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Xae
Jan 19, 2005

GOP congressman, who once lamented not being able to call women 'sluts,' loses to a woman.

My Twitter Account posted:

They're not going to happen, Pelosi has already indicated she's not interested.

They're going to continue to say "there is no point in investigations" right up until they say "This is a very serious accusation that warrants a full and thorough investigation". They're trying to prevent the Republicans from framing any investigations as witch hunts by downplaying their interest in them.

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Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Liquid Communism posted:

No. You use the Senate to gerrymander the House districts, and thus depress voter turnout by making it look like nothing matters.

I should have been more clear, sorry.

The US Senate doesn't draw Congressional lines either.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Al Borland Corpse posted:

Well it's not like we have crops rotting in the field and plants unable to fulfill orders due to tariffs.

Wait, we DO have that?

Yup, drove past a poo poo load of soy and corn being left to rot in fields last night. We've had several frosts and the crop is useless at this point.

It wasn't even plowed under which means they plan on leaving the land fallow next year.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Your Taint posted:

Which is true. But there has never been a cult of personality around any president in this country's history. We've been seeing all the norms going out the window for the last 2 years. We're in uncharted territory here, politically.

Jackson, Roosevelt, Kennedy.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Nemo Somen posted:

So I want to make sure I have the proper takes from last night.

The bad:
  • Regaining the Senate in 2020 seems like it’ll be difficult.
  • Losing a number of high profile races
  • Big divide between Senate and House, and Senate is more meaningful

The Good:
  • Florida regained a lot of voters
  • Large Dem support (+7%)
  • Support will likely to grow due to lack of outlet.
  • Massive turnout for a midterm; will hopefully apply to a presidential election
  • Good results for progressive dems, may lead Dems to stop trying to pursue moderate conservatives
  • Can now stop parts of conservative legislative agenda
  • Some traditionally conservative places went for Dems
  • Investigations are now available

Are there any notable takeaways that I'm missing?

Dems picked up a couple of state houses and a half dozen or so governors, which should help limit or reverse gerrmandering in those areas.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

So... the new head of the committee that could investigate Trump's taxes and financial dealings is Maxine Waters.


Well, ain't that just a shame.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

theCalamity posted:

It already happens to her despite her saying that. It’s useless :decorum: she would’ve been better off not saying anything

Has it occurred to you that you might not be the only audience she is talking to at any given time?

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

CommieGIR posted:

It merited enough for the Emporer to personally mention the nuclear weapons in his speech to the people.

Yeah, their impact has been overhyped, but it certainly played a role.

Worth noting the firebombings killed more.

Pre-nukes the Japanese plan was to reach some sort of negotiated surrender while they bleed out the Allies in a protracted, bloody home islands defense. The Japanese High Command knew after Midway is was hosed. The rest of the war was them hoping to score a quick victory to two and then get a negotiated peace.

As Lightning Knight said, Japan knew the USSR was going to dogpile them after the war in Europe ended. Their defensive plans assumed this. So the Soviets entering the war had no part in the sudden change.

The plan of bloody street to street fighting doesn't work when the enemy can reduce a city to cinders in a split second. They realized their previous strategy wasn't going to work and surrendered, unconditionally.

The demand for unconditional surrender is a movie cliche at this point, but in 1945 it was unproved, untested and controversial. Since the conception of the Great Powers almost all wars had been fought to a conditional surrender. Plenty of people assumed that the call for unconditional surrender was bluster and aimed at getting a more favorable negotiated surrender.

A better question is: "If the US had offered Japan terms similar to what the Allies ended up giving them, would they have surrendered sooner?".

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Wylie posted:

Oh God I can hear this meeting.

"You have X number of likes, good, good. But we need to see more active engagement with our brand. I need you to get our replies number up before end of year."

Designated social media millennial: "I got you fam"

Dear God, they've figured out how to make money from OUTRAGED millenials.

Soon, they'll be unstoppable.


Or out of business. You can never tell.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

osker posted:

This dude gets it. There have been innumerable variations on short changing the rights of people by saying that group X doesn't deserve competent legal representation. Sacco and Vanzetti for anarchists, Gitmo for terrorists etc etc etc. We also live on the same internet as DSauza if you need an example of a poo poo heel who loves to misclassify and misconstrue for personal gain.

There is no possible way that decreeing that certain types of people don't have rights could ever backfire.


Rite?

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Mendrian posted:

Yeah exactly.

All Americans have a right to free speech; they don't all have a right to have their book published by Harper Collins.

This is the exact same justification used during the Red Scares.


Don't kid yourselves. If there is a crackdown on extremist speech it will end up being directed at leftists as well.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Mendrian posted:

Would you care to be more specific?

Everyone has a right to act, just not in Hollywood Movies if you're a communist or someone claims you are.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Mendrian posted:

The difference is that communist boogiemen are not currently out to curtail the rights of others.

People are allowed to decline to help or serve Nazis in a private capacity. This is the difficulty with Nazism in a liberal society in general; unlike other groups, to do otherwise is to embolden them.

Also for what it's worth, our society already does refuse to employ openly Nazi assholes. We've seen a number of companies fire their employees over racist Facebook memes (though probably not nearly enough).

Also also, 'this is just like the Red Scare, and everybody agrees the Red Scare was bad!' is bad appeal. Address the issue as it appears today, or not at all.

We're in the middle of a thread where leftists are explaining why certain types of people should have their rights curtailed.

So yes, communists absolutely did, and still do, advocate for curtailing certain types of rights. Or they deny that those rights should exist in the first place.

You couldn't make a more disingenuous and ignorant argument if you tried.

Its funny to watch this clusterfuck because it is a microcosm of why leftists states inevitably end up as police states. The State declares that "certain" people don't have rights and that list of people keeps growing until no one has any rights.

Rights either apply to everyone or no one.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Mendrian posted:

Okay.

So which rights, specifically, are thread leftists asking to curtail?

* Nobody is advocating for Randazza to not have a lawyer, they're just saying that accepting him as a client carries certain connotations.
* Despite people crawling out of the woodwork to defend free speech the only thing people are advocating for is the enforcement of existing hate speech law.

I see a lot of dancing around the issues but that's all I'm seeing? Which is actually the status quo?
Everyone has the right to a "zealous" defense. Not the bare minimum to not get censured. This is because otherwise you end up with situation like police states have where the defense lawyer does nothing to assist the defendant. Because if he does try and defend the person he'll end up strung up along side him.

Lightning Knight posted:

He deserves legal representation in the form of a court appointed defense attorney who does the bare minimum to establish competent defense and avoid censure and nothing more.




Lightning Knight posted:

No, it is not. But I am in fact arguing that fascists don’t deserve the same treatment as everyone else, yes.


Next time do your own homework.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Lightning Knight posted:

“Not treating Nazis better than most of the population will lead to a leftist police state” - A Take.

Most people already don’t get a “zealous” defense. A Nazi getting a mediocre defense is actually par for the system.

Koalas Massacre posted:

This already happens but like most things no one gives a gently caress when it happens to black people but suddenly now that it theoretically might happen to a Nazi people are happy to come out the woodwork to say how our justice system can be bad.

Whataboutism - A mods tale.

Lightning Knight, you want an authoritarian police state where only "certain people" have rights. At least own up to it.

No one here has said the US justice system is without fault. But actively seeking to deny people rights is a terrible idea.

Xae fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Dec 29, 2018

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Lightning Knight posted:

I have argued that lawyers should treat Nazis differently, not the law as such. I stand by that. gently caress Nazis. Acting as if this is some terrible authoritarian regime I want to impose, as opposed to saying mean things online about lawyers who willingly defend Nazis, is hilarious.

Having the technical right to something but being unable to exercise it is still denying someone those rights.

And if you stop and think about it for a minute you'll realize why.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Lightning Knight posted:

Yes, yes it is, and lawyers should do so to Nazis - which is not the same as the law itself doing it. The difference between Nazis and [every other group of people we arbitrarily decide to poo poo on for who they are] is that Nazis choose to be genocidal asshats, and are inherently anti-social.

Arguing that Nazis deserve the best possible defense in a society that routinely bludgeons the poor and marginalized with the legal system is reprehensible.

There are plenty of people who argue leftists are "genocidal asshats" as well.

Who gets to decide what ideologies deny people their rights? How do you make this determination? What criteria are used? What mechanisms are there for appeal? Should leftists be denied the right to a good defense?

Don't even type an answer to that, just think on it.

Are you starting to see the problem?

The justice system isn't in the job of deciding who is "truly" a good or bad person. It is looking at the law.

quote:

Arguing that Nazis deserve the best possible defense in a society that routinely bludgeons the poor and marginalized with the legal system is reprehensible.

Everyone should have a right to the best possible defense. No one has said the current system is good.

But dealing with the massive, structural problems in the system is a different thing than denying people rights based on their political beliefs.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Stereotype posted:

It is insane how many problems would be fixed if we had a 90% top marginal tax rate. Basically all of them. Name a problem and I’ll explain how a 90% top marginal tax rate would fix it.
It doesn't fix me being overly pedantic:

Marginal tax rate does not equal effective tax rate.

Even when marginal tax rates where 90%+ the effective tax rates for the 1% were pretty close to current values.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Lemming posted:

They also love living in states with higher taxes like California and New York, so it doesn't even apply in cases where moving is relatively easier

Where people live and where they claim they live are often very different things.

It is not uncommon for the very wealthy to claim residence in a no income tax state and live in a high tax high service state.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Potato Salad posted:

Lol Glenn is straight-up taking divisive marching orders from the Kremlin, there's no other way given who he is that this is real

He isn't taking marching orders, he has always been a tremendous idiot. If a Deepthroat magnitude source hadn't landed in his lap no one would remember who he was.

The testimony of his incompetence is that he managed to gently caress up half the Snowden reporting and get his next big source burned and jailed.

He is an utterly incompetent buffoon who has realized his 15 minutes of appearing competent are up and he needs a paycheck.

Xae fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Jan 15, 2019

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

mango sentinel posted:

He's not. Almost none of them are really except the most hardened xenophobes and Unionists. They are just shackled to the idiotic referendum and would get shredded electorally if they abrogated "the will of the people." Lots of parliament is looking for an out to the whole thing in a way they don't have to claim responsibility for Betraying The Brexit Promise.

He voted against initially joining it, voted more times against it afterwards, stayed REAL quiet on it during the refurendum, has forced Pro-EU people out of leadership, has parotted the Pro-Brexit party line about staying in the common market and has said he doesn't support a second refurendum.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Nocturtle posted:

It's precisely the cheapness of natural gas capacity that's allowing coal plants to close down in the US, as incredibly new natural gas capacity is very close to price-competitive with operating existing coal plants:


Regarding prematurely closing down existing natural gas plants to meet emission targets, until I see otherwise I feel safe suggesting that the investors are likely to win that battle.

It depends on how cheap solar gets.

If building new solar gets cheaper than operating an existing plant they'll close down the gas plants fast enough.

That can be encouraged and speed up through subsidies and taxes.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Arrgytehpirate posted:

I’m not quoting everyone but yes most of our opioid abuse started with pills.

20.8 million pills were shipped to two pharmacies in a town for 2900 people.

Our AG gave them a sweetheart deal.

In some good news though meth is starting to outpace opioids because it’s so much cheaper

A reminder that all opioid prescriptions have to be logged into a national database when they are written and when they are filled.

If the DEA gave a gently caress they could identify the crooked doctors and pharmacies in an afternoon.

This same data is also sold to drug companies, at the zip code level, so they can track sales. They know too.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Discendo Vox posted:

Do you have a source with more information on the logging and national database part of this?

I helped build a system which took in the data and used it to calculate Drug Rep bonuses.

I'm sure there is some official write-up on the official database somewhere but I can't remember enough of it to Google it up.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Schools don't get paid if a student is absent? What the ever loving loving kind of system is that. It's like a profit motive for stuffing schools as full as possible and not give a gently caress about teaching them.

I am not looking forward to interacting with the school system when my children are of age.

The standard formula for state and federal money to districts is based on pupil days.


Fewer pupils or fewer days means less funding.

It really fucks with things in northern areas of the country because schools can't afford to close when you get a blizzard or a cold-pocolypse style event.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Your Taint posted:

Don't we pretty much have a handle on HIV now, or am I an idiot?

edit: I want to clarify that I am not trying to minimize HIV in any way, nor am I suggesting we shouldn't still be looking to eradicate it. It's horrible. I only posed the question because if you're going to single out an epidemic, it seems like opioids are the bigger concern right now.

The modern drugs are very good at stopping HIV from turning into AIDS.

The biggest issues now are stigma, detection and affording treatment.

There is a lingering issue on the long term of "So, what is taking extremely powerful drug or drug cocktails, some of which were rushed out, for decades going to do to a person?" but that is a kind of a secondary issue.

The modern drugs are really good. They keep the viral load undetectable. Meaning that if a person took another HIV test, they would show as HIV negative.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Noise Complaint posted:

Cohen is like 110% prepared and the GOP members are absolutely not.

Alternate theory: The GOP did prepare, they're just all dumb as gently caress.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Priapus Unbound posted:

How difficult is it to get your picture taken with these politicians? Genuinely curious. Is it something that anyone can do, or do politicians generally try to be careful about who they appear smiling with?

For most of the B and C tier people? Not very.

Show up to a fund raiser and you'll get a dozen Grip and Grins.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

GreyjoyBastard posted:

okay I'm gonna be honest, I'm enjoying this

It does provide even more proof to the "Twitter literally breaks your brain" hypothesis.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

mod sassinator posted:

No. I want to stop people from being able to communicate hate and companies profiting off it. There is a very clear distinction between that and the idea of stopping all speech. You can march down to any public street corner and blast whatever hateful poo poo you want on a megaphone. You shouldn't be able to do that to the entire world on Twitter, Discord, etc. and put money in people's pockets (directly or indirectly) in the process.

Stand down free speech crusader. Your precious first amendment is not under attack. Don't worry there are plenty of ways to still discuss hate speech and organize mass murders that don't involve companies profiting off it.

You can write a poo poo-tier XMPP protocol client in hours with very little tech experience.

The instant messaging and chat room genie is out of the bottle. You can't put it back in.

Its like trying to argue that we should ban sticks or clubs: Even if you somehow took all of them away its trivial to create more.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Z. Autobahn posted:

You are functionally saying "Do not allow web services to allow users to communicate privately" or perhaps more generously "Have web services monitor all private communications between all users". Do you now understand how this is insane?

It would also require erasing the knowledge of how to create replacement tools.

Having poo poo heads be on Discord is the last bad thing. If it was on IRC or XMPP or another protocol they could host their own servers, in countries that would tell the US to gently caress off, and it would be much more difficult to get access to them. Because Discord is a centralized system is now trivial for Law Enforcement to monitor them once they are aware of them and choose to monitor them.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

theflyingorc posted:

The most important thing is that we all agree that her thoughts in her heart were v. Bad

There is no crime greater than "thoughts I'm pretty sure she had" crime

I'll never understand this threads obsession with searching twitter for hours looking for A Dumb Take from The Other Side and then breathlessly running into the thread and pretending that "Someone said something dumb on twitter" is meaningful or important.

Ban Twitter links IMO. If one of the 50 billion news sites can't bother to write an article about it then it probably doesn't matter.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Jealous Cow posted:

I have a bad feeling that Kellyanne Conway is going to be easily rehabilitated after all this is over.

I assumed that was the whole point of leaking poo poo under her husband's name.

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Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Paradoxish posted:

I'd be shocked if her image could actually be successfully rehabilitated in any meaningful way. Like, she'll be fine, just like everyone who doesn't go to jail in this mess will probably be fine, but I don't think she's going to have some kind of long-term successful public career outside of maybe Fox. I know people who don't give a poo poo about Trump or politics at all who still recognize her as an especially loathsome individual. There's a level of shameless sycophancy that's just wildly obvious and turns off just about everyone.

I think she's been hedging her bets with the leaks under her husband's name.

With the intent is swinging back into the Generic Conservative Grift if/when the admin goes down in flames.

She's never going to be adored by anyone outside of the party, but she's successfully positioned herself to be able to survive the admin collapsing.

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