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Zark the Damned posted:Skeevy as the butt handles may be, it's still a far better 2-pilot interface than in Pacific Rim. I can kind of see your point if you mean that having a G-Gundam style control interface is impractical, and then you make two people have to mimic the same motions (unless there are three pilots) in order for the machine to function. Now Granted, I like this interface but I'm interested where you are coming from. Honestly the cockpit layout of the FranXX is just too on the nose by itself. I'm still really waiting for the in-universe explanation for why they need butt handles because even the single pilot mechs have simulated butts. I can't remember the name, but I remember years ago there was another mech show I watched that had the whole "male pilot/female control unit" thing and both of them were contained in different parts of the torso of the mech. It made sense but then that series was also pretty blatant about the mech fights being a none-to-subtle metaphor for sex. Can anyone do this without bashing the viewer over the head? Rodenthar Drothman posted:I'm in as long as it's interesting and not just "no it has to be this one person to grab my butt handles."
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Jan 23, 2018 19:18
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Dessel posted:
Like an inflatable cushion in the palms for catching falling civilians and in the same episode Breast located rocket launchers. I believe the latter belonged to the french robot for what it's worth. Brought To You By fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 05:26
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Futaba Anzu posted:does anyone know who composed the op btw it's a real banger I get a very vague early 00s feel from the OP in both visuals and music. Something in the realm of Eureka7 but it's not as uplifting and the visual focus isn't on the mechs like the surfing scenes were used for. It's not a bad OP but it feels like they went for an older feel with FranXX. Can't quite put my finger on what else makes me think that. All in all the episode took off once we got into the plug suits. The worldbuilding feels off though, there's this whole Evangelion-style geofront city but there isn't a sign that anyone lives there. The story feels empty of the humans these kids are supposed to be protecting. Everything else was fine, I just feel like the story is too predictable at the moment. No real surprises, everyone is doing the things I figured would happen after a few minutes of watching the episode.
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Jan 28, 2018 04:15
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well Hiro has never been there so that makes sense. The thing is, showing the population does something for us the viewer not just the character. And even though we're standing on the balcony overlooking this massive complex there's no movement either. No cars driving around, no lights turning on or off. The city might as well be a christmas tree. If this city is supposed to be one of the few habitable locations for humanity, why does it feel so empty? There aren't any guards in the corridors leading into the off-limits areas. They comment in the first episode that the long escalator doesn't get used often. And at best they have a small security detail to keep an eye on the kids in the upper dome. It just feels empty, before we at least had the stadium of people at the coronation ceremony but i'm not unconvinced that the majority of those figures weren't holograms.
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Jan 28, 2018 06:13
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NotALizardman posted:
Funny enough I had pegged Genista for being the mech that would be the first to have issues activating. Turns out that that couple just werks.
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Jan 28, 2018 17:20
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Rodenthar Drothman posted:Oh god something I just realized upon the last quoting of this: the dude % bars penetrate the girl % bars. I thought it was intertwined like a chromosomal pair. Since it's hard to argue which percent bar "penetrates" the other as the female bar would be occupying the same position the male is in the cockpit were these two people and they would be the ones penetrating.
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Jan 28, 2018 19:28
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ViggyNash posted:I think it's also important to note that Mitsuru seems to feel the same way. He wanted to pilot with 02 to prove that he wasn't the problem on his team. If he can pilot with someone else, then surely his partner must be the problem. It may be that Hiro blaming himself while Mitsuru blames others was the whole point of this exercise.
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Jan 29, 2018 05:53
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dogsicle posted:i don't feel like the piloting roles themselves are that gendered, so gay pairings wouldn't inherently rub up against that. They are really. There is a very present theme of marriage between men and women. The first episode has Father Pope pairing these kids off while their pinkies are bound by rings, I would argue that traditional weddings are the focus here. Dr. FranXX specifically states that the true power of a mech comes out when the positive and negative male-female energies mix the true power comes out. And the female outfits are designed to resemble a wataboshi, which is the bridal hood used in Shinto Weddings.
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Jan 30, 2018 04:02
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dogsicle posted:i mostly meant that the male/female characters don't fall into such rigidly gendered boxes that having m/m or f/f pairs would be odd or forced to feed into the typical roles of subservient femme/dominant masc. For this show, depends. Just looking at the position of the riders in the cockpit, whoever grabs the reins is symbolically penetrating their partner. So whoever is the "battery" is going to be subservient to the dominant driver. Personalities won't change this as much as you might want but we still need to see what it looks like in the cockpit whenever 002 assumes direct control.
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Jan 30, 2018 04:20
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Zark the Damned posted:Just had another look at this bit and I noticed that in this scene all the kids are wearing shawls with big red Xs on them, covering the normal X/Y on the uniform for the girls/boys. Thus making the boys XY and girls XX, but also making the pairing XX. The mechs are all explicitly female in design so that makes sense. Didn't notice the chromosomal pairing like that though.
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Jan 30, 2018 15:50
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Kanos posted:He didn't really pilot with her in episode 1; that was the core of his insecurity about himself and Mitsuru being a dickhead to him. He was present in the cockpit while she did the thing but the only one 100% saying that he "piloted" was 02 herself. This matters because the people who make decisions didn't agree with her assertion that he was capable of piloting with her and they have all of the data to make decisions with. They went "oh, that's potentially interesting", but it wasn't until this episode where they went "yeah this changes everything, he can actually pilot with her for real". Hiro's problem was that he didn't remember piloting her and we have no reason to believe that he wasn't actually an active part of the operation because the FranXX needs both pilots to be at the very least Synched in and the reaction was not the "devouring of the Stamen" that characterized her previous on-screen activation. Attaining the ideal form of a FranXX means that both people are operating together. Basically though, his first time was so mind blowing he wound up not being able to comprehend the mind meld and subsequent battle. I would have to re-watch the 2nd and 3rd episode but the problem is that Papa and his organization had reasons not to allow 002 to further contaminate the kids of this Plant. Whatever anomaly they observed, they don't feel like it is worth exploring at this plant and with this episode we realize it's because she's more important to the war effort than this little detour can afford. So it's faster to just ship her with another disposable partner than to linger here; and again. They have some reasons not to want her to stay at this plant for reasons I hope will be explained later. However, this episode also shows that the higher ups won't be able to ignore Hiro's compatibility with 002. Edit: Does anyone else get a bit confused that while in the cockpits, the male pilots have a digital image of the robot's face appear next to them for when their co-pilot is talking. Even though their co-pilot is literally right in front of them in the same area? Did Dr. FranXX put a camera in the shoulder just for this function? Brought To You By fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 06:40
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Kanos posted:I was under the assumption that when the robot is properly activated, the female pilot is basically subsumed into and effectively becomes the robot until the connection is broken(either willingly or unwillingly, like when Miku got messed up in ep 3). I think that too, it's just that why not use a static picture of the actual girl's face? or a [Sound Only] text box? And how do they get that camera shot of the mech's face to provide for the pilot in the first place? I know it's to make use of the fact that for some reason these mech's have human faces digitally projected onto them but it's just some odd detail. I'd love to be some technician building these things and questioning the schematics and design documents.
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Feb 5, 2018 07:54
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AnacondaHL posted:The central theme of the show has been "status quo not working, need to do something drastic such as having a near useless not-official stamen to ride with the wild pistil" with partner mixups and different other concepts to follow. The thing here though is that the status quo that wasn't working was solely related to 02 and her desire to Pilot with Hiro. And even in this episode there's an interesting line in the pre-opening sequence about these parasites already being corrupted and 002s continued presence to be a further detriment to that. They're definitely reasons to question the direction of the show, and there are definitely open questions regarding how the individual characters fit together in a group and where they can develop. And I'm more than willing to believe that with all the symbolism we have here about children and sex, that there is a very good reason why only males and females are stated to be able to activate a FranXX. It is still playing off the concept of Yin and Yang and different sexual energies that men and women have. Someone in this thread pointed out to me that while the men wear a Y, chromosome on their shirt, and the Women wear X's. Their ceremony gown provided the other chromosome related to them, and the FranXX being female in design would be the product of a male and female union. But for the people betting on there being a same-sex pairing inside of the Mech, in face of all the marriage symbolism and heterosexual theming and imagery, I just don't see it myself. I think there is more room for speculating on how the pilots will interact outside the robots. Abe didn't commisiom this series not to get people making kids is all I'm saying. 
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Feb 5, 2018 21:43
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AnacondaHL posted:The heterosexual reading is one level too deep at this point imho. The flower metaphor is more straightforward. Not every flower has a pistil and stamen inside of it. quote:Not to mention, since the dudes become X's anyways, why not try two female X's if they have a stronger relationship, if everyone is hosed anyways? And the reason why I don't think two female Pilots would work is because again, the creator of these robots specifically stipulate that is male and female energy is needed to power these units. Just like it is the union of a man and a woman that makes a child (franXX) All the other imagery is in service of reinforcing the notion of a heterosexual coupling. Again, I'm not seeing any real reason to believe that inside the robots we're going to see non-heterosexual pairings. We're going to need to add a new rule before I start to give that line of thought any credibility.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:03
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People gotta stop holding their enjoyment and engagement of a show hostage if that show doesn't do things they want. I want this show to do what other mecha shows have done and use both child and adult characters to examine their themes. So far this show is only about a bunch of sheltered children being turned into soldiers by the state in incredibly ham-fisted sex powered robots while not understanding the mechanics of sex and relationships themselves. Maybe I get lucky and we introduce a group of older pilots down the line but I doubt it. Maybe this will turn into a 26 episode analogy of the pressures a society that is facing a birth decline puts on it's members to not only perform sexually, but do so for the benefit of the state whether they like their partner or not. Maybe we get a gay relationship and maybe we don't. But if people are willing to swallow the presentation and premise of the show so far, I don't know why not having a clear and obvious gay pairing up to this point makes the show any better or worse.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:00
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dogsicle posted:my issue is more that it's incredibly insulting to act like the inclusion of gay characters would be pandering I'm reading that thread myself now and the argument I see (that I also agree with) is that saying a show is WORSE for not including homosexual relationships is a poor stance for a reviewer or viewer to take. And using a word that is loaded in such a way that it implies the story is saying Homosexuality doesn't exist or isn't desirable, when we're only 4 episodes in, is jumping the gun and disingenuous. We're too few episodes into a 26 episode show to start making value judgements about a show that hasn't really moved beyond three characters in the story. People saying that because the story has themes of sex and sexuality automatically means it needs to include homosexual plotlines otherwise the story is lacking aren't being fair to the potential intentions of the writers, and just how much you can write while only using heterosexual couples as a basis. When Ikuno was given that pep talk by Ichigo, the same day/day after her partner was raving over the intercom about how much better it felt to pilot alongside 002, and how he wouldn't mind having a change of partners. People assumed that was Yuri and not what Ichigo said which is "we're in this together so we need to work together despite that stuff, mistakes could mean death". This contrasts with the previous activation where Ikuno couldn't get enough output to start the mech, the next time they do it both parties get well into the 70% region because they had their respective reality checks. Instead of talking about how partners need to forgive and work with each other, we had two pages here of people reading into the story what really wasn't present in the writing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to see the story explore it's ideas with the widest possible toolset, but at some point people have to look at the show first before they read everything else into it. If the show isn't good on that merit adding anything else will arguably not improve anything.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:47
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Eej posted:It's one thing to accept awkwardly blatant references to intercourse and it's another to accept, if the show runs with it, the idea that human beings exist to be bonded with someone of the opposite gender (society approved or not). That's fair.
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Feb 7, 2018 20:51
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DisDisDis posted:I found the format too obnoxious to actually read that review but maybe someone who has can weigh in on if it actually does this without justification cuz lmao It's mostly just talking about mech shows that have a sexual focus on some level like Aquarion Evol, Stardriver, Captain Earth; and comparing it to FranXX's presentation. Then the writers (rightfully) pointing out the absurdity of the cockpit designs and some other aspects of the shows visual presentation, and then the last stuff is about representation and the expectation of the writers. Also some concern over 002 representing a "taming" type female character given she has the most energy of the entire cast and is obviously assertive in the relationship's she has with other mech pilots. Honestly if the piece didn't include the word heteronormative the related forum discussion wouldn't have been as populated it seems. The article is nothing really offensive, just two people talking about tits, sex, and desired representation in mech shows. Why the format is like two people texting is beyond me though. It's easy to read but not really preferable to just a regular text document. Shinjobi posted:I am watching this show for the giant robots and all you motherfuckers with your goddamn sex questions are ruining it for me!!!!!
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Feb 7, 2018 23:55
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You gotta admit though, Thunderbolt fantasy was great and easily my favorite show of 2016.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:14
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Crabtree posted:I thought they were just anthropomorphized buck wild crazy sex in general and that's why society hates them. Eh, still works. Balls to the wall, world ending gay sex the likes that Satan would blush to. I'm pretty sure the magma dinosaurs are just Balrogs and human it just dug too deep and too greedily.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:30
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Crabtree posted:But its a show about sex puns and metaphors too? Like I dunno, the one creature that can survive this hellscape outside of their dumb enclosures that the society needs to kill with matrimony and papa approved pairings. That is part of 002s make up who is a dangerous, sexually aggressive girl. But then again maybe I'm high and channeling Eureka Seven for some reason. Not everything has to be a metaphor or symbol as pointed out regarding Evangelion. Sometimes a giant bio-mechanical magma monster is a giant bio-mechanical magma monster. The surface level of the story just puts 002 as some "cursed" child.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:42
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This was a good episode, they really leaned into contrasts and shading and there's a lot to parse from this one compared to previous ones now that we've introduced another plantation. And I feel relieved that only one group of anime protaganist characters got the fancy mechs and everyone else presumably pilots Zaku's or something. I'm looking forward to the designs of the standard FranXX. ViggyNash posted:I think I need to watch this episode like 3 more times with a pen and paper to parse all of the subtle things that happened in this episode because you guys keep reminding me of stuff that I noticed and forgot or just didn't even consider. Same, this is the rare show I follow that warrants a re-watch.
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Feb 14, 2018 01:41
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AnacondaHL posted:I'd argue the infection wasn't symbolizing a roadblock in character growth, given how 02 was show reacting to it with care/passion, as if it was the honey she loves eating. If it were, 02 would have reacted by going "hey, this poo poo shows you aren't being true to your feelings. Do you wanna gently caress or not, darling?", paraphrased. This has been my read on it as well. I think there are some unanswered questions about the nature of this growth, and how it's tied to the unique reaction Hiro has been having with riding with 002 as opposed to the other pilots. But having the growth disappear when Hiro decides to retain the will to live in the face of his clinging to the idealized dream of FranXX pilots does blur the meaning considerably. It feels too early to have Hiro disfigured or physically altered in a way that makes other characters react like Goro did the previous episode, but that growth was in line with the "three ride" rule for 002 and I'm interested to see how it will come into play later on.
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Feb 21, 2018 22:02
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A literal beach episode feels like something out of left field given we are in an apocalyptic wasteland with no indication that standing bodies of water existed prior to this point.
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Feb 22, 2018 15:17
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Given the ruins, I figured that this is all happening outside of the Dome. If this was at that lake or maybe if the other Plantation does have a more Beach like enclosure that would be a different story.
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Feb 22, 2018 15:48
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Willias posted:Those aren’t ruins. Right at the end we see some fairly dilapidated looking buildings and a collapsed telephone pole. They're definitely outside.
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Feb 22, 2018 16:04
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Every episode I find new ways to ponder how these mechs were designed both from the standpoint of the show creators, and the in-universe perspective of Dr. Franxx. Today I wondered how the cockpits are sealed or rather, why they aren't sealed against the environment. The goop being able to seep into the cockpit area implies that there isn't a watertight seal once they close the face. That's a problem when you think about the threats Klaxorsaur can produce that this episode now introduces. I get that this was all an attempt to facilitate the episode's core drama, and it was a fun episode so pardon my overthinking things. . But the idea that a fairly viscous fluid seep into the cockpit tells me that both liquid and air based attacks would be effective against these robots. That aside; I'd caught up on the past episode and the tone shift took a moment to get used too but the lightheartedness of these episodes is nice. Plus there is still some crunch to the episodes which I like.
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Mar 4, 2018 03:12
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Kanos posted:There's serious design costs to making things airtight and watertight, since you then have to worry about things like life support and oxygen circulation within a closed system. Then the fact that these are combat robots designed to take seriously hard knocks(remember Strelizia getting jackhammered into a steel wall a billion times?) means that to waterproof the cockpits you not only have to make a functioning, closed-circuit life support system that will also not suffer failure or interruption when taking severe damage or else you suffocate your pilots. It's possible that Klaxosaurs simply haven't deployed liquid/gas based natural weaponry before so it's never been a major design concern. And since you bring it up, these mechs really are insanely durable because that piston action Strelizia took was pretty brutal yet the overall damage didn't look that bad. Despite getting slammed for maybe a couple minutes, I only remember seeing scuff marks. And since I'm in the business of thinking how people in-universe think; I give my props to Dr. Franxx for designing a mech that can take that hard a pounding with their back against the wall and still get back up and return it in kind. I know this was a super robot-style series from the first episode when Strelizia transformed. I just like to nitpicking how these things operate. Lurking Haro posted:So what Franxx would Hiro and Naomi have used hadn't they failed the tests? Is there a spare lying around or did it fall into the same plothole as Naomi?
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Mar 4, 2018 05:09
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jng2058 posted:As far as the water-tightness of the mecha, we should also consider that the liquid was clearly some kind of acid, and it's got to be possible that the girls' combat suits are made of the same or similar material as the mecha faceplates, so the stuff just ate a hole into the mecha and then dropped onto the suits which started to melt too. I didn't get the impression that it was corroding the metal. Even the spine and display console on the girls suits were just fine. It was just magical cloth-melting acid.
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Mar 4, 2018 14:36
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Also, I'm glad Goro has gotten out of just being on the sidelines with group interactions over the past three episodes and Futoshi is quickly becoming the most endearing member of the show for me. He's so straightforward with his feelings towards Kokoro, just a stone faced delivery of "I looked because you're amazingly beautiful". doomisland posted:The comment about having to clean the bathroom while the food and laundry just get done by unseen maids was curious. Guy Goodbody posted:How many bowls do you have in your bathroom?
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Mar 4, 2018 15:19
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dogsicle posted:why is this happening 002 calmly reaffirming the whole "you all should be a little pervy" line was great. That whole episode was great.
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Mar 6, 2018 12:57
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It's worth pointing out that Dr. FranXX does have a horn on the metal portion of his face. Not saying he's 002's father, but it could imply that he tried to mix blood himself however you want to interpret that. How he got that injury is surely a story in-and-of itself.
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Mar 7, 2018 05:44
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SpazmasterX posted:Plus we all remember what happened to the last harem protag that just banged girls indiscriminately. That boat ride is still my favorite ending to a harem show.
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Mar 8, 2018 16:40
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PMush Perfect posted:So, to pull the thread back before we go any deeper into this mess, I've got a theory about the klaxosaurs and the whole thing with Hiro's blue heartfuckery. If we're going down that road, I would make the assumption that this is kind of a Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter situation. Where all the pilots are part Klaxosaur with their number denoting the "purity" of their gene base so 002 is borderline pure strain (if we assume the blue blooded character from the first episode is her progenitor). I would argue that the tumor that Hiro spawned, and the fact that it was blue, indicates there is something Klaxosaur in nature operating here beyond just 002. Outside of a single kiss, there wasn't a transfer of fluids between herself and Hiro so the catalyst was him synching up with her in the FranXX. So my current theory is that piloting with 002 triggers the latent Klaxosaur genes in all the Stamens, which previously manifested as rapid aging due to the strain on the body. Without knowing the Codes of her previous partners, I would argue that they were higher numbers and thus more disposable. Those stamens are meant to be consumed and replaced to keep 002 on the front line and Someone like Mitsuru (code 326) would fit the bill. I would be interested if this 9-Iota character, and his group would suffer from any complications when piloting with 002 as with this current idea all single digits are the closest to a pure Klaxosaur that doesn't bleed blue. The one thing that I can't explain is how Hiro was able to suppress his condition during his third ride, as whether or not his growing bond with 002 and her attachment to him, affected how the riding sickness associated with 002 manifested is an open question.
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Mar 9, 2018 03:24
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Zark the Damned posted:It's implied by 9-Alpha that Hiro's 'real' code number is 9-Iota at the end of that episode so that may explain it. I can run with that. Hiro being a secret single digit partially explains his high aptitude and compatibility problems with the regular stamens. The question is how did he manage to get designated 016? It's not like someone spilled coffee on the lab papers.
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Mar 10, 2018 02:39
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Caught up with the last batch of episodes. Was definitely a fun ride through some character development leading into another "6th episode" climax moment it seems. Not much to say about episode 9, Goro getting more character is always good for me as I like the guy. Ichigo finally getting it that Goro is attracted to her and subsequently spilling her spaghetti a bit was a nice scene as well. I hope Goro doesn't die though, he's tripping death flags left and right. Minor nitpick though, When confronted with a flying opponent it made no sense to send in the Melee oriented FranXX first instead of laying down heavy fire from Genista or Chlorophytum. It was only to really get the Delphinium into a position where Goro would be trapped but it was really dumb to just charge in and yes I'm aware that Zorome is the pilot. AnacondaHL posted:From my head as I was watching this ep, to reality: Episode 10 finally gave me an answer for why the city looks deserted whenever we pan over it. The answer was appropriately unnerving as the society is devoid of the "humanity" of people and instead seems like a mix between a Retirement home and mausoleum. People live in this fabulous golden city with good tasting food (I expected those mochi balls to be bland and tasteless "nutrient spheres") and drink, but they are just going through the motions of living and have to be supplied happiness though prodding the brain. It's also nice to get a Zorome episode, I just wish that things like his longing for a maternal figure were more pronounced in earlier episodes. The adventures of Kokoro and Mitsuru was a messy tale though. Out of all the things that happened in that episode the one thing I would change would be making the Partner swap mandatory for just the Genista and Chlorophytum as they are both projectile focused with limited melee options. The reason I say this is because it felt a bit out of place for Kokoro to initiate the idea, but would make more sense for her to wish to maintain the swap after they have had a trial run. She's still a character that is finding her voice as her speech in Episode 8 indicates, she's not used to being assertive. Another thing I saw while re-reading the thread is people trying to figure out whether or not Futoshi's fawning over Kokoro were a part of the reason she wanted the swap; I would disagree with that idea. There are only a few moments in the series that show how these two interact with each other, but given two moments I am inclined to think that Kokoro's reasons are more rooted in this relationship she has constructed with Mitsuru in the garden, and possibly some event that happened in the past depending on how you interpret the "I'm not such a nice girl" line from the cockpit. The big thing to note is that in episode 5, it's unclear who initiated the idea of feeding Futoshi, but Kokoro was the one to suggest that he break the Taboo and sit at the empty seat at the Girl's table. Also, her speech in episode 8 shows that while she is equally confused on how to deal with boys, she values the relationship the two sexes have because it is going to lead to the birth of "something" (while looking at her book we understand one of those things is a child). This isn't to say that Futoshi doesn't need to learn from this as well given he's the Lovable Goof-type character and is a very simple and straightforward person going through heartbreak right now. There are definitely things he could have done to better connect with Kokoro, I'm just not sure whether or not that would have changed her wanting to swap as it's still unclear the full reason for her insisting on the swap in the first place. Someone pointed out that maybe if she has a more checkered past than her exterior would present, she felt undeserving of all the praise. This one is going to need a part 2. The shifting of Hiro and 02 to the side-lines and slowly building up the current episodes problem is a good development as well. I do want to give episode 12 a rewatch but from this there are a couple of interesting thoughts. Mitsuru and Goro's observation that something changed in Hiro: At first I was working with the idea that if these kids are clones, they just changed out Hiro's as one might have died in an experiment (maybe even the Elixer Injection as it has a very low chance of survival) However, it now seems the case that they mind wiped him after he encountered a young 02. Possibly why he was also designated a special specimen. Whether the kids are clones or not: Barring the triplets that are in the 009 group, this would have been the episode to reveal whether or not the kids are cloned when they snuck into the Garden. That's still an option for later but for now I think I'm fine with the kids just being part of a single batch of conscripts. But I also found it worth noting that they could mention Naomi's number and get a response. I would think that their designation would include a generation if each new group of kids were either cloned or unique. Still using my Breath of Fire theory for how numbers are handed out. Ending things on that 002 chokeout though, nice cliffhanger. Saturday can't come fast enough.
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Apr 1, 2018 15:15
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Lestaki posted:When she feels strongly about something and she has the opportunity, she can take action. That's perhaps what she's gained from hanging out in the greenhouse with Mitsuru and reflecting on her own weaknesses. My only problem is that she wants to do this swap and doesn't provide an answer more than "it's complicated" and given how little we actually know about her relationship with Futoshi, and her overall desire on what she's looking for in this new pairing; it just came across as forcing a moment when there was an better way to frame it with the same payout. I'm fine with her wanting to stick with the swap because of her reasons, but much like when I was caught up on the unseen population and it's relation to the worldbuilding during the early episodes, this is something that is going to need a continuation of this sub-plot to fully put things in context. I like her being assertive and trying but this was going from a 4 to a 8 on a ten-point scale. In my head it should have been: Mandatory swap -> Testing -> Regardless of synch results Kokoro insists on staying with Mitsuru -> Cue rest of episode. No real changes needed, just don't have Nana say the swap is optional.
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Apr 2, 2018 00:38
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Kanos posted:There would be no real reason for Nana to issue a mandatory swap order involving Kokoro because if you're only looking at the raw combat data(which Nana and Hachi mostly are), the Genista had been operating very effectively with the Futoshi/Kokoro pair. They're literally the only Franxx in the squad that has never suffered a failure to launch or some sort of mid-combat shutdown that we've seen(Delphinium and Chlorophytum both struggled with this), they rarely get themselves into trouble in combat(Argentea does this all the time), they follow the orders they're given(Strelizia struggles with this), and to an outsider looking in, there's no conflict or problems between the paired pilots and the two of them get along swimmingly. That's why it's shown to come so out of left field and it shocks everyone. Absolutely no one except Kokoro herself is aware that Kokoro is anything but blissfully happy with her current assignment. quote:As for her volunteering the partner swap being too assertive, it's not terribly assertive at all; it's downright passive-aggressive and perfectly in character for someone who wants out of an uncomfortable situation but isn't brave enough for direct confrontation. An out-of-character assertive response would be for her to confront Futoshi about how uncomfortable his loud declarations of love and praise for her are making her and to request for him to tone it down or stop. An out-of-character assertive response would be to actively go to Nana and ask for a partner swap unprompted. Instead, she seized on an opportunity to escape the uncomfortable situation in pretty much the most passive way available to her. This lines up with her talking to Mitsuru about how she's not the good girl everyone thinks she is, because doing it this way caught Futoshi completely off guard and basically ripped him apart because he had no idea he was doing anything wrong because Kokoro never told him that what he was doing was suffocating her because she's too nice.
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Apr 2, 2018 03:31
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Kanos posted:"We have one completely perfectly working combat unit and several dysfunctional ones" would logically lead to the dysfunctional ones being swapped around and leaving the perfectly working one alone because it's not having issues. They're not adverse to washing out parasites entirely(they talked briefly about it maybe happening to Mitsuru, and it already happened to Naomi), so if I were the coordinator only looking at combat performance I would opt to not mess with the stuff that's actually working and instead try experimenting with the dysfunctionals and if I can't get them to work wash them out. quote:You need to look at the context of Futoshi's promise with Kokoro. He makes the declaration on an open communications channel when the entire group is on combat alert and has already fought multiple skirmishes in the area against Klaxosaurs. If Kokoro says "whoa, dude, hang on, no way", she not only completely humiliates Futoshi in front of all of their friends, she risks compromising their combat ability in a potentially dangerous situation if it affects his ability to sync with her. It's like someone popping a marriage proposal to you when you're at dinner with their family or in a big public place; if you care at all about the proposer's feelings, in addition to the pressure of the question itself you have the pressure to consent so you don't risk publicly devastating someone you care about. She also had no idea that she'd be given an opportunity to break her partnership in a sanctioned way at the time, so it's in her interest to keep her relationship with Futoshi outwardly positive. Lestaki posted:I understand your point of view but the core of the episode was that Kokoro did just go from a 4 to an 8 and the world is going to have to deal with it. I agree with Kanos that she still lets it play out in a passive-aggressive way anyway, but at heart she isn't indifferent to piloting with Futoshi and piloting with Mitsuru. She's willing to cause chaos and hurt the feelings of the people around her to get from A to B. This is the clearest evidence we have as to her motives, which imo are not nearly as enigmatic as you imply. Whether or not Kokoro desired to move on to a more mature partner because she found Futoshi lacking, I don't disagree with the logic but I need that to be reflected in the writing and not just the discussion surrounding the story. quote:I can't say this is The One True Interpretation but at the least it explains everything Kokoro does in episode 11. Incidentally I see Mitsuru as reciprocating her attraction by the end of the episode, which is why I see him as at least bi despite his childhood shenanigans with Hiro. But who knows.
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Apr 2, 2018 12:30
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Sazabi posted:That's pretty much my take. I'm only saying the initial suggestion was a mandatory swap testing in this re-write. I'm saying she insists on maintaining the swap afterwards which puts her in the same position of willingly breaking up the pair. Also, I still don't find any subtext to back up that Futoshi is the reason for her wanting to leave. Nothing in all that I remember backs this up. Not when 02 showed up and she invited Futoshi to sit next to her, not at the beach, not when she was voicing her opinion about the girls splitting the house, and not in the same episode she initiated the swap. If anyone can explain to me where they are getting this I'm more than willing to be wrong. Because I believe that it's a perfectly logical train of reasoning, but I don't see the evidence to support it.
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Apr 3, 2018 01:57
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