Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

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WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Thanks to SRM and TheChirurgeon for building the new OP. Looks great.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2017 20:41

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 18:42

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

It looks like they confirmed that all re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers are applied to the results.

So, if I'm shooting weapons at a squad that has a -1 to hit modifier, and I'd normally hit on a 3+ (but now need a 4+) the 3's are NOT considered "misses" until AFTER the modifiers ...and therefore can't be re-rolled as part of a "re-roll FAILED rolls to hit" buff.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 18:09

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Enentol posted:

Am I crazy, or are combi-weapons no longer one-use only?

You are correct, they are no longer one-use weapons.

You can choose to fire them as either profile, or fire them as both profiles (suffering a -1 to hit modifier for doing so).

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 23:34

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

You can no longer disembark after the transport has moved in the same turn. What's that about?

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:13

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Soulfucker posted:

They fixed assaulting out of transports.

"Fixed". Now I can't move my transport, disembark and then assault...

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:19

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Soulfucker posted:

Correct. Instead, you disembark 3" (If I remember right), move your units and your transport, then you assault. Open-topped or Assault Vehicle are no longer needed.
Basically it works like it did before 6th edition (where units like Banshees and the like were semi-useable) with the added option of assaulting with your transport at the same time as your unit(s).

They're no longer "needed" to be able to disembark and assault, but the assault range drops now, since I can't move the transport before disembarking from it.

It's better for Berserkers and stuff that couldn't charge from their Rhinos at all, but it's worse for armies that already had "assault vehicles" at their disposal.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:28

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

TheChirurgeon posted:

You can move and assault after you disembark. If you need to keep them in the transport another turn, keep them in the transport.

I understand I can do that. It doesn't solve the problem at all. My assault range is still lower than it was previously. Particularly with Ork Trukks.

I'm glad there's extra tactical flexibility and all that, and it's good to be able to use Rhinos with assault troops. But for armies that were already well equipped to assault out of their transports, you lose at least 3" off of your expected charge range.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:31

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

RagnarokAngel posted:

Seriously it's a net benefit all around. Without access points you can just put your guys 3" in front of the transport, then move 6" (or whatever) THEN charge. That's a pretty impressive distance.

It is. For some units. But not for open-topped transports carrying troops that move less than 6".

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:34

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Soulfucker posted:

I don't think this is necessarily true. Being a Harlequin player, I've already used their Clown Cars in 8th edition games to soak overwatch fire for the squishier Troupes. Hell, between their speed and psychic power buff that lets you move twice I'm not entirely sure they even need transports to get into combat anymore.

Sounds super cool. For Harlequins.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 01:35

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Mind you this is remembering poo poo from 5th edition...

A Battlewagon used to move 12", deploy 2" (effectively 3"), and then assault 6". 21" assault range. Add d6" with a WAAAGH!

Now Orks deploy within 3" of a Battlewagon, move 5", and then assault 2d6". 10" to 20" assault range, average of 15". Add d6" with a Warboss nearby.

So at least for Orks it's definitely reduced.

This is what I've been observing. Granted, assault is still greatly improved over 6th and 7th ...I guess I just wanted to have my cake and eat it too.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 02:06

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Trying out my new lightbox to photograph my manz.

Here's my Marine HQs:

Captain

Darnath Lysander

Captain on Bike

Custom Counts-As Vulkan

Librarian

Terminator Chaplain

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 02:36

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Since there's no entry for a "Boss Nob" in the points index, the current interpretation is that one model in the squad gets a free upgrade (similar to a veteran/sergeant tax) at whatever the base model costs (plus the Nob's wargear, obv.) ...is this accurate to how other Ork players have been paying for Boss Nob upgrades in Boyz squads?

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 13:29

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

goose willis posted:

So did they get rid of heavy armor for Orks?

What about looted wagons?

Both are gone. Some units come with the armor, but it's no longer an upgrade.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 13:35

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Yeah. It says somewhere else (I forgot where) that squad leaders are free upgrades.

That's cool. Since the base squad didn't start with "1x Boss Nob & X Boyz", I thought it was an upgrade I had to pay for...

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 13:45

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Another image dump for my Imperial Fists photographed in my new lightbox:

ELITES

Apothecary:

Company Ancient:

Company Champion:

Company Veterans:

Dreadnought (A):

Dreadnought (B):

Ironclad Dreadnought:

Sternguard Veterans:

Terminator Squad (Assault):

Terminator Squad (Tactical):

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Rhino (A):

Rhino (B):

Razorback (A):

Razorback (B):

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 18:32

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

SRM posted:

Those dirty Imperial Fists look great man. Bet they look great on the tabletop.

Thanks man. I'm really happy with the way they came out. Paint Vagrant and Matt Susalka did a drat fine job.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 18:50

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Here's another dump of my Imperial Fist photos.

Tactical Squad (A):

Tactical Squad (B):

Tactical Squad (C):

Tactical Squad (D):

Drop Pod:

Bike Squad:

Land Speeder (A):

Land Speeder (B):

Stormtalon (A):

Stormtalon (B):

Devastator Squad:

Predator:

Land Raider (A):

Land Raider (B):

Imperial Knight (A):

Imperial Knight (B):

Imperial Knight (C):

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 01:04

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Corrode posted:

Thanks. Shows how long it is since my Ironclad got on the table.

E: also can't see any kind of cost for Ironclad assault launchers.

I think they're a free option for them now...

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 15:49

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Why did GW provide rules for rolling a D3 to determine a warlord trait when the same paragraph says you can just pick whichever one you want?

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 02:44

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Sexual Aluminum posted:

What is the goonsensus on 8th? Pick up the game again, or burn your minis?

I was skeptical, but it's been playing great so far. Simple, intuitive and fast. Big improvement over 6th/7th, IMO.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 14:29

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Pendent posted:

Correct- it makes literally no sense to run plain Sternguard instead of Intercessors.

Except that special-issue bolters are better than bolt rifles. And they can ride in transports. And they can take more than 5 models (and combat squad). And they have better leadership. And the sergeant can take upgrades. This is ignoring all the weapon options they have, since you specified "plain".

I think Company Veterans vs Sternguard are a lot closer now, but there are a lot of legit reasons to take Sternguard over Inercessors.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 23:57

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Pendent posted:

I hate to say it but I just don't see a role for Sternguard that biglies won't be able to fill more effectively once they get their own transports. Maybe bigmarines won't get drop pods and Sternguard will get to keep their niche of suicide deepstrikers.

If you're talking about no upgrades, I'd agree. But there are a lot of things you can do with Sternguard that the Intercessor's can't do.

And they may get a transport, but it might not be as good as a Twin Assault Cannon Razorback is right now.

Between the base weapon being better, options for mass combi-weapons, heavy flamers, and the lack of restrictions, I think there are things they can do that Intercessor's can't.

And even in 5-man squads, Morale does matter. Not a ton, but it does.

Sternguard got nerfed for sure. But I don't think they're completely outclassed by Intercessor's now, for all the reasons I've mentioned.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 01:21

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

chutche2 posted:

But that's the thing.

I said vanilla sternguard are outclassed by intercessors.

Company veterans do all the things that combi weapon sternguard do, plus can take storm shields on every model and are bodyguards for the same base cost per model. There is little to no reason to take sternguard over compaby veterans and intercessors. I guess if you really desperately need the elite slot you save by running a 10 man sternguard squad instead of 2 5-man company veteran squads.

I agree that sternguard and company veterans are very close now. They're largely the same unit, with a handful of small differences.

I disagree about the Intercessors. If you want to pretend sternguard can't take upgrades, or ride in transports, then sure. Bigly marines are more cost effective than bare Sternguard with no upgrades on foot.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 01:36

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

chutche2 posted:

Yes. You have two alternatives for how to run them.

Do you want bare sternguard? Take intercessors. Do you want sternguard with upgrades? Take company veterans. I'm not pretending anything, there are different ways to run sternguard (bare and not bare) and there is a unit that covers each of those better than sternguard does.

There is no third option that makes sternguard better than just taking one of those other two choices, other than being 10 models for 1 elite slot.

The "handful of small differences" is company veterans get more wargear options and an extra special rule for no cost increase. Hell, sternguard specifically can't take a thunder hammer unlike every other sergeant, including tactical sergeants, for no real reason, They have much more limited wargear options, and trade that by having better bolters by default. But if you trade those better bolters out for something else you get an inferior unit.

Sternguard Veterans can take Heavy Flamers. 2 of them even... in a 5-man squad. You can take a squad size anywhere between 6 and 10. As you mentioned, you can take a squad of 10 and combat squad them into 2 squads of 5 for a single Elites slot. And if you have a mixture of base weapons and heavy weapons, the base weapons are better. And a squad of 5 guys is 7 powerlevel points instead of 9.

I'm not arguing that other options aren't more cost-effective. But it's disingenuous to say that there's no reasons to take Sternguard over Intercessors or Veterans, when there clearly are.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 02:24

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Pendent posted:

Just lol if you can't take heavy flamers on your devastator squads

You can't.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 02:56

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Geoff Zahn posted:

Welp that awesome army list builder got a C/D

Really? poo poo...

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 16:24

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Honestly, regular Marines have been outperforming the Primaris in a pretty significant way. In order to make them more competitive, I think they're going to need wargear options and a transport that can compete with a Razorback to start replacing them. Right now, even ignoring their lack of transports, their inability to grab wargear options really hamstrings their battlefield role flexibility. Unless future Primaris can take tactically specialized weapon equivalents in the Intercessor squads, I just don't think they're going to be widespread upgrades to conventional Marine lists.

Hellblasters, on the other hand, have been quite good. Their weapons are very good.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 17:57

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Not the biggest fan of Land Raiders in 8th in general, but the Crusader has a seriously huge volume of fire it can put out...

And TH/SS Terminators can unleash a pretty serious amount of 3-damage attacks. :black101:

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 18:06

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

SRM posted:

I guarantee Primaris Marines will be getting some more options once they get multpart kits - if nothing else, I bet their sergeants will get some sort of equipment options. I know they're supposed to be more "legion-like" in how they distribute wargear, but even in 30k you can deck out a sergeant with equipment.

Oh, I'm sure they will. I just hope they don't get a transport that's better than a Razorback combined with special weapon options like "two specials per 5 guys AND sergeant options" or something like that. I don't want the Primaris to render the regular Marines obsolete ...or anything close to it.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 20:17

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

I like the way they did random shots on the Thunderfire Cannon. 4D3 shots is just so much more consistent than shots generated on D6 rolls. They could've done something like that for Battle Cannons instead...

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 13:24

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

I heard a rumor that Primaris will be getting their own Codex. I hope that's true. And I hope they have:

Faction Keywords: IMPERIUM, ADEPTUS ASTARTES, PRIMARIS, <CHAPTER>

So there can be a distinctive delineation between traditional Space Marines and Primaris ...Even if it's largely ceremonial.

Edit: Here - https://spikeybits.com/2017/06/8th-edition-codex-release-schedule.html

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 16:34

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

I didn't say it was reliable, I said it's a rumor I heard.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 16:39

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Can confirm. Plan on building Ork Biker Warboss. Am madman.

That way you can have one model that can be the best unit from either codex...

# ¿ Jun 30, 2017 02:17

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Got another game of 8th edition in today.

1. Orks are good, and they murder poo poo in close combat (which happens on T2 with regularity).
2. Orks have a problem dealing with flyers.

3. Twin assault cannons are a hell of a drug. That gun needs a points adjustment when the real Marine codex drops.
4. Don't forget that "hovering" Stormtalons can be charged by non-flying stuff. drat-near cost me a game. o.0

LingcodKilla posted:

It physically hurts me to read the new codexes. Who the hell thought that organizing entries by battlefield role was bullshit and stuff should just get willy-nilly.

This. All day this. :mad:

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 01:34

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Flyers are definitely a challenge. I think Stormboyz might be helpful.

I think so too. I think they're super underrated right now. Same power points as Boyz (or only 2 more point per model) for 8" movement base and the ability to Waaagh! on their own even without a nearby Warboss is so baller. Plus they ignore all models and terrain when moving, and can assault flying units.

Even a fully loaded Dakkajet firing all its shots at a Stormtalon only inflicts 0.98 wounds/turn...

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 14:58

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Yes, Lootaz are solid anti vehicle options, including flyers. They will wound 'Talons on a 3 and deal 2 damage each. But he'll only be hitting on sixes...

He can only take 1 Klaw in the Stormboyz squad, regardless of size. But it can go up to a mob of 30 if he wanted to (or had the models).

Missing with all his Klaw attacks was certainly unfortunate; it's usually where like half the damage comes from against MEQ stuff.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 15:37

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Q. The Ork Battlewagon�s Mobile Fortress ability says the
Battlewagon �ignores the penalty for moving and firing Heavy
weapons�. Its Open-topped ability says that �restrictions and
modifiers that apply to this model also apply to its passengers�.
Does that mean that a unit embarked also ignores the penalty
for firing Heavy weapons if the battlewagon has moved?
A. No.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 18:30

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Weapon positions relative to their locations on vehicle hulls no longer matter, correct? There's no firing arcs or anything like that, and all vehicle weapons can "see" in every direction in 8th edition, correct? This includes flyers even though they have a fixed direction they have to fly in?

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 18:56

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Stormhawk Interceptors and Stormtalons both have a special rule called Interceptors ...Except the Stormhawk's gives it a bonus against units that fly and the Stormtalon's gives it a bonus against units that cannot fly.

I assume the distinction was intentional (one's better at shooting at flyers and one's better at shooting non-flyers) but was the confusion caused by naming both of the rules the same thing also intentional? :stare:

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 19:15

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 18:42

WhiteWolf123: Jun 18, 2008; The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

Also, still no points modification to Thunder Hammers vs Power Fists on non-character units ...even though they're the same points cost and there's literally no reason whatsoever to take a Power Fist over a Thunder Hammer in the current rules... Sigh.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 19:17

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