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Scanned for my name - left off - please add me as disgruntled big law M&A associate.
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Aug 8, 2018 06:02
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I guess I should add some actual content - so here is what I consider to be the overview of the Houston big law market - it's long, meandering and not user friendly, just like all legal writing should be. If you don't give a poo poo about big law - skip it - if you're in big law in another city, I'd read - Houston is an interesting market right now - and it pays full Cravath/Milbank scale. Transactional Historically, Houston transactional work was always related to the energy industry (the attendant M&A, debt finance, cap markets, insurance, etc... were all in conjunction with the energy industry) and was relatively insular and home grown - this incredible article from 1973 gives a snapshot of what Houston big law was like through the late 2000's (with certain changes as we modernized from the 70's). It was dominated by Baker Botts, V&E, Fulbright & Jaworski (now Norton Rose Fulbright), Andrews Kurth (now Hunton Andrews Kurth) and Bracewell & Patterson (now just Bracewell after a brief stint as Bracewell & Giuliani (yes, that Giuliani). If you were from Harvard, Yale or Stanford and wanted to work in Houston, you went to Baker Botts or V&E and if you went to an elite Houston private school and were an SAE at UT you went to AK or Bracewell. Together - those firms represented the major energy firms in their transactional work. There was not a lot of movement between the firms and it was relatively frowned upon to switch from one to the other, it was indicative that something was wrong. The work was largely for major oil companies and banks that represent them (the big market upheaval was in the 1980s and 90s when banks began merging and consolidating - upending the structure described in the Texas Monthly article where the major firms had an associated bank - Bracewell got to be a major player by representing NY and European banks) Certain other firms attempted to break into the Houston market to varying levels of success - Weil Gotshal opened an office in conjunction with the Enron bankruptcy, but it had all but closed by 2013, Baker Mackenzie and DLA had outposts here because they have outposts everywhere and certain smaller regional firms established some litigation and minor transactional footholds here (Baker Hostetler, Akin Gump etc..), but by and large - Houston firms were where you had to be. A number of these firms tried opening offices by moving folks from their major hubs to Houston, but it never worked, because the city and the energy industry in general is so insular (it's basically that salsa commercial from the 90's where we hate everything from New York City and love everything from San Antonio, because despite never having been there, George Strait said he came up from San Antone that one time so it's cool). Latham & Watkins was the first to truly break this mold by coming in and poaching a number of partners from V&E and Baker Botts to build a Cap Markets based practice in Houston in conjunction with the MLP Boom that has been tremendously successful. Kirkland & Ellis followed, but poached partners from STB's Houston office and Baker Botts to build an M&A and bankruptcy practice that has now become the most successful firm in Houston. Others have replicated the model, but not to the level of success of K&E and Latham. Sidley has a strong office in Houston. Orrick, Gibson Dunn, Shearman and Sterling and White & Case have recently opened up offices to varying levels of success but basically based on the same model of poaching partners from the established Houston firms. As you might imagine, this growth of national firms in Houston has come at the expense of the old line Houston firms - Andrews Kurth all but collapsed and was bought out by Hunton & Williams, Fulbright merged with Norton Rose to become NRF and is basically a non-factor, Baker Botts has lost an enormous number of partners to Latham, K&E and Gibson (I'm not sure they have an actual upstream practice anymore, the recent BHP sale notwithstanding)and Bracewell is seemingly on very shaky ground. V&E is the only Texas firm left that is on equal footing with Latham and K&E and those three are the dominant players in the transactional market. The reason for the shift is the entry of Private Equity. It was often too risky for PE shops to enter the energy field with its arcane land rules presided over by high school educated land-men who could tell you after you just spent a billion dollars that you don't actually own anything until oil became crazy expensive in the 2010-2014 time frame. That brought the bulge bracket PE firms into the energy space for the first time and they were more comfortable using counsel they were familiar with (STB, Kirkland, Latham) than the Houston firms that had been doing this type of work (except for VE - which made a concerted effort to become the preeminent energy PE firm through the 2000s) - additionally, the price of oil collapsed in late 2014 putting actual oil companies in a precarious position where they were basically frozen in place, trying to stave off bankruptcy. PE firms had a ton of dry powder as they raised energy funds in the 2012-14 time frame and had capital to buy assets from struggling strategics. Because of all the new entrants to the market, the lateral market (between Houston firms and for folks moving from out of state to Houston) is loving insane right now - there are six figure signing bonuses for 2nd and 3rd year associates because warm bodies are needed - so if you're in NYC or DC or SF and you're sick of that poo poo, come down to Houston, get a loving huge signing bonus, use it to buy a house you could never afford in Manhattan and do the lord's work - help private equity funds buy fracking assets. TL;DR - V&E, Kirkland and Latham now dominate the Houston transactional market - the Texas firms are still there but struggling. Private equity is the huge market disruptor of the last 5 years. Litigation Who cares - litigation is boring and dumb. If you want to be a litigator in Houston, don't do it at a big firm, go to one of the elite boutiques (Susman, Yetter Coleman, Beck Redden AZA). At a big firm, you're a doc review monkey, at the the boutiques, you can like...learn to be a lawyer. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 07:02
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Vox Nihili posted:jesus christ i hope youre not one of the people i have to interact with Aren't you a specialist? Come on now - you know the specialists don't get to interact with humans Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Aug 8, 2018 |
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Aug 8, 2018 13:28
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Discendo Vox posted:I saw a post about "auto admit" and horrible incel racism at the very end of the last thread, and now I'm intrigued. Go to xoxohth.com - spend the day reading what's going on there and report back. It will be fun. Like the other poster noted, it's a shadow of it's former self and dying forum of elder millennials (sound familiar?) and is now just basically Stormfront.
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Aug 8, 2018 14:21
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In the spirit of effortposts - is there any interest in a lovely law school tips and tricks effort post? How to make it when you're not T14? The types of jobs you should be looking for etc...?
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Aug 8, 2018 22:49
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Today is the day where I walk in and officially quit big law and put in my two weeks. 3 years and 51 weeks. It is finally over. Going to be a partner track associate at a small firm that has a niche government/regulatory practice, spend evenings with my 4 week old baby and take him on trips where his dad will be present and not working (something his mother never got the benefit of since our honeymoon). Praise Allah. Post the emails Throatwarbler and I'll put you in touch with the lateral team at my big law firm. We don't have a Dubai office, so having live in slaves may not be a career growth possibility (however we do have offices in the American South and after another 4 years of Trump, sky is the limit for what we can do!)
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Aug 23, 2018 15:01
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Popero posted:Congrats on your freedom! Though one wonders why you would choose now to spend more time at home with a four week old. I put in my two weeks so will have a total of 6 at home. I told the new firm I would take the paternity leave from the new place and then start. It maxes at 6.
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Aug 23, 2018 15:08
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mikeraskol posted:Can I tell you something honestly if you aren't a troll? I'm on a hiring committee at a NYC big law firm. I (and everyone else doing what I do) don't give two fucks about your extracurriculars or your demonstrated interests or your classes or whatever. I care about your grades and whether you can come across in a 30 minute interview as a normal human being. I agree - and have been on the hiring committee for a big firm for the past few years as well. No one cares what your personal interests are. If you only care about getting paid all day while solving problems or whatever, just do M&A. You'll spend your first few years doing diligence on transactions - reading over contracts from the target, trying to spot issues and then translate said issues into a concise bullet point easily digested by business people who do not give a poo poo. As you grow into your career, you'll start doing the same for the actual transaction documents where you basically translate business speak into a legal document. The practice is also extremely broad and every major firm has an enormous group that does it - you'll GET MONEY and have the best shot at big law.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:I tossed around the idea of starting grad school this fall for a one year MS in either finance or economics. I had the go ahead from both departments based on my undergrad (and GI bill to spend), but my law school career counselor said it would end my legal career before it started if I went back to school. So I put off the GRE to try to job hunt. I haven't followed the thread regularly - but why did you give up Taco life for struggling lawyer life?
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Aug 26, 2018 15:30
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JohnCompany posted:Hey folks, look like I have a second round interview for an interesting in-house position coming up (not a typical corporate client but I'd not say more yet). For reference I'm a midlevel transactional associate at an NYC biglaw shop. Any tips on preparing for/what to expect in an interview for an in-house position, particularly one that's related to, but not directly in, my current practice area? I'll do a write up tomorrow - I interviewed for 4 in-house jobs, converted those into 2 offers and one where I was in the final 2 (of course the route I ended up taking was not in-house at all) - but the tl;dr is each position is different and the interview process is not nearly as standardized as big law.
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Aug 28, 2018 04:55
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JohnCompany posted:Hey folks, look like I have a second round interview for an interesting in-house position coming up (not a typical corporate client but I'd not say more yet). For reference I'm a midlevel transactional associate at an NYC biglaw shop. Any tips on preparing for/what to expect in an interview for an in-house position, particularly one that's related to, but not directly in, my current practice area? Here is the in-house job interview effort-post (hopefully, maybe I'll get lazy half way through and just give up), but the crux of the issue is that the interviews are essentially unique to the company you're interviewing rather than broader interview characteristics that are generally applicable across big-law. Depending on the size of the company, it may be useful to check out the interview tips that they have in the corporate thread. For smaller companies - it's entirely subjective and my experience has really been a lack of any sort of formal interview process and they'd rather see if you're fun and fit in because they figure most big law attorneys are competent. Personally - I interviewed for 4 in-house jobs - 1 was at a US subsidiary of a major European publicly traded company, the other 3 were at smaller PE backed portfolio companies. I received an offer from one of the PE portcos and the major corp. I'll walk through the process I went through at each. Major Corp I came across this job from a recruiter cold-call. The process was thoroughly impersonal and very dry. It began with a call from HR to to an initial screener. They asked about my background, interest in the job, level of experience and used this time to temper salary expectations (they noted that they were not big law and the pay, but also the benefits and work life balance were reflective of a European company). After about a week, they called back to have an in person interview with the team. I met with the AGC in charge of M&A (which was one person at the time) who I would be working directly underneath, the GC and one of the AGC's in charge of a different group. These interviews were basically big law callbacks, however, rather than whether you're a good bullshitter, they focused on my experience in drafting certain documents and accomplishing legal tasks. The nature of this company led to questions based on my familiarity with legal due diligence, NDAs, MSAs, EPC agreements, asset level M&A and equity M&A. They also focused on letting me know that it's not an "easy" job and if I wanted to leave big law for something "easy", it wasn't the place (note this is directly contradictory to what HR told me). I prodded a bit and found out that working hard meant occasionally being in the office until 7 and most of the attorneys lived in the suburbs, which is a dead giveaway of a chill job. A week later they called back for another set of interviews with some of the lower level attorneys and this was more about personality fit. They called in about a week saying I had an offer, but it would take a little bit to get it routed through Europe - the official offer came in about a month later. The keys here were making it through a generic HR screener, then demonstrating that I had broad based experience across a number of disciplines, had experience with a number of generic agreements and did not have an aversion to doing menial legal tasks (diligence and NDAs). So focus on questions related to your experience with various types of agreements, your willingness to eat poo poo, get paid poo poo and become part of the company culture which is very important to them. The pay was just too low here. PE Portfolio Company - Final 2 I came across this job by a referral from a Senior Associate at a firm I used to work at. They offered her the job outright because she had done the platform work for the PortCo, but is very on track to be a big law partner with 7 figures - so she stuck with it. This was an "interview" process in lightest sense of the word. I met the CFO and some of the other folks at a Gin bar and we got shitfaced and talked about good gins and life. At the end, they basically said all big law attorneys are the same so if you made it 4 years, it's all good, just wanted to see if you could hang - and then set up a meeting with the CEO. The CEO called me to a different bar, which they refer to as their second office (I think the CEO may have a drinking problem). At that bar, there was the CEO, HR person, front desk secretary and CFO....and another candidate for the position and the person who referred him (who happens to work at my current firm). I spent most of the time chatting up the HR person and front desk secretary and apparently that worked - they called and said I was in the final 2 people for the position and I'd be hearing from their PE sponsor. I got a call from their PE sponsor on Aug 26, 2017 asking if I could make it to New York for an interview that Monday - I said sure...except Hurricane Harvey hit that Saturday, deluged the city and I was stuck. In the meantime, another candidate who lived in a different city was able to make it up New York - he got the job. Womp Womp PE Portfolio Company Offer Based on the interview with the first PortCo, they referred me to another that was also looking for a GC. This interview process was largely the same as the other - I went to the second office with the CFO of PortCo 1 and CEO of PortCo 2 - we got drunk and just bullshitted. The questions were basically about whether or not I could save him money. He was tired of paying Latham for dumb bullshit all the time and asked how I would manage outside counsel for acquisitions and whether and how I'd handle day to day legal issues (corporate formalities, board issues, employment issues etc..). He liked me - so called me back to meet the CFO - he liked me so then I got an offer to join them, but also had an offer at a boutique firm that I decided to take instead and I'll be starting next week. I'm getting kind of lazy - so I don't really want to go into detail on the other PortCo - was basically a recruiter cold call - had a screener with the GC, then a meeting with the COO and didn't make it past that stage - couldn't really tell you why. Don't know if that was helpful - but if you have more targeted questions, feel free to ask.
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Aug 28, 2018 19:17
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Nice piece of fish posted:gently caress I hate trial days. And my job. Eat it Norway. Just leave at 5:30 then take your state mandated leave to your beautiful cabin and relax for a week. Jokes on you though - My cousin from Bergen took your free IVF then uprooted themselves to have that kid born in the US. USA - 1; Norway - 8000
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Aug 28, 2018 20:28
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Okay if I put this in the OP? Sure - let me think on it and give another sweep for edits that need to be made and I'll send you a PM - does that work?
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Aug 28, 2018 21:47
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Vox Nihili posted:Ugh, gin. I don't think I'd cut it at a clear liquor outfit. That's why you'll never make it specialist - you have to be able to talk bourbon with assholes, drink Japanese whiskey, be a total wine douche and be able to judge a man drinking Hendricks with certainty...basically this - but for being an elitist douche. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJIQm9qH-w Monkey 47 is from god's distillery to your mouth. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 22:51
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JohnCompany posted:Massive thank you Sab, super helpful! Now just to hope that what they're looking for is congruent with what I'm offering. You just have to tailor your narrative to make it congruent to what they're doing - if you send me a PM of your practice area and the type of company you're looking at - I can help brainstorm ideas - Cap Markets or M&A makes it easy, debt is harder and hopefully you're not like an ERISA specialist or something
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Aug 28, 2018 22:55
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As a last thing I'm doing before leaving the big-law - I'm putting together a don't be a financial moron presentation for the incoming first years - generally the advice is simple (regardless of your student loan burden, max out your 401(k), focus on paying down your student loan debts, don't be that guy who buys a 5-Series with your first paycheck). The thing I'm struggling with is how to advise them regarding an IRA - generally - all big law associates make too much to qualify for any of the tax benefits of a trad IRA and don't qualify for a Roth IRA unless they do a back-door Roth, which can be a little complicated. Generally - big law folks here - how do you deal with your retirement accounts. I never set up an IRA because I never wanted to foot fault a back-door Roth and never saw the benefit of a Traditional IRA - but wanted to get broader input before deciding whether to include IRA info in the presentation.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:51
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The death penalty should be administered to all collaborators in the current system of capital - note that the capitalists themselves can live, because they are animalistic creatures who cannot rise above their basal instincts of greed and lust. Those who have educated themselves and can exist outside of capital (e.g., lawyers, accountants, consultants) have made a conscious choice to exacerbate inequality and the theft of wealth from the working class for meager material rewards. tl;dr - guillotine all big law associates
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Sep 7, 2018 01:50
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Hoshi posted:Actuaries are okay though right? Sorry no - actuaries are often used as a tool of manipulation by the capital class to remove promised benefits from working people. Actuaries will be first, their assets will be used to fund pension plans.
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Sep 7, 2018 03:40
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I have unfortunate news - I have spent some time in D&D and it has come to my attention that all lawyers are responsible for the actions of all of their clients and also for every single other person at your firm, regardless of size. Going to suck for the Crim Law and Big Law folks.
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Sep 10, 2018 05:57
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Munin posted:So what I'm hearing is that law firms are all run by salespeople which sounds like a recipe for employment hell and organizational dysfunction. It's worse - they're run by lawyers. The megafirms truly need professional management - I was at a V10 firm for 4 years (until last week!), the place minted money, but needed a real CEO more than anything.
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Sep 15, 2018 03:08
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After 4 weeks, I can report that not big law is awesome.
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Oct 5, 2018 03:43
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Look - I know this has probably been posted 100 times, but it's new to me and it rules - so I thought I'd share. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTWdP5DMdsM
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Oct 23, 2018 04:31
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mastershakeman posted:Please tell me you mean only the new 4 star wars movies and aren't including the 70s-80s ones Nah - he's right.
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Oct 24, 2018 04:25
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I'm pretty excited about the new conservative arguments that undocumented immigrants are actually socvits and not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. They are going to make what they hate into what they all want to become
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Nov 1, 2018 13:55
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I saw a reddit post where a first year associate has billed 2000 hours already since January. Why do y'all put up with those hours? What a loving slacker. Prob not gonna make it through reviews tbh. Should be rounding 2200 at the end of October on your way to 2500-2600 for the year
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Nov 4, 2018 21:24
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mastershakeman posted:Yeah that was when fnln catfished him and demanded to see nudes of remedial+his wife Missy So like...why did they do that to him?
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Dec 8, 2018 02:54
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I know a number of people who did the Esquire thing to try and get fancy credit cards because they thought it would help them get approved. I imagine every time they pay for something, people think they are just giant d bags.
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Dec 9, 2018 16:31
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All issues related to the criminal justice system stem from the singular issue of systemic inequality in the country. Big law is the most immoral legal profession and those ensared and entrapped in betraying the nation by high salaries should be face trial for their crimes against the people. Prosecutors are fine since they will be ultimately responsible for the Latham trials of 2020
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Dec 16, 2018 14:45
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Bushido Brown posted:Going to try to actually post in this thread this year. Somehow made it to my fourth year in biglaw. Didn't plan on lasting this long. Big law is terrible and I wish you luck on getting out. It was as a 4th year that I made the active decision to leave and I was gone just after my 5th year began. It's not as difficult as you think and make sure to not jump at the first offer that comes your way because it's a way out. Big law puts you in a position to be in control of your future, so make sure your next step is somewhere where you want to go. Pay off your debts - if you're a 4th year, you make $255,000/year. Don't care what your debt load is - that's enough cash to put a significant dent in it.
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Jan 8, 2019 20:47
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Vox Nihili posted:OK but what year should I bail if I want to buy a home in the Bay Area? You should have bailed from big law the moment your realized your entire existence is dedicated to being on call 24/7 to grease the wheels of capitalism to exacerbate the transfer of wealth from working people to the capital class (quite literally if you're in any sort of PE transactional practice). Live your best life - quit.
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Jan 9, 2019 00:51
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Vox Nihili posted:I had a job doing union stuff but it turned out to mostly involve subrogating people's workers comp and injury settlement money and telling people that their dying spouse isn't covered under their plan/their kid's disability definitely isn't covered (alopecia treatment is OBVIOUSLY cosmetic), etc. Yeah I get that - crazy what happened to cat food costs, you really need $250k+ per year.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:10
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DuWay posted:Yeah this is true, but what if you're a biglaw associate and you're too junior (2nd year) to really look at any in-house positions for probably at least 1-1.5 more years? There is law that is not big law. There are exit opportunities outside of corporate in-house. What did you write your law school admissions essay about? Go do that poo poo after using big law to extremely aggressively pay off your student debt. The American dream and home ownership is a trap and bullshit anyway, so don't buy a home and then you don't need the big salary. The DNC needs voter protection lawyers. The ACLU in Texas needs attorneys to challenge whatever bullshit the state leg is going to poo poo out in the next 4 months. Indigent defendants need lawyers. Small cities need lawyers. Big cities need lawyers. Bernie Sanders needs campaign workers. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 03:45
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DuWay posted:I don't know if I'd ever go to another law firm (smaller or otherwise) unless I knew someone really well there that could vouch for it not being a hellhole. Too many of my friends have been screwed into small- or mid-sized law that was 80% of the hours of biglaw (and constantly on-call, which is the worst part) for 40-50% of the pay. Small firms are hit or miss, the key is that they do what you want to do - if you're in big law lit and you're at a smaller firm that still does commercial lit, you're going to still hate it because it's the same dumb bullshit. What do you want to do? You're a lucky dude in a good position by being in big law now. You can basically write your own ticket out. So figure out what it is you want to do (if in the law or outside of it). Before their passion and core beliefs were destroyed by corporate drudgery, most attorneys believed in something, wanted to do something, wanted to be something. You're still new enough that you can find that person again.
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Jan 9, 2019 04:31
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DuWay posted:You know, I completely forgot about government jobs being an option. Was focused on the trial stuff. I'll keep my eyes peeled (USAJobs is barren right now, it looks like and I can't say I know of any other place to look besides city/state level). Thanks! Check out your local and state governments. Even small suburban cities can provide great jobs and are generally more transactional than litigation.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:24
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Ani posted:I think this is all really overstated. The day to day of big law wasn't what I was talking about. It was the morally bankrupt nature of the work. Even if you get to work from home, you're still contributing to the ultimate destruction of society. The nature of the job also does not allow for compartmentalizing. Kirkland, Latham, Davis Polk, Cravath, Simpson, whatever V20 you want to choose all exist to serve corporate/capital interests to the detriment of regular people. The entire business model of Private Equity is to take pension funds, take a 2-5% management fee off the top, use the remaining money to buy other companies, strip the cash out, sell or liquidate it, and then get a piece of the take for yourself. If you think big law being a toxic leech on society is overstated, I would respectfully disagree. Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 20:58
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Vox Nihili posted:Serving capital/corporate interests isn't exclusively a "V20 biglaw" thing, it's pretty much a "private sector employment of almost any type" thing, particularly for lawyers. Private equity is morally no different than a bank or Google or Nestle or a sovereign wealth fund or any of the 10,000 legal forms that capital may assume. They're all rapacious by definition. You're right that serving capital interests is not exclusively a big law thing, but the difference is big law builds and enforces the structures that regular people have to exist in. V20 big law bears more responsibility for growing wealth inequality, destruction of organized labor and the increasing financialization of the economy than a mid level director at Caterpillar, Google, Nestle or whatever. We build the tax advantaged structures that allow for things like PE funds and MLPs to avoid taxation. When mortgage backed securities were being created, it was V20 lawyers doing the leg work to put them together (e.g., building the actual securities line by line). It's impossible to separate what high level corporate attorneys do from the larger macro level trends in the country and handwave it away by just being like "I'm basically the same thing as a Target manager so whatevs".
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Jan 10, 2019 19:17
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Kalman posted:We let juries decide on the validity of patents. From a few pages ago - but we largely let juries in Marshall Texas decide on the validity of patents.
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Jan 29, 2019 23:12
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I have reached what I assume will be the peak of my career. I met Tucker who represents Ayrshire. A legend in the practice This video can be posted once a year or so I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxmrvbMeKc Sab0921 fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 11, 2019 |
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Feb 11, 2019 04:14
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EwokEntourage posted:I wonder if Texas didn’t ask you all those questions or I just didn’t answer them fully They asked - but only required full disclosure if an arrest was involved. I had to go deep in old records to find an arrest for an MIP from when I was 19.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:08
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I got pretty sweet lawyer privilege this week. Had a traffic ticket, went in to see if I could just delay it for a day, the judge asked if I was a lawyer, I said yes - but not that kind, she said that wasn't the question. I said yes, got to skip a line of maybe 20 people and have a nice muni court judge call me counselor. Being a litigator seems pretty sweet. I should probably switch to practicing in traffic court.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:38
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