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Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




I'm glad I only got a smart phone three-ish years ago. About the only I use it for other than work is SA.

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Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Hellblazer187 posted:

Closing the southern border would torch the US economy as well. He's never going to close the border.

Not all the assumptions you make to say this may be true.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




OddObserver posted:

To clarify, Russia rammed and boarded Ukrainian vessels trying to enter the Azov sea.

Incorrect they are boarding all vessels of all flags that enter. Including some EU flags. They seized a couple Ukrainian coast Guard vessels.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vo5EMKg&ampcf=1

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Kafka Esq. posted:

Your link does not appear to be show him as incorrect, comrade.

I read his post wrong both things are correct.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Akumu posted:

Given that nobody really seemed to give a substantive poo poo about Russia infringing on Ukraine's actual terrestrial rights, I find it hard to imagine that there will be much of a stir over its maritime rights. Doesn't feel great. Where does it end?

It's a big chunk of their exports, their coal grain and steel terminals are there. The receivers, charterers, owners of the vessels will give a poo poo. Could be several countries affected.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Maximizing in an unconstrained way for a single value in a system usually fucks with the system, and if it's the right variable it can cause failure of the system. Maximizing for shareholder value needs to die.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Data Graham posted:

My question is whether businesses are being actually socially conscious nowadays, i.e. pulling advertising from Fox News shows, taking stands that cause chuds to boycott them, etc; or whether it's all calculated and performative and aimed at shareholder profits in the end anyway

Most of them have programs but it's that second part "performative and aimed at shareholder profits" some times when they do that the brand gets hosed by it. There are case studies but I don't remember the specfics. So they are taught it has to be real. But you know how that goes.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Barry Foster posted:

Nationalise that poo poo, IMO.

No direct government control, of course, but bring it into public ownership.

EDIT - although I suppose that's an absolutely impossible demand in the USA

Not for profits with a public mandated mission, that have government, relevant industry, and relevant nonpartisan organizations on the board are pretty good things.

We use them for other things and they work so well nobody knows they exist basically.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Transportation and internstionsl trade is one place, some of the regulatory bodies discharge thier obligations, and some are international treaty obligations, to not for profits structured like that, that have the professional knowledge to deal with it. Some that I can think of exist historically and even predate the county.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




ABS (American Bureau of Shipping) is an example of one of these not for profits.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Hannity talking military tribunals. But we haven't heard a word about what Cohen may have said about him?

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's dumber than that. Dubya watched too much goddam 24 and ordered torture to happen, that was the extent of the thought process.

They also hired a pair (think it was two?) of consulting "psychologists" who came up with a bunch of the poo poo in the enhanced interrogation programs basically by pulling it out of thier asses.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Charlz Guybon posted:

Wait, really? I always assumed they were more grifters than ideologues.

They have a canon. There are Charles Koch parables in the Koch newsletters. And he's got it backwards, Charles is the for sure true believer. The Cato institute was orginally the Charles Koch institute. And oh yeah they were Birchers at on point. It's old and locked but I did a thread onb the Kochs and libertarianism years ago. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3598750

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




It's probably time to regulate the internet.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




awesmoe posted:

. I've...got some bad news...

Regulation usually doesn't happen until there is death and blood. We didn't join SOLAS until a goddamn town was exploded.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




So what are we eventually looking at acting Sec Def Mike Mulvaney?

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006





The guy who is acting CoS, was acting head of the CFPB, who was orginally appointed to what was it? OMB?

Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Dec 21, 2018

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Mnuchin and the other one Kudlow both are liars. I've heard the marketplace host outright say kudlow was lying to him. They are also dumb but not like Trump dumb, just regular person dumb.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




I think Tibalt is right, this could be a long rear end shutdown. He knows the optics of not getting his wall.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Meant to put this here not USPOL so I guess both get it. Newish Krugman

On the subject of taxes. Originally posted this in the trade thread:

The Trump Tax Cut: Even Worse Than You’ve Heard https://nyti.ms/2H2rvYL

Look at that reinvested income vs dividends graph in there. gently caress.

Also it's foreign wealthy getting most of the benefit. A reminder if taxes on the rich can be raised hit those sovereign wealth funds with US assets too.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




CBP is from what I see is being maybe "surly" would be the right word for it, due to the shutdown.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Herstory Begins Now posted:

After 15 years of generally quite skillful republican political maneuvering wrt their press efforts, it's so weird to see them so adrift and completely on the wrong side of the narrative.

Roger Ailes is dead.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Herstory Begins Now posted:

FYI offering lucrative deals to profit off of business in Russia is explicitly how Russia acquires influence over officials

I posted slides from DOD PowerPoint describing literally this process in the Russia thread.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Herstory Begins Now posted:

Look it is absurd to suggest that russia controls anyone in the us govt, someone on the internet says so.

They didn't go with that, it got "McCarthyism"-ed.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Of course it's the Magnitsky Act they're ignoring.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




HootTheOwl posted:

If you can't see the difference between Obama and the unaccompanied minor crisis and Trump and child separation then there's nothing more to say here.

They can see the diffence.

But one can only argue: see Obama's the same as Trump by willfully ignoring the difference.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006





Pay careful attention to the banks language here. Particularly the distinction between "Owner" and "Operator" in a lot of transportation (and pipelines are) things don't work like one would normally expect with regards to liabilities. One would need to dig into the CFRs to get the specfics for different modes.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




HootTheOwl posted:

Except you can turn that off. I don't consider "pilot error" the fault of the airplane. We pay pilots a lot of money to know how.

Pilots and thier training are a part of the designed system and blaming them is shifting the blame from the actually responsible parties.
This is also the common tactic of the parties responsible, when these types of designed systems fail. Blame the operator.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




HootTheOwl posted:

If this latest crash turns out not be "the system the pilot didn't turn off" I'll eat some poo poo. If it turns out that it's a different flaw of the aircraft I'll eat even more poo poo.
Feel free to quote those and PM you favorite redtext. I'll buy it for myself. But so far there's been two accidents, one from pilot error and one that it's too early to tell.

On the vessel side if I saw an accident created by that type of error I would still characterize it as a failure of the vessel's safety management system (SMS).

Airlines have the same safety managment systems, but they probably call them something slightly different.

And it's also a failure of the regulator that approved said system.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




SimonCat posted:

If Wells Fargo loans me money to buy a car they are not liable if i run someone over with it.

Because they own the loan and not the car?

You would be both owner and operator in that circumstance dingus. And your car is not a pipeline, ship, or railroad and it often works differently for those things.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




SimonCat posted:

They hold the title until the loan is paid, making them the owner.

Yeah but you're still on the registration with the state.

Let's look at itb this way let's say you have an oil tanker. A bank owns the vessel. A Greek vessel management company operates the vessel. A Filipino crewing company provides the employees that physically work on the ship. A charter time charters the vessel for a cargo. A country administers an interpretation of SOLAS as the vessels flag state. A classification society issues certificates for the vessels equipment and SMS.

It runs aground an investigation finds that the third mate made a navigational error and failed to notify the captain when it was identified. However the error and the failure to notify the captain occurred due to a falty procedure in the vessels SMS. The SMS was created by the operator, approved by the class and accepted by the flag.

Who gets sued and where does the liability for the accident lie? One has to turn to a list of international treaties and national regulations to answer that question. Pipelines (and airline) accidents are similarly complicated in a way that is very different from a passenger vehicle.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




PainterofCrap posted:

This, in a nutshell, explains a great deal about the idiotic decisions made routinely by corporate boards, resulting in the downward trajectory of many large, long-established corporations that are hurtling towards failure.

I saw the same thing at the federal military academies. Like literally "Mommy drew his engineering diagrams" for one of the people shooting for valedictorian. At least that fucker didn't get it.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




It's going to take a while for the DOJ higher ups to read.

Then it's going to take a for Barr to decide what he'll do with it.

Past those two things we won't know anything till it happens.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Kobayashi posted:

Russiagate, Mueller, the supposed NY ATG investigations, that's all the political equivalent of Batboy supermarket tablet nonsense. I understand being invested in a show, but it's clearly run its course now. It's time to turn off the TV and go outside.

Manafort sitting in prison must be greatly comforted by this all being like "batboy"

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Agents are GO! posted:

USNEWS: Well curated dumps are less frequent dumps.

I had this problem. I thought it was cancer. Turns out one can become lactose intolerant well into ones thirties.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006





It's not that there is a new group of voters waiting to be mobilized. It is that in Christianity there is already a large group of people with a particular set of symbols they participate in already in thier brains. The right has misused those symbols for political ends for decades. To turn people who participate in them into something else.

The left can do that too. And public figures are beginning to. That's not going to appear in data about groups. It's a narrative change. It's a change in the use of common symbols and language. It takes a while to do its thing.

Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Apr 12, 2019

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




BlueBlazer posted:

There are some amazingly progressive religious folks out there.

The cold war made us forget all the people who believed that: Socialism is the fufillment of the Christian eschatology.

It's becoming viable to assert that again.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




The left ignores charismatic transformational leaders at its own peril.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




FoolyCharged posted:

I mean, you'd have a real hard time asserting that Jesus and the early Christians weren't full blown communists. "Abandon your possessions and follow me" isn't exactly subtle.

In Acts:
"And all those who believed were together and everything they had was communal."

The mistake I think was made was conflating an instance of authoritarianism as socialism / communism. Seeing Stalin's Soviet Union pushed many theologians who were socialists into being realist cold warriors. That's not our context anymore and authoritarianism (whoch is still the enemy) can insert itself into any type of goverment.

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Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




The cold war.

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