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Rochallor posted:Man I didn't remember that at all. I'm guessing that's largely because, as you said, it's not actually treated with any kind of gravity in continuity. The most fallout I can think of from that story is Kitty's dad dying on Genosha and whatever Necrosha was. Oh, and Emma Frost shutting Tony Stark the hell down. It wasn't handled well. A lot of people talk about how Marvel just ignored Morrison's run after he left but I really think it's because they saw some of his major actions as being handled superficially after the book(s) spent decades making sure everything mattered. Everything Claremont setup was about overwrought drama, and then Morrison does the (theoretically) most dramatic thing you can do to the characters and he pretty much ignores it. He has Magneto go crazy and commit another genocide. He rewrites everything about the Phoenix. He has Scott develop a telepath fetish. There were all these big character changes that seemed to come completely out of left-field. And then people wonder why Marvel was like "well... let's just write around that poo poo!" I think this is a concern for Hickman's run, too, considering he hasn't always followed established characterization to a tee. But this week's issue is further establishing that at least he's very much emphasizing the basic premise of the X-folks: trying to survive a world that is literally trying to constantly kill them with giant loving robots. Morrison did that in the first 3 issues and then promptly decided to do his own thing.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:35
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BrianWilly posted:And this part I'll just flat-out disagree with entirely. He was just about the only writer around who tried to bridge the chasm between Claremont's original vision of Phoenix being an expression of Jean's powers, and the subsequent retcon of it being some unknowable cosmic force. And even then, some of the work had already been done before he got on; the late nineties were all about Jean exploring the true breadths of her powers and it always, always, zero exceptions, featured her displaying some sort of Phoenix powers. Claremont himself wrote some of those instances, Morrison was -- if anything -- simply following up on where they left off. "So a phoenix is a bird, right? So wha'if it... lays an hegg?" I admit that Morrison has done like 3 things in his career that I find interesting at all, so I'm definitely biased. But I don't get the lasting love for New X-Men, whose main contributions are some dope-rear end Quitely work and Quentin Quire. That poo poo was all over the place and there is zero rationale to killing 16 million people in the first couple of issues because there's very little reckoning about that later.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:36
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Jim the Nickel posted:It's Glob Ok, that's another thing Morrison did right. Though like Quire, other writers have done better work with them...
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Sep 5, 2019 18:24
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Parallax posted:think i mentioned this before, but reading through claremont's run there's a bit after jean's death where scott mentions difficulty communicating with a woman he likes because jean could always just read his mind and know what he actually meant. so nah, i think scott cheating on a telepath with another telepath who's more willing to delve deeper inside him is consistent with his established character Dawgstar posted:He also had that weird sorta crush on Psylocke for a while, but I don't believe it ever went anywhere. These are both good points so I'll retract that from my comment. I could argue that Scott left Maddy AND THEIR BABY for Jean, so it seems weird that he'd leave Jean for Emma but maybe that does fit his M.O...
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Sep 5, 2019 19:54
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It astonishes me that writers keep making Magneto a standard super villain. I'm not sure what writers think "y'know what's a good idea? Let's make this complex character more one dimensional!" One of the things I'm hoping that comes out of all this is Moira as a fourth "mutant leader" along with Chuck, Mags, and Apocalypse. It'll be nice to see a new perspective- and a female one at that- instead of having writers mash their stories around what should be established character morals. Side note: why the gently caress wasn't Magneto with the strike team on the Mother Mold? That seems an obvious job for him...
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Sep 5, 2019 22:40
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Android Blues posted:I think Morrison's take, for me, descends below the various 90s "uh oh, Magneto is a bad guy again!" stories in that it makes specific allusions to Nazi Germany and casts Magneto, a Holocaust survivor, as Hitler. Like, he's marching humans into giant ovens and writing articles about how humans are incapable of feeling pain. Also doing Mengele-style torture experiments on humans, according to Toad. It's just a lot. Yeah, this is the problem with it. Not only was turning Mags into a cliched super villain not the best- or most original- but that poo poo with the giant ovens is extremely problematic in ways that even crucifying Xavier can't touch. This poo poo was gross. One thing I got from this latest issue is that... it didn't seem like anymore of a "suicide mission" than about 400 other X-Men missions. How many times have they infiltrated a place and just loving wrecked poo poo? I understand that for story-telling purposes, this had to be harder or whatever but it still seemed a little weird. Billzasilver posted:My favorite laugh was when Wolverine finished his bit and he left about 10 corpses. Nightcrawler finishes his bit in the next panel and leaves two guys tied up. This was fantastic, though. Strange Poon posted:To come back to Magneto, I get the feeling Hickman isn't trying to reform Magento either but has a different take on him than Grant. The series so far has made me more sympathetic to Mageneto's extremism and I can say for the first time that, even though I think Apocalypse is a villain, I can kind of understand why he's doing what he's doing. Much like Moira, re-living these experiences over and over can radicalize you. And it seems- assuming certain things about the HoX story we're seeing- to have radicalized Xavier. "No more" is a pretty hardcore statement when it comes to all of this. How much of that radicalization is exposure to Moira? How much is it just from this Xavier's personal experience? What Hickman and Co. have managed to do is reinvigorate these discussions again, even though all of us have probably had them 100 times in our lives. After the death of Rahne fallout, I legitimately wondered what purpose the X-Men have anymore. If representation of marginalized characters increases- as it should- then why do we need fictional characters meant to take their place? What's the point of having characters that POCs, LBGTQ+, etc. "relate" to when really we should just have more characters directly representing those groups. But these books have done a good job of reframing all of this. Hickman is obviously relying on the Jewish experience as a guide for his interpretation (Mags in Jerusalum in HoX 1 was not a subtle thing; nor is Krakoa's obvious Israel comparison), but focusing on the inevitability of oppression is pretty unique. That in itself is a good metaphor for mutantdom: if they're meant to represent any or all marginalized groups, then there will always be someone under the boot.
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Sep 6, 2019 13:16
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Kingtheninja posted:I have to say I think Paul Smith might be my favorite penciler during Claremonts run. He uses a lot of thin lines and really leaves a lot of open space for vibrant solid colors. His covers for 167 and 168 are some of my favorite simply because they have large chunks of color popping through (I think it works best with wolverines brown and gold costume). People talked a lot of poo poo about the quality of the Essentials collections- reprinting on newsprint isn't going to be best for reproductions- but I loved the B&W presentation to see what the art without the 70s/80s quality color reproduction. Smith and BWS' work in those periods are obscenely good. Too bad I was lax in buying them and now some of the later editions go for obscene amounts of money...
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Sep 9, 2019 17:19
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Skwirl posted:Yes,she kills all Trasks in her seventh life ,but realizes sentenals are inevitable so she tries something else. This was part of my "evidence" for X^1 being VI. But I think I'm reading her "inevitable" comment wrong. I think it specifically refers to the general idea of humanity using robots to kill mutants. Killing the Trasks just meant another group developed the kill-bots. I don't necessarily think she meant the man-machine supremacy was inevitable. That's how I read it the first time but now I think I was wrong. Maybe X^1 Xavier doesn't know about the resurrection pods yet? Maybe that's why he's so upset? Maybe Sinister- it's gotta be Sinister right?- shows up (via Moira?) after this and says, "Here, here's your army back!" I think Moira's comment about changing the rules could certainly mean making mutants functionally immortal via rebirth pods is her solution? I'm still on-board with X^1 = VI, though. And X^3 is X. And X^0 is XI.
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Sep 11, 2019 02:06
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Strange Poon posted:The question that's been sitting on my mind since Moira's reveal is what happens when Moira dies a final death? Everything just resets, right? Mutants go back to being wholesale slaughtered and oppressed just sans Moira. Do they have to cure Moira before she dies? Does she have some kind of plan for when she dies what could be her final death? I'm still assuming that the worlds exist after Moira's death. So Life I played out a certain way and is still theoretically going as Universe 54,312 or whatever. I think it'd be weird if the universe died with her. SO because of that, I'm of the opinion that doing anything other than committing suicide prior to her power manifestation is ethically wrong because she's leaving worlds to die just so she can create a "good" one for mutants. But I think knowing that the world does continue beyond her, her goal is to create the "good" world then she can die and... I dunno? She can do the whole kill-yourself-before-powers-show-up but then all she's doing is creating another poo poo world! Honestly, the more you think about it the less good idea her plan is but if all you care about is the 616 or whatever, then hopefully her plan works? E: an eternal coma theoretically solves this.
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Sep 11, 2019 03:35
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Djarum posted:Might be a plot point later where they pull mutants from the other time lines. Oh poo poo that's good. Maybe Krakoa is linked across Moira timelines?
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Sep 11, 2019 04:06
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#9's "fireworks" reference could also be Dazzler. Her and... Longshot? #5... Are Jean and Scott still married? I legitimately don't know. When both people in a marriage are both dead at the same time, does that dissolve it? #3 is definitely Maddy. "Left behind" implies another kid? The Krakoa origin story has some interesting phrases/images. The Twilight Sword is Surtur's. Are those Fire Giants from Muspelheim? The helmets and pitchforks, though, look Atlantean... Doug's infecting of Krakoa was purposely shown and happens before he even gets more info on why he's there. I'm curious if there's something about that. Kind of a place-holder issue with some small revelations. I thought the X^3 stuff could have been shorter; I'm not sure we needed re-explanation about what the Phalanx are and why they came to Earth but whatever.
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Sep 11, 2019 18:39
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Kingtheninja posted:I would say the wolverine one would be Maddy Pryor because of the time between fall of mutants and inferno, but it mentions the island as well which just makes it confusing. I think the island reference is to Krakoa. I'm assuming this gossip column takes place at or around X^1 time period, which would mean that Wolvie and the mystery mom are currently hooking up on Krakoa and the dad/hubby know about it. Of course, the little filename thingy in the corners literally says LIES so maybe a lot of this is half-truths? Or just... gossip. The X-Love-Triangle would be red meat for a gossip columnist and any interaction with Wolvie and Jean would lead to insinuations that Scott was cucked...
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Sep 11, 2019 19:52
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Billzasilver posted:
Am I interpreting this one wrong? I think #10 is in reference to the mutant-DNA'd Sinister in this issue who makes the deal with Xavier. It's just a wink that Sinister already knew about Moira and Xavier's plans... maybe via Magneto? That smile in the next panel is obvious. It also means Xavier wiping his mind of the visit wasn't going to work since he already knew about the plan... MORE PROOF THIS IS VI, I SAY.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:19
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Blockhouse posted:I still don't understand how you can insist this is life 6 when it's only happening because of stuff that happened in life 9 I think it's most likely that we're seeing X. But there's not a lot of evidence that this is directly after Moira's death in IX. We haven't seen her in the X^1 time period. The only hint you've got that this is X and the attack on the Mother Mold was because of IX intel was Xavier's comment that they "think" this is where Nimrod comes from. And if Moira has had that info since she was born... why the gently caress did they wait so long to attack the sun base? Why wait until it was almost operational? If Moira's goal is to make sure Nimrod doesn't come about and she knows when and where that happens, she's kind of sitting on her hands until the last minute, right? Basically: they haven't explicitly said this is X in story and there's just as much irregularities in logic for it to be as there is for it not to be.
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Sep 12, 2019 02:28
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Cael posted:More convinced that the Librarian is somehow Moira in Life 6. That’s why it wasn’t originally pictures in the chart, because when it’s revealed it’ll be wayyyyy off to the right of all the other timelines. Yeah, I like this, too, but she's still born at the same time and therefore that would be on the timeline along with the other lives. I wouldn't call the presentation of X^3 as a "good" future but it's one where the mutants apparently win and that means- in some ways- our protagonists win, right? Absorbing into the Phalanx as an endgame is extremely disturbing and probably not Moira's ideal situation. So it may be the end of an earlier life. Xavier wearing a pith hat on his tour of Krakoa... Cassandra Nova wore a similar one.
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Sep 12, 2019 15:32
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Is Gillen's Uncanny run worth a Marvel Unlimited read?
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Sep 12, 2019 18:08
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The Question IRL posted:
This seems kind of pointless if Moira knows when it happens...
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Sep 13, 2019 12:52
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enigmahfc posted:Catty, Fabulous, bitchy, and gossipy Mr. Sinister is the best Mr. Sinister ever. I had no paid attention to him for almost 10 years, and it's such a stark contrast to his super-serious 90's persona that I cannot help but love it. As someone pointed out, he wasn't THAT serious during the Claremont stuff. I think his actions were but the character was always over-the-top. And that trends with what was supposed to be his origin: that he was a 12 year old mutant posing as what he thought a bad guy should look and act like. But yeah, my intro to Catty Sinister was Secret Wars and I fell in love immediately.
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Sep 13, 2019 14:54
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:A) because he's really good at it, and B) if they didn't, Hickman wouldn't get to write Mr. Sinister and anything that keeps this Mr. Sinister around and in books is an excellent thing IMHO This. Also- assuming this is Life X- Moira knows how good Sinister is at it. It is Life IX where he creates the hybrids. She also knows he's a manipulative schemer which makes me wonder if she has a counter-action for Secret #10 or if she's the one who blabbed to him about the plan...
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Sep 13, 2019 15:50
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If Chuck erased Mutant Sinister's memory of the meeting, Mutant Sinister is going to be very confused how he got into power...
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Sep 13, 2019 16:14
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Phenotype posted:But they're not, because Sinister ended up making gene monsters that killed more than half the mutants (and even the original mutant Sinister would have done that eventually for fun) and just ugh. I know there's always a genocide right around the corner with the X-men, but this one seems really super obviously avoidable and preventable with just a tiny bit of common sense from the two greatest mutants of our times. I hope that's not the whole story with the fall of 10th timeline Krakoa. Here's the thing: Fetus Moira X said she was going to change the rules. Hickman can't make that promise without having her do something loving big. I think the expectation is that next issue (RED issue!) is where that gets revealed. And the obvious revelation is that the birthing pods are Sinister's work with Krakoa to regenerate mutants from his DNA sequencing, functionally creating immortal mutants. You could argue this same story works if it's Hank who does the gene work but Moira deciding "why doesn't Beast just clone everyone?" isn't as good of a story as "My lives have taught me only Sinister is capable of doing this on the level we need."
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Sep 13, 2019 17:53
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Skwirl posted:I haven't read Deadly Genesis because I heard it's very bad, but Krakoa first appears in Giant Size X-Men 1, and then a bunch is done with it during Wolverine and the X-Men DG's biggest sin was having Chuck have another big secret so soon after the Danger thing. Also, the Krakoa in the Wolvie book is the child of the original Krakoa from Giant Sized (which was launched into space). Hickman is probably using the parent island in HOXPOX.
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Sep 14, 2019 18:55
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Saoshyant posted:Pretty sure Deadly Genesis didn't feature on Grand Design, as such it's non-canon. And good riddance. Wait. Did you not read the end of GD? Because the ending makes it pretty clear that the whole thing was an alt universe that segues into the 616. It literally ends by saying "CONTINUES IN UNCANNY X-MEN 143" or something like that (I'm too lazy to get my copy).
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Sep 14, 2019 22:28
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Listen, we can debate all week about whether retcons and specific portrayals of Xavier have ruined his character and/or made him a villain, or if he's a tragic man who makes tough choices to save his species. But I think we can all agree that Beast is a terrible person who does terrible things and probably should be in jail forever.
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Sep 16, 2019 19:13
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amigolupus posted:Was it Morrison where Beast pretended he's gay to the entire world? Oh God I forgot about that... Uggghhhh. Hickman used him as a replacement for Xavier in the Illuminati which was both nonsensical and very true to his character since... yeah, probably Morrison.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:43
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Transistor Rhythm posted:the Uncanny Eggsmen Wow. Yeah, so this isn't my favorite. The cult thing is getting a little bit much, especially in comparison to other cult-ish groups we've seen in the X^2 and X^3 timelines. It's definitely hurting some characters (Storm, in particular). The big reveal was fun and I like how Hickman is playing with all the characters but there was a LOT of exposition and volunteering information that I don't know if we needed at this point. This whole story has obviously been a setup for a new status quo- and I have no problem with that- but this issue felt like he just put his pitch for this part into the comic. I do like the last few pages and agree that the Wakanda thing will be important later. Also: we still haven't seen Moira in this time period...
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Sep 18, 2019 17:56
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So... If this is the 10th life of Moira and Proteus is only mentioned in the 10th timeline... Did Moira have Proteus just for this? Also, if this is all part of Moira's big plan, then in her previous lives she knew about Goldball's retconned powers.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:17
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Metalshark posted:Oh duh, I forgot to mention this. Xavier's big plan that involves Emma could be the Hellfire Trading Club too, and we had the infographic about countries refusing trade deals and being assumed hostile. With the Marauders group acting as a police force against unauthorized trade of Krakoan products? It's already been 20 years since we had a major relaunch of a beloved 70s/80s property revolving around trade organizations! Nostalgia really is king these days!
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Sep 18, 2019 19:09
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Codependent Poster posted:Proteus can alter reality, so you don't need much of an explanation for adamantium and stuff. This is true, but per the steps outlined, Proteus goes 2nd in the process and only makes the egg viable. Elixer and Eva "grow" the egg. Unless he's going back after and putting the Adamantium in... At which point, seriously: give everyone knife hands! Franklin was mentioned a couple time in HoX and has similar reality-distorting/controlling powers to Proteus so I'm curious if that's setting up something as well. Also, Hickman loves him.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:23
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Billzasilver posted:Also, does egg boy qualify as an Omega Level Egg Mutant now? He creates non-viable eggs. Your average chicken is better at him than that so no, not according to the new definition.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:27
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Does Moira's soul transfer with her upon death? I think there's a lot of good and deep-ish issues that Marvel can do with this franchise now that we've mostly been setup. Hickman tweeted that they've basically got 2 years planned out so I'm hoping that means delving into some of these questions. What happens if one of these villains kills a bunch of mutants and then dies? Do you resurrect a mass-murderer even if they're a mutant? Does Chuck decide whose worthy or what parts of their memory comes back? Someone joked about the weekly backups but I can see that as a good story as well; a lot can happen to a person in a week. What happens when someone is resurrected without critical memories? What if someone is killed just a day after falling in love with someone? That's hosed! Maybe on the Mothermold mission, Chuck was keeping constant backups of everyone, but that's not going to happen often. So resurrected people likely won't remember how they died! And that means they could be sent on suicide missions regularly and not necessarily ever know. Even on the Mothermold thing, unless Chuck was doing very quick updates, Wolvie and Kurt don't remember their wonderful last moments together. There's a lot to mine here! I'm still hung up on where's Moira in all this, though. I know that- again assuming this is X- she faked her death years ago and maybe showing up now would be weird, but she's being held back in the story for a reason and I'm dying to find out why.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:15
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Strange Poon posted:I'm not queer but I've had similar experiences with being othered and how that is paralleled by the X-Men. This is why I don't want to dismiss their behavior as cult-ish. I can see how it comes off that way, and it may very well turn out to be as such, but I can also see this being about what mutants start to feel and act like when they "belong", that they're safe, and working toward unity without worrying about integrating or forcing themselves to live and act by the rules and norms of people that are attempting to exterminate them. I'm sure some X-Men will see it differently and it will be explored in the upcoming books but I think Hickman is trying to show what happens when mutants are coming together in solidarity, embracing what makes them weird and different. There's definitely some kind of pod people vibe but I get the sense more that they're being "re-born" through community and collaboration. RE: the cult thing... I think there's a difference between finding a place to be excepted and creating a culture of isolation. I think this is especially true for a group who are actually superior to the rest of the world. In that case, I think there's a fine line between pride in yourself and ideas of supremacy. Not to get too political, but Hickman hasn't been shy about references to Israel, with Magneto literally telling human representatives that MUTANTS ARE THEIR NEW GODS NOW in Jerusalem. Israel is a good example of a group of people who have been brutally treated in the past, found a physical home, and since then, done some extremely questionable things in the belief that their way of life was endangered. This is especially true of the current far-right government. Also, again: when Apocalypse is like "oh, this is loving awesome!" I'm not sure we're supposed to be identifying it as a positive thing. But at the same time, the validity of feeling like you've finally found a home/culture/family when you've been an oppressed person your whole life is extremely important so I'm certainly not judging anyone who is seeing positives in this. RE: this being a setup... It's funny because I'm someone who has been a trade-waiter for almost 20 years now and this is one of the few times I've picked up a book on a weekly/monthly basis, but I suspect issues like this week's will read better in a chunk, where it won't feel so isolated. I think that reading- for the first time anyway- of HoX #2 would hurt that issue.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:30
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Strange Poon posted:I agree that Apocalypse being there could be a huge red flag but I'm REALLY curious where it will go, because it seems like Hickman is attempting to turn Apocalypse more complex. I mean everything he is shown to have done (waging an impossible war against machines into the far, far future, and battling demons at the dawn of time with magic swords alongside old mutant-gods on a sentient island) turns him into... I dunno a Frank Frazetta Heavy Metal cover badass instead of a Mustache Twirlingly Genocider. Of course, we'll see how it plays out. His presence in the Excalibur book definitely indicates a turn towards Magneto-like "good guy." Which I find interesting because his character has basically been extremist-version-of-Magneto-who-was-introduced-during-Magneto's-good-guy-period. Another thought along that: in Life IX, Moira kills Mags and Chuck and hooks up with Apocalypse who... creates a mutant-only nation state, isolated from the human world. Other than Krakoa's ability to be all over the world at once, how is that that much different than what we've seen here? Is Moira's "break the rules" thing just reincarnating mutants but keep the same rough strategy?
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Sep 19, 2019 14:52
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BrianWilly posted:I never really read much about the first Inferno storyline You should fix this. I know part of my love for that story is nostalgia (it was one of the first x-stories I read pieces of), but I think it is legit great and a perfect encapsulation of Claremont's best habits. This video from the guy who is doing the Claremont Run data analysis thing is pretty spot-on for me. There's some spoilers in there, though the story is 30 years old so whatever. Also, the Daredevil portion by Nocenti has him fight a loving vacuum cleaner for a whole goddam issue.
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Sep 19, 2019 15:22
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qwewq posted:Sure, but comparing 9 issues to a run that spanned 3 decades maybe doesn't feel completely analogous? It also is being written/"showrun" by two very different writers. Some writers are more plot-oriented; some are character-oriented. I think- assuming the actual writers aren't loving bad at being writers, which I think most agree Hickman and Claremont aren't that- it's perfectly acceptable to have personal preference for one style over the other. I totally understand the reaction to HoXPoX as being cold or over-explanatory. But it also matters that this is clearly setup and for someone with a track record like Hickman, the benefit of the doubt at this point is important.
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Sep 19, 2019 16:54
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Sesq posted:I was thinking about where Moira is, and I thought maybe she was already dead before her powers manifested and that this was the end result of her last life. But that's not the case because Proteus is there. Is she just on ice until Phalanx times? Maybe she uses the cure on herself once she's found a timeline that's a keeper. If she's dead before manifestation, then X^0 has to be a different life than HoX is taking place in and the "reveal" by Moira to Xavier/Magneto isn't what's driving the Krakoa thing. I still think that's a possibility- that HoX is not the life we think or that X^0 or X^3 aren't either- but the surface level analysis says Moira's just still in hiding.
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Sep 19, 2019 16:59
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The last big reveal is that Krakoa is the Bad Place.
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Sep 20, 2019 03:47
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galagazombie posted:It was Rich Bazillionaires having a childish spat over movie rights because they wanted more zeros at the end of a bank account number The disonance between this complaint and your avatar is fantastic.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:27
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:
That's the interesting thing here though: Hickman is putting together a story where this is a legitimate thing for once. One of the holes in the Marvel Universe that you had to will away was that for some reason the Fantastic Four was adored but mutants were hated. There were always half-hearted rationales for this. But what this is doing is justifying it all.
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Sep 22, 2019 00:15
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| # ¿ May 9, 2024 19:52 |
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NienNunb posted:Life
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Sep 22, 2019 03:49
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