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VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
But in practice it would probably be less if you're crafting them yourself, since you get experience for that too.

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VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Just the damage. You'll usually run out of TP anyway, so doing it faster isn't much use.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

i am tim! posted:

Hey tank chat, just have a question about when it's good to drop into DPS stance while tanking. Back in HW I would play Warrior and drop into Deliverance all the time. Defiance doesn't have the damage received reduction and the extra DPS meant I could bloodthirst crowds and keep my health full on big pulls. I've swapped to Paladin for Stormblood but I'm finding myself cautious about dropping Shield Stance while doing big pulls because of losing out on that 20% damage received reduction; trash can have some serious damage in big packs, after all.

I generally don't drop tank stance on trash, since it gets in the way of the white mage casting holy 15 times in a row, or whatever. With that in mind, it might be worth trying if you're with a scholar. Although, if you do it, you should just click off shield oath. The extra GCD to turn on sword oath won't be worth it.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Jinh posted:

Also a good tip is to tank the boss close to the center of the arena as well as close to the line. His knockbacks won't move you as far since you will hit the wall, and it lets you move north which is handy sometimes for melee.

You can just have him close to the wall and run in front when you get targeted for even less distance. Only stormsplitter is a cleave, so you don't really have to worry about anything, except for certain cloud spawns that can make it awkward.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

SonicRulez posted:

I have a weird perspective. I don't think I've ever seen Susano enrage. Nearly every Lakshmi failure I've been in was due to enrage.

Both fights have an enrage timer that's like 500 years long, Susano just does a better job of cleaning up groups that are sucking that bad.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

A Spider Covets posted:

Lmao

Just me and my duck

Good 'ol Christmas Duck.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

What does a Dark Knight want to meld left side anyway?

As always, it does depend on your exact gear, but for maximizing your personal dps it would very likely be direct hit at this point.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Cao Ni Ma posted:

So what was the one weird trick rotation ninjas had that the developers hated?

The basic rotation is the obvious one, so that's probably referring to some opener nuance, or something like that.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Ainsley McTree posted:

I know I'm bumping a post from 10 pages ago, but do pro whms really not use cure 1? Is the optimal play to skip it entirely and just go straight to cure 2 when all your ogcd heals are unavailable and regen isn't enough?

Cure 1's advantage is mp efficiency, which is basically a non-issue for WHM at this point. You may as well use it when time is not a factor, though, like during phase transitions.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

cheetah7071 posted:

In easy bosses, never use it. Gotta get those sweet assize CD reductions

Depends on how easy. If it ends up saving you a GCD you're way ahead.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Grind intermediate materials and then do the least annoying collectables you have available.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

3 targets is Scatter -> Veraero/thunder

Also two targets if you don't have Jolt 2.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Reiterpallasch posted:

can i stop shitposting briefly to say how hysterical i find it that the devs missed the best ninja rotation twice now

That's probably a mistranslation. Nobody in the ninja channel on The Balance has any loving idea what it could be referring to. The rotation we use is the obviously intended one.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Minrad posted:

iirc is something like a 200-300 potency boost over using it on suiton.

Try 30. 200 potency is more than the difference between suiton and doton to begin with, and you have to use katon instead of raiton.

Or, well, it would be, but doton is bugged, and benefiting from dripping blades right now, so there's an extra 64 tacked on.

e: or, well, it's all doubled because TCJ, but still.

VHGS fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jul 17, 2017

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Minrad posted:

it's closer to 200 in most situations thanks to contagion.

188 with the dripping blades bug. Contagion actually brings them closer because Doton doesn't snapshot debuffs, but you can't stack enough debuffs that rai+sui pulls ahead.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

Huh, is that also what the prize is for finishing the maze quick?

Nope, that gets you damage up and haste.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Josuke Higashikata posted:

The abilities that give you the stacks are just better than it. It has no real niche. If Med 2 ticks give the stack, it might be alright but AoE damage isn't so dangerous that a Cure III and 1 stack PI is going to save anything. The 60s cooldown ain't so useful either. It's basically just Assize but not as good but even more so than it was before.

It's an instant, free aoe heal on top of any aoe heal. Bosses do back to back aoe damage like all the loving time. It's very obviously good.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Those are design issues that oughta be fixed, but Monk doesn't really need to be any stronger.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Countblanc posted:

does someone who knows more about tanks than me want to give me the breakdown on DRK? the ones I'm talking to are pretty adamant that they'll be doing worse damage than paladins and warriors with worse mitigation post-patch, but i don't know what the current numbers look like

Dark Knight will probably still be third place, but on actual fights the damage was quite close before and now it should be even closer.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

LordHippoman posted:

Is there any good trick for getting room in his last phase to dodge the Knights/Fire Patch combo?

Well, now that you know about it, you can get ready in advance. Line yourself up with a gap in the knights, then go forward or backwards when the aoes appear.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Last I heard it was 166.7 per 1% det, which would put the crossover at ~1350 crit (on your gear, so ~1714 on the character sheet).

Also don't forget that the marginal value of a linear stat decreases the more of it you have. Those numbers are for the extreme case where you have no direct hit/det at all.

ChaseSP posted:

E: Also if you are a bard you probably always want crit anyway due to procs being a big part of current bard gameplay

Yep. Even ignoring the value of procs, just having a 10% crit chance buff up all the time bumps the value up a ton.

VHGS fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jul 18, 2017

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Minrad posted:

is this accounting for brd's 2% crit buff and ast/scholar's crit buffs?

Nope. Temporary buffs you're on your own, but just bard buff shifts it up a bit. Like 100 less crit to pass direct hit.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Thundarr posted:

I already have 1600+ crit in 310/320 gear and a Bard in my static so I'm probably good to keep stacking crit forever unless my gear upgrade path causes me to lose a ton before I get it back again.

That's +1600 on your gear, so you'd need 1964 on your character sheet.

(I really wish DET had the same base amount so we didn't have to compare them that way)

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Holyshoot posted:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7mSS9XD1zpKRTg5cmkyeG40dEU/view

the math sheet 2

note, that it's a base effectiveness centered around general effective damage
opener phases / bard presence will skew it

Looks like maybe base crit chance is missing.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Umbreon posted:

I recently hit 52 as a botanist and have been messing around with collectibles, but I think I'm doing something wrong. All the guides I see say to use "reveal with a hit" to start the rotation, but that doesn't seem to be an actual skill. Are they saying I need to not use that one revealing skill for 300gp and instead manually guess at the out of reach slots?

Items are always in the same place, so you don't need to guess. But yeah, you just click on the slot to swing at it, and it'll reveal if you have enough gathering.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Umbreon posted:

So if I know what's in a slot, I just click it, put on the collectors glove, then proceed to appraising but without the 300gp deficit?

Yeah, exactly. It costs a gathering attempt, but you can always get more than one of those out of the gp once you get to 56 or so.

Unrelated, whoever was complaining about crafter yellow scrips the other day, I agree, but also try Blacksmith out. You need some other classes for mats, but it gives a pretty good amount and doesn't take any random drops. I was able to gather up the mats myself and craft enough for about 1500 scrips in under 3 hours.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Even if taking ice was how you got 90% of your points, attacking the enemy team would be really good, because dead dudes can't get objectives.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Kuvo posted:

What materia should i be focusing on for monk? I assume Crit is first because of Deep Meditation, but after that should i go for DH or Det?

Direct Hit is better than Det unless you have a totally unreasonable excess of it.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

cheetah7071 posted:

Mindjack is finicky as gently caress in O3S. Though it's now the only mechanic I still can't do consistently. Progress!

Is there any visual indicator of where to stand that makes you actually be far enough away after mindjack resolves?

e: it occurs to me that this would probably be easier if I tried to run parallel to the edge of the squares, rather than diagonally.

It looks like it sends you exactly two square lengths, which is 1/sqrt(2) -- about 71% -- of the diagonal of the 2x2 area you have to work with. So if you stand roughly in the middle of the square next to your tether guy, and run along the diagonal directly away, you'll end up very close to the opposite corner.

That's what I do every time, and I've never died to it.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

cheetah7071 posted:

So it sounds like, in theory, I could stand in the corner of an adjacent square and walk sideways instead of diagonally

I'm pretty sure at least one person in my group does that. The only downside is that if you're slightly off on the angle you can run into the thorns and die before you can correct with an unlucky server tick.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Asimo posted:

I suspect this is why the SMN tweaks are so hilariously bad

It increases their dps by ~4.5%. Personal dps should be above red mage now.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Nah dude repeatedly bonking people on the head with blizzard 4 in pvp is great.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Only because that would require them to have any idea what the gently caress they're doing.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
It would be pretty dramatically hypocritical for the warrior of light to take this stance, but: killing is badong.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Head Hit Keyboard posted:

Is there even a dodgeable mechanic in this game that doesn't have one of these two things? I can't think of a single one.

Some of the Optical Sights in A11s are like that. There's no circle and the actual spell that hits you is cast by invisible actors.They did say they learned their lesson, though.

Also, I would guess that the cast bar doesn't finish when Titan's fist hits the ground because that would mean he starts the animation before the cast finishes, and the system they have in place makes that difficult, if not impossible.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Hold up. Only three people have done it with Red Mage? God drat.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
The one exception is using raiton as a minor optimization when you know the fight well enough to determine that it won't cost you a GCD, but it doesn't come up very often.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

Ytlaya posted:

Hm, I'll see how things go later, though I feel like the jutsu-based skill (Trick Attack) would inevitably get thrown out of sync with a non-jutsu based one (unless, at some point, you delayed the use of a jutsu in order to guarantee you could use Suiton right before Trick Attack comes back up).

Then again, Trick Attack is so good (and how good it is magnifies based on the size of your group) that I imagine it likely is worth occasionally waiting a bit with jutsus just to ensure you always use it instantly off cooldown.

In practice duality will get thrown out of sync from having to wait for AE, but it doesn't really affect your decisions with it.

Trick Attack's interaction with Ninjutsu's cooldown is complicated by Ten Chi Jin and Kassatsu, because they reset the cooldown, and because you want to use TCJ to get your suiton when possible. If you're not sure, it's generally easier to just hold ninjutsu to avoid delaying trick, until you have a clearer picture of the fight.

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013

DizzyBum posted:

Hmm well I'm definitely looking forward to another 6 months of Eureka hot takes in this thread, that's for sure!

In the good timeline version of this thread we replace Eureka discourse with effortposts about mahjong strategy.

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VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Ayy, got 'em.


Seems like the advanced table plays pretty much like the hints will tell you to. The basics are there, but it has some holes that are pretty noticeable even to me, a scrub. The riichi judgement especially stands out as questionable in a lot of cases.

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