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I like how AOTC is basically a matryoshka doll of deceit and dualism. The movie goes to fairly extreme lengths to disorient the viewer. Like, why are Padme and Zam Wesell in matching outfits? But then it turns out that Zam has this ogre-like interior. And that she's actually just working for Jango Fett. And Jango is just working for Count Dooku, who is actually Darth Tyranus, who is working for Darth Sidious, who is actually Chancellor Palpatine. What? edit: is Cnut the Great gone? I miss his extremely interesting effort posts 
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Oct 14, 2017 01:50
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UmOk posted:What was this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsqqLeVc-b0&t=179s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i94r3-zOhoc Her costume is really just a match with Captain Typho, but the resemblance is undeniable.
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Oct 14, 2017 02:06
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He's been posting in GBS as of a few days ago. I think he's fine.
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Oct 14, 2017 02:36
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I always thought it was kind of dumb and poorly executed how Dooku front flips over the railing right before he fights Obi-Wan and Anakin in ROTS. But then I realized it has the effect of a bat apparating into a vampire/Dracula. Cool entrance.
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Oct 14, 2017 17:49
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That really isn't the case at all. Just because they shout in that scene doesn't make it the only "genuine" or "heartfelt" moment in that movie or the trilogy. Check out the scene near the beginning of the second act in the hallway between Obi-Wan and Anakin where Obi-Wan tells Anakin that he's going to be have to be an informant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AvpT3YxQb8
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Oct 15, 2017 01:49
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well why not posted:It's a weird movie in that regard. Obi Wan is kinda just hanging out for half of it. In the first drafts, Obi-Wan was essentially playing the role of Qui-Gon, which is sort of reflected in your observation. I think Lucas ended up scrapping that because it didn't give Obi-Wan much of a dynamic to play off of, and the age difference between him and Anakin might've been a little screwy.
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Oct 17, 2017 00:20
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U2 on the cover of Rolling Stone? Has that ever happened before?
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Nov 30, 2017 02:54
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I'm here to report that a sebulba was edited into Jabba's palace in the blu-ray ROTJ and it's pretty cool.
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Dec 6, 2017 01:08
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viral spiral posted:This would be amazing. If she's Luke's daughter then she's already a Palpatine.
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Dec 8, 2017 13:28
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A lot has been made of the fact that Star Wars is a pop pastiche that synthesizes and riffs on a lot of Lucas' interests, and that Attack of the Clones stands out as the film with probably the most thinly veiled homages (to controversial effect, as evidenced by this thread). In revisiting AOTC I noticed that not only were the references and homages much more on the nose and less sublimated than any other film or scene in the saga (save, perhaps, for the Sail Barge fight), but that a large majority of them evoked a distinctly 1950's American aesthetic. This is most obvious in the diner, as well as the flying taxis. But it doesn't seem to me that any of the other 5 films were so distinctly located in time like AOTC was. Has Lucas ever spoken about this or explained why he did that?
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Dec 10, 2017 00:04
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The premiere is tonight, so we should have some breathless hyperbole by tomorrow morning to get hyped about.
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Dec 10, 2017 02:52
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viral spiral posted:Please don't. It's clear you're more interested in typing up irrelevant, tangential word salad (with a flavor of contrarianism) in order to make yourself look smart. Sure, I'll bite. What is incoherent about it?
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Dec 10, 2017 21:58
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viral spiral posted:The Phantom Menace did not even have a main protagonist. It's clear Lucas did not have anyone proofread the first draft for him. If this is the first of your many undefendable fusillades please consider this my white flag. Your critique is simply too airtight.
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Dec 10, 2017 22:14
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Agreed this is why Magnolia has consistently been regarded as one of the worst movies of the 2000s.viral spiral posted:Who's the main protagonist of TPM? You are free to identify with literally any character on screen. Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Padme, Anakin, Shmi, the choice is yours! Also a lack of protagonists that an audience can identify with isn't "incoherent", that's not what that word means. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 10, 2017 |
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Dec 10, 2017 22:40
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Maybe you should be more precise in your critique. What aspect of the film is "non-linear"?
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Dec 10, 2017 22:44
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It's a children's movie you idiot. The answer is yes: kids are supposed to identify with the kid onscreen. Who is the main antagonist? Well let's see the main antagonist of the prior film was the Emperor, Darth Vader, and some stormtroopers. Now the antagonists are the Emperor, his previous acolyte who is a demon with a giant red lightsaber, and some droids that function as stormtroopers. Is this that difficult for you? Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Dec 10, 2017 |
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Dec 10, 2017 22:47
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viral spiral posted:Palpatine hasn't revealed himself as a Sith Lord yet The emperor shows up literally in the first two minutes of the film.
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Dec 10, 2017 22:57
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viral spiral posted:The protagonist(s)* didn't know that. You are unaware of the basic literary conceit of dramatic irony.
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Dec 10, 2017 23:01
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viral spiral posted:Well, I'm glad a forums user with a racist username such as yours is here to educate me about it! You're welcome. I recommend you start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Dramatic_irony. Sincerely, Someone who is Jewish. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 10, 2017 23:09
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So many of the characters in the ST are just wasted or under-utilized or whatever. This thread has already pretty much reached consensus about how Finn was wasted, but the completely bizarre re-apperance of Maz also just served to highlight how no one behind these movies seems to know what the hell to do with these characters. She randomly disappeared from TFA after her final scenes were cut, and now she shows up in that random hologram, eschewing all of the pseudo/caffeine-free Yoda mysticism she had in TFA? It makes no sense. Further, with Rey, it seems like her arc pretty much ends after the showdown in the Emperor's throne room. Worse still, her whole reason for being there, which is supposed to echo Luke's premature journey to Bespin is entirely undercut by the fact that it tries to smoosh ESB and ROTJ together. Why does Rey even give a poo poo about Kylo, and why does she feel compelled to turn him? Luke doesn't go to Bespin to turn Vader, he goes to save his friends. Rey goes to meet Kylo because she somehow feels drawn to this murderous psychopath because he keeps rudely ForceTiming her? Or wait, she's actually just being Sith mindtricked by Snoke that whole time? In which case it just reinforces the criticism of her from TFA that she seems to lack agency and is constantly being pulled forward by mechanisms beyond her control. I really enjoyed the general conceit of Kylo and Rey's conversations in the beginning of the movie, but I'm still just not sure what draws her to him. "He kidnapped me, attempted to mindrape me, murdered my surrogate father, nearly murdered my adopted brother, flung me against a tree, and then tried to kill me, but I'm oddly interested in becoming friends with him...?" Also not enough has been made of the fact that the #1 reason these sequels seem to lack a certain something is because John Williams has sadly run out of team in his twilight years. Go back and listen to the ESB score to see just how incredibly evocative and dynamic it is. The ST scores so far sound a lot more like his Harry Potter work than Star Wars. It's serviceable, and the leitmotifs for Rey and Kylo are pretty good, but it lacks the dynamism and whimsy of the originals. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 01:58
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Another critical component of the OT (and to a lesser degree the PT) that really feels notably absent in TFA and TLJ is the wonderful settings. ESB in particular has incredible sets throughout the film. Echo base, Dagobah, the carbon freezing chamber and the air shaft are totally iconic. Between TFA and TLJ there's very little that feels uniquely imaginative in a way that isn't a tired riff on an existing set from the OT. Canto Bight was pretty interesting, but the pace of it (and its general uselessness to the overall plot) made it feels somewhat frenetic and unmemorable. The characters move through the casino floor, but nothing much happens in that space, and the jail is completely vapid. The costuming on the guards was pretty good though.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:11
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PostNouveau posted:He's willing to train her; he told her as much at the end of the last film. She reasons that she just needs to get him on her side so he can do that. Yes, that makes sense from Kylo's perspective. It's an adolescent perspective. But why would Rey want Ben's training? She defeated him and demonstrated that she is already more adept than he is, and now she's palling around with his former master. So far as she's concerned, Ben doesn't really have anything to teach her. It strains credulity to imagine that she'd put aside all the hosed up stuff he's done to her and her friends for the sake maybe levelling up. And you're correct that it's meant to echo ROTJ, but it's ESB and ROTJ both, so the message gets totally muddled.
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Dec 20, 2017 02:55
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Yes, that’s part of what made Episode II great
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Dec 20, 2017 17:19
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I think we all understand that thematically, but he unsheaths his sword- it strains credulity to imagine Luke getting that close to the brink after having ascended to a Zen-like passivity. It's also an explicit callback to Mace Windu attempting to assassinate the Emperor, which is just a weird parallel to draw because as Cnut says it implies that Luke is only marginally more prudent than his predecessors.Arist posted:I honestly cannot fathom as a viewer complaining that a person changed over a period of decades. Do you think Siddartha needs a sequel where he basically falls off the wagon for a while before getting back on it?
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Dec 21, 2017 01:02
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Arist posted:Why does it strain credulity? From Luke's perspective, this is the only chance he has to prevent everything from happening again. Because most level-headed people don't try to murder children. Only Luke's father does that. Also you can't just say "cycles". Just because the plot moves in cycles doesn't mean that most characters in Star Wars don't have linear progressions. dont even fink about it posted:Luke, who hacked his father's arm off in a fit of rage, would never lose his cool. What happened directly after that? I can't remember. Like what is the point of telling these stories if each character is stuck in a cynical recursion? It's meaningless.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:20
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Arist posted:Here's the problem: You're pretending Luke's arc ended in ROTJ. This is the next phase of that progression: into the person who makes the mistakes the next generation has to clean up. They have artistic license to do that. It clearly works for a lot of people. I think it's bad writing. A random person might be tempted in that kind of moment, but not the Luke from the end of ROTJ. The whole point of the "cycles" talk is that Luke is the person to break these types of cycles by espousing non-violence. He's Christ-like. You don't think maybe he'd first try to have a heart to heart with his nephew before beheading him?
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Dec 21, 2017 01:32
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Tender Bender posted:It's not even a lapse in judgment, he didn't even do it. This feels like arguing with your girlfriend because you maybe turned your head a tiny bit when a hot girl walked by. Nah more like your nephew wakes up and sees you pointing a gun at his face.
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Dec 21, 2017 02:02
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The reason it's dumb is because there's Greek irony at play when Anakin sees the future and kills Padme in the act of becoming Darth Vader. He thinks he sees the future, and in trying to bend it to his will, he makes manifest the future he was seeing but only through a glass, darkly. His visions were correct, but simply incomplete. With Luke, we know he has much more clairvoyance about the future. He knows that Ben is going to turn to the dark side and that his fate is sealed (otherwise, if he thought there was only a chance, he wouldn't risk killing him). By attempting to murder him, he is allowing himself enact the future that he can see right in front of him. Luke knows from ROTJ that the only way to avoid that is passivity, to let life runs its course, to not control things. If he can see into the future and realize that Ben's turn to the dark side is precipitated by Luke's attempted assassination, why would he step into that tent? It would be the equivalent of Anakin have a premonition that Padme dies because of Anakin's attack on her, and yet he does it anyway. Greek tragedy only works if you think you're doing the right thing, but can't forsee the ironic consequence. In this case, Luke knows what he's doing is bad, and knows the consequence.
Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 15:09
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I don't think he sees that his attempted murder is the reason for Ben's fall, just that Ben falls and the death he will cause But that's the paradox that Luke is aware of. No matter what he does, Ben is turning to the dark. No intervention can stop this. So he's only endangering his own soul but going down this path. Plot and character-wise, there would be an easy way to fix this. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, TLJ essentially presents Luke with the "would you go back in time and kill baby Hitler" dilemma. The movie would've been smarter to have Luke reject the decision outright because Murder 1 is bad under any circumstance. Luke does this knowing Ben will turn dark and kill millions anyway. His self-imposed exile is his way of dealing with the guilt and shame of his passivity. TLJ could then basically run the same course, with Luke finding a way to "act", while eating his cake too Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 15:54
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One parallel I did like in TLJ was between ForceTiming and the hyperspace tracking. Both new "technologies" essentially allowed the FO/Ren/Snoke to radically collapse the distance between them and The Resistance/Rey/Luke. Though I think the entire hyperspace tracking was a bit clumsily implemented and found the whole space "chase" a huge bore, it's still a neat way to bridge the two narrative strings in this movie and make the heroes feel like they've essentially been pinned with nowhere to go. Although it's interesting that Luke's reaction to this is to turn and face Ren, while the Resistance seems to find honor in not being reckless and instead retreating and regrouping.
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Dec 21, 2017 16:59
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Powered Descent posted:One thing that struck me as odd: Why are Finn and Rose flying speeders in the end battle? They aren't pilots. They're janitor-warriors.. For the same reason [they let Luke get in an x-wing at the end of ANH to be one of like 5 people who would attack the death star, even though the only person in the Rebellion who even knew him at that point was Leia The one I can never overlook though is how odd it is that at the end of TFA, the Resistance somehow feels that Rey is the best person to go to Ach-To and find Luke. They barely know this woman! And now the fate of the galaxy is in her hands? Why not just send Leia, or some trusted General?
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Dec 23, 2017 15:24
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Pops Mgee posted:Luke knew Biggs who vouched for his piloting skills. I get it. It's Star Wars. I'm just saying the poster's question about TLJ has the same justification in previous movies, which is all kind of weak and unbelievable from a realism perspective, but you're not supposed to think too hard about it.
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Dec 23, 2017 15:57
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business hammocks posted:Adam Driver being a nazi because he’s a pathetic insecure dork makes more sense than Darth Vader switching sides in a war because he was afraid his wife would leave him. Was that really your takeaway from Revenge of the Sith?
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Dec 23, 2017 16:39
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In TFA he said his job was "sanitation" and then later displays knowledge of where to find the trash compactor. You're right to be confused because our introduction to him is as a shock trooper committing My Lai on a bunch of villagers in search of Luke Skywalker. So he's either the First Order equivalent of Seal Team Six or he mops floors. The movie couldn't make up its mind.
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Dec 23, 2017 18:23
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If the characterization was well-considered, you wouldn't have to bend and stretch the narrative that the story delivers to you in order to make basic sense of who the heroes are and where they come from. This isn't one of those subtleties that is meant to be picked over and debated, it's just "incoherent", to borrow a term from a prequel detractor. There's deliberate ambiguity, which is what Star Wars often excels at, and there's inconsistent plotting and characterization for the sake of convenience, which is what TFA seems to lean on an awful lot. This is just a more minor version of the First Order discussion that I think even sequel trilogy fans have conceded- that the First Order makes no sense in terms of plot or politics, and was shoehorned into TFA as a mechanism by which the dynamic between plucky rebels and towering Empire could be reset. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 19:06
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Question: there’s a shot of C-3PO at the end where he’s backlit with floodlight, and you can basically only make out his silhouette and his glowing eyes, looking like a classic alien. It feels like a reference to something but I can’t figure out what. My mind keeps traveling to the original cover of John Carpenter’s The Thing, but I don’t think that’s quite it edit: I think it’s the glowing eyes from Ghostbusters II Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 05:13
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Cnut the Great posted:The visual theme of the scene is black leather and fire, representing temptation and passion. Anakin speaks of being scarred and unable to breathe. The whole thing is obviously prefiguring Mustafar and Anakin's transformation into Vader. Awesome. Its fun on rewatch to see that Padme’s hair and the lighting mirrors their final conversation on Mustafar, and that some of the lines are repeated in an even darker light in ROTS (“you’re going down a path I can’t follow”, “I will do whatever you ask”)
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Dec 31, 2017 09:22
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No, Anakin was let it on the secret, then Mace Windu went to assassinate Palpatine, and then Yoda sent Obi-Wan to kill his own brother. Remember, it was Anakin who decided to put away his weapon and report on Palpatine. He knew that assassination wasn't right, and he reported on Palpatine despite knowing that might jeopardize his ability to save Padme. He was very close to doing the right thing, and then snapped in a moment of panic.
Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 00:24
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McCloud posted:So did Sheevs do that knowing Anakin would squeal to Mace, and that they'd launch a coup? "Everything is going according to my design" should be taken somewhat literally. Palpatine is a sort of meta-author who stands above every other Star Wars character (that is, until his own creation rises up and destroys him like Frankenstein. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-field-guide-to-the-musical-leitmotifs-of-star-wars For anyone interested in John Williams and film scoring, this is essential reading. I was pretty down on the score for TLJ, but this definitely is convincing me to revisit it. And to link another article from within that: https://www.elitedaily.com/p/the-last-jedi-music-reveals-more-about-kylo-ren-than-you-realize-exclusive-7664753
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Jan 5, 2018 01:17
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Serf posted:oh poo poo, nice Uh, does everyone get that "new Star Wars trilogy" in this context refers to VII VIII and IX, and not the new-new trilogy that Johnson is doing?
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Jan 5, 2018 02:28
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