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Willa Rogers posted:whiskey the juvenile posted this in the old thread: that addresses the 18-21 portion, maybe (not like Ohioans don't go in-state), but what about 22-28?
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Jun 22, 2017 00:26
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paranoid randroid posted:like bear in mind the convention has to write its own rules for things like delegations and good luck getting 2/3rds of the states to agree on anything right now New York and California demand that states get delegations based strictly on population, where Wyoming gets one delegate and California gets 78, and everything gets passed by a convention-wide majority vote
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Jun 22, 2017 00:30
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Willa Rogers posted:most grad-school students are older than 21, and those would be the ones most likely coming from out of state. most 21-29s aren't grad students. like maybe 50k out of some 2 million people
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Jun 22, 2017 01:16
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e: hold on
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Jun 22, 2017 01:58
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anime was right posted:sorry, i should restate: that 200k figure is the amount of out-of-state students that would be potentially affected by that disenfranchisement law Meanwhile there's like 1.7m people 18-29, so even disenfranchising all 200k out of state students, you'd be effecting turnout changes by like 11%; but turnout was flat. Meanwhile UK saw a 30% increase in youth turnout from 2015. If that were replicated here, even assuming you get disenfranchisement by turning away out of state drivers licenses from college youth, it'd still be like 25% increase. Meanwhile, youth turnout in the primary under Bernie was flat. And it's not like you can say "oh, it's the primary, turnout is lower than the general election". Yes, that's the case, but it's not the case that primary turnout is necessarily static from year to year, as it was from 2008 to 2016.
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Jun 22, 2017 02:04
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Anyway my point isn't that the Democrats shouldn't run as a party on a leftist platform, but rather that there seems to be this sense that doing so would be a silver bullet while there doesn't appear to be any reason to suspect that this is the case. I mean the status quo didn't work so I'm happy to give it a shot, but I think the left needs a lot more organization than merely around an electoral strategy.
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Jun 22, 2017 02:07
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like my post in Suck Zone Past disagreeing with someone about how The Democrats are the only available avenue to see change enacted, and I'm just thinking that the Civil Rights Era gains were because people organized outside the auspices of any party, much less the Democratic party, and I think that's the best avenue going forward. Like there's the whole (idiot) debate over whether MLK Jr. was a Democrat or Republican, which really misses the point as opposed to "what did he stand for" and "what did he accomplish"
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Jun 22, 2017 02:10
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like the Republicans are a weak party, but conservatives are a strong movement
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Jun 22, 2017 02:12
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nobody's quaking in their boots over the political acumen of Reince Preibus, yet we're all acting like the fate of the world is tied up in Perez. Sure, whatever, he may very well suck but why the gently caress is anyone acting like that's at all dispositive to anything?
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Jun 22, 2017 02:13
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Serf posted:mlk was a communist yes, I know
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Jun 22, 2017 02:34
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got any sevens posted:know what else happened in that era? mass assassinations of anyone left, or blacklisting. and turnout in primaries in 2016 was low because of: he'd just won Michigan the week before, and it's not like 100% of registered voters vote so there was room to drive turnout
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Jun 22, 2017 02:36
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:wj: "status quo isn't working, but damned if I know what's gonn--OOH WHAT'S THIS??." hmm no this looks like status quo chasing Trump voters actually (also it would be evil)
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Jun 22, 2017 03:00
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:the joke being that you constantly claim to be a leftist yet post nothing but reasons why left ideas won't work therefore nothing should be done because we're all going to die I don't post that they won't work, just how likely they are to actually come to pass.
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Jun 22, 2017 03:20
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Willa Rogers posted:yah, and I just looked up the exit polling on the OH dem primary and just lolol at whiskey-the-juvie bc 18-29 year olds in OH went sanders over clinton 81 percent to 19 percent and that age group comprised 15 percent of the OH primary vote (and 19 percent of the OH general-election vote). I'm not questioning that Bernieism is wildly popular among Democratic-voting youth; his theory of the campaign wasn't margin-based but turnout-based, though e: that is, as a share of the primary vote, the 18-29 were also around 15% in 2008; it doesn't seem that Sanders brought out new voters, merely won already existing ones and when it comes to building a party or movement or whatever, we've all been talking about the non-voter itt WhiskeyJuvenile has issued a correction as of 06:12 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 06:00
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good mobilizing is cool and good
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Jun 22, 2017 06:04
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GalacticAcid posted:Hahah holy poo poo wasn't he in the navy for like a week before getting booted for having a dumb rear end foot that he's doing a stolen valor seems like it'd be a plus with the twitter dirtbag left crowd tho
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Jun 23, 2017 00:56
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https://twitter.com/joeprince___/status/877982889857527808
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Jun 23, 2017 01:00
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https://twitter.com/ddddarby/status/877952289016758272
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Jun 23, 2017 01:03
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https://twitter.com/WeedMubarak/status/878040694350204931
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Jun 23, 2017 01:05
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paranoid randroid posted:Are you FOR the Lion Assad? i believe in evidence-based politics, and the evidence says that the curse of "assad must go" is real and strong and my friend
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Jun 23, 2017 01:18
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Willa Rogers posted:the schism/faction thing in the party is irrevocable, at this point... there's not going to be any dem electoral victories for the near future bc so many berdies won't vote for bad dems anymore while lanyards are sticking with their corporate-donors-and-pragmatic-baby-steps-are-just-fine-and-who-needs-single-payer-anyway scripts. 
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Jun 23, 2017 07:06
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https://mobile.twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/878222050678063104 https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/878222650115592194 WhiskeyJuvenile has issued a correction as of 14:12 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 14:06
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:ironstache status update: still not a milkshake duck https://twitter.com/IronStache/status/840242514942672896
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Jun 23, 2017 19:03
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https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/status/878303312746995713
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Jun 23, 2017 19:05
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https://twitter.com/seanmcelwee/status/878359850052440064
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Jun 23, 2017 22:28
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Congrats bitch u mentioned hrc and now ur permabanned if only
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Jun 23, 2017 23:49
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:still not a milkshake duck: my man
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Jun 24, 2017 00:35
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Jun 24, 2017 00:44
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this guy, 2020: https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/878369401120014337
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Jun 24, 2017 01:15
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https://twitter.com/kimkardashian/status/878411406361542656
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Jun 24, 2017 01:45
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I get, in light of everything, why the push for single payer is important, and the momentum towards positive change is definitely in its favor, vs. something like French multipayer. Having said that, I think it's important to remember that there's a significant chunk of people for whom single payer won't be a significant material benefit - because they're healthy and don't have medical costs currently. Yes, of course there's a very significant peace of mind that single payer would give, but the economic malaise of poo poo like the gig economy isn't going to be ameliorated by providing health coverage. So talk about it, but don't make it the entirety of your pitch.
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Jun 24, 2017 13:14
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NewForumSoftware posted:actually it benefits everyone to not have tens of thousands of people dying every year from lack of health insurance if people voted on the basis of giving a poo poo about other people... we'd be in a real different world Condiv posted:actually singlepayer would help people trapped in the gig economy cause they would have benefits and health care! like I said: I think it's a good thing at this point and if that's the most we can get, it's still a great accomplishment.
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Jun 24, 2017 13:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:Right up until the moment that they're not. again, if people voted on that basis, we'd be living in a very different world the suggestion isn't that single payer isn't a good idea, it's that it's not the best thing to centerpiece a campaign around, vs. poo poo like "here's how we're gonna put more money in your pocket" - which, for most people, single payer wouldn't, at least not in the short term.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:05
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even for those people who understand why they need health coverage even if they're not sick, the material gains from having that seem less than like, say, guarantees of good employment
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Jun 24, 2017 16:25
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all this is to say that i'd like to hear the 2020 version of bernie talk more about labor
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Jun 24, 2017 16:27
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Condiv posted:speaking as someone who had a nice little period of insurancelessness for 6 years, this is not true. even though i didn't get anything terrible during that time, if I had any kind of issue I just had to hope it wasn't something more severe cause i sure as gently caress couldn't afford to get it checked. i remember when i first learned i have winter eczema, a patch appeared on my arm and kept growing over weeks, and not knowing what it was i had no idea what to do. worse, it was turning yellow and gross looking., so i was freaked the hell out that I had some sort of skin fungus and that I was literally rotting away while living. my dad finally spotted me $100 so i could see a dermatologist and I learned I needed special lotions in winter to keep my skin healthy, but i was lucky that I had parents that could do that for me. I mean I don't think there are any downsides to single payer, political or policy-wise, in 2017 but I still think there needs to be something more; like you can still be a shitlord neoliberal and be in favor of single payer: witness pre-Corbyn Labour or like French politics or some poo poo
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Jun 24, 2017 16:34
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Condiv posted:you certainly cannot be a neoliberal and be in favor of singlepayer. neoliberal economics decries all government spending as waste. I see the rehabilitation of Tony Blair is proceeding nicely
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Jun 24, 2017 16:39
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Condiv posted:he's lying to improve his appeal in these times where neoliberalism is being equated with literally burning the poor for a quick buck. this should have been super obvious to you though since we're discussing a man who lied to his country so he could kill iraqis with his best pal gwb you're fundamentally saying that neoliberalism only exists in America, which we know is wrong
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Jun 24, 2017 16:50
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right, single payer adherents talk about how the tax increase on employers will be less than the premiums they're playing, right? all it requires is for capital-friendly politicians to throw insurers overboard in favor of the walmarts and whatnot, and that's not outside the realm of possibility
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Jun 24, 2017 16:56
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SKULL.GIF posted:what a blatantly dishonest response for instance, as we all know, Macron's totally calling for dismantling the French health coverage system.
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Jun 24, 2017 18:32
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