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Seltzer posted:I was in tenpai like 4 times in one set and didn't win one round. gently caress. I had like four perfect pinfu waits go to draws and then I won two straight furiten riichi declarations. Mahjong. dragon enthusiast posted:the real power is being able to combine fan, even a simple hand like riichi tsumo pinfu tanyao dora is worth a mangan. dragons are colors in alphabetical order starting with green, winds is clockwise on a compass face Stelas posted:Hell yeah, sign me up. I'm back on Tenhou nowadays but it's gotten markedly harder to compete - I assume that there's slightly less players and the ones who are sticking around are flat-out better at the game. there's a lot more english-language strategy literature these days, so if you're playing in western prime hours, the western players are much less likely to be really bad at the game. by the way, for the OP, this is almost an essential link: Why won't the computer let me declare mahjong? http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/yaku/yaku.htm Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 19:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Are there any good clients + AI for non-riichi variants? Four Winds is ancient (though still supported for modern OS compatibility) but has like literally every variant on it and an impossible amount of rule customization. I think the only thing it doesn't support out of box is American/NMJL style, probably because the contents of the NMJL cards is copyrighted. https://www.4windsmj.com/ it also supports rarely-seen features like allowing you to make bad declarations and getting penalized (if you need to practice stuff like complex waits for real-life play). Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 19:41
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proper/modern chinese mahjong has even more hands to learn than riichi, honestly the yaku list isn't that hard once you realize that a lot of them are upgraded versions or "opposite" versions of other yaku like IIRC "proper" chinese is: must have 8 points from a combination of like a hundred hand types, while riichi is just "one yaku" where riichi and closed tsumo with any valid hand structure always count if you have nothing else i think the simplest form of mahjong that people actually play is "old hong kong mahjong" (chinese classical is also simple but nobody actually plays it) Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 21:21
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american mahjong is also complex and primarily exists to give Jewish grandmothers an extremely complicated ruleset to argue with each other about also it's the one where you literally have to buy a card every year to get the valid hands e) really, the hardest part of Japanese/riichi to learn is the weird-rear end scoring system, and even that's OK to just fudge if you only plan to play online or on the computer. also, furiten is kind of a pain to learn, though you get the hang of it after a week of play or so. there are other weird rule exceptions but a lot of these apply to like 0.01% of game situations. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 30, 2018 |
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Sep 30, 2018 21:29
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This is probably my favorite cheat sheet for yaku btw, I particularly like the dots to show which ones are the most common. My only real problem is the non-standard english terms for them , eg "three-color chi" instead of "mixed triple chow" but the Japanese terms should be learned anyway. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1Vjevtlm-y2d2MxTmxWOEhWaU0/view
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Sep 30, 2018 21:58
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playing in real life is a completely different game almost, you have to be very careful about stuff like waits on flush hands because it's really, really easy to get into furiten, or even calling empty riichi on those without realizing it.
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Oct 2, 2018 17:45
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  I mean it's computer mahjong so who cares and I really made a mistake by calling riichi (that's a baiman minimum for sanankou + toitoi + dora 4 which you should never ever call riichi on) but still, come on, beaten by a double tanki wait where the 5s is unwinnable and one 2s is already on the board Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Oct 9, 2018 |
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Oct 9, 2018 15:50
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dragon enthusiast posted:is that a switch Yeah its Simple Mahjong Online, you need to get it off the Japanese eshop Also it's hard to find actual online play outside of Japanese peak hours but the interface is great if you can get around the Japanese
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Oct 9, 2018 16:16
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bump etc If you can get past the internet humor this is a good yaku guide for beginners, (it skips the stupid rare ones which you shouldn't be worrying about when you're learning anyway). https://osamuko.com/top-10-hands-you-should-re-memorize-if-you-ever-lose-your-memory/ (and like this page says, never, ever go for chanta. probably the worst yaku in the game when you compare its value and the difficulty in putting it together). Cessna posted:What's the difference between "riichi" and typical Hong Kong Mahjong? Riichi has generally fewer yaku/patterns than HK/MCR mahjong, and has a scoring system that values closed hands more. It also has orderly discards, rules against claiming a win on a prior discard, and generally prioritizes defensive/folding play more than HK/MCR.
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Feb 14, 2019 15:32
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speaking of crazy rare yaku, *nearly* got ryanpeikou but more or less had to accept tsumo haneman 
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Feb 14, 2019 15:36
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re: that yaku frequency list, i'm pretty sure ryanpeikou and sankantsu (and *maybe* sanshokou doukou) are actually rarer than some yakumen. riichi scoring is not the most balanced thing in the world tenhou has bakaze sha (yakuhai, west round wind) down there too but that's a silly one. in tenhou, west round is the sudden death round that happens if nobody has 30k points at the end of south4, which is rare. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 15:54
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old posts but regarding furiten questions one rule of thumb to always remember: your hand is furiten, not a tile. if you can not call ron on a tile due to furiten, you can not call ron on any tile. the most common way this happens is if you have something like a final wait of 23p with 1p in the discard pile, and therefore can't call 4p ron. second rule of thumb: you can always still win by tsumo when furiten (with the obvious caveat that you still need to have a yaku). third rule of thumb: furiten applies to tiles which could complete a hand, as in give you a valid complete structure of four sets and a pair. it does not matter if you couldn't declare ron on that tile anyway because you have zero yaku. (the example case this applies to is if you have, say, 78p on a hand where your only non-riichi yaku is tanyao. you can't win on 9p because that violates tanyao, but if you draw and have to discard 9p, too bad, you're furiten. Pierzak posted:Am I in tenpai if I'm waiting for tiles that are demonstrably impossible to get, e.g. all 4 copies of my wait are in others' discards? The general rule is called "shape tenpai", but in general, yes- basically, you can discount all your opponents discards/your discards/dora indicator when declaring tenpai. In most rulesets, you can not wait on a "fifth tile" in your hand. Basically if you have a declared kan of 7777p and a final wait of 89p, you aren't tenpai because all four winning tiles are already used up in your hand. IRL, you would be chombo if you declared riichi on this. Note that this is tenpai on Tenhou, which is generally thought to be a bug. Also: regarding furiten riichi: there are a few places where you might want to do this- one of the most common ones is if your wait is something that would be extremely unlikely to come out as ron anyway- for instance, if you are furiten, and your final wait is the dora tile, nobody is ever going to discard the dora tile late anyway, so you may as well call riichi for the extra han and hope for a self-draw. (in general, this is also one of the exceptions to declaring riichi with a low-scoring bad wait- if you have no chance to win by ron anyway, you might as well declare and go for the han) there are also rarer cases where the game situation would require you to pass a winning tile because you have multiple winning tiles, one of which will score much more than the other, and you need the points. Pierzak posted:ed: forgot one. If akadoras are in play and dora indicator is say, 4pin, does a 5pin count as double dora - once for the indicator tile, once for the akadora? old post but the answer is yes. You'd add one dora for the akadora, so if dora is 5p, and you have akadora 5p in you rhand, you get two han. This is an added 1han, so if dora is double 5p (two 4p dora indicators), a 5p akadora is worth 3han, not 4han. ' Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 16:54
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don't think ive ever bullshitted a win harder than this last place during sudden death west1, just looking for points, was not expecting tsumo on chun to get the 40/3 and first place
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Apr 26, 2019 18:49
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nrook posted:Wait, should I not be declaring riichi with bad hands and bad waits? I get why you wouldn't want to call riichi with like a 13 wait where you're also hoping to get a 4 and improve your wait. But if it's something like 12 or a pair wait, and I doubt I'll fold, I've just been throwing it out there. don't declare riichi with *both* a cheap hand and a bad wait is the rule of thumb. one exception is a "really bad" wait like the final terminal/honor where someone might toss it as a relatively safe tile if you riichi. example is if your final wait was a single red dragon and two red dragons are on the board already, so you might as well call riichi under the justification that red dragon would look like a fairly safe discard if you did
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Apr 26, 2019 20:04
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Imo it's defensible if you're hell waiting on a terminal or honor. the whole thing about riichi is that it generally reduces your chance of winning because your opponents will start to go defensive, but if your winning tile looks safe that doesn't apply. once safety tiles (in your discards) are gone, a terminal/honor which has already been played is a very common defensive discard e) for a similar reason you can declare riichi if your only winning tile is something that would be unlikely to be discarded if you stayed dama anyway, like a middle suit dora. because it's unlikely to win by dama Ron anyway, declaring. Riichi isn't actually reducing your winning chances that much, so you may as well riichi for the points and hope for tsumo Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 20:30
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ayy lmao gotten this before but first time in a competitive game (i.e. not against bots)
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May 1, 2019 16:44
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Congratulations to this guy for making maybe the worst discard I've seen in my life
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May 11, 2019 16:59
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well the main problem is really the bizarre standard of play. between the US/EU new players and the Chinese players used to Chinese mahjong where there's no downside to calling quads, the level of play is kind of silly compared to other online services
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May 14, 2019 22:52
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the classic "riichi on a confirmed sanbaiman" (justification was that my only winning tile was dora and it was an obvious flush hand, so it had zero chance to win on dama ron, so gently caress it, might as well go for the off chance of a uradora match/ippatsu tsumo and kazoe)
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May 27, 2019 15:13
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dirby posted:I think I could get into this game, although learning all the terminology/special cases seems intimidating even with knowing a lot of the basic words from Japanese. Like ツモ is not a problem, but learning all the yakubaimangan phrases or whatever might take some time. this is a decent glossary sorted by usage category http://arcturus.su/wiki/List_of_terminology_by_usage_category
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Jun 2, 2019 04:33
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dragon enthusiast posted:I believe the odds of thirteen orphans happening only start going in your favor with 11 tiles in the starting hand, so it's way too late for that. 3 of your lone tiles are safe against riichi so I'd probably discard those first, plus terminals and non-yaku honors are generally pretty safe discards. You can call for honor tiles as they appear, and depending on how the wind blows can try to also go for stuff like All Triplets / All Terminal+Honor Melds / Half Flush / Little Three Dragons. the general rule is 9, call for the abortive draw, 10 go if you're trailing badly, 11, go for it
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Jun 3, 2019 05:31
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Roland Jones posted:I recently started playing FFXIV again, after not playing since 2013 or so I think, and one of the additions in the years since then was Mahjong in a minigame area thing. I've been playing it a lot lately and am enjoying it a lot, and have started winning against other players in the last few days. Found this thread again last night and have started reading the book linked a few posts ago, so thanks for that. This is absolutely toitoi with shots at improving with small dragons/big dragons yakuman, and if that doesn't pan out, honitsu (half flush). What you shouldn't do is hold on to those pairs and not call for sets. If this was earlier you'd have more of a shot at holding on to the terminals for honroutou (also all honors is a much crazier hand than kokushi, which is one of the most common limit hands lol) Basically if you ever have four+ pairs during the first discard row you are either going toitoi (all sets) or chiitoi (seven pairs)*. Go for toitoi if: a) you will have two han guaranteed in the hand other than toitoi (5200 non-dealer) AND b) at least three of your four pairs are honors, terminals, or 2/8 tiles (which are much more likely to come out for calls) Go for chiitoi if a) you will have tanyao, or your pairs are mostly simples which are hard to call for pon b) any of your pairs are dead-draws (pair with two other tiles visible, meaning none are left in the wall) c) you will have one or no other han guaranteed if you go toitoi *the exception is cases where your hand might develop faster as a "normal" hand, this usually involves connected pairs, such as 12233444s or something Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 14:24
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just for reference, here's part of the translated list of limit hands this month, and you might notice a theme (shoutouts to the guy on the top who got ryuuiisou though) http://tenhou.net/3/?log=2019060321gm-0089-0000-806755f6&tw=3&ts=1
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Jun 3, 2019 14:40
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Sorry for the double post but this is a really useful chart for push/fold decisions in games with red dora (this is based off public tenhou statistics) The general rule for pushing is- 1) good wait at half the value of the expected opponent value, or 2) bad wait at equal value to opponent value, subject to judgment calls based on positioning/ability to defend (a shorthand is good wait 4500/3000 is push against dealer/nondealer, and bad wait 7700+ otherwise. if you badly need points or you have absolutely no ability to defend your hand you can get away with e.g. bad wait 6400 or something. this is more or less why you should push virtually any bad-wait dealer mangan even if someone is showing a non-dealer mangan on the table with open calls) (generally "good wait" means six tiles, e.g. waiting on 2/5 with at least six total remaining in the wall, though 5 remaining probably doesn't constitute a "bad" wait) Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 16:25
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I don't know the exact probabilities but it's probably a case of needing one tile each (plus one more for a pair) of 13 types (14/52 available) versus needing four triplets and a pair of 7 types (14/28 available). Of course that isn't perfect because Kokushi has a specific hand shape needed. (Chinroutou, all-terminals is even rarer, needing four triplets and a pair of six types, meaning you need 14 of 24 tiles available) I think another factor is that if you get a Kokushi deal, you're virtually always going to go for it, whereas a deal that has an outside chance for All Honors will probably happily get turned into Toitoi Honitsu yakuhai 3 or something. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 19:07
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 dora 4 suji trap riichi, time for my brilliant comeback 
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Oct 14, 2019 15:25
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I need to find the cheat sheet which lists the yaku by category and highlighted the common ones. Also other than yakumen, the only yaku that theoretically "could" be completed open but aren't allowed are iipeikou and ryanpeikou, which is a good rule of thumb to remember. re: calling, it's OK to not call for now except for obvious cases like having an honor pair and a pair of dora, but eventually you'll have to start learning when to do it to speed up your hand. there's an old joke that the progression from beginner to expert is like, "call even without confirmed yaku" (aka "yaku fishing") -> "call only honors" -> "never call" -> "call even without confirmed yaku This is a good set of articles about calling judgment https://mahjong.guide/2017/07/22/puyos-guide-to-calling-tiles-part-1/ quote:The below are my personal cutoffs: Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 16:22
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:Is it considered poor form for the last place player to end a match with a weak hand that doesn't even get them out of fourth while the other players still had something to fight over? i'd only really consider it a dick move if you rushed it with an open hand tbh (which might actually get you suspected of collusion)
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Jun 17, 2020 14:14
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mahjong quiz: spot the player going for kokushi 
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Jun 19, 2020 06:40
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EightFlyingCars posted:Farley you son of a bitch karaten riichi for flow (karaten riichi actually isn't a terrible idea as dealer because people will frequently fold against any dealer riichi lol)
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Jun 19, 2020 06:45
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Generally manual fu calculation matters for a) hands with honor/terminal ankou or multiple simple ankou, and b) any hands with kan. Otherwise, pinfu tsumo is 20, most open hands are 30, toitoi is usually 40, and closed hands are usually 30/40 tusmo/ronMegaZeroX posted:When you hit 4 Han, it is rare for fu to even matter since getting 20 fu is really hard (even pinfu hands, despite the name, are usually 22 fu and thus scored as 30 fu) and 30 fu almost puts you at mangan territory. The main time it should really be part of your calculations is for a 3 Han hand. Open hands with a pinfu shape are 30 (the explanation isn't worthwhile, it's just that open hands are considered to be 30 minimum) and tsumo pinfu is always 20. You don't get the 2 fu bonus for closed tsumo for pinfu, it's a special case. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 19:30
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hopefully this works, there always needs to be more strategy literature in english and this is one of the best one's I've read since the original RB1 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/584898975446859796/720982540948734002/Gentaros_tile_efficiency_course.pdf
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Jun 24, 2020 17:37
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headbump is even more wack. nobody likes headbump!!!
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Jul 1, 2020 16:59
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F E) I would have laughed so hard if someone had managed to pull a 4 kan abort there
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Jul 9, 2020 15:51
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Irony Be My Shield posted:How... how could you look at that calls and think it's OK to discard a wind tile there?? looking at the hand, he was last place and tenpai with a shitload of dora, and it's game over if north wins anyway. honestly not really a wrong decision.
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Jul 9, 2020 16:30
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Tbh with a dual honor shanpon wait I might riichi just because those tiles are likely to be considered relatively safe Dama is probably fine though
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Jul 12, 2020 04:24
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the "general" rule for chiitoi/toitoi is that if you're going for toitoi, you a) better have value in your hand other than toitoi, and b) your pairs should be reasonably likely to drop. Remember that one of the big weaknesses of toitoi is that- especially if you call terminals or honors, it can frequently leave you in a poor defensive position against tenpai- at a mangan level toitoi hand, this isn't an issue because you're pushing anyway, but having to push a 2 han hand against dealer riichi is Bad. Bad Toitoi Pushes is right up there with bad yakuahi-nomi hands as far as beginner traps go. quote:Something I've been doing but kind of feel like a dick for, when I'm dealer and behind I tend to go for faster/simpler hands, even if they're only like 1k-2k points, so I can chain dealer rounds and try to catch back up. Given the way the rules work this seems like it's intended or expected, but it still feels kind of slimy. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 17:05
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Roland Jones posted:
If you've got a dead dora honor pair, I'd probably keep it. First off, if it's a dead honor pair, it's two guaranteed safeties against a tenpai (excepting kokushi) , and if all four dora are visible, it's less likely for an opponent to have a very valuable hand. (be careful if only one other dora has been dropped- riichi on a dora pair wait is a legitimate move, especially on a terminal/honor dora) In any case a dead honor pair is likely to be the "worst pair" in your hand and you should probably be keeping it anyway- generally when you have too many pairs (3+, 4 if you aren't going for chiitoi or toitoi) you should be discarding the pair that leaves the best remaining block- ie dropping the extra 2s from 223s. (it's OK to toss a honor pair if it's early and you've got good shots at tanyao/pinfu otherwise, though). Just be careful about dropping the "pair" from something like 3445p - in this case, you should consider this two blocks of 34p and 45p-, and not as a "pair". I wouldn't drop 4p here unless it guarantees you a good wait tenpai, because overlapping blocks are slightly worse than non-overlapping ones. Something like 4556p (or 2334s, 6778m etc) is a very, very strong shape, as not only can it accept 3/4/6/7 but two of those draws give you good chance ippeiko- considering this as just 456p + isolated 5p is a common beginner mistake. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 17:31
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generally, against a riichi, or a tenpai that's confirmed to be a good value, you should be folding unless you're also decent-value (3 han) tenpai, or are 1-away with good value AND good waits/1-away with a guaranteed mangan+/have no ability to defend anyway/are losing badly and need to push every hand. You can assume tenpai with 3 calls, or 2 calls in the last discard row. also re: saving safeties: Generally don't do this if you're new. The loss of efficiency is significant *especially* if you're new and are likely to make efficiency mistakes anyway. If your hand is still horrific at the end of the first row (i.e. you've been tsumogiring nothing but honors and your awful initial deal hasn't developed at all), you can start to think about this because at that point you're very unlikely to win the hand, but the downsides are significant. "Discarding dangerous tiles early" is something people try to do and it's very difficult to do this well until you're much more experienced. There are obvious exceptions (i.e. discarding east first in east round as non-dealer to lower the possibility of a double-east call, especially when you don't need yakuhai, or discarding an early dora terminal/honor that you're very unlikely to be able to use) but I'd limit this for now as it can cause you to either make efficiency mistakes, or just end up dealing in a lot, especially to open hands/damaten in row 3 On a similar note, limit your "half folding" until you're more experienced. Either push or fold- effectively "half folding" is really really tough, even for experienced players. I see a lot of low-value calls in your screenshot too. Remember that the problem with calls isn't just that you lower your hand value, it's that you get less ability to defend- *especially* if you pon honors/terminals. In a flat score situation I generally won't open for less than 3 han unless it's a very good wait 2-han hand, and when you're losing, you want value. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Aug 19, 2020 |
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Aug 19, 2020 17:45
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it's basically all paraphrased from these articles which (along with RB1) are really really good for "begintermediate" players who know the rules but are having trouble winning. *especially* read the "fundamentals" articles and the "guide to calling" articles and there's always more to practice with tile efficiency. https://mahjong.guide/list-of-articles/
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Aug 19, 2020 18:05
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