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https://twitter.com/DEFCONWSALERTS/status/1100798542275379203
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Feb 27, 2019 17:54
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| # ¿ May 20, 2024 10:35 |
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tino posted:If you are widening the definition of genocide, then you have to invent a new word to describe the actually killing people kind of genocide. That's called Cultural Genocide. And that is actually the definition of what he's talking about, although ethnocide is often the preferred word. quote:It involves the eradication and destruction of cultural artifacts, such as books, artworks, and structures, and the suppression of cultural activities that do not conform to the destroyer's notion of what is appropriate. Motives may include religious ones (e.g., iconoclasm), as part of a campaign of ethnic cleansing in order to remove the evidence of a people from a specific locale or history, as part of an effort to implement a Year Zero, in which the past and its associated culture is deleted and history is "reset", the suppression of an indigenous culture by invaders and colonisers, along with many other potential reasons. Genocide is not strictly death camps. It can be the elimination of a culture (like what the Chinese are doing, and what the US and Canadians have done before). the Holocaust did not start with death camps, but it was always genocide, even in the beginning. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 00:22
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Darth Walrus posted:I feel like the 'cide' bit means it should mainly involve killing people. We have ethnic cleansing for everything else. Ethnic cleansing and Genocide are so incredibly close, and its pretty rare for ethnic cleansing to NOT involve killing, either indirectly or directly.
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Aug 9, 2019 01:04
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tino posted:CCP is not trying to eliminate the Uyghurs culture (you can't if Uyghurs are not intermixing with other ethnic groups), CCP is trying to eliminate the kind of religion (Sunni Muslim) that confirm to a foreign religious authority. CCP is fine if Uyghurs fork their sect of Islam and have their own high religious figure reside in the country which CCP can control. Kind of like how Henvy VIII split from Catholicism and roll his own Church of England. Uhhhh.....this isn't what is happening at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps The CCP views ANY Muslims as a terrorist threat, so they are rounding them up to force them to renounce being Muslim. This is EXACTLY Ethnic Genocide: Convert or Die. quote:On 24 October 2018, the BBC released the details of an extensive investigation into China's hidden concentration camps and the extent to which the People's Republic goes to maintain what it calls "correct thought".[31] US-based journals like the Foreign Policy Journal and Center for World Indigenous Studies have labeled these policies as "cultural genocide".[32][33] Some parties refer to these camps as "concentration camps".[16][7][34][35][6] The Times of Israel wrote a piece comparing these vocational camps to the U.S. Japanese-American concentration camps during World War II as well as the British Palestine internment camps for Jews.[36][37] The European Union and Turkey were invited to visit part of Xinjiang by China in order to examine the situation themselves.[38][39] The EU initially declined, due to worries that the tour might be “choreographed” by the Chinese government, but it was open to visit Xinjiang at a later date I think its safe to say you need to stop nitpicking over ethnic cleansing and genocide when you can't even identify obvious events that are such things. quote:In January 2018, Abdurahman Hasan, a Uyghur businessman from Kashgar, was interviewed by BBC News in Turkey and asked the Chinese government to shoot his 68-year-old mother and 22-year-old wife after learning of the inhuman torture conducted in one of the camps in Kashgar.[73] Kayrat Samarkand, a Kazakh citizen who migrated from Xinjiang, was detained in one of the "re-education camps" in the region for three months for visiting neighboring Kazakhstan. On 15 February 2018, Kazakh Foreign Minister Kairat Abdrakhmanov sent a diplomatic note to the Chinese Foreign Ministry, the same day as Kayrat Samarkand was freed from custody.[148] After his release, Samarkand shared his distressing experience and claimed that he faced endless brainwashing and humiliation, and that he was forced to study communist propaganda for hours every day and chant slogans giving thanks and wishing for a long life to Xi Jinping, current General Secretary of the Communist Party of China.[149] I'm sure they'll stop TORTURING PEOPLE when they are nice, safe, non-terrorist Muslims 
CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 02:19
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tino posted:You can't change the culture and way of life by labor/forced education camps. And the CCP know that because they had done it before in the 60s to the "Rightist". Most of the ruling CCP cadres are sons of those oppressed rightist, including Xi Jinping. Whatever they are trying to do with the vocational camp, the goal is not " changing their culture." I think the goal is closer to the Japanese American internment camp. Stop. Just stop. You don't even understand either of these scenarios. The goal of the Japanese Internment Camps was not re-education. Nor torture. It was just "Japanese are who we are fighting, so they are all traitors. Lock them up". It was also wrong and inhumane. The CCP is torturing people, forcing them to do things counter to their religion, and in many cases causing these people's death. Stop trying to insinuate otherwise. THAT is ethnic cleansing. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 02:23
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tino posted:What are we arguing on an internet discussion forum or you just want to shout me down? Because you are not even arguing based on fact. You are making this poo poo up as you go. Both your claims about the CCPs Concentration Camps and what they are doing are entirely false. I posted links for you to conveniently browse. And then you compared that to the Japanese Internment Camps, with no evidence to support such a claim. The only comparison is: Both are camps, and both are for holding people. But what is happening in those camps is completely different. quote:Tursun said she and other inmates were forced to take unknown medication, including pills that made them faint and a white liquid that caused bleeding in some women and loss of menstruation in others. Tursun said nine women from her cell died during her three months there. One day, Tursun recalled, she was led into a room and placed in a high chair, and her legs and arms were locked in place. "The authorities put a helmet-like thing on my head, and each time I was electrocuted, my whole body would shake violently and I would feel the pain in my veins," Tursun said in a statement read by a translator. "I don’t remember the rest. White foam came out of my mouth, and I began to lose consciousness," Tursun said. "The last word I heard them saying is that you being an Uighur is a crime." She was eventually released so that she could take her children to Egypt, but she was ordered to return to China. Once in Cairo, Tursun contacted U.S. authorities and, in September, came to the United States and settled in Virginia. No, that doesn't sound like them being force to change their culture at all now, does it. quote:Mihrigul Tursun, an Uyghur woman detained in China, after escaping one of these camps, described details of torture and beatings. Educated in Egypt, Tursun had traveled to China in 2015 to spend time with her family and was immediately detained and separated from her infant children. When Tursun was released three months later, one of the triplets had died and the other two had developed health problems. Tursun said the children had been operated on. She was arrested for a second time about two years later. Several months later, she was detained a third time and spent three months in a cramped, suffocating prison cell with 60 other women, having to sleep in turns, use the toilet in front of security cameras and sing songs praising China’s Communist Party. Neither does that. Nope, not trying to force you to abandon your culture through outright torture. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 02:25
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tino posted:What exact I claimed was false? Before you go on, nobody has loving facts about these camp. Everything is speculation from satellite images and anecdotal stories from people who went to the camp and got released. "Don't believe that Jewish guy, its not all you've heard about those Nazi Camps" If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it might be a concentration camp for forcing an entire culture to change their views through the use of torture. You have no proof to the contrary either, you are not even trying to present any evidence to counter these claims, only offering your opinion. tino posted:I was only speculating the the goal and purpose of the camp, it's an opinion. Bullshit. You are straight up discounting the experiences of people that countries sent envoys to free. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/04/05/are-historic-mosques-in-xinjiang-being-destroyed/  These guys look like they are having such a great time. Surely not being forced to listen to re-education material in a concentration camp. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 02:32
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Grape posted:In that sense I think ethnic cleansing should focus more on the removal of a certain people from a certain space, by largely non lethal means. Again, Ethnic Cleansing rarely, if ever, doesnt lead to genocide. They almost always go hand in hand.
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Aug 11, 2019 12:56
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Grape posted:I don't think this is correct though, lots of the instances of ethnic cleansing are things coming from wars where huge population transfers occur of specific ethnic groups fleeing the violence that the other (ascendent) group is bringing with them. Except the Trail of Tears is accepted as being part of a pogrom, which in turn was genocidal. And again, its pretty rare for ethnic cleansing, even just through expulsion, to NOT have genocide as part of it. Nearly every case of "Ethnic Cleansing" that was classified of expulsion included mass executions, and the deaths along the road are counted towards to toll of Genocide. They are almost never exclusive. If a government specifically targets a group, either due to culture/religion (China, Armenia, etc.) or Skin Color/Culture (Native Americans/Africans/etc.), its incredibly unlikely any attempt is going to be made to SAFELY expel them. Almost always, the expulsion includes outright murder and mass executions. Ethnic Cleansing devalues a group of people over another, and there's little to stop mass murder from happening. After all, they are lesser, they are not wanted, why let them live. Regardless of how Ethnic Cleansing starts, it always results in Genocide eventually. The idea that expulsion, and the certain deaths to follow, should not count as genocide is laughable. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 15:56
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| # ¿ May 20, 2024 10:35 |
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Grape posted:Why is certain death assured following expulsion though? Like on a death march into the Syrian desert like in the Armenian genocide yeah, but for lots of cases there's no certain death. No, its pretty certain. People forced from their homes rarely have food, clothing, and necessities to make the trip. It is, for the most part, a death march. That's what Ethnic Cleansing is. Get rid of them. We don't want them. Let them starve. Let them die. At the end of the day: This is just nitpicking to argue this, Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide have the same goals, but usually converge in the end.
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Aug 11, 2019 16:51
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