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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
It's not really secret when the game is making a point of calling out the exact sin each boss embodies. :v:

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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Gort posted:

Huh, hadn't come across the term "homeroom teacher" before.
It's one of those artifacts of how Japanese schools are set up. You have one teacher who's your homeroom teacher and considered to be more in charge of you, and other teachers rotate into your classroom to teach their classes(as opposed to American schools where the students go to a bunch of different classrooms).

And yes this scene is awful, but every 'your impulsive idiot friend goes after chicks' scene is in these games.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Kemix posted:

Personally I think most (not all) of the confidants come off as pretty sympathetic all things considered. Kawakami's is one of those, but we get into that when it happens.
That's partially because of this:

ChaosArgate posted:

One of the bigger ideas this game pushes is that appearances aren't always what they seem, and it's absolutely true for Kawakami. Her S Link is legitimately one of the better ones in the game, so hopefully we'll see more of it soon.
And partially because because the other big theme is gently caress Society, which produces a lot of easy to sympathize with underdog s-links.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

The riff on the Justice card is pretty easy to spot. Money weighed more than love on the scales. :v:

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Arist posted:

Well, do you have any ideas who this next “ho shot” could be?
I thought Ryuji was supposed to be the vulgar boy. :v:

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

DeafNote posted:

I never understood where the 'bad cook' jokes came from
or why they were funny
The 'joke' is that all women are supposed to be able to cook, so a woman who can't cook is hilarious because of the difference between expectations and reality.

Japan is not the most progressive nation in regards to gender roles.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
(third comment in a row explaining gameplay mechanic, just to make sure you understood.)

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Oxxidation posted:

This kind of regressive bullshit isn't endemic to all Japanese writing. It's just that Persona's writers, in particular, seem to be partly stuck in high school themselves when it comes to certain subject matter, and it gets more tiresome as its players get older.

Hell, Persona 2 had a sort-of potential gay relationship option that was treated subtly and respectably by all parties involved. There's really no excuse to go from that to Fabulous Child-Catchers.
Reminder that one of the writers said that it's impossible for men and women to be platonic friends.

Which explains a lot about P3's romance routes when you think about it.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

OddObserver posted:

Not quite. Some of the personas in Innocent Sin use motor vehicles in their designs too:



I think you're missing a very important one. :colbert:

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
I got the sense they really didn't intend you to do every dungeon in one day(or the minimum allowed by stuff like the real-world interlude in Madarame's palace), but that was never going to stop people from doing it anyway. :v:

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Excuse me, but this is a 100% serious modern masterpiece work of art involving a talking cat that says you should go to bed since you're very tired. :colbert:

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Funky Valentine posted:

The music is so loving awful in Mementos that it makes whatever enjoyable facets of it exist turn to poo poo.
It sorely needed something like the variations in Tartarus' music as you climbed higher(or in this case went lower). Or Morgana gaining a jukebox function at some point. Or something.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Arist posted:

Y’know, wasn’t he drinkin’ the tap water earlier…? That’s like, the one thing you’re not supposed to do when you’re outta the country.
Hawaii: A third world country with dangerous tap water. You heard it here first, folks.

Like I get that's good advice if you're not sure about the water quality, but :laffo:.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
You don't become a Phantom Thief without learning how to break the rules.

All of the rules.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

cdyoung posted:

I can understand that, I'm just not understanding the overreactions happening in this thread over a pretty typical, if well made, Japanese media product.
I can give you one big reason this stuff comes up more in discussions about Persona than other Japanese games/etc: The missteps on stuff like homophobic 'jokes' & how women are treated stand out a lot more in a series whose themes revolve around accepting your true self, and in the case of P5, rebelling against societal rules and norms that hurt the little guy.

Like, resurgam went overboard, but people do have a point that this game gets tone deaf in a few spots.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

DeafNote posted:

You dont even need Morgana at this point
Makoto is a way better healer than him
You can get away with a team composition of 'whoever you feel like using', honestly.

At this point I was running MC/Makoto/Ryuji/Yusuke as my main team even though Ryuji and Yusuke both fill the same physically oriented slot(in slightly different ways, but still doing the same basic thing). I don't think I had Morgana on my team at all outside of Mementos(for variation's sake) once I had someone to replace him. He's too damned fragile for my liking.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

gmq posted:

I think Yusuke reads as being somewhere on the spectrum which excuses somewhat his past behavior. Mishima is just a dumb but normal kid with zero social skills, it's a lot easier to get annoyed by him.
As an actual :spergin: I got that vibe from Yusuke too. Socially awkward, intensely focused on his interests, sometimes does odd things for reasons that make sense to him but not other people, etc.

That and his bad behavior is 99% confined to his intro dungeon(which doesn't excuse it, but it minimizes the damage), after which he's just weird-but-harmless comic relief, whereas Mishima is all terrible all the time.

Yes, Mishima has some mitigating factors from abuse by Kamoshida/general bullying, and it's obvious his path is going to some bad places unless someone intervenes, but that doesn't make him any more tolerable to be around. Just like some terrible people in real life! :v:


Robindaybird posted:

It's more lot of the links is 'nod and follow along' - like the Qara example, the way to maximize her influence is to keep telling her it's okay to set fire to everything that remotely piss her off or that it's good she refuses to control her magic.

About the only S. Link I can think of where it's *not* a good idea to follow the other person's whims on a mechanical/optimal standpoint is Ai's S.Link in P4 where refusing to date her early on in the link is better.
The funny thing is that the Persona games have gotten a lot better about this, in the sense that you're not actively encouraging self-destructive/potentially dangerous behavior like you'd do in P3 - yes Kazushi, keep running and destroying your knee, I support this. Sure Hidetoshi, keep up this witch hunt over a loving cigarette butt, this will definitely get positive results and not just make you even more of an rear end in a top hat. Go ahead small child, run away from home, I won't report this the authorities or anything.

You still get the 'nod and follow along' thing in P4 and 5, but both of them do a good job of avoiding the "holy poo poo, the MC is a sociopath" vibe you could get from P3.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

ChaosArgate posted:

This is the intent, but the game's mechanics and design encourage you to blaze through palaces as quickly as possible so you can maximize the time you have for social links or stat building.
And when it does force you to take multiple days by making you do stuff in the real world first, a)it doesn't break things into small enough chunks, and b)it just annoys the player who's already in committed dungeon-crawling mode.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Arist posted:

I've never played Ocarina (I know, I know) but I assume this Palace is also much longer.
From the blind Ocarina LP I watched(I have zero patience for playing Zelda games but love watching them for some reason), the Water Temple is more frustrating but shorter & more eventful than this Palace.

This palace is Real Fuckin Bad.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

W.T. Fits posted:

3 does, but you don't find out that it's your teacher until you're partway through the link due to you meeting them and getting to know them anonymously in an online game at the start of the link. And you never actually meet with them in person for your link events, so dating never comes up.
Although you get one of the best scenes in the game when you visit her during the postgame(basically an extended "oh, poo poo" from her).

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Ages aside, another huge problem with student/teacher relationships is the inherent power imbalance. This is also why those relationships are verboten in higher education(at least in the US) - sure, everyone involved is legally an adult, but the power issues remain.

You could argue that the situation here balances it by giving Maaku extra power on his side of the equation, what with him hiring Kawakami as a maid and knowing secrets that could get her shitcanned, but from my POV that just makes the whole thing even more hosed up. "I have these secrets hanging over your head, and you could ruin my grades and whatnot if you wanted to, so I guess we're even" doesn't exactly scream 'healthy relationship' to me.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
We finally get a gay romance option, but it's with one of the horrible stereotype duo. A finger curls on the monkey's paw.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
It's all worth it on the days you get to cross-examine a parrot or an orca, though.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
The biggest plot twist of all: He was actually Unpleasant Boy.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
IIRC they recycled a lot of the models and behind-the-hood stuff for P4, which undoubtedly helped a lot.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

quote:

But you don’t understand him, do you? That’s how it was for all of us at first too. But you don’t understand him, do you? That’s how it was for all of us at first too.
It's me, I'm the nitpicking squad. It's me, I'm the nitpicking squad.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Arist posted:

And so we make it up here. I have no idea what happens if you need to see Ryuji or Makoto, though.
IIRC, they're just hanging out outside the gate. The time slot is still After School, conveniently enough.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Lord_Magmar posted:

See, I like this reasoning for not dating Futaba and it feels very truthful, the don’t date your sister thing always felt like reading overmuch into the relationship dynamic between you Sojiro and Futaba, which absolutely is a possibility but isn’t the only interpretation.
My reasoning for not dating boils down to "you're her main emotional support that isn't Sojiro,and she's just barely out of her shell enough to go outside with your assistance." She's just plain not in a good mental space to be starting a relationship.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

SoundwaveAU posted:

I find it endearing. I also found Yukiko's laughing fits in P4 super endearing, so make of that what you will.
And let's be real, she's a shut-in nerd teenager. She's exactly the type of person who'd constantly be using internet/gamer slang in her speech.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Ah, the gym. AKA 'the place you go to once, see it gives you poo poo for the time spent, and never go back'.

Does it improve eventually? Hell if I know, but I'm not sure why you'd want to waste the time trying. I guess it might be alright as a 'you literally have nothing else to do' time-filler in NG+?

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

"He was a good man deep down."

We are talking about the guy who just watched a woman have a seizure because he thought it was the most profitable course of action, right?
The "humans are a land of contrasts" thing probably would have worked better if they used character who wasn't evil enough to have a motherfucking Palace as their example.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

loving love Fiona Apple posted:

Also the boss of Persona 3 was really pathetically easy. If you don't grind, Shido can be really difficult.
Persona 3's non-Tartarus bosses were too easy in general. Although part of that's so the player doesn't have to go through long cutscenes if they lose - there's a reason P4 and 5 tend to have save points right before each boss.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

loving love Fiona Apple posted:

Persona 5 is great! It can also be bad at times.
And to be fair, it's easier to overlook the bad stuff when you're playing it instead of reading it(or being the poor bastard who has to LP it).

That describes P3 and 4 too. Fun to play, but the writing isn't the best when you stop to think about it for a bit.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

LJN92 posted:

It's stuff like this that reminds me of how much I've come to dislike these sadistic comedy shticks. It seems to be common in anime style media to have a character that everyone takes a huge dump on even when they really don't deserve it. I have no idea who thinks these kinds of moments are funny, but they leave the worst taste in my mouth, to the point I tend to drop anything that relies on this type of "humour".
See also: The "joke" of female characters not being able to cook well, because isn't it so wacky that a girl might not be a good cook?!?

I'm really glad P5 dropped that after it was a minor point in P3 and a recurring "gag" in P4.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Funky Valentine posted:

Ryuji is literally the only decent human being on the Nasty Crime Squad.
Haru did nothing wrong.

Just ignore all the bodies she's probably buried to feed her plants.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
My gateway drug to both LP and SA was Chocorojo's Pokemon Emerald LP.

Glancing over it again, it didn't age as poorly as I thought it did. Still not great, though.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

kw0134 posted:

We're also skipping school, so what is Maaku doing during the day? Sleeping?
You look tired. You should sleep. No, no going outside even though it's 1PM. You need to sleep.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
The pro strat was to use both Chie and Kanji, because Physical attacks were king in P4.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Arist posted:



Considering that he’s finally back, all of you need to take your education seriously again.


Proof she really is Makoto's sister. :allears:

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Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender

Kurieg posted:

There's a Pokesweets LP?
Close enough.

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