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Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

people say these new heroes look like LoL heroes but they're actually more like HoN heroes if you think about it

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Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Unfunny Poster posted:

JPJ mad posting about the new patch makes this thread official.

he isn't saying anything bad about the patch but it still looks like complaining lmao

i wonder if this new patch is just going to be a replay of 7.00 of people going "wow look at all this crazy new poo poo" and then "wow this is loving terrible" immediately afterwards. at least there are new heroes. one would hope that this starts a trend of regularly released new heroes to make this game seem less like a dead game, but knowing valve they'll just go back to releasing new loot boxes and shuffling numbers around instead

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Brinner posted:

broodmother is great now. Losing free pathing from taking dmg and getting dusted 24/7 sucked and made it the niche pick she was. now she's viable all the time and a lot of fun. if being invis is a highlight of the hero you're loving garbage with garbage opinions.

apem is fun but I feel like the towers need a tweak. Right now it's real easy to farm a deso/AC in 10 mins and end the game solo. Why would you do that in a fun game mode? Idk but ppl can and will. Test client last night was full of it.

bane needs a nerf, pangolin is fun as gently caress but im curious to see what the pros do with it. Willow great in a 4 role bad in a 5 so far. contesting bounties is really bizarre now. Shrine changes good. HG changes good. Good patch. 5K+ is a poo poo show rn

I'm a pretty big brood autist (5.5k from spamming offlane heroes) and i think losing the invisibility is a pretty hefty loss. you could do all sorts of shenanigans to avoid true sight, like replacing your webs away from sentries or dispelling dust with manta and so on. in the end, a smart brood player could starve supports of their gold just by using the invisibility, which is why they probably removed it completely. another downside to losing the invisibility is that brood can no longer really initiate on heroes since people will see her coming up to them. orchiding a slark out of invisibility was really good. it doesn't seem like the new brood is good for much besides doing some very ratty splitpush

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Pango didn't seem too bad from the brief test I did, he just gravely suffers from the fact that both his ult and W seem useless

Like, if you can actually get a good W off, your positioning is probably poo poo

lohli posted:

Overall do you think her spiders were made tougher or squishier by the health reduction and armour gain?

Apparently they have a little less effective HP, (450 HP to ~370 effective HP) but they heal faster in webs. Probably a nerf though since they're easier to nuke now.

I find it pretty funny that Valve calls Brood's changes a "hero rework". It's kinda like if they took away Pudge's hook and gave basically nothing in return, and called it a hero rework

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Nov 1, 2017

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Brinner posted:

That's why the more durable offlanes are becoming popular again. Centaur has the highest win rate in 7.07b right now with omni/abba not far behind. You can't get away with putting any hero with a PMS and some sort of zoning potential in the offlane and expect it to do well. If they are trilaning your safe lane then you know their offlane *should* be suffering just as much.


It kind of sucks because it limits your offlane options to like 5 heroes in the current patch. Anything that doesn't withstand a tactical nuclear strike is way too greedy for the offlane now. I like a lot of the other changes but offlane/safelane dynamic sucks now. It's really annoying when enemy supports sit their asses down on your lane and still compete with you in levels because of the 2 free bounty runes and so on. And then after they've zoned you for 2 minutes, the enemy carry runs at you with phase boots and extra 2 levels, and then the lane is loving done

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Now that offlane is probably harder than it's ever been, mid and carry have an even more disproportionate impact on the game compared to other roles. I mean yeah, a good support player will be really good at securing the early game, but nowadays every game usually goes to some sort of lategame so the mid and carry end up deciding who wins. With how spread MMR often is in a game, you basically have to play pos 1 or 2 if you're high MMR compared to your team and pos 3-5 if you're not. And with tilted dunning kruegers often competing with you for a core role, it makes for some really annoying pubbing experiences

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

This meta is really boring. Nowadays in pub dota the enemy safe lane is almost incontestable and unwinnable, and likewise your own safe lane is almost impossible to lose as well. It's trivially easy to zone and kill anyone who tries to enter the safelane with a normal rear end trilane. It seems like the only real early game fighting happens in mid now. It's really depressing. Apparently the last meta had too much fighting in the safelane and this is their solution???

At least high ground pushing isn't quite as hard

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

after playing around 70 hours of this game in the past 3 weeks, i can now confidently say that i slightly understand the game once more. also it has completely hosed up my life

i'm ready for the new ranked season

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

i played the game a lot in like 2012 - 2015 and i'm already thousands of hours deep, 70 hours is just what it took me to understand how the game has changed in the past couple of years or so

dota actually doesn't really make me angry anymore. i'm way past that point. nowadays i get mad very rarely, and the game only affects my mood if i go on like a 10-game losing streak or something. the last game that has actually made me upset playing it is like overwatch or something

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Nov 23, 2017

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

in overwatch, the individual player is almost powerless to change the outcome of the match, and it's difficult to figure out why you're actually losing matches since it's a 1st person shooter and you can't pay attention to what your teammates are doing. and blizzard is pushing the game as a competitive game

no wonder the game has such a problem with a perpetually upset community, it's an incredibly frustrating game to play if you're playing to win. i had the most fun when i could basically 1v6 matches as genji but then all the support mains bitched on reddit and they nerfed him

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

battlerite isn't very good actually

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

for me the highlight of my dota career was getting a 12 euro slark set from a random drop and immediately selling it because gently caress slark

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Cuntellectual posted:

I feel weird saying this but I think jungle WK is actually decent right now, his Q is as good for ganking as ever and mortal strike skeletons are absolutely busted early game.

no

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

i love my dead gay game

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Neurolimal posted:

As someone with no interest in ranked mobas at all, anything that makes it harder for a bad to say "whats ur mmr?" In response to any and all suggestions/critiques is a good thing.

What is your mmr though

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

420 is pretty bad, you shouldn't make suggestions or critique

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

turboraton posted:

Oi Risque, Minorkos, how up are you on the rankings? I could use some friendly goon challenge to up my ranking and be there with the -*°Goon Elite 420°*-

I'm at Divine 1 at the moment. I managed to lose like 700 MMR before the calibrations and I've been trying to undo the damage ever since.

Sadly the game just isn't very fun for me in this patch. It seems like offlane is thoroughly hosed now. It's not even "hard" in the sense that it's challenging, it's just a lane you simply sometimes lose against certain heroes, and there's nothing you can do about it. I'm basically unable to play anything but Clockwerk since he's more or less the only hero that can deal with zoning and still have an impact on the lane. I mean I can pick something like Doom or Pangolier and still usually do somewhat okay on my lane, but every now and then, the enemy supports zone me entirely and the game just becomes a loving nightmare where I'm using one hand to try to evade the enemy supports hounding me wherever I go and my other hand to write explanations to my team why I'm still level 1. I'm actually getting a ton of reports for "feeding" or "being useless" just for playing my role to the best of my ability since most people don't understand how loving horrible suicide laning can be now.

I don't know why Valve opted to make offlane like this. It's just objectively speaking less interesting and less challenging to play now. I lost interest in the patch about 2 weeks ago.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:

The good news that as your mmr gets lower most games will either have one or zero supports, so you can go back to picking whatever. When life closes a door God opens a window.

Actually a little untrue, 3k and 4k players can be even more adamant about making offlaning impossible since they don't really understand the importance of rotating. I basically have to play mid whenever I play with my friends, otherwise I'm going to be useless as an offlaner. Not that it even matters since I'm gaining MMR anyway. It just isn't fun since you're forced to play specific, very safe offlaning heroes instead of ballsy aggressive offlaners like in the past. I suppose if you have a good player to duo offlane with, it's not as boring but good luck with that in pubs.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Neon Belly posted:

He’s a victim of how bad off lane is now. Leaving the early game with no cs but no deaths is now the goal of any of those off lane melee heroes now, it seems.

"No cs no deaths" is a terrible, terrible goal for an offlane. You get 25% XP from denies, and you'll most likely also get zoned a bit so you'll be getting even less XP than that. Essentially, if you concede the lane like that and don't even try to contest last hits, you are going to be less farmed than a pos 5 support, and the enemy carry is going to get insanely farmed. The offlane's job isn't to be some inanimate, AFK rock that sits under the tower while slowly working towards level 2. As offlane, you're supposed to contest the lane and force the enemy team to react to you. Sometimes this means you have to die a couple of times in lane, and that's honestly completely okay even if your 3k teammates don't think so. If you can force 2 supports to deal with you while also screwing up the carry's last hits, while also getting farm yourself, the few 200 gold deaths you feed to the carry aren't going to mean much in the grand scheme of things, especially if the carry has to miss out on creep last hits to kill you.

I'm not a professional doto player but my current offlane pubbing strategy is to wait for enemy supports to pick their heroes, then picking a hero that can contest the lane against those heroes. I mean, usually it doesn't matter what they pick since you'll have to pick Clockwerk or Earthshaker seeing as everyone else gets zoned, but that's the high skill nature of offlane coming to play there. Although sometimes you can pick Enchantress against a low magic damage lane or a Broodmother against Luna + 2 weak supports and so on.

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010


Admittedly I have not tried pulling the lane like that in like 3 years but don't the enemy supports use their harmful hexes and curses on you when you try to do that

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

as soon as S2 makes HoN 2, dota 2 is toast

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

it's a good thing valve is making dota 2 worse and worse every patch. this way i get to live my life and do other things. if the game had just stayed in the balance state it was in 2012-2014 i probably would've just spent the rest of my life playing the game but thankfully it isn't

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Agent355 posted:

The current meta is dual lanes because losing the offlane is so damning. If your idiot pubs are running trilanes or junglers still slap them upside the head.

for the longest time, people refused to run dual lanes in the offlane in my 5k bracket, so what would happen every game is that both teams would zone the gently caress out of the enemy offlane, then later flame and report their own offlane for getting zoned. i would always point out that the enemy offlaner was level 4 compared to my level 5 at 10 minutes, but my team still typically thought they had just outskilled the enemy offlane and i was getting outskilled on my lane, and thus i was deserving of many reports and flames

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

anyway this is what you should do if your safelaners aren't rotating to help you on the offlane.

1. rotate to your safelane and form a quadlane. your team will flame and report you, but is necessary and somewhat cathartic so don't worry too much about it

2. your team will now choose one of the following routes
a) your safelaners will stubbornly remain in lane, and you will be quadlaning until around 12 minutes, at which point you will lose all your teamfights and the game will end with your loss. this is good, because it will cause your safelaners to deservedly lose the game
b) one of your safelaners will rotate to offlane, leaving him solo against 3 heroes

3. if the last step was 2.b), you should now rotate back to the offlane.

4. if your support immediately rotates back to the safelane, you should immediately follow him, going back to step 1). if he stays to help you, you should now lane normally and try to win the game.

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Oct 6, 2018

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

ubachung posted:

Probably not as egregious but Troll and Abaddon also seem to have gone from good to stupid OP.

abaddon seemed actually worse than before his rework, but then again i play all heroes as offlane bruisers anyway

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

For some reason I'm playing this game again and there's like a new epidemic of pudge pickers who come into the offlane to afk leech level 2, and then leave the lane forever, leaving the crippled offlane alone against 2 heroes. Like, without fail, this is what every pudge picker in my bracket seems to do. I specifically tell them not to do this, and they still do it. One time I told a pudge player not to leech my XP if they just intended to leave the lane, so he instead went to cut the enemy creeps, dragged a creep wave to a tower and got his level 2, then left to throw hooks at mid. I decided to roam with him, so another dude on our team gave up and another dude abandoned. The pudge did not seem to have any regrets, though

Anyway, I've also lost around 600 mmr again

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Dec 31, 2018

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

ElGroucho posted:

wow very insightful

i didn't think you were actually culpable for said lost lane until you said this lol

ElGroucho posted:

I am

But I didn't lose it for my team all by my lonesome

you shouldn't think like this if you actually want to win. at least 40% of your team will usually be complete gently caress-ups so it's generally bad to think "well i wasn't as bad as THIS dude". of course they're bad, you're supposed to carry them

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Aug 18, 2019

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

EAB posted:

Do you guys have an active discord? Link in the OP was expired. Looking to queue up with people. I queue with a friend but his conduct score is 1800 so we just get the worst most awful toxic games, so I wanted to get some like, regular games going [without him] lol

I believe the dota goon community has largely died off or splintered into smaller, isolated groups. Contrary to what you might think, goons aren't really much nicer than the people you find in solo queue so you aren't missing much. I've personally ruined many games for those who dare invite me to a game

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

The problem with the support role is that valve doesn't really want to make the role fun. I believe the last time the role was fun was back in the summer of 2014 when you could bully all lanes into submission with a position 5 skywrath or something, then quickly push to end the game by 25 minutes. If you did your job well, you would immediately reap the rewards by never even entering the phase where carries become useful and supports become useless. Obviously, if things went wrong, you'd be sent into this hellish nightmare existence of the "lategame" where you can't do anything but watch other people farm for 20 minutes and then get whomped to death by an errant juggernaut crit, but those were the breaks. Either way that was the only time in Dota history that I actually looked forward to playing support.

After TI4, valve decided that something like that must never happen again because it's bad for esports watchers, and carries became the focus of Dota 2. On top of all the changes that made games last longer, comeback gold was introduced, which meant that carries and semi-carries became incredibly strong and supports became basically dogshit. Since you could no longer control and contain the economy with good support play, and carries started to get gold by simply showing up to fights after being blown the gently caress out in lane, supporting felt a little pointless. Valve's response to this was letting supports scale into lategame a little more, alongside other support-friendly mechanics like stacking gold, tomes of experience and so on. Supports essentially became more like weaker cores, no longer stronger early, no longer weaker late, but weaker altogether than actual cores. It also didn't help that carries started to get more interesting and powerful abilities. If valve wants to add a new powerful ability and they don't know how to balance it, they just give it to a hard carry so you can't abuse it too much, like Morphling getting his new ultimate. So essentially you can either play Shadow Demon, whose job is limited to saving people with Q and sometimes slowing people with R, or you can play Terrorblade or Phantom Lancer who can kill the entire enemy team under the right circumstances, or Morphling to do MLG gamer poo poo, or Juggernaut to kill 4 people with a single button and so on.

So in the end, no one wants to play a support because it's just like playing a core except you don't get that sweet dopamine release from killing creeps or heroes, instead your job is just to get bullied by other players on both teams and then buy wards and stack and poo poo, which just isn't very fun. But that's just a theory, a game theory

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

if your support item build includes the word "rush" then something has gone wrong

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Groovelord Neato posted:

the funniest dota thing was being an offlaner not playing the game for a year and coming back after the initial denial (among other) changes that forced the game into 2-1-2 and wondering why i'm 2 levels behind the dual lane i'm against when prior to my sabbatical i'd be bullying them to death.

yeah lol

Cuntellectual posted:

tbf the answer is probably related to pms.

nope it was this

- Reduced lane creep deny experience for the denied team from 70% to 25%.
- Creeps now meet closer to each team's respective safelanes.

this made it essentially impossible to solo lane and encouraged static laning. the early game became less about roaming and rotating and more about just sitting there and disrupting/zoning the enemy heroes. i remember this being the worst time to play offlane in dota 2's history because i would lane against dogshit 2-3k players who would zone me every game and i couldn't do anything about it despite the massive gulf between our skill levels. in the past 10 years of dota history, being a support and just sitting in the trees leeching xp for the entire laning phase was punished like loving crazy, but in 7.07 it was actually the optimal way to play the game. i think valve expected people to immediately start 2-1-2ing to help their offlanes but i don't think they realized how much supports and carries hate offlaners. i think i asked for a duo lane in about 90% of my games and i got it maybe 20% of the time because carries and supports will much rather zone the enemy offlane than help their own. it was kinda funny because i saw these dudes congratulate each other repeatedly for keeping the enemy tide at level 3 at 10 minutes, but then would turn around and ask me how the gently caress their own offlane was still level 4. like it simply didn't register to them that the lane setup was symmetrical. then there was also that period of time when offlaners found a way to cheese their way out of this horrible loving game by pulling the first wave, and immediately carry and support players bitched that the offlane was allowed to play the game again and so valve discouraged that strategy in the most elegant way possible: by removing it

also the denying hero also still got 25% of the creep's experience, which meant that even if you had 4 heroes sitting on the lane and babysitting the carry, the carry would STILL outlevel the solo offlane sitting in xp range as long as the carry denied every creep. eventually valve realized this was a bad thing and went "woops", removing the denier gaining xp thing just 1 year later. they then whoopsed the deny xp back to a more reasonable 40% xp from 25%, which is still kinda bad and discourages solo offlaning but i guess it's not as bad as it used to be.

also clockwerk, my favorite hero, was horribly butchered because he was too good at solo laning in the patch where solo laning was deemed wrongthink. rip

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Sep 23, 2019

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

JollyPubJerk posted:

As an offlaner, I have to farm behavior score because low behavior 'support' retards still roam constantly and not only gently caress their offlane by abandoning them but then go gently caress the mid lane or something too. The lower skill despite their mmr, but higher behavior score players are at least spergy enough to support the offlane and win the lane. It's quite impossible to play offlane with low behavior right now and I find it hilarious. The old meta it was the perfect position to be since offlane heroes were so strong despite everything being against them. Nowadays, one 2k MMR support in a 6k MMR game sticking around in the safelane is often the difference between being able to dominate the lane or not even getting to level 4 in 10 minutes.

But don't ask your support to stay in the offlane, that'll earn you a report and give you more roaming BH retards =)

i've also noticed the trend of supports leaving the offlane to roam, and of course they accomplish nothing 90% of the time. it happens when we're stomping too, it's like "welp i guess we are omega winning this lane but it's time to go say hi to mid for no reason". i usually tell people to stay if i feel like i really need the help but otherwise i let them do it just because i know talking to these people is usually pointless

but if i'm really upset, the thing i like to do is start roaming with them when they leave. i don't really do this with any other players except pudge pickers because i know they're going to stand in the trees exactly long enough to leech level 2 and then leave, and it's gotten so loving annoying that i'm about ready to give up on the game if they do it despite me telling them not to do it. basically i run around the map with them and try to convince my team that i'm just helping him roam.

anyway i don't know about having to farm behavior score though, i'm at 9.7k behavior score right now. the trick is to not flame your team

Wangsbig posted:

ive been playing this game again with classic stack members. my conduct rating is like 1400. all our opponents call me the n word. every game all we talk about is hon and say lines hon heroes say. why'd that guy have to walk too close to the darkness

i'd still really like to play hon again but it's just such a disaster of a game. i wish s2 had made hon 2 instead of loving strife lmfao

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Sep 24, 2019

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Andrigaar posted:

If this is accurate I almost never get commended, reported, or blocked. I just exist yet don't exist.

JollyPubJerk posted:

Either you have to whore for commends or you need to proactively commend teammates if you expect to get much movement. I usually have something for every single game, commends and reports simultaneously lol

i get commended in like half my games. my conduct summary has like 15 commends usually, sometimes more than that. the trick is to be quiet most of the time and focus on killing enemy heroes so that your team look "wow my offlane has a lot of kd". i also tell them to relax and not flame each other

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Ambivalent posted:

almost all my reports are from turbo games, and I don't play turbo very much at all

wonder what it is about turbo that makes people mad at me

i'm guessing you're picking heroes that are cheesy in turbo

or idk maybe people on turbo are just dickheads

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

this patch was fun for a while but i think after almost 8 years of playing this game i'm getting a little bored of it

i think it'd be cool if there was a new dotalike moba arts on the market, or something similar to one in pacing and strategy, but i don't know if we'll ever get one since game devs generally refuse to make games for genres that are """dead"""

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 16, 2019

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

it'd be cool if Valve unveiled a new Dota game at TI10 and then the next 10 TIs would be played in that instead but lol who am I kidding

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

cock hero flux posted:

first, turn off the profanity filter in the settings, then start a normal game
as soon as you get into the pick screen, find the little map and immediately click on the centre lane.
then, scroll through the list of heroes and pick any one that you happen to like the look of. at this point your ears should be filling with the sound of your teammates telling you to do things. things that you don't understand, most likely in a variety of different languages. as it dawns on them that you don't know what it is they're talking about, they will begin to shout, and scream, and hurl expletives and probably slurs at you. lean back in your chair and close your eyes. close your mind to all other sensory input. let the fury of your teammates wash over you. this is dota.

if you find yourself enjoying this music, or even desiring to join this vile chorus, then stay. otherwise, leave, and do not look back, because this is all that there is

It's important to note that if you're starting out, the people you're matched with are so bad that they're matched with complete newbies like yourself. Honestly I would probably mute chat for the first 50 games or so, unless you really enjoy getting bad advice for some reason

Horizon Burning posted:

i love that this diretide shows what valve can do when they pull their finger out and actually give dota 2 some love

shame about all the other years though. guess they're really starting to worry about player counts.

I've heard it theorized that this and Aghanim's Labyrinth are Valve's last attempt to stir up some growth for the playerbase like TF2 with Jungle Inferno, which would mean that the game is going to get the TF2 treatment soon when it doesn't work. I feel like the reason the game has lost its players is mostly because of change fatigue. I came back to play a couple of games last weekend and once again, half the poo poo I liked from previous patches has just been straight-up removed, and all the numbers have been shuffled around so I can't really make intelligent decisions. I'd have to put in another month before I could get into the groove of playing again. It would've helped if they had focused on releasing new heroes instead and left the old stuff untouched, though that's not a perfect solution either. These kinds of games just have a set lifetime and there's not much you can do about that.

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Nov 2, 2020

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Acerbatus posted:

This is absolutely not the case because any time there's a big change patch the player count spikes up until people get bored of it.

I mean, it spikes up momentarily, but that doesn't mean that the playerbase couldn't have generally deflated because of constant reworking and number shuffling. The player count never goes up to the 1 mil concurrent player peak that the game used to have, it goes from 320k to 380k or something. There are no new players coming in and the older players are leaving for various reasons. The game has had ridiculously cutthroat deathball push metas, snail-paced carry farming turtle metas, comeback gold semi-carry metas, safelane brawling metas, offlane suicide pulling metas. Mid has been a ganker role, a farming role and sometimes it's just a secondary offlane that gets ganked into oblivion. Dota has never really decided what it wants to be, and so it has never really settled into having a specific kind of fanbase. As a result, the mid ganker guy quits Dota during a farming meta, offlane brawler quits during the suicide pulling meta, and supports quit whenever their role gets reworked into either more or less of a ward bitch thing. These people are unlikely to come back, and if they do, they are met with a completely different game than when they left. Say what you will about League's fairly rigid meta, they have been able cultivate a very specific audience for it.

Though in my opinion, even if Valve had done its patches perfectly and added way more actual content instead of fumbling around with existing content, I doubt Dota would be much more popular than it is. The game just isn't fresh anymore. No one gives a gently caress about trying Dota 2 in 2020 because it's an older game with a weird grognardy playerbase. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think the new player experience in Dota 2 can be that bad because it managed to get popular once already. Though admittedly, the new player experience has gotten somewhat worse over the years because of smurfs, boosters, matchmaking issues and the fact that no one really talks about the game anymore, so there's not much discussion to learn from. Valve's best option might be to make Dota 3 with an all-new hero cast and map to pull in new players, but they can't do that because people have thousands of dollars of cosmetics stuck in Dota 2. Also making a new game would require effort on their part. It's likely Dota 2 will slowly fade away into more of a whale-monetized game for weirdos. Expect more arcanas with even more ridiculous price tags as they slowly milk away what's left of the playerbase.

Acerbatus posted:

The real problem is valve doesn't fuckin care.

They leave tier 2 teams and lower to rot so only ~32 people can actually earn a living from playing dota, which kills off a huge amount of interest from aspiring pros, semi-pro streamers, and people who would watch them play. Tournaments throughout the rest of the year tend to not matter much so nobody watches half of them.

They straight up let fraud run rampant for years with highly publicized tournaments not paying a cent to winners. Why the gently caress would anyone want to invest money in that kind of game? Why would anyone want to play it? If a game is going to be big these days it needs to be either replayable single player or an esport; Stuff like Among Us is an incredibly rare exception.

I think the esports stuff is way less important than people make it out to be. Typically, a game has to be big before it becomes a genuine esport, though some devs like to skip that part and make stuff like Valorant, which is notably not very popular at all. It seems like casual non-esportsy games are just as likely to get big, like Fortnite and Fall Guys. I think the current theme in what games get big has more to do with streaming/youtuber culture, and finding new ways to tickle certain parts of the human psyche (like Battle Royales where you get to beat 99 other people sometimes, largely due to luck, but it feels like it was all you)

Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Groovelord Neato posted:

I definitely quit when denial xp killed the offlane and icefrog seemed to want to force 2-1-2.

That's more or less when I stopped playing the game seriously as well. I had no faith in Valve after the slew of contrived changes they did to try to force that meta. They saw offlaners being forced to sneak into the enemy jungle at the start of the game and do a benny hill run out with a creepwave and two enemy supports in tow, and their solution was to simply make it impossible to pull the first wave. No greater balance changes, no rework of the hosed up meta they had created, just a "no don't do that" and that was that.

It was actually a pretty crazy patch because every game my supports would congratulate each other for fully zoning out the enemy offlane, and then they would turn over to me and flame me for getting fully zoned out by the enemy supports. Somehow, even though offlane had become essentially a position 7 support role, players still expected their team's offlaner to be right behind the mid in terms of XP, itemization and most importantly KD. A lot of my teammates would point out "hey, you have 7 deaths to your 1 kill, that's a report bro" and it didn't matter that the enemy offlaner actually had 9 deaths to his 0 kills. Even when I was winning most of my games, my summary card had like 15 reports to my 20 commends.

Minorkos fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Nov 12, 2020

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Minorkos
Feb 20, 2010

Groovelord Neato posted:

The funniest part is I had taken a lengthy break and hadn't seen the denial changes and did solo offlane as I always did with my goon pals and was incredibly confused when I ended up 3 levels behind the safe lane I was against.

I had a similar experience since some of my friends tried to get back into Dota 2 when that patch came out. Since I too play solo offlane, I was quite useless in every match we played. This was a bit of a problem as I had twice the MMR of my friends, yet no impact whatsoever. My friends were getting destroyed by people with more MMR than them while I was getting rolled by two supports with much less MMR than me, who lazily parked themselves between me and the creepwave, denying me my ability to play the game. This made me very upset, because the game used to heavily punish supports for doing this, yet those mechanics seemed to have no effect, as they had been deleted. The ensuing confusion and rage I seethed into voice comms, coupled with the fact that we lost every game, likely contributed to all my friends promptly quitting the game again.

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