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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Itzena posted:

I still find it funny that Blizzard has been struggling with this whole "Put the WAR into Warcraft" thing for years decades now - working on trying to balance world pvp, battleground pvp, arena pvp, effect of gear and so on...and then Square just sort of went "Oh, here's the new PvP design and mode" and basically got casual, short-match MMO pvp more-or-less working (barring a few teething balance issues) as a side-note.

Mind you, Blizzard were on the right track a couple of expansions ago with normalising gear in pvp and so on...but the poopsockers whined so away it went.

To be fair, the format's one that's already in place and proven. What's impressive is that the jobs all feel special while not being too unbalanced (aside from Summoner/Paladin in Frontlines)

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

CuddleCryptid posted:

Add-ons have always been a hot topic. Some things like Decursive that just made the UI clearer were generally considered fine, but the prevalence of things like DeadlyBossMods that just walked you through encounters always felt really poo poo to me, especially since they were basically treated as mandatory.

"You may have to heal manually" is an ongoing joke in my FC 15 years and multiple games later, based on a totally serious warning given before a raid just after an update. It was an "elite" raiding guild that some of us had been allowed to come along and spot-fill, and until then we didn't know that their "skill" were all mods or degenerate strategies and the only thing they had that we didn't was people.

I mean, I'm all for degenerate strategies when it works (and doesn't take more effort than doing the actual intended strat), but when you think people are always noticing Living Bomb and getting clear and the answer is "no, we just stand in a line so they don't kill too many people when they blow up" it's a let-down.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

kedo posted:

I'm curious – for those of you in this thread who are still raiding in a modern MMO, what's the time commitment look like for you each week? I haven't raided since vanilla WoW (and then again in Classic because I was foolish), so my sample size is very low.

I do 90mins a week in FF14 for a group of 30-40 year olds who have found that time in the middle of real life and kids and all that higher priority stuff. We technically also do Sunday afternoons for folks who can make it but that's flaky as heck and rarely has an actual raid (working as intended, we expected that).

The main issue we run into is how Savage is gated. Each week you need to do all four in order, so with our time limits we could clear P1S and P2S and then wouldn't have time to start practicing P3S. That started when those gates got removed... 6 weeks ago? Everything blurs together. Anyway, we're not blasting through anything but we have fun, and next tier we're already talking about how to adjust when we hit similar limits, probably get someone earlier in the week to "steal" a lockout from other folks, the annoying thing will just be when to pivot. And that's more a communication issue rather than different goals, people's availability to even think about FF14 during the rest of the week varies and it's not something you can push for 5 minutes before things start.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Xun posted:

If you're willing to put in a bit of time waiting in PF, you can try to get a taxi/skip to the fight that you're currently on. Just have someone who has cleared (or just reached it) for the week join and once you get a full group that person can queue everyone into p3s. Then everyone just leaves immediately after loading in with the ability to queue their groups into p3s. You'd give up the loot from the fights that you skip for the week though.

I was skipping people to p4s for awhile on chaos and other people started doing that too after a week or two. I like to think I made a difference :kiddo:

Yeah but we were crud at coordinating and by the time we were getting on top of "no Bob, we don't need to run P1S again so you can get a ring for that fourth job you don't actually run" the lockout was removed.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Rexicon1 posted:

Anyone who says that group finder is bad is a loving sicko gently caress and needs reeducation camp

And yet you're the one advocating for brainwashing.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Unhappy Meal posted:

Why was Amazon's Lord of the Rings MMO cancelled? Turns out making an MMO is very complicated.

"Managing licensing rights when the company you're negotiating with gets bought mid-negotiation" translates into "making an MMO" somehow

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Cutedge posted:

I mean why do you need block chain to make anything work.

You don't, blockchain is a solution in search of a problem.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Suppose I went back to Lost Ark now, having done the story stuff and stopped when it looked to just be a grind. Is there a way to get up to the gear level of my friends to do stuff with them or will I always be X months behind on the treadmill unless they stop and wait for me?

FF14's style of "current endgame is X tier, X-1 tier is basically free so you can hop in once you finish the MSQ" has spoiled me.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

It's been ages since I played either but the main contrast I recall between GW2 and SW:TOR's jumping puzzles (because I was playing them at the same time) is that GW@ had awareness of how the character moved. Some were jank, but they were usually one jump-length away. The Old Republic had some really nice platforming that bore absolutely no relation to the Castlevania jumps your character was locked into.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

I finally remembered I wanted to remove my physical security key from my SWTOR account because it's 10 years old and the battery's kaput. Looks like I have 11,000 Cartel Coins since I last played in 2015.

...I think this might be enough to get me to poke my nose back in. Having those coins keep piling up for inactive players is actually clever if they did it on purpose. And having the market only visible in-game so I need to install to find out what those would be good for.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Last King posted:

new trailer for that dune mmo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n82_jeAj3WA

apparently we're all sleepers that are awakening. the books / movie had just one so this'll be interesting to see thousands of sleepers all muad'dibing around....

"I'm the chosen one! So's my wife!"

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Abroham Lincoln posted:

Will the Dune game be brave enough to let me hang dong

It's called wormsign. Learn the lingo.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Third World Reagan posted:

same

just hit the preferred player level 70 wall though

Is there a way past "these expansions are only if you're subbed" if you have a massive pile of Cartel Coins? Haven't gotten around to poking my nose in to check yet.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Pryce posted:

So this is weird (and I don’t like it), but most FFXIV dungeons are intentionally designed this way. There’s always a locked door a couple pulls in so the idea is that you can pull two or three groups to the next “door”, kill them all, then the door opens and you move on.

I think some of the earlier dungeons don’t actually have the “locked door” design so you can pull all the way to a boss, but everything post-ARR seems to be specifically built to support playing that way. I’m not a fan but at least it feels slightly better knowing that it’s not entirely some massive speed run strat.

ARR doesn't have this at all, really. They start doing it in Heavensward and then Stormblood on they settle into the "two pulls and a wall to make you kill them" formula (with a couple of odd pulls here or there that don't). I think it was a matter of seeing how players wanted to do things and designing to that instead of trying to force otherwise, and knowing it's going to be two pulls gives them something they can balance around. ARR is INCREDIBLY lethal for wall-pulling because there's so many guys and nobody has the tools they do later, you really need to know your limits.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

I used to do a MUD back in high school but these days when I hear the term all that comes to mind is the pharmabro who kept buying Dragonrealms accounts to molest other players, then do it again after he got banned.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Jimlit posted:

The main issue with BDO is how most of it's fun mechanics are abandoned / aren't viable at all for meaningful character progression (IE: a lot of life skills, sailing, housing etc...). Features that get the most dev hours like world bosses, arena stuff and territory control (PVP in general) are actively terrible. I quit BDO after a year of almost addict levels of playing after my first territory war battle. It's like it was developed in a vaccum with no understanding that nobody wants to play dynasty warriors if every character is lubu and its running at 5 fps in PS1 mode.

Is this another Wildstar situation where the devs were actively hostile to the parts of their game they accidentally got right, or not quite that bad?

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

duddits posted:

Anybody ever play Dragonrealms? Decent MUD that's been going at least 25+ years. It manages to suck me back in once in a while, but is a super high learning curve and quite a grind.

Haven't played it but I used to know a few mods.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Pryce posted:

Any time a game markets "MADE IN UNREAL!!!!" it saves me a ton of time knowing it'll flop immediately at launch. Which engine you use is not a helpful bullet point for players.

:ohdear: for Yakuza, they just moved to that engine.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

I checked out of WoW's story when the Emerald Nightmare they'd been teasing and "trying to get right" for ages happened in a book and we got "it was all taken care of; this guy's back, this guy's dead, this guy's a bad guy now, go fight Ragnaros". That place was cool, but still felt cheated. I think that might have actually been my last thing before leaving the game entirely, I know I didn't pick up Pandaria.

Yes, I know they apparently went back and did it (again? First time was only a setback?) in-game, too late.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

A hotdog is an MMO.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Cool Dad posted:

Mine sure is

Well, they call it that but it's mostly a solo game.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Pryce posted:

I mean for all the fair complaints about high-end raiding, FFXIV seems to have this kind of thing consistently present throughout its community since launch. Last week, I tried to recruit some help running through the original raids (which aren't in the random group finder) so I could see the story, and it immediately filled up with people willing to help even though they'd have to sit around doing mostly nothing for upwards of an hour while I watched numerous cutscenes. There are tons of stories of that happening throughout 14, even if it's not necessarily the same group of people as the hardcore raiders.

I am continually shocked regularly at how friendly (on average) people in the game are, and how tolerant they are of letting you enjoy story, or do something boring, and how little people expect in return other than seeing more people in their community have a good time. It's not the 'same' as the oldschool MMO social interactions, but there absolutely is a contingent of 'helping for the sake of helping' or 'paying it forward' that remains in this game.

I've tried to figure out why it mostly works in FF14 and my best guess is that the system of leveling other jobs and doing roulettes is constantly rubbing the experienced players against the newbies or encouraging them to try out new roles and become newbies anew. When a tank forgets their stance it's not "get a clue noob" it's "yeah we've all done that," when someone's missing mechanics their first time in a dungeon you've run with so many first-timers you're used to seeing it. I may not have individual players I particularly notice, but the sense of community is pretty big compared to games where you could draw a box around people a few levels away and you're not going to interact with anyone else. There are so many "get to max level, never look at that stuff again" games.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

kedo posted:

Looking forward to years of hype followed by inevitable disappointment!

They're experienced developers, so I'm sure they'll be able to achieve that.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

I think it depends on whether Stats Mattering means "it's possible to put something together that works better" or "it's possible to put something together that doesn't work". FF14 tries hard to avoid the second, and while it's possible to do the first it's usually not something you're going to notice unless you pull out a dps meter or are intentionally hitting extremes. "Get enough skill speed that you can fit another use of this into the buff window" might be a better effect, but you're never going to feel that during play.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Fajita Queen posted:

Posting an innocuous screenshot of the game asking for help with something only for a wily poster to identify some random background doodad as coming from the Massive Throbbing Schlongs mod and shaming me for all eternity

As they should, it was coded by a gorilla. Engorged Sleeper does everything that one does with twice the fidelity and half the CPU overhead.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Third World Reagan posted:

makes slight criticism of FFXIV

weirdos come out of the wood works to defend their game

"If your MMO has a main story or plot or whatever I'm following you've hosed up making an MMO in my book."

"Personally I didn't mind it."

"Wow, look at these FFXIV weirdos."

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Ibram Gaunt posted:

The corrupted crystals poo poo for Garuda was way worse than the Titan stuff imo. I dunno why it gets less poo poo.

Because Pharos Sirius is a neat dungeon and a hilariously dark punchline to some 1.0 plot. The rest of that runaround can f off.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Did they reduce BGM volume? I usually have it maxed out to hear clearly above the game sound effects and it feels a lot more difficult to pick out.

Edit: wrong thread

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Ehud posted:

I just stopped playing WoW:SOD because of guild drama and time requirements to keep up with raiding. I'm almost 40 and the thought of being in discord with people arguing about loot makes me want to jump out a window.

That's why my FF14 raid group is a bunch of casual players who struggle to find 90 minutes a week we're all available. I'd rather wipe with these chucklefucks than succeed with competent strangers. Most of the time, anyway. Sometimes it gets frustrating and I need to remind myself I actually like these people.

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