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"Not the blood, sir. But all of a man’s Mountain Dew, ultimately, belongs to his people - to his tribe. It’s a necessity when you live near the Great Chip. All Dew’s precious there, and the gamer body is composed of some seventy percent Mountain Dew by weight. A normie man, surely, no longer requires that Dew."
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Dec 18, 2023 21:58
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maybeadracula posted:It's DUNC actually It's genius, because for the sequels they can gradually expand it to DUNCan Idaho.
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Dec 27, 2023 18:17
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The death of Paul's kid in the first book always did feel weirdly muted. I genuinely have to wonder how the movie will handle it.
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Jan 11, 2024 20:22
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Cessna posted:Was this before or after the guy with lightsabers attached to his knees? Well before. Sweatman actually got an official action figure! For a while they were painting that particular story as the TRUE EU EXTENSION. It got a video game and toys and everything.
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Jan 16, 2024 20:18
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Duncan was described in one of the later books as a "lady's man" but yeah he always came across as the more serious soldier while Gurney was the heart and soul.
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Jan 18, 2024 20:17
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feedmegin posted:The Atreides, the Fremen don't use shields in the first place (pisses off worms, iirc) Beast Rabban did want to use them on the Freman but the Baron was basically like "Haha, no, gently caress you." I do think one of the funnier jokes in Dune is that Rabban is right about almost everything he says and the Baron is just like "Oh, you stupid moron, you complete idiot, you don't know what you're talking about."
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Jan 21, 2024 01:08
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That's just the Great Serpent of Ronka 
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Jan 22, 2024 19:37
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The dreaded triple anus.
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Jan 25, 2024 17:19
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Somehow, Duncan Idaho has returned.
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Feb 1, 2024 22:51
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Panfilo posted:New thread title Someone failed the Gom Jabbar
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Feb 7, 2024 13:45
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Or how the key to breaking the "unbreakable" Suk school conditioning turns out to be "use the guy's wife as leverage against him", a tactic never before dreamed of. It wasn't just that. His wife was a BG who had her hooks deep into him and was (last he knew) being tortured eternally. If she hadn't been BG or the Harkonnens hadn't been so good at torture it wouldn't have worked.
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Feb 29, 2024 00:18
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I should reread Shogun. I loved it as a kid but I was always worried it would age badly.
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Feb 29, 2024 16:06
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Wait, it's Thufir Hawat who is cut? What the gently caress??
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Mar 1, 2024 22:20
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Phanatic posted:
Yeah, I dislike the idea that it needs to 'handle' the white savior role because the entire point of Dune is that Paul and Jessica were intentionally playing into messiah tropes that were planted there by the BG, and Paul struggles with the possibility of wholeheartedly embracing the role and rejecting it outright and the fear he has that adopting it will burn the galaxy and ruin the people close to him. Like one of the most chilling scenes in the book is where Paul does something and he realized Stilgar has changed from his close friend to a worshipper and that his path leads there. I like Chani having more agency in theory but it sort of weakens the idea that Paul taking the role of the Messiah will make him both more and less than a man. (And the fear and conflict of that which eventually leads to him not walking Leto's path.) Instead it just paints everyone else as weak-minded and helpless rather than Paul adopting the cloak of something bigger than he is and himself being unable to stop it, as even his death could lead to jihad.
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Mar 2, 2024 04:23
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:frank's politics were liberal new left dreck AT BEST, at worst far more conservative and lacking a real grasp of the movements that surrounded him in day to day life. you can love the story he wrote and it's narrative details without being subservient to his underdeveloped position on mass politics, etc, and it's about time someone was able to adapt the best parts of his story into something that is interesting vis a vis contemporary life post cold war It will be nice if someone actually pulls that off, yes. Until then all we have is something that ends roughly as weirdly as Lynch's version while not actually saying anything new or interesting in favor of punting all of that to a possible Dune 3. I don't think there's anything wrong with changes and if Dune 3 pulls it off I might change my mind, but Dune 2 feels messy in a bad way. (TBH I think I liked Lynch's more in the long run, though Dune 2 is visually incredible of course.) Honestly taking Dune 1 and 2 together, it feels like it runs into that problem where it wants to both be loyal and to deviate and it doesn't really commit well enough to either. There is stuff in Dune 1 which probably should have been cut and stuff in Dune 2 which feels underdeveloped, and I think if it had been willing to be less loyal to the book than it ended up being it could end up better. I'm sure people would have been pissed at more Dune changes but honestly I'd much rather see something that is entirely its own story (Even if it uses the framing of Dune) vs the weird half-baked version we get now. Again, assuming WB doesn't derail it, I am sure Dune 3 will probably help a bit, but I'm not happy gambling of WB not loving up. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 23:59
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bob dobbs is dead posted:there is no colorable way in which this is worse than lynch dune For the most part i like the cast in Lynch's Dune more and I think the areas where it deviates in weird ways tended to be more interesting than the way Dune 2 deviated in weird ways. Obviously Dune 2 is bigger budget and has fantastic cinematography but I feel like 95% of what I really took from it was Ghedi Prime which is easily the highlight of the film (and honestly of any Dune adaptation.) It's not terrible or anything but maybe I was expecting too much, and I really do feel sour about how much it feels like it is punting things to the next movie.
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Mar 3, 2024 00:06
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A rewatch might improved things. I'm still feeling pretty sour about it myself but might see how I feel when I see it again. It's a pretty stark contrast where I left Dune 1 feeling pretty good, whereas Dune 2 I've honestly felt more negative about the more I've talked about/thought about it.On the other hand theaters are expensive enough I might just wait for streaming.
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Mar 4, 2024 01:21
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Halloween Jack posted:It's funny that Shai Hulud is literally God but you can also ride Him around and drown His babies to make the really good sex drugs. I mean the OC Bible probably says the same thing.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:58
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priznat posted:You’d think not being portrayed as a group of maniac genociders would be a positive smdh 
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Mar 4, 2024 21:41
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Arc Hammer posted:I felt the Harkonnens were actually done pretty well. Rabban was always a dumbass in the book so that carried over. The rank and file Harkonnens aren't braindead, they make salient points to their superiors (before getting their heads smashed or throats slit) and they are much, much better prepared to fight the Fremen than the Atreides or the Sardaukar. They've got environment suits, anti gravity jets to avoid worms and much better defended spice harvesters. Rabban wasn't a dumbass in the book though. Rabban was the only one who actually seemed to grasp the danger of the Freman while his Uncle and the people around him went "lol, those desert dwellers? you suck Rabaan." Like a major point of the character is that he was cruel and awful but he also had a genuine grasp over the overwhelming threat of the Freman that nobody not on the Atredes side had, and was able to ask a question which made the Baron go "Wait, that's a lot smarter than I give him credit for, have I underestimated him?" In comparison Feyd was kind of a dumbass. He was tricked by Hawat, his plans were unsubtle, he was arrogant, he basically was a fuckin' mess of a dude who was primed to be easily controlled and manipulated by the BG and others. Pretty much the only thing he had going for him was he was a good fighter (but not a great one, he would have met his end in the fighting ring if not for things cheated in his favor) and that he was attractive.
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Mar 4, 2024 23:50
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khwarezm posted:https://twitter.com/moschinodorito/status/1765198725658358252 The weird part of this tweet is that of all the things you can accuse Star Wars of stealing from Dune, it's swords (for poo poo obviously inspired by Samurai, like Darth Vader is just a big rear end space samurai) and Darth Maul who... has literally nothing in common with Feyd? At least point out the Scarlac
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Mar 6, 2024 22:34
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khwarezm posted:I do think people have consistently turned a blind to how much Dune has had such a huge influence on Sci-Fi and Star Wars in particular, but yeah most of this is a reach. Oh yeah, I mean Tatooine exists because Lucas liked Dune and you can trace a lot of that right back to him, arguably even stuff like Jabba basically being Knockoff Baron Harkonnen/'Spice' being the drug/etc. Just that's the oddest selection of stuff.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:42
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khwarezm posted:The Jedi are also like a much simpler and easy to digest Bene Gesserit in various ways. Very possibly, though they fill enough classic niches that I can also just imagine him going SPACE WIZARDS. Though honestly by Episode 1 they feel more Bene Gesserit with Midiclorians and weird breeding rules and poo poo.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:48
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Lensmen is absolutely one of those Insanely Influential But Basically Forgotten series, yeah." edit: It's also one I could not give a shiiiiiiit about when I tried to read.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:06
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Scarabrae posted:Thinking about it more making the final fight with Feyd an honorable showing of equal skill kinda annoys me, did they think a knife up through the skull wouldn’t get a PG13 rating anymore? That's kind of an important part of Feyd. He's not actually that skilled. He's not a complete dumbass but the first time we see him fight in the book he smugly goes "lol, gonna fight an un-drugged guy to prove how cool and awesome I am" and then ends up having to resort to a secret code work to paralyze the soldier so he didn't loving die. In his duel against Paul, Paul realizes that Feyd also has a trigger put there by the BG and considers using it, but ultimately wins on his own skill. Like that's the entire point. Feyd has some skill but it's overstated because he fights almost universally in situations where he's able to manipulate things so he's not at any significant risk. In the duel against Paul he's only a risk at all because of a poisoned dagger and poisoned needle, neither of which helps him and so he gets a knife to the brain.
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Mar 7, 2024 17:10
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kiimo posted:My mom finally learned how to pronounce my cat's name from the 90s "Muad Dib" even though he's been gone for decades now How strange to name a cat after a mouse.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:36
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Galewolf posted:Guys, I had two beers and kinda have a question Spice is immensely and unbelievably powerful, powerful enough to the point where nobody could imagine it being threatened. The idea that someone like Paul might come in and threaten to end Spice as a thing never occurred to anyone, so Dune instead had more value as being something that could be given as a gift or taken as a punishment and where you could drive whoever owned it to the brink by demanding and heavier spice taxes. Prior to Paul it just made more sense to give Dune to a Great House because even the *worst* possible outcome was "they gently caress up Spice need to be replaced" and not "We end human space travel and send everyone addicted to Spice into a special kind of hell"
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Mar 7, 2024 22:34
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Burns posted:The better question is why was House Harkonnen allowed to have their own homeworld and also Arrakis while the Atredies were forced to leave their homeworld Caliban(Karridan??). House Harkonnen just ran Arrakis basically, while Leto was being given Arrakis. That is why they went knowingly into the trap because it was basically the Emperor jangling the keys to the car and going "All yours!"
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Mar 7, 2024 22:56
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Leto can really drat close to it too, arguably a matter of months, maybe weeks, from turning the Freman from potential enemies into loyal allies. It took like three different "this has never happened before/this is totally unexpected" things to pull it off and it still ended (in the short term) with a massive disaster for the invaders and in the long run with Paul on the throne anyway.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:06
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skasion posted:Also to defy the emperor’s command and stay on Caladan would have led to the same result, Sardaukar invasion. Only this way without the possibility of a Fremen army to come to the rescue. They did have the choice of taking the House Atomics and going into exile, but Leto gambled on Desert Power.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:15
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YoursTruly posted:We thank you, Jessica, for the gift of your body’s moisture. We accept it in the spirit with which it is given. It was a sign of respect. Spending water for no purpose as a sign of honor. There's a whole thing where everyone else assumes he was insulting the Duke but Leto realized that, no, it was an honorable gift.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:25
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Also yes, some of Gurney's fellows died, that gets brought up in the book and it even gives Gurney pause about the 'new' Paul because he seemed to not care about the lives he took.
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Mar 9, 2024 05:19
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Galewolf posted:Yeah, I know Nah, that owned. Crazy old hermit is the idea outcome for Star Wars characters. (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke.) It sucks when they try to do other things.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:49
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I feel like once you reach a certain point in sufficiently advanced science it feels basically like magic. I think Arthur C. Clark had a quote about that... Oh, right! "Reading computer manuals without the hardware is as frustrating as reading sex manuals without the software." What a wise man.
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Mar 13, 2024 17:59
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Frank Herbert was both absolutely a serious Republican and these days would probably be considered a center-left Democrat because he acknowledges things like "climate change is an actual thing that can happen" and "The horrible fat pedophile is probably not a great choice for a leader."
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Mar 13, 2024 21:38
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Owlbear Camus posted:I haven't read the books in decades, but a dumb meme had me wondering: Is there a reason Paul doesn't simply use The Voice in his duel with Feyd? That is literally one of the differences between Paul and Feyd. In a duel earlier in the book, Feyd is losing, but his opponent had been programmed with a codeword that would defeat him, and Feyd, being a coward, slammed that button like it was going out of style and then pretended he won legit Paul, in the same situation, chose not to. While you can view it as a "oh yeah Paul was a better guy", it was more that it was one of Paul's small attempts to resist becoming a true beast which is an ongoing thing throughout the book, with a major part of Paul's journey being some attempt to hold onto some element of his humanity in the face of the Jihad. By the time Paul had reached that point, the Jihad was inevitable and any action he took would just change the nature of it, and Paul loathed that. (When he first rides the Sandworm he realizes that even if he just hosed up and died there, they'd still just work it into the Messiah prophecy.) It's also implied to be what spared his life in that moment. Count Fenring was watching the entire fight and Paul had many visions of his own dead body, but never a vision of his killer, and he suspected Count Fenring, the failed K-H, would be that man. Paul's refusal to embrace the Harkonnen tactic at the very end was seemingly the point where Fenring decided to disobey Shaddam and spare Paul.
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Mar 15, 2024 16:16
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It's also worth noting that Paul's constant struggle between his humanity and the needs and pressures of his prescience is a major part of his character and not necessarily in a good way. Paul's actions guided him towards the Golden Path but he did not want to take that path, nor was he willing to make the sacrifices necessary to fully take that path. The end result was that he started down it in a way that lead to countless horrors and atrocities, but could not make himself fully embrace the sheer horror of what he was doing 'for the greater good' nor was he able to endure the horror of what he would need to do to himself to continue down that path. That got shunted off to Leto II. So Paul retained his humanity but in a way that could be well viewed as a failure since he neither prevented Jihad nor was willing to accept the consequences of becoming the ultimate monster and tyrant in order to preserve humanity. It's probably the most interesting thing about Paul. When put to the final Gom Jabbar test, he chose to gnaw his leg off and escape, rather than endure pain so as to remove a threat to the species. By the B-G argument of the concept that means he wasn't a human, but it fundamentally depends on his humanity as a modern audience would view it to reach that point.
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Mar 15, 2024 16:33
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Halloween Jack posted:I think it's also worth bearing in mind that the Kwisatz Haderach and the Golden Path are concepts invented by people, not some objectively existing thing just waiting to be discovered. They're more like, for example, Rosicrucian concepts of a monarch who would reunite Christendom and institute God's kingdom on earth. Yeah, there's no solid answer to any of it. Except for the last one, Fenring's hum-language was the fuckin' worst.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:01
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Yeah, it's basically just a way for a BG to manipulate religion for their own protection, because they can just slot in and fill the prophecies. And even then it's partially luck, like how Jessica manages to stumble upon the term "Maker" when she was originally planning to say "Maker of Death"
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Mar 18, 2024 18:37
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Mister Speaker posted:Another question for more well-read dunebros: To what extent is Jessica's Harkonnen heritage known? It's a pretty big revelation to Paul in the new film, but in pt 1 the Baron calls (a very paralyzed) Leto "cousin" and it got me thinking about who actually knew Jessica was Harkonnen. And the implications of this, how many threads of bloodline manipulation were the BG pulling there? Weren't they trying to have Jessica's (female) heir marry Feyd? Hapsburg vibes. It was a secret to everyone but the BG breeding masters. Not even Jessica knew. Paul discovered it via his power and demanded Jessica realize it. Nobody else knew it except Alia, though by the end the Reverend Mother realizes the secret is out.
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Mar 20, 2024 02:15
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