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This thread is to discuss how I'm a bad mod. Feel free to do so.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:25
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I do not think you are a bad mod. I frankly can't believe that amount of patience you have. Thanks.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:33
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Will this result in any meaningful change to moderation or did you just make this thread to play victim because you refuse to ban a poster who wants to put kids in concentration camps?
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Apr 29, 2019 15:34
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This thread is what spawned this, for those joining late. I really don't think "it's ok to talk about every fascist in trad gaming apart from the ones that post in Trad Games" is a great ground rule for a thread, honestly. I know callout threads are heavily frowned on but 
TTerrible fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 15:36
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I don't know what this poster did but it seems like a lot of my favourite posters in tg are mad and all got probations, which is probably making the bad poster happier with their concentration camp posting despite having been banned for it.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:37
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I did not think you were a bad mod until today. I still think it's possible you made a mistake, and you keep making it, like a septuagenarian who drove into a wall by mistaking the brake and accelerator, but this thread is making that seem increasingly unlikely. When a known fascist runs into a thread about calling out fascists and starts doing the "I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONNNNS" dance, they are being disingenuous at best and are actively trying to gently caress up the conversation. I don't think it's unreasonable at all for the community to ask you to take action about it, and in fact your refusal to do so has created....whatever the hell this is.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:38
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BIG MEATY SHITS posted:Will this result in any meaningful change to moderation or did you just make this thread to play victim because you refuse to ban a poster who wants to put kids in concentration camps? Yes, I refuse to ban a poster who was already banned for a post that was made before I even became a moderator.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:40
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TTerrible posted:This thread is what spawned this, for those joining late. And the poster that Beer is protecting is of this quality: quote:It's not a good solution, but likening them to concentration camps is jumping the shark. At least call it what it is: jailing I don't agree with. Unless you can post some info that says the living conditions of these people are subhuman or they are being detained for no reason (even if you don't agree with being arrested for illegal entry, doesn't mean it isn't a reason).
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Apr 29, 2019 15:40
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yes, I refuse to ban a poster who was already banned for a post that was made before I even became a moderator. "Welp he's already been banned once but he's back again my hands are tied."
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Apr 29, 2019 15:41
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Yes, I refuse to ban a poster who was already banned for a post that was made before I even became a moderator. That is understandable, but that poster then kramering into the Fascists thread and "just asking questions" is high bullshit as food court bailiff pointed out.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:41
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For anyone new, the context is that the poster in question is a fascist poster who literally supports detaining children from their families. And the majority of the subforum hates him and wants him banned.food court bailiff posted:I did not think you were a bad mod until today. I still think it's possible you made a mistake, and you keep making it, like a septuagenarian who drove into a wall by mistaking the brake and accelerator, but this thread is making that seem increasingly unlikely. I agree with all this. Wasn’t there a time in SAs history where nazis were banned on sight?
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Apr 29, 2019 15:44
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food court bailiff posted:I did not think you were a bad mod until today. I still think it's possible you made a mistake, and you keep making it, like a septuagenarian who drove into a wall by mistaking the brake and accelerator, but this thread is making that seem increasingly unlikely. I'm making this thread because I genuinely do want folks to feel like their concerns are heard, and if I need to change how I moderate then I'm willing to consider it. I could have been more up front about that. This community is important to me. The primary way that I determine what actions need to be taken is through reports. LordAba has received two about that thread, and one was just made by you. This is the kind of post that you feel is worthy of probation: LordAba posted:Sorry about the assumption! But I really don't know what adjacent means in this context. Ally, apologist, sure, but not adjacent. Speaking only for myself, I don't know what "adjacent" means in the context either. So I don't feel that this was a derail.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:54
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It's not the post it's the poster.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:00
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I'm making this thread because I genuinely do want folks to feel like their concerns are heard, and if I need to change how I moderate then I'm willing to consider it. I could have been more up front about that. This community is important to me. I think Booley's post from further down the page gives context to the 'fash adjacent' bit that Aba's playing up to his 'just asking questions' theme in this thread with.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:03
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It'd be arbitrary to ban Aba without him freshly violating a rule, which isn't to say it would be wrong per se. SA has a long history of arbitrary moderation to get rid of dipshits. But it can set a bad precedent so I get where you're coming from there, Beer. I also get that you don't want pages of people just saying "this specific poster's a fascist". That said, he holds views that most of us don't want to touch with someone else's lovely stick, and I don't think it's unreasonable for people to refuse to let him get away with his "hello fellow kids" routine when he pops up. Fascists should be ostracised. Personally, if he can't be banned outright, I'd rather he be specifically excluded from the fascist thread because, as already pointed out, an actual fascist "just asking questions" in the fash thread is Sealioning, it's an act of subtle trolling designed to gently caress with the discourse. There's plenty of precedent for telling people to stay out of certain threads, or even subforums (hello Hollismason). Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 16:18
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TTerrible posted:That is understandable, but that poster then kramering into the Fascists thread and "just asking questions" is high bullshit as food court bailiff pointed out. now maybe around page 6, he started posting ben shapino tweets, or somewhere else he showed off his cool warhammer playset where a skaven army (kitbashed to look like Palestinians) were being round up and executed by Ultra Marines repainted to be Israeli forces you failed to make your case, to an outside observer it looks like a bad opinion-haver realized he could get y'all worked up after a failed callout. edit: Oh ha ha poo poo it got worse, I thought this was gonna be about that tallkidwithglasses stuff, I also second the thread has value as "Hey, here's a resource for figuring out folks you shouldn't give money or clicks to, which might not be apparent at first view" and poster callouts gets murky. Best bet is to say "Yeah you can't post in this thread" if there's something like a disruptor playing games. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 16:19
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I don't think you're a bad mod. The reality is that mods don't get to (or shouldn't) ban people who aren't breaking the rules regardless of whether or not they're disliked or facists. The point of the thread as far as I can tell is to call out facists who are making money (on YouTube, businesses, wherever) so other people know that they're dicks. Not to impose an ideological purity test on SA members I'm all for banning facists/Nazis on sight, but you're not a bad mod for enforcing the rules and no more
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Apr 29, 2019 16:20
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Coolness Averted posted:
I'm not calling for Aba to be banned over his posts in that thread. He has previously posted and defended (at length) that children going into concentration camps is actually not that bad. That he doesn't know what fascist adjacent means is total nonsense. Again, I don't expect him to be banned but maybe "fascists don't post in the fascist callout thread" would be great.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:24
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Coolness Averted posted:
What did I do exactly? To stay on topic with the thread though, I agree with the OP that the moderation in this subforum is uneven at best and poor at worst.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:26
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TTerrible posted:I'm not calling for Aba to be banned over his posts in that thread. He has previously posted and defended (at length) that children going into concentration camps is actually not that bad. That he doesn't know what fascist adjacent means is total nonsense. Again, I don't expect him to be banned but maybe "fascists don't post in the fascist callout thread" would be great. yeah I think that's a totally fair stance tallkidwithglasses posted:What did I do exactly? like I said I thought the headache was over your callout and someone eating a probation for not dropping it -as I'd only read a few pages of the thread. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 16:27
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I read BMS's thread. I think what BMS is trying to get at is that since his pro-concentration camp post, Aba has had a swastika avatar, and has been called a fascist when he shows up. He's never changed the avatar, nor has he denied that he has fascist politics. So, he probably is a fascist. Now the question is, is that deduction enough to ban him again, or does he have to do something flagrantly fascist? Some people (like BMS) say that's enough, but Beer says he has to do something flagrant (i.e. post something fascist again) to get banned. What Beer wants is feedback on this position. I don't see an issue with banning Aba, but I'm also sure if Beer does it that other posters will start trying to comb through people's histories to get them banned as well, and the logic will get more and and more specious, because there are some assholes around here who don't care about fascism, but would like to bully people. (Not BMS, for the record). So if Beer gives in here, he's gotta deal with that bullshit, whereas the simple standard of "post fascist stuff=you get banned" is a lot easier to enforce and deal with. e: this is basically what Lovely Joe already said. Seldom Posts fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 16:27
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Speaking only for myself, I don't know what "adjacent" means in the context either. So I don't feel that this was a derail. Do you think there's some sort of secret loving dictionary in play here?
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Apr 29, 2019 16:30
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I think beer is a great mod, and I don't think we should be banning posters for posts they've already been banned for. That's what perma-banning is for, no? That said, bash the fash, and the original post probably should have been a perma-ban, but traditionally that's only for repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat offenders, actual goose-stepping, heil'ing, full on nazis and 
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Apr 29, 2019 16:32
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Revelation 2-13 posted:I think beer is a great mod, and I don't think we should be banning posters for posts they've already been banned for. That's what perma-banning is for, no? That said, bash the fash, and the original post probably should have been a perma-ban, but traditionally that's only for repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat offenders, actual goose-stepping, heil'ing, full on nazis and But he is a repeat offender. His gimmick is coming in and going “well I’m just asking questions” to stir the pot. Like that’s what is also confusing about this. He’s actively detailing discussions but the posters that respond to his fascist derailing by telling him to leave are the ones getting punished.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:37
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Just ban the dude more often so Lowtax gets more money. And if it becomes chronic, then just permaban or do the whole 10-year long probation thing.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:38
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Seldom Posts posted:What Beer wants is feedback on this position. I don't see an issue with banning Aba, but I'm also sure if Beer does it that other posters will start trying to comb through people's histories to get them banned as well, and the logic will get more and and more specious, because there are some assholes around here who don't care about fascism, but would like to bully people. (Not BMS, for the record). So if Beer gives in here, he's gotta deal with that bullshit, whereas the simple standard of "post fascist stuff=you get banned" is a lot easier to enforce and deal with. No one has helldumped or post-mined anyway, and I've always been against both because people can change. We've already had one featured person in the fash thread buy an account so they could explain themselves and tell us how they've grown, and another apologise for hosting said fash and has deleted all related content on their channel. Like we keep saying in the fash thread, witch hunts are bad and never necessary because these fucks are always happy to out themselves. BIG MEATY SHITS fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 16:39
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BIG MEATY SHITS posted:No one has helldumped or post-mined anyway, and I've always been against both because people can change. We've already had one featured person in the fash thread buy an account so they could explain themselves and tell us how they've grown, and another apologise for hosting said fash and has deleted all related content on their channel. I like fash thread a lot. It's had notable success already. Thanks for making it.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:44
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food court bailiff posted:Do you think there's some sort of secret loving dictionary in play here? Take a step back, does it seem like beer is trying to have a good faith conversation here? Because if they are this accomplishes nothing. Explain to the mod what you'd like to see done differently or explain the context they're missing. I think a mistake some folks are making here is forgetting they're more queued into dog whistles and some current political discourse, and we're assuming everyone else is on the same page, so has to be disingenuous.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:45
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BIG MEATY SHITS posted:No one has helldumped or post-mined anyway, and I've always been against both because people can change. We've already had one featured person in the fash thread buy an account so they could explain themselves and tell us how they've grown, and another apologise for hosting said fash and has deleted all related content on their channel. You made a good thread and it has already benefited the community.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:49
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I think "Fash  posting here will result in you catching a ban." could be a valid solution. The fact is, the thread gets heated enough just due to the nature of the topic being discussed, and it doesn't need fash showing up to sealion or otherwise muddy the waters.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:51
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Coolness Averted posted:Take a step back, does it seem like beer is trying to have a good faith conversation here? Because if they are this accomplishes nothing. Explain to the mod what you'd like to see done differently or explain the context they're missing. I think a mistake some folks are making here is forgetting they're more queued into dog whistles and some current political discourse, and we're assuming everyone else is on the same page, so has to be disingenuous. I did think that they were trying to have a good faith conversation until they claimed to not understand a common word used in a common way with a ton of context around it as to how it was being used in this case. I mean, come on here, if you're arguing that the mod of the nerd game forum does not know a few different contexts of the word "adjacent" I am going to give you one hell of a side-eye. e: even with the world's biggest benefit of the doubt, if Beer had somehow gone their whole life without hearing "adjacent" used that way, maybe the whole Greek chorus of people calling Aba out for needlessly stirring poo poo could have been a tip? Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 16:54
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food court bailiff posted:I did think that they were trying to have a good faith conversation until they claimed to not understand a common word used in a common way with a ton of context around it as to how it was being used in this case. I mean, come on here, if you're arguing that the mod of the nerd game forum does not know a few different contexts of the word "adjacent" I am going to give you one hell of a side-eye. TBH the issue is probably more with the word "fascism". It's not particularly strongly defined and when you do try to nail it down you end up with questions like "were the Nazis actually fascists". Not in a way that absolves them of anything, but more in the sense that there wasn't a particularly coherent political philosophy underpinning it all. When you say fascism adjacent do you just mean people that are on the outskirts of the style over substance racial superiority stuff?
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Apr 29, 2019 17:12
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"Adjacent" is for-real confusing here. Wtf is "next to" fascism? Adjacent also implies that it isn't that thing by virtue of being in proximity to it. "The gas station is adjacent to the cleaners" doesn't imply any sameness to the buildings. If you means fascist, say fascist. "Enabler" "sympathetic" or "apologist" are probably closer to what is meant, imo. E: It's also super goddamn depressing to realize that the racist, fascist policy he's defending is actual federal policy and practice. It's disheartening and exasperating that our say in the matter is limited to whether or not we should allow one of its cheerleaders to talk about nerd games. moths fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 29, 2019 17:18
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I just don’t understand why the Nazi, who also details threads, can’t be banned. When most people want him banned. It’s not like SA has some resolute constitution that protects fascists. We are a bunch of dorks posting online on our protected community. The reason SA is so great is precisely because it has (had?) a low tolerance for shitposters and nazis and other jerkwads.
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Apr 29, 2019 17:24
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moths posted:"Adjacent" is for-real confusing here. Wtf is "next to" fascism? Adjacent also implies that it isn't that thing by virtue of being in proximity to it. "The gas station is adjacent to the cleaners" doesn't imply any sameness to the buildings. Doesn't necessarily have a party membership or a burning desire to grow a toothbrush moustache, but is absolutely fine with Those People going into the concentration camps. Which is Aba to a T, by his own admission.
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Apr 29, 2019 17:55
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im a bad mod too
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Apr 29, 2019 18:09
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Which is Aba to a T, by his own admission. That actually makes a lot of sense then, thanks.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:13
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If everyone called out Aba and he said 'I posted dumb poo poo in the past I'm not like that and don't agree with facism' the thread would have mostly stopped dogpiling him. Ignoring all the call outs and going 'but what is adjacent mean?' is just willfully ignorant at best and trolling and thread making GBS threads at worst. Stay out of the thread if you aren't going to atone for your lovely opinions.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:23
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I like you beer. You seem like a good egg who's trying his best to listen. I have no good opinion on banning this guy. But making him posting in the fash thread again a banable offensive seems good to me. He didn't add anything to the thread.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:41
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BoneMonkey posted:I like you beer. You seem like a good egg who's trying his best to listen. Yeah, I think this is basically where I sit.
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Apr 29, 2019 18:46
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