|
OK guys, heading out the door now. Birb I will not hold it against you if you decide to vote for me. I'll try to check in between plant and soccer and I'll check in after soccer tonight if I don't have another allergic reaction like the other night.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 14:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 04:23 |
|
|
Plant called me partway into my journey out that way and rescheduled for tomorrow so I'll be around off and on for until mid-afternoon, then.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 15:48
|
|
|
chaoslord posted:1. ##vote I R SMART LIKE ROCK I am unable to hide every night. I’m forced to rest the night after I hide; as to not be broken af. I hid N2, N5 and N7. I skipped in the middle as I felt reasonably sure I wouldn’t be targeted by night kills
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:07
|
|
I R SMART
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:I am unable to hide every night. I’m forced to rest the night after I hide; as to not be broken af. I hid N2, N5 and N7. I skipped in the middle as I felt reasonably sure I wouldn’t be targeted by night kills That's interesting. The hider from DBZ1 could hide every night. But I've also always thought "hiding every night" was kind of broken and maybe Nat20 came to the same conclusion. But then if he changed that maybe CE isn't confirmed. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (Funny enough, CE was the hider in the last DBZ game)
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:13
|
|
|
I’ve been thinking about a few things. Mord made the claim that their team was given the safe fake claims of Korin and King Cold. Yajirobe and Mecha-Frieza are in the game. Maybe the pair of characters, excluding the best friends, aren’t both in the game where one of the pair is an actual role in game and the other is a fake claim. The purpose would be to provide clues for those players This would mean that since Dende was in the game; that Mr. Popo, chaoslord, would not be and that it’s a safe fake claim It also looks like chaoslord has started the voting phase, so I hope this goes well: ##vote chaoslord
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:15
|
|
|
chaoslord posted:That's interesting. The hider from DBZ1 could hide every night. If I’m being honest CE basically having vanished from the thread has been pinging me but there’s not a lot we can do about it. They have a fairly solid defense that if false would have to mean the Best Friends thing was a red herring and that somehow CE knew of it before the death of Yamcha. That just feels so unlikely
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:21
|
|
|
Looking back, Crazyeyes's story checks out all the way back to D1. It's pretty much down to Rock and Chaos in my eyes. Who are, of course, now voting each other. I think ##vote chaoslord is the right call, but we've got at least one more day to make up for it if it's not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:26
|
|
|
All the dead good power roles and an SK here in the waning moments of the game is... frustrating.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:26
|
|
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:If I’m being honest CE basically having vanished from the thread has been pinging me but there’s not a lot we can do about it. They have a fairly solid defense that if false would have to mean the Best Friends thing was a red herring and that somehow CE knew of it before the death of Yamcha. That just feels so unlikely CE is 1000% definitely a Best Friend. I'm just saying in most mafia games I have played, if the masonry is Confirmed (as in, both players have been told by the mod that they are town, as opposed to unconfirmed where you're in a masonry and don't know the other players alignment), it is usually stated, as in soda(?) would have flipped "Confirmed Mason" instead of just "Mason". That said, in DBZ1, he had the same role, Best Friends, and they were mod confirmed to each other, but did not flip Confirmed Mason. I believe CE has the role of best friend, but I was initially skeptical of his "Oh we were confirmed town to each other" because of course you would say that if you were scum in an unconfirmed masonry, and it didn't flip as a confirmed masonry. Based on Nat20's other game with the same role, though, I think it's a safe assumption CE is town.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:27
|
|
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:If I’m being honest CE basically having vanished from the thread has been pinging me but there’s not a lot we can do about it. They have a fairly solid defense that if false would have to mean the Best Friends thing was a red herring and that somehow CE knew of it before the death of Yamcha. That just feels so unlikely Yamcha and Cell being "best friends" narratively makes no sense and, at the very least, the flavor would check out there. If they were unconfirmed masons and CE was Cell then... what the hell kinda lovely role is that for Yamcha to get? Plus CE stated D1 he knew Yamcha was town and SOMEONE'S gotta be the best friend. CE checks out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
Little Mac posted:Looking back, Crazyeyes's story checks out all the way back to D1. Yeah, that's fair. I will still say "Both Gene and Rhjamiz started to push on me before their respective ends" but that can easily been seen as light scum bussing so I don't expect that to be persuasive. CE isn't going to be reappearing, I don't expect, so now to just wait for the aussies. Or, said another way... why isnt birb posting???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
The question I find myself asking is, why only 1 kill on n3 and 4. Was it cell or scum? It seems the cult thing was true.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:35
|
|
|
## vote chaoslord I'm probably dead tonight so good luck guys.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 18:44
|
|
|
50 pounds of bread posted:The question I find myself asking is, why only 1 kill on n3 and 4. Was it cell or scum? It seems the cult thing was true. I think on n3 it was scum and on n4 it was Cell. Mord claimed the kill on n3 (flipped-scum Gene). No one claimed N4's kill of flerp (Mord claims to have withheld the kill - don't necessarily 100% believe this, this was instead more likely a recruit night for Gero). So, flerp was PROBABLY a definitive Cell kill. On n4 Asiina jailed you. Couldn't be 50. On n4 smart was tracked to nowhere by Bird. Couldn't be smart. My confirmed ability is one-shot and I used it on N3. Couldn't be me. Crazyeyes and Chaoslord are left, but Crazy still has the best friends claim. Chaoslord is the best option. For whatever reason he withheld his kill.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:06
|
|
|
Birb, I forgive you for what you must do  I don't think we can blow it at this point tbh unless I'm wrong about there being only 1 scum left
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:14
|
|
|
if it’s crazy maybe we’ll be able to lurker gun him
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
##vote chaoslord
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:38
|
|
|
  chaoslordVotecount for Day 8  chaoslord (4): I R SMART LIKE ROCK, Little Mac, 50 pounds of bread, Birdstrike I R SMART LIKE ROCK (1): chaoslord Not Voting (1): CrazyeyesWith 6 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is April 05th, 2018 at 11:59 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 9 hours, 20 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 19:38
|
|
|
 chaoslord, Mr Popo, Town aligned Vanilla God left the game laughing  Crazyeyes, Puar, Town aligned Vanilla was endgamed.  Little Mac, King Kai, Town aligned Kaioken Teacher was endgamed  I R SMART LIKE ROCK, Yajirobe, Yajirobe Aligned (3P Survivor) Hider was endgamed  50 pounds of bread, Krillin, Town aligned Doctor, was owned.  Birdstrike, (Perfect) Cell Aligned, Deathproof 1 (protects against everything but lynches, explodes on expiry), Bulletproof 2, Solar Kamehameha (Strongman, Bypass action failure, Oneshot copy NK), Cell Jr. (Extra Permanent vote), Stalk (Track + Flavourcop) has won the game! The spectator doc is below: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xbj6H-n32UBmvs1y-fGTO2NFB_dX3mGgXTSxU7E0TFE/edit?usp=sharing Discord permissions will be changed shortly to give access to the various chats. Congratulations to Birdstrike and thank you all for playing Dragonball Z Mafia 2.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:42
|
|
|
Why did the game end? Birdstrike as perfect Cell created an extra vote on Night 7 (using Cell Jr.), avoided the lunch on Day 8 and created a second extra vote using Cell Jr. on Night 8, gaining control of the vote and the victory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
Lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:44
|
|
|
A Review of the Game An Apology The first thing I as moderator of this game need to do is apologise. There were roles within this game that certain players reacted incredibly negatively to, lying around the limited-cult mechanic I included within the game. Know that the intent of the game was never for my amusement and that my failure to mention this mechanic was in no way malicious. The very basic conception of the game was a weaker scum team that could expand in a limited manner facing off against a stronger scum team that was faced with a greater existential threat. Put simply, I was naive. My assumption was that the negative feelings about cult mechanics lay around the issue that cults by their very nature can lead to weird situations where town can lynch correctly for the entire game and still lose. I assumed by creating a balanced game, the objections to cult mechanics would not be valid. This is because I fundamentally do not play mafia with the end outcome of winning as my goal. I play mafia for the experience of the game itself, whether I win or lose. Were I to be culted after playing a strong town game and lose as a result, I would think nothing of it. I understand now is that for a large number of players this is simply not the case and that cults fundamentally destroy their enjoyment of the game. I am genuinely sorry that you were not forewarned about the mechanic and it's something that will never happen again within my games. I additionally need to apologise for how I handled the path the thread took going from near the end of D2 to the modkills. My broad opinion coming into the game was that moderation should take a hands off approach. This led to me watching the thread deteriorate and become an environment that certain players felt unable to play in. Put simply, I should not have allowed that to happen, I should have stepped in earlier and more forcefully and it’s something I’m going to keep an eye out for in the future. For those new players who played in this game, the mood of the thread in those days is not representative of the way we play Mafia here, nor is it the kind of game I ever want to be responsible for creating again. Beyond these views I have others: There are some items where I am sympathetic to the frustration that was caused and will change the way I moderate in the future but ultimately do not feel I was necessarily wrong. When I state “You’re welcome to pursue flavour, but don’t assume I haven’t thought about it,” that is not the same as “Flavour has no relevance to the game,” if I intended the latter I would unequivocally state the latter and it should be clear that they do not mean the same thing. With that being said, what I do mean by “You’re welcome to pursue flavour” is not as clear as it could be. This means that whilst flavour will often be consistent, scum will be protected by elaborate fakeclaims and some roles will only be tangentially related to their character. Going forward this is what I will explicitly state ahead of my games. When I make a ruling, I am doing so with full knowledge of the game in mind and will do so to ensure consistency going forward above what seems immediately most fair. This is because I as a moderator know more about how other parts of the game’s mechanism will be affected. There are situations as moderator which I did not forsee happening. In these situations I ruled based on the effect something had on the game, consistency and then intuition, taking much of what my Co-mod Bif suggested as important. So whilst some rulings may have been frustrating to the individual seeing them, I did so to ensure the game continued as best as possible. (I even made a small log of significant rulings I had to make that you can view in the moddoc) On Balance: There could have been things done to further balance the game. Gero, probably needed one more recruit, or one more starting member. The Androids/Krillin love effect probably wasn’t good for balance. Broadly, the scope of the game gave me too many opportunities to play with cool effects and I was too tempted to put them in. However, I believe that looking back all parties had an acceptable chance of winning the game and that items such as HTC upgrades were made with as much care as possible to make them interesting and interactive. (Apart from Hercule, sorry Sal!) There are aspects I’d change were I to make this game again, however, I think largely that the game fell within my acceptable frame of reference for a role madness game. On Mafia: There is a reason I sign up to role madness and a reason I primarily make role madness games. Mafia at its core is a game about understanding people, but we don’t play a game absent roles every single time because that is not the only thing mafia is about. Mafia is also a game about adapting to different situations given imperfect information and trying to understand people’s incentives given the changes that you are aware of. Simply put, it is possible to scumhunt in a role madness game, even with very strange roles floating about. People feign surprise, people mess up statements, all of these things happen and are often more likely to because of the different mechanics at play. To claim otherwise is to simply put, claim that you’re bad at adapting to different circumstances, to which I’d say, learn, get better at adapting, get better at examining the plausibility of claims. Otherwise, don’t play role madness to begin with. It’s okay if it’s not for you. Anyway, with that all being said, thanks to Bifauxnen for helping co-mod this game and offering really helpful advice, thanks to Podima for backseat modding and helping me out a bunch because the man can’t help himself and most importantly, thanks to you for making a game I really enjoyed watching.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:46
|
|
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:Comedy option right now is that one of the Birb / Rhj combo is Cell and the other is Gero. Then of course they’d be at each other’s throats while the rest of us watch in horror ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:47
|
|
|
Now that the game is over, I can post the stuff I created after I died:  Good game everyone, and congratulations Birdstrike for a game well played. It was fun sitting in a mostly empty spectator chat and suddenly gaining more chat buddies quickly! Thanks for making my first experience playing Mafia very fun and memorable. I hope to keep playing with you all and make more of an impact next time. Thanks especially to Natural 20 and Bifauxnen for their hard work running this game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:50
|
|
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME If only you guys had focused on Cell instead of Gero. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:51
|
|
|
I told you guys that Cell was a threat. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
Well I tried. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:56
|
|
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:57
|
|
|
Extremely lol at everyone who was full on KB IS PROBABLY LYING THIS IS A GAMBIT. Also, i'm responsible for Mord's shameatar. He well and truly deserved it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:57
|
|
|
Mad props to Bird who did play a good game, though. I wouldnt have done any better at the end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
Congrats, birb, you earned it
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
Good game bird you worked for it. Pffft still salty at gene for getting me nuked. :P
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:00
|
|
|
im a huge fan of the sk having specific players to kill
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
Monathin posted:Extremely lol at everyone who was full on KB IS PROBABLY LYING THIS IS A GAMBIT. Yeah, I mean, I'd think it would be obvious by now, I don't lie if I don't have to. Regardless of alignment. I do fudge things when I need to, but it always based in the truth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:ARE YOU loving KIDDING ME I lol'd so hard when you posted this
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:05
|
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I told you guys that Cell was a threat. yeah too bad u spent all ur time trying 2 kill goku ggs everyone
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:05
|
|
|
Nep-Nep posted:
yes... hard work... Bif, much earlier posted:prolly best to just say gently caress it and throw em all in the sandbox and bash all the toys together to see what happens haha
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:05
|
|
|
Congrats, birb! You redeemed your DBZ villain play from Namek saga mafia*  Thanks to the mods for hosting and thanks to everyone involved for playing, this game was a wild ride and hilarious to play *if there is ever buu saga mafia know that I will just automatically assume you're majin buu
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:06
|
|
|
Birdstrike posted:Sal died the way he lived Bird I thought this was incredible cheeky. Mr. Satan vs. Cell :-D
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 04:23 |
|
|
Mordiceius posted:I told you guys that Cell was a threat. Okay but no joke, if you ever play anywhere else like you play in this game I'm policy dunking you on sight. You were Extremely loving Uncool this game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2018 22:11
|
|