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Saw this today. I think I liked it better than the original, simply because it's so emotionally fulfilling on all aspects. I wept a few times, like a manly man. Definitely wasn't expecting a huge emotional response to Michael Rooker's performance in the film. Loved that Yondu and Rocket were given a chance to share their fear of acceptance. Some great moments: "I'm Mary Poppins, Yo!" managed to be funny and also carry the weight of Star-Lord finally accepting Yondu as his father giving him respect and have a connection with him I teared up at the Viking funeral and tribute to Yondu by his old friends and new family, set to Father & Son, which made me tear up big time. Just overall great movie.
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May 5, 2017 22:19
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drat, I'm sorry you guys let previews ruin your movie.
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May 6, 2017 05:44
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I loved the Raimi-esque close ups of the faces of people getting pierced by the arrow. That was awesome
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May 6, 2017 16:01
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Only Drax berates her, and it's not really intentional. She's an empath, she's the only one capable of reading past Drax's obnoxious and blank interior and see he's broken and hurt from losing his family. He grows past his problem of only looking at her surface and appreciating that she's an innocent capable of connecting with him and understanding his intentions and that he does in fact feel emotions. Drax laughing more is also a step up from who he was in the first movie, a hard-rear end obsessed with revenge and blood lust. He's self-aware enough to laugh at how fun and ridiculous his life with these people is. Laughter connects people. Every character is learning to look past each other's rough edges and make genuine connections to make them a family.
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May 6, 2017 19:12
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TrixRabbi posted:But I think there's an overall problem with a movie where everything is undercut by poorly-timed irony and smarm. We get that moment where Drax quietly reflects on losing his family and Mantis feels for him, but why is everything that came before that funny? Is it funny watching someone who behaves like a child to be told they're "hideous" and have them be shown internalizing that? Are we supposed to sympathize with Drax cause he himself is dense and "doesn't know" what he's doing? Why write that? Who is this girl's debasement supposed to amuse? There are a thousand other ways you can grow Drax as a character and have him connect with someone without taking the most childlike character you could write and turning them into an emotional punching bag. Quill's working with a pre-teen's knowledge of Earth culture. He constantly works in pop culture references that literally no one around him will understand and get, yet it's the only way for him to relate to the people around him. It's a tragic that the only way he can relate to people will never be understood by them. A lot of the heartfelt moments for him are when he gets to explain why he used the references Sam Cooke is one of earth's greatest singers and he represents love and romance; I always thought David Hasselhoff would be a good father because he was a bad rear end, and I actually did have a bad-rear end dad;. Like, you can laugh at the references, but that's not entirely the point. Except for the Zune, but even that could be a remark on how Quill will never fully be an earthling, he'll never really get that aspect of his humanity, but it's thoughtful that Yondu found it and knew it would be a good gift for his "son". Fighting a giant monster to ELO's Mister Blue Sky isn't a joke. It's not played as a joke. Thematically, it's a song about positivity shining through the darkness. ELO was very much a sci-fi sounding rock band. It's just a joyous moment, it's telling you "This movie will be fun, energetic, colorful, but will have emotion". That's what the songs lyrics paint. Groot being more interested in music than the fight shows he's really just a child. If you want to consider the author, James Gunn has said Mister Blue Sky is very personal to him and he considers ELO to be GotG "House Band", and he wanted to make a movie about people connecting with each other and finding positivity through the darkness. Drax and Mantis is funny because she's lived as a slave. Drax hasn't had anyone to connect with him emotionally. He legitimately thinks he's being nice and just trying to connect. Mantis is an innocent and is excited to have someone talk to her as a person. Everything Drax says is mean, but he's trying to shine through that his intention is nice. "It's good to be ugly, the people that love you actually love you." Gamora shows up and tells her "You're not ugly," and Drax is a little hurt and surprised, since he just thinks he's being honest. The abuse isn't the joke, because he's not trying to be abusive, and she's not taking it as abuse, so, how is it abuse? It's like an awkward first date where the two people like each other and are trying to say they like each other but are only saying stupid things. You can communicate things beyond the words your using. Sean Gunn's character only has loyalty to his captain. He doesn't really understand personal vendettas, it's all about the job and the reward and using that reward for pleasure. He is not the type of person to harbor thoughts of revenge or hatred, he's pretty pragmatic. He doesn't even kill the people that killed his friends in the mutiny, he just helps his captain out of loyalty Nebula saves Gamorrah because it's all she has. She had her as a point of revenge. Gamorrah admits "defeat" by apologizing to Nebula. Now Nebula has to face the real villain in her life, Thanos. She is a creature obsessed with blaming someone else. Gamorrah acknowledges she was a bad sister, but she's still her sister. Despite her hate and anger, she still WANTS a sister, and that's Gamorrah. If she let Gamorrah die, she'd lose any chance of what she's always wanted, a sister. It makes perfect sense. The only person Peter had on earth was his mother (we really don't know what the deal is with his grandpa). He always thought his father might be some cool hero. To find out that the reason Peter lost the only person he really loved and had, his mother, was his father is devastating. He is also a reactionary character. It is not unbelievable for him to reach for the guns and shoot immediately out of hatred and anger. That is a very human reaction to want to hurt and destroy the person who has hurt you and destroyed what you love. No offense, you just seem to have read everything wrong. If you can't see how someone shoving someone else's turds into a pillow isn't funny, you're just broken as a human being.
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May 6, 2017 19:48
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Maxwell Lord posted:Peter still has not forgotten his family and friends, and something like "I killed your mother" can still create that instinctive "gently caress YOU!" response. That's human. That's enough to make the stars vanish from his eyes. Agreed. Peter has lived his entire life under the impression his mother died from bad luck or fate. To find out that there was a cause, that she could still be alive, that he didn't have to watch her die, and the cause was for a selfish reason, and the cause is in front of him and able to be hurt and feel pain, he's going to start shooting.
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May 6, 2017 19:56
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:All these complex summations of the character arcs does not make them any better. It was bad. All the emphasis on the characters yet they're so cookie-cutter. Counterpoint: you may just not want to enjoy the movie and have defined the characters as cookie-cutter, and so are not willing to put in the effort to look at the characters and read their arcs. CelticPredator posted:James Gunn fucks with tone like no one else I know. I think it's incredible. I love how I'm crying in one scene, and seconds later, laughing. I love how he can horrify me, make me laugh, and disgust me all in one scene. He's never been a director for everyone. But he's one of the few that just clicks for me, right at my core. He's weird as gently caress, and this film is like his weirdness distilled, and with a hundred million dollar budget. Have you read his novel The Toy Collector? It's one of my all-time favorites, and I think you would love it if you haven't read it yet. edit: I agree that Dawn of the Dead is a James Gunn intro, but it's very much a Snyder intro, a la Watchmen (famous footage set to a folk song that echoes the themes of the situation) Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 20:07 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 19:59
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CelticPredator posted:Not yet, but I will soon. I went looking for it years ago, but couldn't find it, and honestly forgot he wrote a book. Gonna get it asap. poo poo's gonna make you cry, son.
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May 6, 2017 20:07
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MisterBibs posted:No? It's really frigging cool, for the reasons I've explained. Maxwell Lord posted:I can see a little apprehension when it comes to using the likenesses of dead actors, who obviously can't agree to what the filmmakers want them to do, etc., but when it comes to making old people look less old, that's just basically highly advanced makeup. Especially since the actor is alive, gave full permission, and even did the acting in the scene without motion capture.
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May 6, 2017 20:41
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Characters are just devices for telling stories, exploring sentiments and themes, etc. And the story they play out in is just so utterly unremarkable. A manchild space adventurer ends up mostly staying the same, with a lot of ancillary bullshit. But that's not the character arc The character arc is you have to set aside your ego and admit your flaws and accept the flaws of others to make genuine human connections, even if it's painful, because that's ultimately what life is about, the connections we make with the people we care about for unselfish reasons. . This applies to any of the characters that matter to the central story. Ego fails because he is unable to make connections, and so compensates by trying to spread himself--because he's selfish and lonely and he's the only thing he understands--to all parts of the universe. "If you kill me, you'll end up being just like everybody else!" "What's so wrong about that?" This moment happens because it shows Peter understands that that's what being family, being "related", having a connection means. There is no point to living forever and having infinite power if you are alone and have no one to share it with, someone who you can laugh with (Drax), someone to love (Gamorrah), someone to compete with (Rocket), someone you can care for (Groot), someone to empathize with (Mantis), someone to look up to (Yondu); Star-Lord doesn't connect with Nebula, because that is for Gamora's connection, to understand the ramifications of her past actions If you think character arcs are about changing a character's personality, I don't think you understand internal character arcs. People can learn and grow and change without going from a goofy sarcastic dude into a super stoic bad-rear end or losing a hand or getting a scar on their face. Also, Man of Steel sucks and is super boring while somehow constantly crawling up it's own rear end until the sweet relief of the end credits. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 20:44
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Zero One posted:On the other hand... Not really. Peter's a novice at the powers, he can only use them on the planet, and in small doses. They directly say it would take a few million years for Peter to be capable of doing any real damage for an extended period of time. Even so, there wouldn't be an Infinity War, because there'd be nothing but Ego everywhere. He wasn't possessing anything, he was actively growing over it and destroying it, coincidentally like a tumor or cancer. There would be Ego and Quill and nothing else.
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May 6, 2017 21:08
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is all incredibly basic stuff. Vol. 2's inspiration, Man of Steel, already did all that and more. Like that scene of Kurt Russell pontificating about how he's not alone with very undynamic shots and set just reminds one how better the equivalent sequences with Jor-El and Zod were. If it's so basic, why are you seemingly incapable of reading it? You said "it's a movie about a man-child not changing". You're loving wrong. I gave you an actual interpretation that considers, you know, the movie I watched. If you want an incredibly original and complex character study, why are you watching a movie based on comic books, or actively comparing it to a worse comic book movie? For a comic book movie or an action-comedy blockbuster, this is incredibly well written, directed and acted. Is it as complex as Miller's Crossing or Taxi Driver? Of course not, it's not trying to be. It's good to have a movie tackle a simple theme in new and interesting ways with fun characters. If that's not what you wanted, that's a different story, but it's fruitless to try and ask the Disney sci-fi action comedy to make you re-evaluate the human condition, or to try and label it on where it lands on a scale of complexity. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 21:27 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 21:17
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Pretty hard, since it's a simplified spelling of a Biblical city of debauchery from Hebrew Edit: which reminds me, they missed a joke where Taserface could have said "Your name is Rocket", but the character wasn't very smart or witty. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 01:22
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's not a particularly radical opinion to note that Man of Steel is visually speaking probably the best of all superhero movies. Even Darkman beats Man of Steel visually. quote:Weird, I wonder if they've ever worked together before. Oh wait!
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May 7, 2017 15:01
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CelticPredator posted:Ya'll forgot what those Ravangers did to Yondu's crew? Yeah, saying they don't deserve it is pretty strange. Everyone who didn't deserve it was already thrown away. "They killed all my friends" 
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May 7, 2017 15:07
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I think it's fun that James Gunn placed the intro in Missouri where he's from. I think the old couple taking pictures on their phone might be his parents (but I don't know for sure)
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May 7, 2017 21:50
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You're bad at movies, debates, and reading comics.
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May 8, 2017 00:28
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Phylodox posted:They fly in through an eye socket into a cavernous, excavated skull, complete with what appear to be vertebrae in the background, and pools of cerebrospinal fluid. And, again, it's the techno-organic skull of a space god from before the universe. It's spooky and mysterious just for what it is. For emphasis, I really can't name creative details from any other Marvel movie or DCU that surpasses that without looking out of GotG franchise. A battle on a floating island that's coming crashing down to destroy everything is close, but GotG has sevral other sets that beat that.
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May 8, 2017 01:20
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Hodgepodge posted:I'm not sure I'd give GotG particularly high marks for visual design as cosmic sci-fi epics go, but a high-contrast shot with sharp clarity probably would have been a really dumb choice for a place called "Knowhere" that is a gigantic mysterious skull. That is taken straight from the Annihilation comic series where the modern Guardians meet and form as a team. That is also where Cosmo the dog hangs out.
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May 8, 2017 01:35
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raditts posted:Rocket really annoyed the poo poo out of me in this movie. He was such a little douche, and mostly not in the fun way like in the first one. I fully believe that was intentional, and I appreciate that choice. Edit for clarity: there were a lot of criticism for Rocket and Groot being Mascot: "The Characters". For the story to be told, you can't have everyone be loveable. That's not the characters. Rocket is, arguably, the most broken of these characters. He carries a burden of hate. So while you get fun cute dumb Baby Groot, Rocket doesn't get a lot of catharsis until he's with Yondu. Yondu teaches him, Hey bud, I relate to you. It's rough being the bad guy. I know you want love, because that's all I want. But you gotta stop being an rear end in a top hat. And Rocket has to set aside his pride. By the end, Rocket understands the situation. He has to be the mean person at the end making pragmatic decisions for the team, even though he wants to save Yondu and Quill. Yes, he didn't have a lot of time to show his changes, but he cries over Yondu's death, sees himself in Yondu, and says 'They forgave him. Even though he stole batteries he didn't need' He's not a cute cuddly character, and I think that's what people want. He's an rear end in a top hat because he's had, as of Vol. 2, only been accepted for a few months by people willing to call him family. That's not easy to accept for a person who has lived their life being abused for selfish purposes. He's a misanthrope. You don't become an optimist or a friendly person just because you're surrounded by people finally being nice to you. He has issues, but he accepts that, and he does want to be better. Yondu's sacrifice teaches him that. The fact that he calls all of Yondu's old friends in hopes they will give him a tribute is enough insight alone to his character. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 01:51 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:38
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I updated my post to give actual argument for why I think the character choice was good.
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May 8, 2017 01:54
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I pointed out why the shot of Knowhere isn't trippy and why Jack Kirby's art was. The actual definition of "trippy" is that it's akin to the hallucinatory effect of a psychedelic drug I swear I'm not being a contrarian for the sake of it when I say that those two shots from MoS are ugly. The second one has a nice green with uses of red, but it's pretty basic framing and it's Color Theory 101. You just need a color wheel for them. I agree, those shots from HG2G are nice, the second one is a clever site gag, but neither are better than either Guardians movies. If you want to debate on whether or not HG2G had a good aesthetic, I won't. It's a very good movie based on it's set design, color design, puppetry, etc. I also specifically said in the post you quoted "There aren't levels of Guardians creativity within the MCU or DCU". I could very easily point to a movie that looks better than Guardians of the Galaxy outside of the rubrik of comic-book based movies, like The Eyes of My Mother, but then I'd lean back towards Guardians strong-point, which is character interaction beyond quips and arguments, where they aren't trying to please the audience every second, where the jokes (while not necessarily all landing), are all well within the characterization, and where they actually feel like there is relationship developing, where personalities clash. MoS and HG2G, the movies you keep wanting to jerk off, don't even manage that. In fact, HG2G wasn't as good as the book because it lost the charming character interactions and wit that makes them work in the book. Hell, if you want to go by sheer amount of work that went into it, Zack Snyder just directs, and he lifts frames directly from his comic books. James Gunn researched the hell out of every era of Guardians and other Cosmic Marvel comic he could get his hands on just for material to create an original story from it. From there, there's a lot of personal stuff going on that, if you read any interview with him, is there. He wrote, directed, and cast the movie while also opening up the world for more installments, which he's helped plan it out. Snyder can't write. At all. James Gunn wrote Snyder's best movie. I don't even think Snyder gets a big say-so on the casting of his films, since DC execs are infamous for pushing their own agenda. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 13:00 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 12:54
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Deathwing posted:Just try and ignore Lamps, dude - I know it's hard to resist, but at this point either he's trolling or he's just super obtuse and determined to post screencaps until the end of time regardless. You're right. I was hoping it'd get into an actual discussion. Edit: I've been listening to a lot of ELO and Brandy (of course)
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May 8, 2017 13:39
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Trash Panda
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May 8, 2017 13:45
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The only actual "plot-hole" I notice is when Ego says, after he gained consciousness, his first goal was to become "human" with the model showing him with a pink alien girl. Not "a sentient creature" or anything, but specifically human. Then Quill says "When did you meet my mom?" answered with "a few months later". It's very strange for him to become sentient and immediately want to be specifically human when he illustrates the story with meeting other races.
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May 8, 2017 14:05
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Nail Rat posted:Huh, how about that. Well, Quills working with limited knowledge of 70's and some 80's earth pop culture. Why would aliens, who have access to an unlimited amount of pop culuture fron their respective species and neighboring planets want to concentrate on what Earth is offering? They have brothel planets with alien music, I'm sure there's alien TV, we just don't really have to see it in the context of the story. Also, specifically, the Guardians crew wouldn't know pop culture. Gamora and Nebula and Rocket were slaves, Groot can't talk, Drax doesn't care, he doesn't even dance. Quill's Zune has 300 songs on it, from a junker on some planet, so it's not that Earth has the only pop culture, it's just no one really cares. I know J Pop is a thing, I have an idea of what it sounds like, but I don't care and won't listen to it.
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May 8, 2017 14:10
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His name is Kraglin. I don't know if he's from any of the comics, but he's played by James Gunn's brother, Sean Gunn. edit: He also does all the motion capture for Rocket. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 14:41
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Detective No. 27 posted:So basically Amazingly close, actually. 
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May 8, 2017 14:58
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Mars4523 posted:On the other hand, Ego is telling a story tailored specifically to Quill, and there's no reason to take his account as a 100% accurate account of events. Especially when he's later found out to be omitting the truth. I agree, I mentioned it because my friends discussed it. I love that Ego says he's the sailor in the song Brandy, but purposefully omits the line "but he had always told the truth", which Ego basically lies about everything by leaving out and twisting the major details. He can't even relate to the song he uses to justify his actions.
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May 8, 2017 15:17
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Harlock posted:I thought that was one of the most groan inducing parts of the whole movie to hear Kurt Russel break down song lyrics. It was a little clunky, but the point is, he's wrong. The song is called Brandy, not Sailor. It's not about the Sailor being a pragmatic hero and leaving, it's about how he's selfishly devoted to a calling and leaves Brandy alone and heartbroken, never able to love again. It's made worse by the fact that the Sailor of the song is in the military or something, he's devoted to another. Ego's devotion is self-made and self-important. It doesn't apply to him at all, other than he's a selfish rear end in a top hat
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May 8, 2017 15:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Well consider the material I have to work with. Why don't you? Convicted Bibliophile posted:They don't all speak English. Peter has a translator embedded in his neck: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can see it in a lot of scenes in the 3rd act.
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May 8, 2017 16:18
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Detective No. 27 posted:I have a fetish for gold women now. Same. Especially if they don't blink.
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May 8, 2017 17:04
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Guy A. Person posted:oh I have a theory/question(?) about (post-credit spoiler) Adam Warlock That's the theory my friend with encyclopedic comic book knowledge is going with. He's basically "Space Jesus" or "Space Vision", but since the latter already exists, it's hard to predict how they're going to treat him.
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May 8, 2017 17:38
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You seem to be so angry about someone criticising a movie that you've determined that literary criticism and critical discussion are in themselves bad, and anything but reciting plot points is a fool's errand. No one's angry. It's frustrating that you think you have original criticisms, when you've put no effort whatsoever towards criticism, but we're not angered by it (I'm not anyway; I'm trying to talk with you to see if you'll actually present ideas). You've said other movies are better. That's not criticism. It's just an empty statement. Other people are reading the movie's themes and ideas and critiquing them for you, and you just repeat them and add "Which is lame". Your criticism is on par with The Dude's use of dialogue in The Big Lebowski--repeating key phrases spoken by other characters who have actually thought about the situation. I don't usually agree with K. Waste or SMG, and they come up with some off-the-wall poo poo, but at least they put in thought and effort into the off-the-wall poo poo. You think screen grabbing MoS is criticism. It is not. Guy A. Person has at least elaborated on your talking points and put effort into why they are actual criticisms, his point of saying there are similarities to Doctor Manhatten is valid, though the themes of the story's they are in diverge enough for the character to seem distinct (to me at least), even though Ego the Living Planet was a character invented in 1966 and Dr. Manhatten, who was created as a metafictional deconstruction on God-like comic book characters, was created in 1986. I liked the movie. It was fun. It has flaws, for sure, but more positive points than negative, and it's above average for a crowd-pleasing blockbuster created by Disney. I think it's fine that you don't like the movie, some people have said as much but actually put effort into the criticism that didn't involve sucking Zack Snyder's dick (Snyder's fine, he's a visual director that works with lovely scripts, because he admits he's a visual director. He liberally uses frames from the comic books for his films because that's how low-effort his writing is--he admits it himself! 300 and Watchmen have featurettes where he's saying "Yeah, this is from page 23, this is from page 92, look!" He's also, in my opinion, very boring now that he's just required to turn in a "Snyder looking film"). I, and many others in the thread, get to watch a fun movie with great characters that does more right than it does wrong. You get to look like a fool incapable of actual film criticism and you miss out on enjoying a movie because you don't want to. Why would that anger me or anyone else? You're the one missing out on the film and the discussion. raditts posted:on the subject of soundtrack chat, can we talk about how Peter is the result of his mom gettin' down with an alien, and his mom nicknamed him Starlord, but across her two mixtapes there's only one Bowie song and it's not Starman? Bowie was apparently supposed to make an appearance in Vol. 2 but died before they could work him in. Gunn's also said he's tried to work variety into the soundtrack, so multiple Bowie songs, especially from The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust wouldn't really have the effect. I wish we had Starman, but Moonage Daydream is arguably more fitting. Though Soul Love would be great for Star-Lord and Gamora. Mulva posted:To be fair his mom probably doesn't want to give him a song about banging kids to base his identity on. I have never thought Starman was about banging kids.
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May 8, 2017 17:56
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Guy A. Person posted:I guess I had kind of assumed he had a drastically different origin in the comics. Was he literally created as a weapon by some "superior" race, only to immediately surpass them by being above that kind of poo poo? Because that is an awesome origin story quote:Originally, Adam Warlock was simply known as Him. He is an artificial being created by the hand of several mad scientists whom formed an elite scientific cadre, The Enclave, and whom based their work in a scientific complex called The Beehive. Adam Warlock was created by these men. He was formed in and born from a cocoon. The goal of his creators was to create the perfect human for their own gain. ... After Him was born, he immediately sensed how corrupt his creators were and promptly abandoned them to leave for space for the purpose of gathering his thoughts. Source
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May 8, 2017 18:15
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Tenzarin posted:Why doesn't he just go to earth and steal a bunch of new music? They got a space ship. Barudak posted:He says it to Ego, his mom died there its why hes never gone back. He says it multiple times, in fact. To Ego and (I think) Gamora.
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May 8, 2017 19:12
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:They missed a joke in a hypothetical next movie where there is a teen groot? Since Infinity War is their next appearance and then Guardians Vol. 3 (which has already been confirmed with a "modern" setting, the release year), I think adult Groot will be back.
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May 8, 2017 19:56
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Guy A. Person posted:Explaining the plan was vital, even showing how he loved Earth music. A lesson in basic musical methaphor was totally not necessary and super obnoxious and bad. As I've mentioned earlier, he interprets the song incorrectly, which emphasizes how he bends his surroundings to fuel his own desires. I think it's also neat how he emphasizes the band's name, "Looking Glass", since they were one-hit wonder who's song is remember, but their name is not.
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May 8, 2017 22:59
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NmareBfly posted:This was the biggest missed opportunity for some jokes, IMO. I was really hoping Quill would sit down with it, hit play, and get 300 hours of gangster rap or gabbercore or something. He hit the perfect song on his first try. Maybe he remembered it from when he was a kid but hasn't heard it for 20 years? That's really sweet all by itself -- they could get some real mileage out of him discovering new music but I guess that's probably a little much to cram into the end of the movie. Maybe what they really needed was another mid-credits scene gently caress yeah give us more and more forever. The name of the song is Father & Son. It's his dad's funeral, what else would he pick? Even if he doesn't know who Cat Stevens is (he would), that title would jump out to anyone in that situation
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May 8, 2017 23:02
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They had to get every member of Fleetwood Mac to watch and approve the scenes that use The Chain, and I feel that's why we don't get the solos everybody wantes.
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May 9, 2017 00:44
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