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naem: May 29, 2011

Here is a really good hour long video about possible causes of the Bronze Age collapse on YouTube if anyone's interested, he talks a lot about the interconnected economy of the whole region being necessary to finance Bronze production and how fragile the whole thing was

https://youtu.be/bRcu-ysocX4

# ¿ Oct 15, 2017 00:56

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# ¿ May 20, 2024 23:44

naem: May 29, 2011

# ¿ Oct 15, 2017 04:01

naem: May 29, 2011

I think the drive to make useful iron/steel wasn't there until the tin supply (to make bronze with) became unreliable.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2017 05:57

naem: May 29, 2011

Inescapable Duck posted:

So basically, bronze requires more materials and thus is more expensive to make, but easier to work with at the start, while iron is harder to use but incredibly useful once you figure out how?

Yes exactly. Bronze also doesn't rust and can be reused; its not as strong as steel but after a battle you can pick up the broken pieces of damaged gear and melt it down and pour into a mold for more swords etc

Iron is like everywhere though and once people were forced (from lack of tin to make bronze with) to try to make crude steel (iron is soft and alloying/hardening it takes crazy high temperatures) they realized EVERYONE could have metal tools/weapons

# ¿ Oct 15, 2017 17:50

naem: May 29, 2011

poverty goat posted:

what did the romans ever do for us

stabbing

# ¿ Oct 16, 2017 05:56

naem: May 29, 2011

swards

https://youtu.be/8VApzdlG4wo

https://youtu.be/ngjMtzJ6xgQ

https://youtu.be/ym7pSgT_Reg

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 03:19

naem: May 29, 2011

Pac-Manioc Root posted:

that was conan times, right?

they were probably on a quest for some kind of magical circlet, or in a battle with the thralls of an evil wizard

Conan was set in the the chaotic dark ages after Bronze Age civilization collapse and before the Iron Age reorganized people back into nation states, especially the part with the giant snake

# ¿ Oct 23, 2017 20:30

naem: May 29, 2011

Inescapable Duck posted:

I recall learning in Classical Studies that a lot of Homeric stories and mythology were basically the Greeks looking back at a bygone era before the collapse and reformation of civilisation, a historical wild west where anything could have happened.

Since bronze doesn't rust we have this wealth of amazing material culture to study from this era (and lots of curiosity as a result) but very few solid facts. We still have to guess about things to this day.

These are 3000 year old swords from China as sharp as the day they were made-

# ¿ Oct 24, 2017 19:26

naem: May 29, 2011

Prettz posted:

And how did the people in the eastern Mediterranean regions and Mesopotamia get so much more advanced than everyone else early on? Does it just boil down to "trade hub"?

The Nile, Tigris and Euphrates rivers all flood every year like clockwork, dumping silt (swamp muck) everywhere which is perfect fertilizer. You can just run around giggling manically throwing handfuls of wheat everywhere and it's like boom instant bread.

With a stable food source you can start melting rocks in a fire and drawing pictures for words all day while everyone else on earth is chasing animals around with a pointed stick trying not to starve.

Imagine having a year or two of grain stored up, you can have as many kids as you want, and if strangers hassle you you put on your tin pot helmet and wave metal pointy things at them in a big group until they go away

# ¿ Oct 24, 2017 22:00

naem: May 29, 2011

Telsa Cola posted:

True but the same argument could be said for non-egalitarian H/G societies were the elites get tribute or labor done for them.

H/G groups definitely had food storage methods and caches so they totally could have, especially if its something relatively east to store like acorns or smoked meats. I havent done the math for it yet I would bet in a hypothetical situation where you still need to hunt and gather food in the winter you would still have in total more leisure time year round then an agricultural society

We could argue that an organized agrarian society isn't better/worse than a hunter gatherer society, and they definitely existed on a spectrum with farming/hunting/gathering/specialized crafts happening in varying degrees as needed.

I just illustrated how farming in particular was much easier along those areas which is why we sometimes call the Nile and Tigris/ Euphrates rivers the cradle of civilization.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2017 23:08