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EclecticTastes posted:Well, fact is, it doesn't matter how qualified Alm is, he's a filthy commoner, so Fernand wants nothing to do with him. Never mind that he's the grandson of their nation's greatest hero, not to mention heir to whatever titles Mycen still held claim to, he grew up in a village, where people do their own work. Like savages. Whatever other bullshit reasons Fernand comes up with is just cover for that irrational hatred. It's actually a pretty realistic portrayal of bigotry, for a video game made for children (though it wouldn't be a first for Fire Emblem, given some scenes in the Radiant games). "Okay so this is Gonzales, he's a Brigand that Princess Lilina recruited on the Western Isles. He's can't speak English very good and he's, uh... missing some teeth. But he kills dragons pretty good. He also sat on a mountain and single-handedly took out a quarter of Bern's Dragon rider army." "Okay so this is Nino, a former mage of the Black Fang, and this scary-looking guy next to her is Jaffar, the Angel of Death. Jaffar doesn't talk much, but we just give him a few Killing Edges and point him towards the enemy, and he does the rest. I'd advise against any hurtful remarks about Nino, or Jaffar might slip a dagger in your back before you know what happened."
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Jul 19, 2018 00:55
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"This is Lyon. He is an honest-to-god actual necromancer, and he raised the Demon King to conquer the world, but we found him in this weird-rear end tower. Don't question it."
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Jul 19, 2018 01:33
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"Fernand, allow me to introduce Haar. He's a Wyvern Lord from Daein and yes a wyvern is sorta kinda a dragon and sorta kinda not. It's weird, but...yes, that is indeed Haar snoring. Yes, he can still function as a flying tank. No, I do not know how he is able to hold chokepoints while fast asleep, Haar just does that. Trust me, he has not let us down yet."
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Jul 19, 2018 02:07
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You guys are really over thinking this. If you want to piss off Fernand you just say "this is Soren, he's a gutter-orphan who's skilled enough with magic and tactics to be the chief strategist of a group of similarly non-noble mercenaries who kick everyone's butts and save the world twice."
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Jul 19, 2018 02:21
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Bruceski posted:You guys are really over thinking this. If you want to piss off Fernand you just say "this is Soren, he's a gutter-orphan who's skilled enough with magic and tactics to be the chief strategist of a group of similarly non-noble mercenaries who kick everyone's butts and save the world twice." I feel like Soren isn't a good choice because unknown to him he is actually the son of royalty.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:27
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Hunt11 posted:I feel like Soren isn't a good choice because unknown to him he is actually the son of royalty. wonder how fernand would react to like, the FE4 gen 2 cast who find out they're actually nobility "see this mercenary who works for an orphanage and this petty thief? well see their mom's actually the heir to a dukedom"
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Jul 19, 2018 02:29
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:wonder how fernand would react to like, the FE4 gen 2 cast who find out they're actually nobility "This is Chrom, Prince of Ylisse and rightful... No! Chrom, you're supposed to peel the orange first!"
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Jul 19, 2018 02:33
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Hunt11 posted:I feel like Soren isn't a good choice because unknown to him he is actually the son of royalty. Yeah but nobody figures that out unless you have some incredibly specific support conversations at the right time and, if I remember right, a combat conversation that's likely to get Soren killed. Anyway, "son of a king who used me as bait for a dragon, then forced me upon a nurse who hated the burden and sold me to a sage, after he died I went feral and Ike was the only person nice to me so I hunted him down years later and swore loyalty to his family" isn't bad in its own right. Fernand may think he has a sob story, but Soren EARNED his right to be a jerk-rear end. Bruceski fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 02:34
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chiasaur11 posted:"This is Chrom, Prince of Ylisse and rightful... No! Chrom, you're supposed to peel the orange first!"
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Jul 19, 2018 02:44
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The Awakening cast in general would probably cause Fernand to start foaming at the mouth.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:48
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Saladin Rising posted:"This is Lissa, Chrom's sister. She's a magic user, but lately she's gotten very good at smacking people in the face with giant axes. You can ask our Tactician how "Second Seals" work just as soon as they finish eating bear meat with Chrom. Yes, that's wild bear meat, what kind of meat did you think it was?" "also where did the tactician come from? who the gently caress knows man"
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Jul 19, 2018 02:50
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Hunt11 posted:The Awakening cast in general would probably cause Fernand to start foaming at the mouth.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:56
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Fernand: it is an honor to meet one such as you, prince chrom. Chrom: And you Fernand, another brave warrior is always welcome here. Fernand(Internal monologue): oh thank god! It's good to be amongst those who understand pedigree and class again after leaving that betrayer Clive! ??????: yeeeeeeeehaw!
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Jul 19, 2018 03:20
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Bruceski posted:I don't think it was supposed to make him sympathetic, it sounded like an excuse people make for why they hang out with douchebags/abusers IRL. Ding-ding-ding. Fernand is exactly the sort of person you see out in the streets, blaming whatever marginalized group is most convenient for all of their problems, usually pointing to a single bad experience that involved (almost always by coincidence of lovely people being everywhere, rather than specific dint of their identity) a person or persons from that group. Eating a 90-damage critical at some point later in the game to own the poors. Bruceski posted:Yeah but nobody figures that out unless you have some incredibly specific support conversations at the right time and, if I remember right, a combat conversation that's likely to get Soren killed. Anyway, "son of a king who used me as bait for a dragon, then forced me upon a nurse who hated the burden and sold me to a sage, after he died I went feral and Ike was the only person nice to me so I hunted him down years later and swore loyalty to his family" isn't bad in its own right. If you know it's coming (and unlocking that scene is basically impossible without knowing what to do ahead of time), you can take a few fairly simple steps to get a sniper tome into Soren's hands for the purpose of triggering the necessary conversation from a safe distance (Nailah being literally the only character on that map capable of significantly harming a properly-raised Soren). And if we're comparing Path of Radiance characters to Fernand in terms of being a prick, Shinon kind of does literally the exact same thing, though for reasons that make more sense and with less blatant hypocrisy. Basically, he quits the Greil Mercenaries after Greil dies, despite them being in pretty rough straits and currently protecting a princess being hunted by an explicitly very evil army. However, he never claims to be a good person or someone with any concerns about justice; he's pretty up-front that he's concerned almost exclusively with himself (and the "almost" doesn't amount to much), and he makes it clear he was only ever loyal to Ike's father. Like Fernand, he was an rear end in a top hat who bailed on the good guys when they were in dire need of help, but unlike Fernand, he was much more honest about his reasons.
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Jul 19, 2018 03:34
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FoolyCharged posted:Fernand: it is an honor to meet one such as you, prince chrom. Chrom's best friends: Knight who used to dunk his head in the toilet when they were kids Gutter dwelling idiot Thief who was hired to kill his sister Smelly hobo amnesiac he found lying on the ground. Fernand's going to have a full on logic loop crash.
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Jul 19, 2018 03:35
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Fernand has night terrors about being summoned into Askr.
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Jul 19, 2018 03:38
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chiasaur11 posted:Smelly hobo amnesiac he found lying on the ground. who is not only the mother/husband of his time traveling daughter but is also literally the anti-christ.
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Jul 19, 2018 03:41
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Supersonic Shine posted:Fernand has night terrors about being summoned into Askr. Could be worse. He could wake up as a Mirage in Tokyo and be forced to work alongside a bunch of insane troubadours.
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Jul 19, 2018 03:55
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Bruceski posted:Yeah but nobody figures that out unless you have some incredibly specific support conversations at the right time and, if I remember right, a combat conversation that's likely to get Soren killed. Anyway, "son of a king who used me as bait for a dragon, then forced me upon a nurse who hated the burden and sold me to a sage, after he died I went feral and Ike was the only person nice to me so I hunted him down years later and swore loyalty to his family" isn't bad in its own right. It's actually surprising that Soren isn't even more of a dick when you think about. It also makes Fernand look even worse.
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Jul 19, 2018 12:43
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I mean Soren is only as moral as he is because his response to all of Ike’s ideas is “yes, Ike.” He is the dude who totally wanted to bail on Elincia and join the Deains when they first found her since the Deains were the clear victors, after all.
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Jul 19, 2018 14:36
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I mean, the people in Awakening who are actually nobility include Virion and Sully. Maribelle is the closest Fernand would be able to get to his idea of 'royalty', and she's not nearly as pompous as he is.
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Jul 19, 2018 15:46
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ApplesandOranges posted:I mean, the people in Awakening who are actually nobility include Virion and Sully. I feel like Maribelle would try to snap his neck as she is very much a believer in the responsibilities of nobility .
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Jul 19, 2018 16:14
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Wasn't Maribelle also a secret country gal like Calill, or did I make that up?
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Jul 19, 2018 16:19
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Wasn't Maribelle also a secret country gal like Calill, or did I make that up? Maribelle is a surprisingly fantastic character all told, though, and her support with Gaius is one of my favorites in the series.
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Jul 19, 2018 16:25
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theshim posted:No, you made that up. To be fair though, Gaius has pretty excellent supports in general. I think his supports with Chrom are really good at fleshing out both characters and I love his supports with Maribelle, Lissa, and the avatar.
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Jul 19, 2018 16:42
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Ah, fair enough. I've only married her to Gregor, and their supports mostly flesh out how amazing Gregor is. I can't imagine Brady as anything but a war priest who is the son of Gregor the berserker.
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Jul 19, 2018 16:48
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If Brady isn't the splitting image of Vaike you're doing it wrong.
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Jul 19, 2018 17:27
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Hunt11 posted:I feel like Maribelle would try to snap his neck as she is very much a believer in the responsibilities of nobility . I think she'd have the best shot at a conversation, considering her basic belief structure is "Nobles are an inherently superior class of humanity", to the point I suspect if she was present for this little debate, she would describe Alm as "One of the good ones". She's definitely all in for reform and treating peasants fairly, but that's in large part because of her initial beliefs that the best way to prove nobles are better is to make the playing field as fair as possible.
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Jul 19, 2018 20:25
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chiasaur11 posted:I think she'd have the best shot at a conversation, considering her basic belief structure is "Nobles are an inherently superior class of humanity", to the point I suspect if she was present for this little debate, she would describe Alm as "One of the good ones". They may sound similar in opinion, but there is a very important distinction between "Nobles are better" and "Peasants are scum". Also, I can only see Vaike as Owain's father. Where the hell else would he get it from?!
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Jul 19, 2018 20:37
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BlazetheInferno posted:They may sound similar in opinion, but there is a very important distinction between "Nobles are better" and "Peasants are scum". Henry. He got it from Henry. And they are very different in practice, but they sound similar enough that it could be a while before they'd realize how different they are. It's also a prospective Fernand could see as "understandable, but wrong" as opposed to simply insane.
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Jul 19, 2018 21:21
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I gotta be honest, I forgot Vaike even existed. I benched him as soon as I had the chance, made Gregor my axe person, and never looked back. I don't even recall why I disliked him, but the character never appealed to me.
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Jul 19, 2018 21:29
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BlazetheInferno posted:Also, I can only see Vaike as Owain's father. Where the hell else would he get it from?! Lissa. They may not share the weapon-naming thing, but she's got the same level of energy. Also, personally, I used Lon'qu, to make sure Owain got good Swordmaster stats. Also he looks objectively better with dark hair.
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Jul 19, 2018 22:44
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chiasaur11 posted:And they are very different in practice, but they sound similar enough that it could be a while before they'd realize how different they are. It's also a prospective Fernand could see as "understandable, but wrong" as opposed to simply insane. Oh god, I just remembered that Lissa mucked around in a swamp catching frogs to drop down the Avatar's cloak. That right there would be more than enough to start Fernand on a tirade, which would be abruptly ended when 3/4's of Awakening's cast simultaneously decked him for insulting Lissa. Bonus points if Owain challenges Fernand to a duel for "insulting my mother's honor". This page has made me realize just how great Awakening's characterization is, as an aside.
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Jul 19, 2018 22:57
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Awakening has problems, but the characters for the most part are pretty good.
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Jul 19, 2018 23:41
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Saladin Rising posted:I feel like anything with Maribelle would last until Fernand said something disrespectful about Lissa or Chrom. Maribelle would defend both of them with her life, and there's no way Fernand would be able to refrain from calling them "an insult to royalty" or something similar. Yeah, it had the same localizers as Echoes, and you can really tell the difference between them and Fates. Characters have distinct voices and bounce off each other in fun ways, where Fates tended to have flat voices for everyone. Makes supports much more tedious.
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Jul 19, 2018 23:45
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, it had the same localizers as Echoes, and you can really tell the difference between them and Fates. Echoes and Awakening we're done by 8-4 right?
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Jul 19, 2018 23:46
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loving love Fiona Apple posted:Echoes and Awakening we're done by 8-4 right? yup looks like treehouse is getting to do three houses; jury's out on whether that'll be good
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Jul 19, 2018 23:48
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I don't think the issue was the characters in Fates seeming "flat", so much as the least interesting characters getting all the lines. The retainers and their kids had tons of personality*, but it was the unnecessarily-sprawling royal family that ate up the vast majority of the script. As for why that's a bad thing, their personalities all boiled down to "Hey, here's nine different not-quite-incestuous-wink-wink love interest archetypes, you DO like incest, right?" Gonna go out on a limb and say a slightly different translation wouldn't have helped much in that regard. The more I think critically about Fates, the less I like it, much as I enjoyed certain specific characters. *I would pay full price for an entire game starring Arthur and Azama.
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Jul 20, 2018 01:56
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EclecticTastes posted:I don't think the issue was the characters in Fates seeming "flat", so much as the least interesting characters getting all the lines. The retainers and their kids had tons of personality*, but it was the unnecessarily-sprawling royal family that ate up the vast majority of the script. As for why that's a bad thing, their personalities all boiled down to "Hey, here's nine different not-quite-incestuous-wink-wink love interest archetypes, you DO like incest, right?" Gonna go out on a limb and say a slightly different translation wouldn't have helped much in that regard. The more I think critically about Fates, the less I like it, much as I enjoyed certain specific characters. Haha, no. Not that you aren't broadly correct, but even in instances where there was personality, Treehouse occasionally ripped it out, like the infamous Saizo/Beruka support, where they stripped everything out in order to do a lovely "......." meme. While there wasn't much to work with, Treehouse did an utter poo poo job even taking that into account.
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Jul 20, 2018 02:00
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Lord Koth posted:Haha, no. Not that you aren't broadly correct, but even in instances where there was personality, Treehouse occasionally ripped it out, like the infamous Saizo/Beruka support, where they stripped everything out in order to do a lovely "......." meme. While there wasn't much to work with, Treehouse did an utter poo poo job even taking that into account. I'm aware of some of those changes, my theory is that their localization budget and timetable were calculated and handed down before it became clear that they'd need to spend extra time and money excising all the groping minigames and dummying out the lingerie. As for why they weren't adjusted for what was clearly a tentpole project, I wouldn't know, but to simply claim incompetence when the circumstances could well have been more complicated than that feels a little reductive and unfair. But, given how all the changed scenes involved replacing more detailed dialog with very brief jokey-jokes that required zero effort to slap in, it feels to me more like they ran out of time/money than they genuinely thought it would be better that way.
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Jul 20, 2018 02:18
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