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I still wanna see a special election
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May 23, 2017 19:53
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Bhaal posted:We're building up a tolerance for big news bombshells. By july, even though this shitstorm will be far from over with a daily rain of breaking news, we're going to be scouring city council reports from rural backwaters looking for any bits of drama to share, and then scratching our necks up in frustration when it isn't enough to get our fix. http://www.washingtonblade.com/2017/05/21/mayor-buttigieg-backs-notre-dame-walkout-pence-speech/
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May 23, 2017 23:42
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boner confessor posted:mock them. there's no arguing with them, just tell them why they are wrong in a calm voice like you are correcting a child and then maybe throw in a clever, polite insult if you want. no name calling, just demonstrate your literacy Silence will be filled with non-sense; find your voice and speak. If they are allowed to state their views in front of others and nobody voices any objection, the newbs lurking 'round your bliss pit will think that's 'normal' and be primed to emulate. It's the humansong that carries that determines the behavior of a population.
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May 24, 2017 18:28
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Mustached Demon posted:go vandals It's a reaction to the realization by the far-left antifa types that ICE are literal gestapo nazis.
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May 25, 2017 16:21
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Furnaceface posted:Can you guys arrest and deport anyone that works as an ICE goon? There was a big argument back in Jan/Feb about whether or not it's right to punch nazis. The overwhelming consensus was that Yes, You have a Duty to do so.
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May 25, 2017 17:11
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Chilichimp posted:The problem with normalizing violence against political opponents is... it normalizes violence against political opponents, and that door swings both fuckin' ways. I'm a pacifist, but I marched with The Bloc in D.C. The issue you raise can easily be flipped against the 'punch every nazi' mentality. I already know a few MAGAs that get frothy in their butt-vagina thinking of squaring off with Antifa.
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May 25, 2017 18:07
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Bhaal posted:If I ever Vermin Supreme pulled Giraldo over a table with a handshake at the Deploraball, the night before the inauguration.
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May 25, 2017 18:12
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HappyHippo posted:Did anyone actually think that Eripsa was smart? I think he's brilliant. Truly.
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Jun 15, 2017 19:42
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skylined! posted:this is the first actual documented implication of stein re:collusion or at least Russian ties that I know of but the insinuation was there during the campaign Oh, this excites me. We're hosting Jill Stein this weekend. The Wolves Den. Flint. I'll bend her ear. What ought I ask?
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Jul 20, 2017 05:18
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http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/rising-democratic-star-indianas-pete-buttigieg-on-key-issues-in-washington/
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Jul 24, 2017 04:02
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pumpinglemma posted:So, uh, this just went up on Popehat. Apparently DC prosecutors are trying to get the IP addresses of everyone who even visited disruptj20.org, one of the major hubs for the inauguration protests. Because that's not horrifying at all. There's a hearing on Friday. my hot take: #DJ20 was a peaceful protest, executed on the day of the inauguration, wherein a handful of paid organizers (funded by George Soros) collected protesters as they arrived in the city (having promoted attendance and given guidance for where arriving activists might congregate), segregating them into 7 or 8 impact groups. These groups - each themed with a relevant social justice identity, i.e. 'Water Protectors' or '#BLM' or 'LGBTQA' or 'Labor' or whatever - each held a direct action and a march on the morning of the inauguration. The direct action was to build a human barricade at each of the entrances to the national mall, and hold the barricade until the inauguration begins. There was disinformatika about plots to disrupt subway traffic. There were the 420 activists who handed out joints in McPhereson Square with the intention of lighting them all on the national mall four minutes and twenty seconds into Trump's speech - though few of those activists were able to enter the national mall. The whole purpose of the action was to ensure the turnout at Trump's inauguration was as low as possible - visibly low, in photographs. The troll definitely worked, as Trump's Administration's /first/ official communication was an outright lie about exactly those crowd sizes. While the DJ20 groups were /executing/ their peaceful human barricades, the Black Bloc marched. A number gathered at McPhereson and marched north(?) to Dupont. I marched alongside for that leg, and as they came down a major street toward Franklin Park - the park I'd slept in the night before. I hung back in Franklin to pick up a trash can that someone had carelessly turned over - not realizing /the parks are *OURS*/ - and the po-lice rushed by me to kettle everyone on the march. Many are still facing federal charges. I could easily have been among them. The Bloc distracted Riot Cops from the peaceful Barricades. Attendance was embarassingly low. Images of the low turnout made it to press. Trump's ego took a significant blow, and he got butthurt, became a lulzcow. But as The Bloc and the Riot Cops continued to battle throughout the day - the battle that moved toward Franklin park later, prompting me to tear off my clothes in protest - each of the #DJ20 marches, enjoying the success of their Direct Actions from earlier in the day, was led peacefully and loudly through the streets of DC. And each of those marches passed through the battle zone where the Bloc and the Riot Cops were squared off - where National Guard sat watching, under a watchful helicopter's eye. The peaceful crowds passing through the battle zone allowed people to de-bloc and duck out, or black-up and pop in. I don't know that the kettle really captured any of the people that were swinging hammers or throwing stones. The limo that was set on fire, that was put there by Larry King - who works for RT. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 22:57
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e: dblpost
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Aug 14, 2017 23:14
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BlueBlazer posted:I'm not saying doxxing, I'm saying shout it down. In the spaces where they remain anonymous. 100%. I was a 'hactivist' long before I became an activist, but I now send most of my hours in camps without wifi. Social Engineering is key. Look at how many political forces are gaining ground through use of 'Persona Management Software.' A single troll can operate a hundred accounts across a dozen platforms, and pass any Turing-style test they might encounter. They played huge in Putin's efforts to influence the election. Putin basically 'Personal Armyd' /pol/. The appearance of the rise in White Nationalism was /engineered/; but that doesn't mean the threat of it is imagined.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:53
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theflyingorc posted:Not really a thing. Some of the crazier berniebros (probably nobody on this forum, or very few) aren't really indistinguishable from the Alt Right in the way they behave, but it's been an eternity since we had real far left wingnuts who actually DID things. The hateful rapey messages that hillbots on fb recieved by private message from bernie bro accounts just before 'bernie bro' was a forced meme... were trolls, using persona management software. I haven't figured out yet if they were working for Putin - or Hillary (a la 'correct the record').
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Aug 15, 2017 22:18
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the black husserl posted:I think it's time for another bigass March on Washington. Occupy the National Mall; The New Bonus Army. Occupy, Anonymous, Deadheads, Rainbow, Street Medics, Pink Pussy Hats, Polar Bear Hats, Water Protectors, LGBTQA, Wobblies, Juggalos, Greens and Sustainability folk, Rainbow, Anticapitalists, Socalists, Communists, Anarchists... it all plays.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:24
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Lightning Knight posted:He brings up a good point, about why all those dipshits stood around taking pictures of Nazis beating up Harris instead of defending him. Climate Activists have been working a 'Necessity' defense, which seems (to my untrained understanding) to be a subset of Jury Nullification. It's mostly intended as defense against terror charges after committing an act of vandalism to kill the Black Snake; I think it was successfully employed in Kalamazoo at one point. I did a quick google search, this turned up: https://climatedefenseproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/CDP-ClimateNecessityOutcomes-Feb-8-2017.pdf Can't imagine any of that applying to the destruction of something explicitly symbolic.
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Aug 15, 2017 23:47
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CommissarMega posted:Are there such thigns as left-wing militias in the States? Surely there must be some veterans, left-wing gun nuts etc. who CAN be trusted with lethal weaponry? Look to the Veterans that came to Standing Rock. Veterans for Peace and such.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:07
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Neo_Crimson posted:The purpose of wearing an undershirt under a polo is so people don't see your gross chest hair. A v-neck would defeat the purpose of that. why is your chest hair gross get that checked out
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Aug 16, 2017 01:18
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Just a reminder: you can measure your implicit biases empirically at implicit.harvard.edu - a great experimental design for determining just how much of a racist rear end in a top hat you are Also: Every time we get to the national consensus that we have a Duty to defeat Nazis and smash Fascism, I like to point out that ICE is every bit as much a Nazi organization as any of these WBC-lite hate groups. Fight ICE with the same furiousness that everyone seems ready and charged to fight nazis with.
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Aug 16, 2017 17:58
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Lid posted:The thing is that Trump voters can't pretend, they can't convert and say "I voted for Hillary" because both the narrative isn't she was good either, but there is nothing good in saying that to them. It's more likely they'll justify the idea of Trump, the Lost Cause of the Whites Will Rise Again. I live in the Rust Belt, in the Great Lakes, on the border between Indiana and Michigan - which both voted Bernie in the Dem Primaries. I know a *ton* of un-ironic Trump supporters who /definitely would have voted for Bernie/. I know that sounds odd, but remember - these people aren't voting based on ideology or rigorous philosophical debate. It's a feeling. And these people (and add me to that bin) had a hateful feeling toward Hillary since the /90's/. There is a Euchre Rebellion forming; descendants of white frontiierspersons that found the Great Lakes /after/ it was abandoned from the Beaver Wars (1650s; french, dutch, hodenashoene and algoncian-speaking groups, with smallpox and climate change, gold and guns, leaving the land abandoned completely and considered haunted), the ones that came in on wooden carts (rather than birch-bark canoes and barges). These people voted for Bernie in the Primaries and Trump in the General. And they're growing more and more upset with the outcome (though a percentage are doubling down, as people do after they commit). Interestingly, in my household growing up, 'No Trump' was my favorite Euchre house rule.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:06
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Lid posted:When you have direct confrontation with someone you learn just how much they respect you, Trump knows the moment he loses power over them they don't even have to pretend to have a veneer of respect. Hell I doubt even Trump supporters have any actual respect for the man, he's just someone who is a projection. There's nothing about him that you would hold in esteem and anyone given a moment would punch him Richard Spencer style. He's possibly the least respected President in history, if such a metric exists, in which he's being treated like a ceremonial figure head with no tangible power and who just happens to be in a role of supposed power but no one takes seriously. How many people living within the borders of the 'US Federal Government' have taken an oath to defend the constitution against all threats foreign and domestic? How many have been granted some level of access to confidential information? What are the prevailing thoughts on the meaning of that oath, within that group presently?
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Aug 16, 2017 19:25
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Buttigieg/Zuckerberg 2020
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Aug 16, 2017 21:01
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Voyager I posted:If anyone's looking into protesting upcoming Alt-Right rallies in their area and you want flags that haven't been co-opted by Neo-Nazis, you might want to look at flying Civil War era Union flags. The nation added several states over the course of the conflict and the flag was less defined in those days, so there are many different variations from the period. http://imgur.com/a/HBEde The Lakota captured Custer's flag, and they have it to this day.
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Aug 17, 2017 01:04
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BRISTOL PALINS BABY posted:The people complaining that we'll be demanding the removal of Washington and Jefferson statues are the same morons that insisted gay marriage would lead to calls for legalized bestiality and child marriage. As someone that spent 3 months at Standing Rock, you're underestimaging the number of people on Turtle Island that hear 'let's tear down Grant, AND Washington and Jefferson while we're at it' and think "well now that's a damned fine idea."
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Aug 17, 2017 18:49
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toadee posted:I feel also like once it became clear that Trump was not going to be a productive avenue to reverse sanctions (in fact, it only served to strengthen them), there is no longer any use for him. He's still forcing through the oil pipeline infrastructure, which Putin def wants
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Aug 17, 2017 20:24
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It sounds like Oceti Sakowin might be re-assembling, this time at Wounded Knee, and with an explicit 'trump sucks' message.
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Aug 18, 2017 00:57
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Jaxyon posted:It's not accellerationism can't work, it's that it involves a lot of suffering of vulnerable people, and the people who advocate for it are usually not the ones doing that suffering. My impression is quite the opposite; I'm living in camps with some of the most vulnerable people. The poorest are on board for accelerationism. These are the people marching with the 'black bloc'; a riot is the language of the unheard. The incrementalist liberals tend to be rich white female activists and internet geeks on somethingawful.com.
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Aug 19, 2017 01:10
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TGLT posted:That's not accelerationism. Accelerationism is people saying "let the system get as awful as possible." Basically you should neglect or make systems worse because you think that will lead to their collapse. The accelerationist move here would be to let them take power and hurt as many people as possible. I suppose this may be where the two talk past each-other; the magnification of suffering is not a necessary condition for accelerating the /next/ iteration. It is, of course, wisest to have a sense of what you're going to replace an existing system with - before you tear down that existing system. In ideal circumstances, you just make the old system redundant and irrelevant and antiquated until everyone forgets it and it no longer holds any power. But after Bernie's loss at the DNC, facing Hillary (characterized as '8 more years of the same, plus hawkish') or Trump (who is clearly not popular with the GOP, and is very likely to flub the whole job in less than a year, taking down much of the existing federal structure and respect among the general public for the 'Legitimacy' of that federal machine)... Like, not /everybody/ believes that we all enjoy our present state of luxury /because/ of the continued existence of (and general regard for) the US Federal Government Particularly the people that don't enjoy those same luxuries, the ones for whom the game is not rigged. Particularly those whose ancestors were destroyed in genocides perpetrated by that government.
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Aug 19, 2017 01:21
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Jaxyon posted:Also most black bloc folks I know would laugh at an accellerationist That's a very strange thing in my experience. How large is your sample pool? Might this be an availability bias? Ending the military industrial complex, ending the militarization of police forces, smashing capitalism, breaking the back of fascism... those seem incrementalist?
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Aug 19, 2017 01:24
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Jaxyon posted:Tearing down the existing system and accelerationism are not the same things. If you interpret accelerationism as 'nihilism that delights in chaos, and works ever toward it', I think you'll find you're straw-manning the viewpoint. I see 'accelerationism' and 'incrementalism' as on the same gradient as 'conservatism.' Conservativism wants to keep things more or less the same. Incrementalism sees a better world, and wants to build on the present foundations toward that reality. Accelerationism, as I use it anyway, sees the present foundations as condemned, cracked and broken; needing to be cleared away to build a new, functional structure. Accelerationism has a time element, a sort of 'fuse'; for example, global warming. If these 400 parts per million really do put us beyond the brink... well, if there's any hope at all, that hope dwindles by the day. We need /significant/ change in our social structures and physical organization before /winter/. If that's the aim you're working for, and the options are Hillary vs. Trump... a rapid failure taking out the GOP and the Executive seems like the best bet for achieving that aim.
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Aug 19, 2017 01:28
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Jaxyon posted:You can interpret terms any way you want to remain correct, but your interpretation differs from what most of the thread is talking about. I'm not talking about your idiosyncratic version. Your understanding could just as easily be a straw man, if my 'idiosyncratic version' does not match with your interpretation - but does represent many that you dismiss as 'accelerationist.' Do you really know people that eagerly voted for Donald Trump in the hopes he would cause as much /suffering/ (not bungling; /suffering/) as possible, to prompt people to revolution? I think Putin might be the only one aligned on that plan. Putin is your straw man accelerationist. But there's plenty of folk that were happy hillary didn't win, and happy & unsurprised to watch trump fail. Hoping plans emerge to alleviate all the suffering that /will/ follow from here; I know a lot of people working on it. But make no mistake - that suffering wasn't caused by the election of Donald J. Trump - they were caused by centuries of genocide, scientific ignorance, unchecked appetites, and all the things that led us to a world where the military industrial complex is protecting a fossil fuel industry that is destroying the planet we rest on.
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Aug 19, 2017 01:34
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I mean, I don't have all yer privileged book-lernins, I'm just telling you how I've heard it discussed over the last year /living in camps with increasingly radicalized activists/
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Aug 19, 2017 01:41
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So if someone came up to you in, say, October, let's say someone that hoped Bernie would win the DNC, and they say to you 'I'd actually rather see Trump as president than Hillary; I actually think Trump will gently caress everything up in just the right way as to allow the Glorious Revolution to take place!'; Accelerationist or nay? And what would you say to that person today?
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Aug 19, 2017 01:49
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quote:2nd edit: Also there's really no guarantee that out of the ruins of apocalyptic capitalism you're going to get a glorious socialist revolution, instead of the normal hardcore reactionary bullshit like Hitler. Better instead to have the revolution first. suppose you just make sure Antifa's ready to play their role day 1
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Aug 19, 2017 01:58
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Mantis42 posted:I'd call them an idiot both times, as someone who loves Bernie too. But, I guess the Trump presidency has turned out, in some ways, less bad than I would have predicted last November. He's just not a leader and one of the most incompetent people to hold office, and little of the rightwing agenda is being accomplished. We might actually have a better chance at flipping a bunch of nationwide offices that we would not have under Clinton, as well as possibly moving the DNC left (yea right). so, they're an idiot who through dumb luck might have been right?
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Aug 19, 2017 02:11
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TGLT posted:Eh, kind of playing counterfactuals at that point. The movement to remove confederate monuments has been going on since before Trump's presidency. As has the conservative meme of running over protestors. Trump has certainly emboldened neo-nazis, but it's hard to say if that was necessary for them to act this way or not. Also hard to say if the only way to convince people poo poo's bad is a nazi running over innocent people. but you definitely would /not/ entertain, for example, the thought 'holy poo poo, they called it and I called them an idiot but maybe they were /right/!'? Or am I misunderstanding you.
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Aug 19, 2017 02:16
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TGLT posted:For an accelerationist to actually call it, they need to prove their claim that poo poo getting worse is both necessary and sufficient, as well as their claim that it would then lead to things getting better instead of worse as is normal. So accelerationism is axiomatically false, the opposite of a tautology? Like impossible /in principle/, because - for them to be right- they'd have to be /wrong/? Instead of predicting things get worse, they get better - and now their entire philosophy is outside the narrow definition allowed in this context?
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Aug 19, 2017 02:31
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WampaLord posted:Let's flip it around. Pretty sure global climate change wouldn't have been significantly impacted. The pipelines are more than worrisome; if Clinton were in charge control of those pipelines might be further from Putin's influence. The Supreme Court would be more likely to be salvagable. I don't think Antifa would be a thing. Putin would still be using armies of hackers that employ persona management software to operate hundreds of fake accounts across dozens of platforms to infiltrate every possible social network and push narratives that empower his reign. I think there'd be a lot of gridlock, and the GOP would be hounding Hillary with non-sense and refusing to budge on anything. Women's Healthcare would certainly be better defended, and the EPA and such would be stronger (though that's still Federalism, which is not universally popular even among non-nazi populations). There would not be an overwhelming political movement bubbling that is truly intersectional, large, diverse, and motivated. I don't know. I don't think I would agree, no. edit: the 'Deep State' would be much more aligned with The Executive, which would be /differently aligned with 'The Banks', etc Uglycat fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 03:14
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WrenP-Complete posted:This week! Holy moly. So bets on what the next major things to happen are going to be and when? Pence pulls a coup, Amendment 25; immediately appoints some responsible, respectable neutral party and resigns. 47 then addresses the nation and tells 'em his intention to resign after The House appoints a new Speaker that satisfies (some sensible criteria). GOP is barely salvagable, but falls apart on account of the leadership's proximity to the stink of nazis and russian collaboration. The Office of the Presidency is restored to some glorified status as Pete Buttigieg is appointed by consensus as Speaker of the House and ascends. edit - statues of Mike Pence are erected in place of Confederate monuments; stories are told of his wisdom. Later liberal arts undergrads might speculate in lovely essays about whether or not his christian upbringing had any bearing on the incredible wise actions he chose freely to take with no personal gain in it to restore sanity and peace to American Politics. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Aug 19, 2017 |
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Aug 19, 2017 03:29
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BrandorKP posted:Good for you. I mean that with no irony or sarcasm and some jealousy. hmm. Noted, thank you  also, I think you still owe me a bar mirror from a decade ago lol
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Aug 19, 2017 03:36
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