UKMT General Elextravaganza 2017: Lord Buckethead would have won

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT General Elextravaganza 2017: Lord Buckethead would have won

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What is the best flav... you all know what this question is: This poll is closed.
Labour	907	49.92%
Theresa May Team (Conservative)	48	2.64%
Liberal Democrats	31	1.71%
UKIP	13	0.72%
Plaid Cymru	25	1.38%
Green	22	1.21%
Scottish Socialist Party	12	0.66%
Scottish Conservative Party	1	0.06%
Scottish National Party	59	3.25%
Some Kind of Irish Unionist	4	0.22%
Alliance / Irish Nonsectarian	3	0.17%
Some Kind of Irish Nationalist	36	1.98%
Misc. Far Left Trots	35	1.93%
Misc. Far Right Fash	8	0.44%
Monster Raving Loony	49	2.70%
Space Navies Party	39	2.15%
Independent / Single Issue	2	0.11%
Can't Vote	188	10.35%
Won't Vote	8	0.44%
Spoiled Ballot	15	0.83%
Pissflaps	312	17.17%
Total:	1817 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

I'm kind of wondering if the polling might be inaccurate in the other direction, if there's now "shy labour" people who won't admit they're voting for jam stalin, clearly the joke option. It's almost certainly not the case given it's been the opposite almost forever, but, then, we've never had jam stalin before either.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2017 23:29

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 04:45

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Al-Saqr posted:

those ISIS monsters are probably trying to influence the election, what purpose would this have? Do they prefer Theresa may?

ISIS's stated goal is to force an apocalyptic showdown with the west in, IIRC, Raqqah, so, yes. Corbyn would be trying to de-escalate things, they want the rapture.

Hoops posted:

There's not going to be much more coming out about this incident until the early hours of the morning, so I suppose we may as well discuss the normal stuff.

"Shy voter" is synonymous with "ashamed that they're actual selfish voter", basically. They're shy because they don't want to admit that actually, they want to keep their money and not pay as much tax, someone else should really be paying instead. They don't really want to have to have their lives interrupted by strikes, they should be able to get to work on time. They're a bit afraid of all the muslims and would like to see less of them around, even though you shouldn't say that because people will think you're a racist.

It's not about being cool or credible, it's about voting for something that you know is probably going to hurt people, but helps you, and they don't want to admit that they are that person deep down. No one voting for Corbyn is reluctant to admit they voted for him. So I don't think you can really have "shy Corbynites" just by nature.

I dunno, I've met them so far. There are people who'd really invested themselves in the idea that Corbyn's hopeless and inept and could only deliver multiple crushing defeats to Labour and nothing can ever improve until he goes, and so on, and these people are reluctant to say he actually seems to be doing well.

forkboy84 posted:

Broadly I agree but I suppose if you were looking for rays of hope maybe some people feel embarrassed about voting for a former member of the IRA as PM. Obviously I'm being silly & hyperbolic, but that would probably be the issue if anything was going to make "shy Corbynites" a thing. But I don't think it is a thing.

I'm not hugely convinced by it, but, who knows. I've met people embarrassed to say they're voting Corbyn, after all.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2017 23:56

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

I kind of wonder how frequent stuff has to get before people start treating it less like plane crashes and nuclear accidents, which are very rare but everyone's terrified of, to car crashes and heart disease, which are endemic but nobody gives a poo poo about.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2017 23:59

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

namesake posted:

I dunno but Iraq will definitely give you a hell of a lot of data.

I'm reminded of the article where a guy toured afghanistan asking for their perspectives on 9/11 and the war and most of the interviews went "We invaded you because you had a big terrorist attack" "Yeah those happen".

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 00:04

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

goddamnedtwisto posted:

A ban on reporting the names of the attackers would probably help more than all the surveillance in the world. Leave aside all the questions about foreign policy and alienation, the psychology is basically identical to school shooters - they want their names to be immortal, and they now have a blueprint they can follow without ever having to communicate with anyone ever.

This would be a good move but would require doing anything to the press that stops them doing whatever the gently caress they want at any time so it's probably more likely we're just going to ban cars.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 00:06

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Some of the people interviewed thought that the US were the Soviets come back for more.

I remember the guy who'd said that invading Afghanistan was just how you showed the world you were proper 'ard. I mean, the British did, then the soviets did, now the US are top dog and they're doing it! I couldn't help but marvel at that.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 00:08

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Sinteres posted:

Get ready for the far right to convince people the media are afraid to show who the real enemy is if there's a concerted effort there. It's true that the media provide the oxygen that terrorism needs to breathe, but it's also true that people want to know this information, and trying to impose a media blackout will look to many like burying everyone's heads in the sand.

I mean, there are powers to prevent reporting on victims of crimes. It's not unprecedented; reporting is meant to serve some kind of public good, more than staring at car crashes.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 00:18

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Roblo posted:

I thought you guys were joking about the sudden influx of wannabe fascists to the thread but nope.

Yeah it happens.

I mean, for all the "God, leftists, and their concerns for any strata of society that's not the currently-dead people!" type posting, there's a group that's jacking off every time they see "murder" and "muslim" in the same sentence and it's not the people who're worried about cyclic violence.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 00:46

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Endorph posted:

as far right as possible because they're a literal doomsday cult. they want the entire world to be as radicalized and militarized as possible.

like someone else said it's a bit insane to posit that this is all some grand plan to kill corbyn or w/e but it is entirely possible that these attacks have to do with the election. it's a time of potential political upheaval in the uk. a government that is very far right and very pro-military would be better for their goals (of white people invading syria and the world being blown up) than a leftist government focused on deescalation. terrorist attacks could easily drive anti-muslim, pro-military sentiments.

If it is because of Corbyn it's because he said "hey maybe stop bombing farmers with suspicious looking goats and work out some kind of loving plan", rather than a distaste for socialism.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 00:52

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

PIGS BREXIT posted:

To be clear, do you guys actually believe that people read about the second coming of Jesus on the internet, and then decide to go do a terrorism to hasten it? And that there is no other influence or motivation for them that brings them to this point?

Is there like one super-convincing web page or something because if so we should definitely block it

edit: let's do it quick before more than 4 people have had a chance to read it

To be clear, individual people are radicalised by a variety of things. ISIS as a whole has a stated goal of trying to cause the apocalypse, which they probably honestly believe and use as a smokescreen for personal power and enrichment, depending on the given guy.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 01:21

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Guy Goodbody posted:

If in that situation you decide to do what the internet man tells you and kill a bunch of people, you're a oval office

I think I should just tape up "Explanations of why things happen aren't personal endorsements of their efficacy or goodness", somewhere.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 01:24

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Paperhouse posted:

I've been out of the loop for all of today, what's been the word on how QT was viewed in the papers and that and are there any new polls. Yes I am a lazy gently caress.

Inexplicably marginally positive towards Corbyn, according to a poll.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 01:51

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Namtab posted:

I'm actively debating concern troll made flesh, which shows that I'm really good at practicing what I preach lol.

Karen's greatest weaknesses have always been from within.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 01:55

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Lord of the Llamas posted:

https://twitter.com/DavidHadley1973/status/871168237765099521

He does know who's in government, right?

80 years of age is the upper limit for cardinals voting on the papacy, because moses.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 02:00

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Namtab posted:

Ban cars ban knives

You could make the edge of a knife flat. Makes it harder to stab with. OTOH, that reduces the utility of the knife.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 02:12

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

OwlFancier posted:

Not sure you can realistically ban sharp objects.

Nah, not at all, but I remember the flat-edge thing coming up a while ago.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 02:24

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

jabby posted:

That's true, but anyone who does it knows they're essentially committing suicide by police. It's horrific and inexcusable, but calling it cowardly feels almost like a deliberate refusal to try and understand the motivations behind the acts.

Maybe it's just me, like I said it just hits my ear wrong so I end up noticing it. I wouldn't even be surprised if people like Sadiq Khan have pre-prepared statements to go out in circumstances like these.

The trouble is people's motives are inherently political, so anything other than the most vague accusations of badness (and polite suggestions for genocide, or at the very least mass displacement, for some inexplicable reason) can't be levelled for fear of "politicising tragedy" in proximity to the event. After the event drops out of the news cycle, nobody wants to talk about it.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 02:28

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Namtab posted:

The idea is that 'cowardly' is a negative trait. What better word is there?

"Right tosser".

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 02:38

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Namtab posted:

No, it's a natural reaction and its the reaction that they want. The thing to do is to remember that its our response that defines us as a society.

Each time we give up a freedom in the name of security. Every time we stigmatize, criticise and control a community in the name of a false integration. Every time we panic and splash their faces on the front page of our national newspapers, reporting their names and their ideology in porous detail. These are all little victories for terrorism, and change who we are as a people.

I wanna take a moment because I didn't catch this last night but namtab is on point.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 11:00

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Yeah Theresa May was explicitly pushing Conservative manifesto pledges like her Orwellian internet plans in that speech (whrn we don't even know if that had anything to do with the attack). It's disgusting and I hope she's called out for it.

Search your heart. You know it won't.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 12:48

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Pochoclo posted:

So uh, what exactly does this mean? Police raiding mosques?

And anyone else May deems a threat.

Guavanaut posted:

What even are British values?

The only ones that spring to mind are the legal contrasts with the continent such as Blackstone's formulation of "it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" compared with Bismarck (and later Wolfgang Sch�uble) stating the inverse, and a preference for analytic philosophy over structuralist and post-structuralist philosophy, but it's clear that May herself isn't a true believer in either.

Rum, sodomy and the lash? It's in the subset at least :v:

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 13:00

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

jBrereton posted:

How is democracy a British value when we have centuries of that not being the case. I think it's more like:

- ripping the piss out of the religious
- drunkenness at work
- fake insincerity

Queues.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 13:12

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

jBrereton posted:

Good point, queuing.

Far and away the weirdest thing about being in france was everyone just barging to the front of stuff all the time.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 13:16

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

JFairfax posted:

new John Pilger piece:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/31/terror-in-britain-what-did-the-prime-minister-know/

Jesus

Is this a credible source? Because if so... christ.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 15:44

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

ronya posted:

hot take time: even in the context of norn iron it was really idiotic for the Leader of the Labour Party to criticise shoot-to-kill, or support shoot-to-kill, or take any stance on shoot-to-kill; the only correct answer is to evade the question and yammer on instead on one's righteous belief in the rule of law (are british vawwues) and the right of all british people to due process in a court of law, which should quite suffice as a wink to your supporters on your stance without giving any bullshit soundbites in an answer to what is by construction a bullshit question.

that come back to haunt you six months later in a way that is entirely foreseeable

you know, and the interviewer knows, that britain has in fact certain obligations on the use of lethal force under the ECHR anyway; you know, and the interviewer knows, that the british people at large don't give a gently caress and want the terrorists dead. there is nothing to be gained in taking the bait. you are not a backbencher any more shut up shut up shut uppppp

So the fact it was presented without context and was actually ruled as being dishonestly presented isn't relevant in any way?

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 19:26

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

learnincurve posted:

I know I'm late to this discussion but I was waiting for the ghouls to sod off before reading the thread.

About this shoot to kill thing. If your attackers have knives then you don't need to shoot to kill unless they have the knife aimed directly at somone's throat, which is unlikely because people will be running around screaming. You aim at their legs if at all possible. You get shot in the leg you are hitting the deck and you can't stab people if you are on the ground. Mr plod is less likely to hit members of the public in the head, and they can get the bad guys into custody afterwards.

The in this is that modern terrorists use texts and the internet so much that they no longer need to actually talk to them to get the information they need, and a nice clean execution avoids giving them the publicity of a trial or the possibility that they will continue to operate within prison.

If you shoot someone in the leg you still have good odds of killing them and miss more. People shoot centre-mass for a reason. You really can't use guns in a non-lethal way, which is why the suggestion that JC wants some kind of less-lethal shooting to occur is patent nonsense.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 19:57

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

waffle posted:

I haven't watched anything on TV, was Corbyn's speech covered by the major networks? It seems like a good one, but i don't see a lot of coverage online.

He hasn't delivered it yet.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 20:16

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

The Insect Court posted:

It's not that I disagree with this stance but I do find it an amusing irony that the thread consensus has moved from "It's the fault of our foreign policy, innit?" to "They're apocalyptic genocidal cultists who can't be reasoned with, only destroyed!" . Doesn't seem as if you can have both be true.

Very easily, if lovely foreign policy allowed an apocalypse cult to become the most powerful group in the region by creating a power vacuum, filling it with ex-military types, and leaving the only plausible leadership religious extremists.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 20:21

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

https://twitter.com/samblackledge/status/871446541084569601

Holy loving poo poo.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 20:45

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Pochoclo posted:

"If you want me to leave, you'll have to call the police"

"Right Bob, would you like to try and go do that, please?"

The Tories, ladies and gentlemen

And here we see a sterling example of the lie that behaviour is only rude if it's shouted or includes swearing, but isn't if it politely states that people should be grateful for subsistence.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 20:49

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Spangly A posted:

Are you deranged?

ISeeCuckedPeople posted:

When you do die, you will be placed before God Almighty and judged for your action and inaction upon these events. Your soul will be found wanting and you will be cast into the firey pits of hell for all you have done.

I think that's "Yes".

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 20:59

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

ISeeCuckedPeople posted:

Oh I agree. We should of invested millions in rebuilding Libya.

Let's just ask the Republican controlled Congress and Senate to approved funds....

Lol you simpleton.

So for clarity your position is that the left need to admit their responsibility for violence inflicted by dictators and warlords, and accordingly be prepared to bomb them to oblivion, but that the right is absolved of any responsibility for not fixing the mess after because it's hard?

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 21:08

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Hoops posted:

I was actually serious, A lot of thread regulars here do not have strong control over their emotions and are unable to understand when someone is not making a literal argument.

I mean, it's still hilarious, it's just hilarious because people are actually thick enough to do the "I have this opinion ironically, joke's on you!" thing in real life.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 21:32

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

baka kaba posted:

Who cares if some random idiot posts sincerely but they're really at home going 'haha I don't think this at all!!!'

do any of us really think anything

perhaps it is we who are the real regressives

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 21:40

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Thanks Ants posted:

It was always quite insulting to the public to make claims about getting tough on terrorism while you've been the party in power for seven years. I'm glad there's now a desire to call her out on it.

I'm just kind of glad people have finally noticed this isn't the opposition pitching new approaches, these are the guys who made these decisions. For some reason "the NHS/police/schools are gonna get better any time now!" thing played well for way too long.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 21:41

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Angepain posted:

just so long as you put off calling an actual election for as long as possible you can apparently barely do anything and your approval rating will skyrocket by default

unless you're Gordon Brown for some reason. maybe he accidentally did some things.

Well, it makes sense. Someone who hasn't done anything is hypothetically anything, even mutually contradictory things. Up until they actually start work, you can still believe they're exactly what you want.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 21:53

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Regarde Aduck posted:

own your words.

to be fair most of this thread's trolls are pretty good at owning themselves

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 21:56

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

BillBear posted:

Brexit was around 64%. I don't know about 82% but I hope we can at least break 70%, especially since Brexit has woken so many of us up, not to mention their manifesto is really youth friendly.

it's this or I never forgive my lovely generation for throwing this away.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 00:07

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

MiddleOne posted:

What does shoot to kill even imply considering that the last three were shot tod death by the police. Do they currently not aim for the torso or something?

It refers to a policy in northern ireland where you'd shoot suspected terrorists outright on the probability they'd be a threat soon.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 12:17

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 04:45

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Owlkill posted:

Isn't there some confusion where it actually refers to pre-emptively killing terrorists (a la the IRA getting taken down in Gibraltar), rather than the use of lethal force generally?

Yes, absolutely.

The UK doesn't have a "shoot-to-kill" policy, it has a "reasonable force" policy, and shooting someone actively trying to stab people while wearing a bomb vest is reasonable force.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 12:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT General Elextravaganza 2017: Lord Buckethead would have won

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