sense why M-Pox wasn't on there. This isn't about everything that happened to mutants; It's about what has been done to them by humanity. Hickman has set everything up as a mutants vs. man-machine conflict here. Also, it's not terribly fair to assigning blame to him as the person writing an event with corporate-mandated plot points.
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Sep 5, 2019 00:44
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Alaois posted:Nathan& Cable It's based on a real t-shirt you can buy!
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Sep 5, 2019 01:11
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radlum posted:
He purposely released them because of reasons involving Thanos' son who I bet you didn't even remember until I mentioned him. Infinity was a weird loving thing where you could easily see what part was Hickman's story and what stupid poo poo was forced on him by the guy Trump has put in charge of sick veterans.
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Sep 5, 2019 04:10
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Yeah, it's very explicit how many die in E is for Extinction and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Morrison's run. Committing a Holocaust-like event on a metaphor group like mutants should be the only thing that gets mentioned for about five years in that book. Instead, Morrison jumps to telling stories about high school kids getting detention and convoluted plots about Magneto pretending to have a black hole brain. Part of his argument was that it made being a mutant more unique, as if having another 1M or 17M mutants makes a difference when we can only really follow/catalog a few hundred. Compare that to how universe-wide the No More Mutants thing was pushed, how dramatic Mutant Massacre was, or even how terrible something like the (very problematic) Legacy Virus was treated. Sixteen million mutants dead? Whatevs.
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Sep 5, 2019 12:44
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