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DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Cyrano4747 posted:

Like, look at this poo poo. These area ll IIC varients of things from the afore mentioned 3055 TRO:


The designs themselves aren't poo poo, the art direction is just garbage that looks like it wants to be the latest Gundam series. Unified art direction that has a consistent feel is what's making the new stuff look good, without making the designs too samey.

Those were made by the actual designers of robots for animes to replace the unseen for the Mechwarrior port to some Japanese game console. The repurposing of that art for the IIC models is on FASA being cheapskates.

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DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Cowcaster posted:

i'm not an expert but isn't harmony gold's major claim to fame chopping up and frankensteining together a bunch of different japanese cartoons as a quick cash-in on the 80's toyetic craze along the lines of transformers and gi joe

My understanding is that the mashup occurred because in the 80's the FCC required 52 episodes for TV syndication, which none of the individual animes had, but yes. I'm baffled how HG can think they are the best owners for those IPs based upon their real estate experience, you'd think they'd get better ROI from... well, anything that isn't sitting on old robot cartoons.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
Can't say I'm a fan of PGI, but the Marauder and Warhammer models were licensed from them, so if they lose bigly then those two are out of the game and any hope of getting others in expansions goes with them. The connection of the HBS images are spurious, but they seem driven by an aggressive legal/negotiating strategy more than anything. What raises my eyebrow is that they also extended their complaint to InMediaRes/CGL, likely over their own remade images, which might bring in Topps as the owner of the tabletop IP.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

PoptartsNinja posted:

Ahahahahahahahaha.

As much as I hate PGI, Harmony Gold can eat a bag of dicks.



Exosquad was all Playmates ripping off of FASA's pitch for the Battletech cartoon, though they joined with HG to release Robotech crossover merchandise after jointly loving FASA over in the courtroom.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Paingod556 posted:

Ok, so, sanity check on this.

According to the claim, twice in 2013 PGI submitted a Reseen design to HG, both of which were rejected and were never used. I think it was the Warhammer and Marauder based on them being the 'Tomahawk' and 'OBP'.

Then there's nothing until last year, when they notice Catalyst using the Warhammer design, which is the thread that began this current clusterfuck near as I can tell.


So, did PGI continue to submit designs to HG that were ok'd, which HG has decided not to mention in this suit, or did they go full :pgi: and decide 'gently caress it, like they'll ever find out' and give up asking?

The former doesn't seem likely as it would have been easy to refute. Does this mean :pgi: done hosed up royally?

I can see PGI using those unpublished designs as trial balloons for that 70% rule, but I suspect HG wouldn't give them qualified feedback to avoid infringing even if they don't consider any and all giant combat robots their property.
If the only response PGI gets amounts to "gently caress you, everything is ours," then ceasing contact and going it alone feels like a valid course of action.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I would pay for a modern re-skin of both clan MW2 games. They were great for their time but I have no idea how well they would age, but I played them in my really early teens and was Real Bad at them. Oddly, I replayed MW2 Mercs into my late teens but never bothered with the other ones. Anyway, I mentioned that because apparently one of the things you did was trials of position but I never read into or understood what I was actually doing at that age, so something now where I perceive it better and understand whats going on would be really neat, to me.

Something that plain works on an operating system made in this century would be enough for me, but given that a legal agreement between Activision and Microsoft necessary for a MW2 product would unseal the Blood Gate and bring forth the Night of Endless Agony I'm not holding my breath. The original MW2 campaigns are a series of disjointed missions or snapshots of the conflict that don't really mesh in a narrative sense, but Ghost Bear's Legacy puts you in a few Trials and locks in your Mech chassis for mission arcs. If you complete the campaign without restarting, there are a few extra 1v1 missions for a bloodname. Good luck with the last mission, or just save your sanity and use freebirthtoad.
That said, the fact that the MW5 footage reminds me of the basic flow of the random missions in MW2 Mercs has me tentatively hopeful that some great missions and campaigns could be produced in due time. They wouldn't be made by PGI, of course, but I'd love to see some solid campaign mods like Freespace.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
If you want to whet your appetite or spread your enthusiasm for the game, a fairly big twitch streamer will be playing BT tomorrow. HBS people will probably be around to answer questions in the chat, but since I recognized a lot of goons helping in the paradox stream, I figure the more passionate nerds sharing their experience on a channel that typically nets thousands of viewers the merrier.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
I'm pretty sure HG didn't start the case with the Japanese rights holders, but HG apparently borked their relationship badly enough that the holders came after HG for back royalties (and lost).

double riveting posted:

Somebody make "the allegedly infringed warrior robots at issue in this case" into a pilot line in the game, please.
I'll rather have everyone on Team Battletech/Mechwarrior using some sweet robots in their products free from harassment by these pests. Waggling every Mech pack, game expansion, and tabletop book possible with these designs in HG's face would be the best possible victory lap.
I wouldn't put :pgi: past loving up their finances to fund a proper legal defense though.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Aramoro posted:

Anything less than a full Steel Battalion is a betrayal to these people.
That would require acknowledging a non-Battletech mech IP from Japan, which is heresy.
I'm only half joking, there are people out there who will unironically disparage the anime robots that BT's original popularity (and current lawsuits) were built upon because... they're slightly curvier? Nor does it surprise me that Cohh had to specifically call out people who don't get how twitch/streaming and word-of-mouth popularity work, because I still find people on the tabletop forums who sign their posts at the end like they're still on usenet. No wonder fans act like they are behind the times when they think there have been no new developments in the internet in the past 25 years.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

So infuriating, and so, so wrong. An HBS person really needed to step in and tell him that he was wrong about so many assumptions he, or commenters on his stream, made. Such as your drop weight affecting the difficulty of the mission. So absurdly hard to watch.
Yeesh, stopping that sort of misinformation is why I posted Cohh's stream here. I've only watched a bit of the other guy's stream, but he seemed to be on good terms with the NGNG guys. Could they step in so Mitch can concentrate his yelling at the HBS team at this critical time, or is NGNG part of the problem too?

Psion posted:

e: I should explain, I'm a believer in more is better. So I don't personally hold up TRO 3025 as the holy grail by which all is to be judged, because I never got into TT and i also believe creators can extend and expand their universes even after publishing a book that's "further along" the timeline than 3025 - that is, they can go back and retroactively change things. I think that's healthy and good even if TRO 3039/3050/etc exist. but I also know a lot of people do care about that kind of stuff. :shrug:
There are other Mechs that technically exist in the era, but they're kept in Comstar's secret stash, are obsolescent museum relics, or are prototypes that won't see regular production for at least a few years. Oh, and belong to the Clans. :v:
*Acktchually* a fairly fundamental retcon happened before the grog's golden age, because the first material had the Inner Sphere going full Mad Max and having no Mech factories left. Hesperus II wasn't a prodigiously productive Mech factory, it was a big warehouse they dug parts out of to keep their salvage running. Unsurprisingly a universe where everything is breaking down and dying didn't jive with either the robot-smashing gameplay or the story of lostech renaissance they wanted to do, so they changed it. Shame they didn't continue to change things when it was needed.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
The case against HBS was clearly the weakest, but since Jordan Weissman promised HG he wouldn't touch their precious warrior robots as part of their secret settlement in the nineties it was a gimme that they would try to rope him in as part of their shakedown. As odd as it sounds, I'm rooting for PGI to decisively put an end to HG's horseshit because then MWO keeps Mechs that are already in player's hands, HBS can include those Mechs in the future, and maybe CGL could muster the wherewithal to show up in court so they can publish books and minis with their own versions.

I'm on the fence about MW5, since the initial footage exceeded my admittedly minimal expectations and evoked feelings of prior titles... but then again, PGI got my foundersbux way back when because they said a lot of the right things and I was honestly worried that perhaps the last chance for a new Mechwarrior would fail for lack of interest. MWO hasn't failed for lack of money, but PGI has certainly overpromised and underdelivered on game features over the years. They haven't been promising that much for MW5, which is understandably cause for concern as far as commercial success and more content in the future goes, but comparing how things were back when ghost heat was rolled out to seeing power draw slapped down and the Solaris stuff I am permitting myself a modicum of hope. Like a rock worn smooth by a coursing river, the art of managing community expectations may have gradually been beaten into PGI's skull and from their pebble-smooth brains shall spring... a game.
Nothing that will surpass anyone's expectations, or be considered particularly good by itself, but perhaps solid enough that something that is good could arrive. It might be made by PGI or community modders, but I can guarantee that it will occur over a glacial timescale. :effort:

DeepThrobble fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Apr 15, 2018

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Cyrano4747 posted:

Honestly I like being stuck with the engines you get. Swapping them out makes mechs waaaaaay too same-y and leads to there being clear best chassis based mostly on their weapon hardpoints.

Plus, all the poo poo I ever read in the source books etc pointed to weapon swaps being a major pain in the rear end. "Rebuilt the whole goddamned mech in a factory" kind of pain. The kind of thing that was worthwhile for major states to do when they needed to downgrade some lostech design after its XL engine too one too many hits, but not something your average merc command is going to do in the field.
A lot of the weapon stuff is crit-dependent, so the MWO K2 Catapult mods sticking AC20/Gauss into a machine gun sized bay would be costly to do, and stuffing endo plus XL/LFE into everything is going to require a long trip back to the factory or an upgrade kit and a lot of time with the techs to do it right. The Mariks made a massive killing off of the other houses and mercs needing upgrades to face the Clans during the invasion years, shame that most of that largesse was stolen by the Word or forgotten in the end.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
Streams are up on BT's game directory. (fair warning: spoilers might appear in the preview images) :siren:

You can also follow the game instead of a particular streamer by clicking on the heart icon in the above page; then if anyone's streaming under it a big ol' BT cover should appear at the bottom of your normal twitch following page.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
I didn't ask for this, but I'm just fine with it.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
The original (-1X) has a prototype ECM/active probe combination that weighs over seven tons, while the production version of either piece of equipment is 1.5. Good luck going though the effort of implementing and balancing a one-time piece of equipment.

And while I'm new to this Beag guy, the whole pronouncing italics aloud thing has a pretty short half life.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Psion posted:

I haven't looked but I really wonder what the overlap is between people who argued, completely straight-faced, that HBS should "just make an option to let us have TT rules and anyone who doesn't want that can ignore it" vs the people who apparently somehow cannot ignore an option during player creation.
I've read some pretty freepy/protofascist things from the tabletop community over the years, but the current wave of shitposting seems to lean heavily toward younger people with limited knowledge or exposure to the IP beyond later Mechwarrior games. If the oldies care about that, I don't think they're going to abandon the best thing BT has had going for it in the last 15 years over it.
Then again, if HBS rolls out an expansion depicting Hanse Davion being clearly and unambiguously into men, I could see a violent new Star Wars grade reaction... :getin:

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

SpaceDrake posted:

I've said it before, but the fact that MW5, HBS BTech, and the updated BT box set are all going to be set in 3025 or later has me legitimately going :raise: a bit. The people running development of these games aren't dumb and know that people who played in the 90s are going to be very attached to Cool Clan Designs and Their Sick rear end Mad Cats and whatnot, but there is a conscious effort being made across three different products to go back to the time prior to the Fourth Succession War and the advancement of any of the metaplot from the 80s and 90s. And regardless of me bumbling into white savior tropes and whatnot, I bumbled into it because I was trying to make the point that the previous metaplot had a really bad case of Space Is For White Guys and had bad problems with representation and the piling on of a whole goddamn mess of problematic elements (and people somehow still not getting the message that the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars are THE BAD GUYS even with all the poo poo they do because of wider American cultural memetics doesn't help either).

3025 has been the starting era of the game for as long as there's been a game. Less tech, less of everything plot related to follow, and a lot more people on board because most Battletech fans love the plot of the universe up to the point they were introduced to it and then proceed to hate everything afterward for invariably failing to meet their expectations. Battletech's a universe with thousands of pages of material written by dozens of authors over three decades, and the when and how (and if) of someone's interaction will color their interpretation. That's why plenty of people know that the Clans are by and large bad guys, and they also don't care because in so many ways the universe is (to borrow Rob's term) young adult fare. Passing moral judgement over that feels about as sensible to me as, say, thinking that someone with a Decepticon sticker on their car genuinely intends to harm me.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

linall posted:

Don't be silly. It's the car itself that you have to worry about in that scenario.

I would totally let them hurt me because I am a monster that callously throws the lives of his troops away while laddering starcraft. :colbert:

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
Nah, they're warmongers that are willing to impoverish most of their populace to keep their robots fancy, and have literally had racist pogroms.

Drone posted:

I always choose to believe Steiner is like the Empire from Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and that's alright with me.
:yeah:

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Ciaphas posted:

Wait if the Mad Cat is the Timberwolf now then what the hell is a Mad Cat Mk2 :psyduck:
A mech specifically designed and named for export sales to the Inner Sphere, because the Diamond Sharks are Ferengi in Klingon clothing.

William Henry Hairytaint posted:

I think it's 8 seconds actually. 200 km/hour tanks and yet my 31st century long range missiles have a max range that's about a third of what a Sherman tank could hit with its main cannon in 1943.
It's a tabletop game, not a tennis court game or an aircraft hangar game. :colbert:

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Ciaphas posted:

wait so clanners are making what they would call timberwolf IIC, and rebranding them for export to gullible IS losers by painting Mad Cat Mk2 on the side?

that kind of owns actually

(edit) wait isn't current battletech lore mired in those fuckers still driving a spear toward Terra
IIC is for originally Inner Sphere mechs that evolved over time into radically different designs. More on that here.
If by "current" you mean 3145/Dark Age, then yeah, the Wolves and Jade Falcons haven't given up on the whole crusader thing. The Inner Sphere only stopped the Clans from conducting an invasion together, they're still individually free to do that.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Eej posted:

Does like anyone care at all about Dark Age? It always feels to me like BT is perpetually Just Before Jihad when people talk about "right now"

e: or maybe "just after Wars of Reaving" ^^^^^
There was a long stretch of "Forever '67" fifteen years ago when the post-FASA TT crew was figuring out how to connect it all to what Weissman was doing with the Clix game, and they were contractually obligated to follow his lead, but there's a strong tendency among BT fans to treat everything past 3025/3039/3050/3052/3055/3057/3058/3060/3062/3067/3085... as non-canon. To their credit the tabletop guys did the best they could with the poo poo sandwiches they got served, particularly without any novels to guide people through the main plot points of the "Oops-we-blew-the-best-term-for-this-on-the-Clans-and-this-is-pre-9/11" era.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
Welp, my luck with my old potato rig ran out. My game window disappeared while I tabbed out and now it starts up as a minimum sized window, so... yeah. :v:

Galaga Galaxian posted:

And half of them were picked because the Wolves thought "Well these were kinda crappy back in the day, so they shouldn't raise eyebrows, right?" :downs:

"You have how many Fleas and Annihilators?!" :stare:

They at least had it right about the Flea, the Anni stuck out because it was a prototype city fighter used against Amaris that no one had any record of.
The Dragoon exclusive that takes the cake is the Imp, which was technically a Star League design... developed after the Exodus and prior the exiles' collapse into civil war.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

RBA Starblade posted:

Mechwarrior and Homeworld was a whole lot of my childhood and besides that one rulebook for Battletech I didn't realize it was really a thing until a decade later.
I still don't have a single heavy, 20 hours in and post-Panzyr. I'm sooo close to one :negative:

You and I are in the same boat, I headcapped a Wolverine and pilot-killed a Cataphract in the same mission but only had two salvage slots and no luck. End this robot hell. :smithicide:

Speaking of Homeworld, a totally "In Success..." thing I'd love to have one day would be a digital TRO/universe primer along the lines of the DLC guide for Deserts of Kharak that reproduced a lot of the great worldbuilding text from the original game manual.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

EdEddnEddy posted:

Btw, is there any way to still get the PDF pack that was on the KS? And what other sources are you guys using to break down the whole BattleTech history outside of the novels? There is a lot of stuff I still don't think I have covered and the only Physical book I have is the 3050 Mech Reference I think.

How bad would a game based on the timeline of the 1st/2nd Succession War be? Are there any games outside of TT that goes over that era? Also are there any good books I should read to cover what exactly went down?
Since I hear this a lot: :siren: Read the Universe Guide PDF on this page. :siren:
First and Second Succession Wars recently got a sourcebook covering each, but in short it's an all out bare-knuckle space war: fleets of warships annihilating each other, free use of nuclear weapons, and poo poo dying everywhere. Not a good environment for the average humble Mech company of later eras to survive intact.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
The game seems to choke up whenever I get enough salvage for a new mech, but things are otherwise fine. I don't know why a little text pop-up with Yang talking about the variant would cause it to happen.

Eej posted:

Battletech started in 1984 with designs licensed from multiple anime series and also some originals. The Clans were introduced in 1990, presumably after some financial success and they could hire an actual artist to produce 1) art that didn't look like hot garbage 2) thematically consistent mech designs
I'm pretty sure that in one of the HBS Q&As that Jordan Weissman talked about how they came up with Omnimechs to explain why all the mech designs in the Virtual World pods had copied limbs, then decided they needed a new faction to introduce these radically different designs. Just add some 80s-brand problematic fiction (to match the 80s-brand problematic fiction that already existed in the franchise, lest we forget) and that's how the clans came about.

Improbable Lobster posted:

The fact that no one ever went "hey lets redesign all this poo poo so it looks halfway consistent" boggles the mind. Hell, the whole "unseen" thing confuses me. Why didn't they make new designs that wouldn't get them sued?
Money, or lack thereof, probably governed most of the decisions made by the tabletop. Even Mike Stackpole, who wrote the backbone novels for BT, complained of not getting paid by FASA. The protomechs look as wonky as they do because they were first drafts that the artist sent in expecting to get feedback, only they got thrown in to the next TRO without anyone looking at how silly the drat things looked.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Dramicus posted:

I also figured that the Warhammer 40k rule to salvage applied when it came to mechs. That in most circumstances pretty much any mech could be recovered and repaired from all but the most severe damage. That the chassis itself was made of incredibly stern stuff, and all it would take is some time and money to repair the armor and reattach lost weapons. So like in 40k, even if heavy losses were incurred it was possible to come back from that, given enough time. With this being the case, it would also mean that offensive operations would be incredibly risky as it could be difficult to recover and salvage damaged equipment. Defensively, you might even encourage the enemy to attack as there was a good chance they would have to leave behind equipment if they failed. This would also mean that light and medium mechs would see far more use as they could use their speed to effectively withdraw from losing engagements, maybe without even losing any mechs. Whereas the Houses would be hesitant to commit heavy and assault mechs to anything other than defensive actions or specific attacks, as it would be far too likely to run the risk of having them cut off from salvage operations.
You actually have the right of it. Barring destruction of the center torso, any mech can be salvaged and eventually rebuilt. Despite the Mechwarrior games and competitive tabletop players skewing things toward the biggest and baddest mechs, mediums and lights are supposed to be the most common weight classes. Assault mechs are rare and held back so they can be committed to actual assaults when all the lighter elements are joined in battle. The tabletop has an optional forced withdrawal mechanic to model people wanting to disengage and preserve their mechs over fighting to the death, so beyond unlucky crits the mechs leave the field mostly intact. Of course it's a lot more fun and tense for players to play the fight out, so that's the default. I do agree with a lot of others that it'd be nice to have some more nuance and have enemies flee or eject when things are clearly not in their favor instead of the death spiral of eternal aggression.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
Who would've thought the universe can be pretty fun when it isn't limited to the Stackpole self-insert and superfriends turbofucking an antagonist that can't think and breathe at the same time?

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
The Argo manages to survive petty pirate attack events well enough, and even has an aerofighter bay on its schematics, though I wouldn't trust what is ultimately a civilian spacecraft against foes that are determined to sink it.

The things that would compel Comstar to do that would be the detailed SLDF map used to find Outpost Nautilus, which they likely don't have if Nautilus was intact after all this time, and a very unfriendly ghost prototype that they want to keep out of the hands of the ignorant Houses, with knowledge of their existence fortunately limited to a trusted few. The circumstances around the unexpected sinking of the Iberia over Coromidir might raise some eyebrows though.

Tarezax posted:

There weren't any procedurally generated missions in MW4: Mercs either. All missions were part of a mini-campaign on each planet, often with a story branch depending on which contract you chose next. For example, on Styk, you get a choice between honor guard for peace talks between the locals and the Capellans or sabotaging the peace talks by assassinating the local delegates (of course at the behest of House Liao)
MW2: Mercs had a surprising amount of mission content for a game made two decades ago, including branching missions if you failed one of the main campaign missions, and a wide variety of one-offs. Sadly most of the effort that went into those was wasted because the latter wouldn't come up in the standard merc campaign, only in the mercenary commander mode, and failing a mission (without quitting it at the start) likely wound up with your character dead or mech wrecked so everyone just reloaded whenever things went pear-shaped.
It'd be interesting if the game generated a fixed force of opposing mechs to appear across a planetary campaign, so you could weigh the tradeoffs between facing down reinforcements or hunting down stragglers in a mission with potentially having to face them in the future, with limited resources for repairing mechs and healing pilots between missions. I feel that'd give a lot more oomph to the idea of good faith withdrawals and would also work well with the idea of your mercs running into rival outfits working for the other side, or even one of the space-famous commands.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
The noncommittal don't-hold-us-to-anything answer in the post-launch AMA was yes, though they also said that they want to flesh out more content in this era before trying the Clans.

Since PGI started including some older mechs that aren't particularly meta-good like the Javelin, Assassin, and Vulcan months after they've been digging hard into the 3060 stuff suggests that another deal with HBS might be in the works, though those same mechs would also flesh out the roster for MW5. They also made the Wolfhound, Crab, and Cyclops since the original deal.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Random idea for encouraging the use of smaller mechs; tonnage limitations based on detection. Something like "the enemy has sensors all over the place and you can't insert more than 200 tons without being detected". Alternatively tonnage limits based on locations, with frozen lakes that can take small mechs but collapse if the mech is too heavy, or sand areas that small mechs can get through but large mechs can only move one hex per turn. Make it an environmental or mission challenge.

Adding urban environments from the tabletop would be a huge deal changer, since most buildings/bridges aren't designed to support multi-ton war machines and can be shot out from under your mechs. Of course, then you'd have to include falling damage, and EWar fuckery to complement everything blocking lines of sight! :getin:

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
Yeah, I don't recall the Clan era favoring lights since the advanced components allowed heavier designs to move faster and carry/fire more guns. Then things like C3 systems, pulse lasers, and plain longer ranged weapons bring the light's high movement mods down the curve into turbofucking territory. Light mechs are simply too fragile, the armor differential with heavier mechs is too much to reliably overcome.
That's why in a game that largely adheres to the tabletop stats and only allows you to control a small number of mechs, we could use larger maps and scenarios where movement is specifically rewarded. The single player skirts with, but does not cross, the line of punishing players with bonus objectives in certain missions that a pure assault lance cannot easily achieve, but I feel that the inevitable descent into a pure-assault mechbay can only be stopped when players get hit over the head with situations where assaults are not the most efficient. The drive to get any and all bonus objectives in a mission is a powerful incentive (and came up in the Q&A at PDX's BT panel today), just shift the focus from murdering waves of (not?-)reinforcements to engaging the baddies in the far corner with something that has to move at least 5/8 before poo poo explodes. For example, if escort missions had the first enemies assaulting some buildings where the vehicles are hiding at the first objective point, much like the flavor text suggests. If that point is far enough from the start that the AI will likely destroy a building and the vehicle inside* without fast mechs to engage the attackers, then that provides players with an incentive to keep tricked out mobile mechs.
*but importantly does not annoy players by damaging vehicles before the escort part starts!

Randallteal posted:

Oooohhhhh, that's who that was. I kept thinking he sounded like an evil Nathan Fillion. He was being very unreasonable at the end, TBH. I was actually really surprised you never fight him, now that I think about it. He talked a lot of yang (seriously, his sentences were monologues) for someone Farah ganked with a computer virus, Independence Day-style.
It's hard to have a battlefield confrontation when he's with the Taurian Navy, captaining dropships like his son, and his dropship/mech complement will utterly gently caress your merc's poo poo apart. It would've been nice if they had a character commanding the ground forces who doubts the righteousness of the cause as your guys dunk on them and then probably gets merked with the rest of the crew.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Lord Koth posted:

Lights can still be usable in Clan era, it's just the reasons to take them shift unless their ability to evade fire is truly exceptional. Like a Hollander - or a Kit Fox A - are still great since they're effectively Gauss Rifle platforms while still being Lights. On the traditional Light roles, both the truly insanely fast mechs like Fire Moths or Fireballs and the ones mounting esoteric stuff like Null-Sig and/or Stealth armor are perfectly viable. Like, even a modern IS or Clantech Heavy is probably going to be on tenterhooks against an equal value of Fire Moth D or, God help you, M variants.

Also, it's not like methods to screw over fast lights don't exist in the 3025 rules already - artillery (especially on-map) and mines don't give a poo poo about their evasion modifiers. Pulse lasers and the like do admittedly seem to mostly squeeze out the relatively generic pretty fast light mechs though.
Lights might be able to headcap heavier mechs with a gauss, but in addition to being able to mount more gauss rifles, supporting weapons, or a reliable gauss/ppc combo a heavier mech can also shrug off hits to non-head locations that will go internal or destroy that section of a light. In fact, while the lack of engine double heat sinks is a widely lauded idea for cutting off heavier super-meta designs at the knees, it also hurts the laser-heavy and stealth lights that are still combat effective. I don't know how the engine DHS change would effect the overall weight relationship in either the tabletop or the game, but I'm not terribly confident that lights can become a balanced thing without heavy alteration to the rules. That's why I favor shifting the context of combat first, and while HBS did their level best for the series of lance-on-lance battles that are core to the series there's still certainly areas outside of that to explore where mobility can shine.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
I've also been pondering ways to use the hoard of partial salvage lying around, and think it would work better if it was a separate form of currency that you could trade at certain places to expedite rebuilding whole mechs.
Since there are already mechs in bad repair in the game I think having a quality system for your mechs might add some challenge and dampen the weight power curve. So instead of cleaning out the cockpit of a shoddy pirate assault and instantly refurbishing it into factory fresh mech ready for plusguns (like I did to a King Crab), that mech will remain in poo poo shape and can't take max armor or advanced weapons/equipment unless you give Yang a lot of time and salvage to work with. Ideally good condition salvage from the same model is a guaranteed boost, but variants and mechs within the same weight class could also be effective. Then by keeping mechs around and investing in them you could justify a big payout for selling them for full price.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
*quote is not edit*

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

CommieGIR posted:

I wish they had kept the Level 3 Battletech rule where you could prop the mech up on an arm while prone on the ground and fire even when fallen.
Eh, it was a casualty of simplifying the mechanics around standing up so you don't have legged mechs and any stability victim spend the rest of combat flailing around in the dirt, damaging themselves and their pilots in addition to having every enemy run train on them. Why bother with shooting one arm gun (if you have one) and leaving yourself immobile to the tender mercy of the enemy when you can just pop back up, move in some manner to protect from oncoming weapons, and fire everything?

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
If the Argo or its contents represented a sufficient threat to the status quo ante of the succession wars prior to the Helm Core/4th War, they wouldn't gently caress around with spies, they'd send the ComGuards to shoot it down and dispose of the remains in a nice big gravity well just to be sure. In their view it is better to destroy irreplaceable technology than lose it to outsiders while trying to preserve it; all be made good in the end when the houses are gone and they're in charge.
They did it before, and in the same neighborhood to boot.

Certain death is why I believe that whatever makes the Argo special isn't considered threatening, or otherwise isn't known outside of the ship's officers, and also why the Argo lacks a mobile HPG or satellite buoys despite it making sense for an exploration/first colony wave ship to have them. A civilian dropship with an experimental KF boom isn't earth-shattering since standard KF booms for jumpships are pricey as hell, and probably not economically feasible compared to just producing more jumpships and alleviating the primary bottleneck to FTL logistics. I don't think anyone would risk losing a jumpship in trying to replicate the Argo's system either, they don't have the deep pockets or fleets of ships to spare like the olden days.

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
She messaged you to bring you to the system where she was you she could skype you directly. Face on the holoscreen != HPG message. While one might be able to shell out for real-ish time audio or video transmissions, she's only a minor periphery noble and there's a war to run and all.

As for the Locura, it's a prototype Star League AI created to autonomously operate a space warship. The Terran Hegemony was better off than the Houses, but still far smaller and surrounded on all sides, so paranoid First Lords built continent-spanning tunnels and fortifications like Nautilus on many worlds so they could hold out for years, and entire fleets of drone fighters, dropships, and warships governed by AI patterned after their best admirals. The SLDF bled itself white trying to liberate the Hegemony because even when outmatched the drones could suicide themselves on transports and command ships, and that was before the ground forces landed and started charging their own murder holes. Comstar wouldn't have much knowledge or experience regarding the Locura because Amaris murdered the drone's programmers, and Kerensky scrapped the ships and took whatever remained with him.

edit: Wow! Hope that's a sign of great things to come!

DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006
DFA uses the initiative system, though I haven't seen enough to know if there's more to it. The tabletop and video game parts of the IP are separate, though it'd be a welcome change to the lack of content and questionable stewardship of Catalyst.

FASA spun off the electronic game rights to FASA Interactive, which was acquired and later dismembered by Microsoft. I think a few Bungie devs were with them, or at least knew them, because how MS treated them came up in a Halo retrospective I read.

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DeepThrobble
Sep 18, 2006

Magni posted:

If you ask Dr. Murad about it after the mission she says that, according to the files she saw before the Locura got loose, whatever they were researching had to do with drone warship control AIs. A funny thing about the Terran Hegemony's SDS drones was that you had to shut them down entirely and let a human crew take over when moving them between star systems. Having the AI active during a jump consistently caused it to irreversably go full Skynet and just flag everything other than itself as hostile. Nautilus was apparently home to a research project that was trying to fix that little issue.

Bingo. It's the AI for a M-2 drone, the Terran Hegemony's first attempt at an AI-operated combat dropship. Unfortunately it treated IFF codes as a suggestion even without jump issues and was cancelled. Turns out a few centuries in cold storage at the edge of civilized space is a poor remedy for omnicidal tendencies.

Everything I've said about the origins, handiwork, and fate of the CASPAR drone warships gets detailed in the Liberation of Terra sourcebooks, most relevantly page 153 of Vol. 1. Those and the two Succession Wars sourcebooks are interesting reads if you want to know what the heck's going on at the end of the game intro and how it leads to the setting everything occurs in. Sarna doesn't appear to have a full article on the whole Hegemony campaign, but if you wanna know how crazy the battle for Terra was, here you go.


Lord Koth posted:

So am I, because that last line is blatantly false. Comstar totally has those kind of systems, because the Wobbies extensively deploy SDS systems during the Jihad. The only thing really limiting them is that while they're certainly easier, cheaper and faster to field than actual manned Warships, it's still a fair bit of construction needed to deploy the larger command ships and the like.

Technically the Clans do too, and it was indeed a major plot point in the first book of the invasion of Huntress (as in the IS forces felt the need to sneak infiltrators in first to shut down their suspected system), but the writers basically forgot about that plot point afterwards. The Wars of Reaving saw basically all honor rules thrown out the door, so it's not like various Clans wouldn't have activated them just to spite everyone else.
You're mistaken friendo, because you can have a SDS without drones, and drones were only one part of the SDS. The Word recreated what they could of the SDS, ground-to-orbit weapons emplacements included, but since they had so little to work with their drones were only up to dropship size, lacked true AI, and needed remote human control to emulate the intelligent behavior the originals had. Clanners didn't need them to make attacking Huntress risky either.

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