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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
I enjoyed this movie a lot, but I found it weaker than the first two from most directions...it felt a bit like there were production or maybe postproduction issues, or less budget to spread around, or a missing editor or something.
  • There was basically no intro or outro to frame any part of the action.
  • Some scenes in NYC in particular the Bowery King bits and some other first act material seem like they had sound mixing and framing issues. Lots of medium shots that would've worked in close-up or vice-versa. John's final "execution" and tumble were another point where the shooting was suddenly weak.
  • Big weird plot thing The Elder? Out of nowhere the Global Crime Government has an overarching leader instead of being a shadowy criminal mutual distrust pact. The dude is suddenly introduced in functionally mystical terms, effectively is the most powerful person on earth, and he's random Appropriative Bedouin Actor #238? Why...did they need to do this? Why not just have Wick meet with another adjudicator, or a high table member, or something?
  • Many elements lacked the strong overarching symbolism and themes of 2. I got some dogs/hunters/beasts metaphors, but still.
  • Similarly, while fights were still great, they felt more gimmicky and closer to "what resources/locations/objects do we have on our brainstorming list"?
  • Plotwise it's weird that they've got the protagonist just openly completely outclassed by several opponents who basically let him keep getting back up until he kills them. Once I can understand, but it happens five or so times in a row. Not referring to the Raid lads, that had some sort of explanation.
  • I loved the long shots, smooth tracking, and consistent, extensive, pulse-pounding combat of 2 most of all, and there was a lot less of that sort of work going into combat scenes this time- even in scenes with Reeves.
  • Seconding the faceless mook issues. I'm relatively new to CineD, but I'm sure y'all have gone into the lack of identification and expression that "everyone in identical masks and jumpsuits" creates.

None of this is damning by any means, I liked the film, but it's worrying me when it comes to sequels.

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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
It's much harder for me to care about the High Table membership when they already showed the guy running it above all of them and he was so lame. Also so far it seems like High Table leaders and reps are rich people in suits, not actual competent fighters of any kind.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Origami Dali posted:

It's a vintage 60's chess set designed by Austin Cox for ALCOA aluminum. It ain't cheap.

deathbagel posted:

Thanks for this! I had that exact set when I was a kid, it was my dad's and I got it when he died. No clue how he managed to have it, he was an alcoholic who couldn't hold down a job and drank himself to death, but it was by far the nicest thing he owned. I wish they hand't let me have it when I was a kid, because I of course destroyed it, which makes me sad now that I'm old and would love to have it. I'd never seen another set like that one until I saw it last night while watching this movie. Honestly I'd forgotten about it.

The movie was fantastic also. I really didn't expect much since by the third movie most series just completely go off the rails, but this one was still really good and I'm looking forward to part 4!

I don't think it's quite exactly that set- I'd need to see the scene again, but the pieces are narrower and longer, I believe, with some other shape differences.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xii9_oWQ7HY

edit: yep, sorry, replaced my dumb question with something more fun.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 26, 2019

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Right at the start of the Zero fight there’s a bit where he has wick dead to rights and just...pulls the sword back. It’s really lousy.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Halle Berry training for 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2RJPrY2Og

Some setting notes, based on my understanding of the plot. Spoilers ahoy, so sorry for the weird spacing.

  • At some point in 2 it's explicitly stated there are 12 seats at the High Table. This is in part to reflect the hercules/pantheon imagery the film has going.
  • My understanding is that Santino is not a High Table member until he takes his sister's position. It's always bugged me that Santino hiring John (through a Marker no less) to kill a High Table member didn't seem to cause any blowback for Santino. I guess the idea is Wick never tells anyone why he made the kill, or, now that Santino is a Table member, might makes right and they don't care?

  • Parabellum indicates at one point that the coins are sort of symbolic, in that you seem to pay with one coin for any given act. This has all sorts of weird ramifications for the criminal economy. Even very big syndicates like Viggo's gang have holdings of coins that are among their most important holdings...but they don't have that many of them- hundreds, perhaps, not thousands. Wick stands out for having a lot of coins in storage; they're an expression of his societal power (and, if you like, privilege and dependence on the Table).
  • Based on the dialogue in 3, Berrada's facility does appear to be the only place that mints the coins. I know it might seem unrealistic, but, well, horse kills.

  • Coins are used, or at least sought, by everyone under the Table, including the Bowery King's agents. Killers aren't the only people who use the coins, though they heavily flow into Continental hotels. We see Winston inspecting a set of these coins in 2. There doesn't seem to be a context in which the Continental pays people in coins, so I am under the impression these aren't freshly minted coins, but instead the Continental's takings. Some of the deleted scenes from 2 further confuse this, as the boxes the coins appear in also seem significant.
  • Like everything else, the Continental does seem to maintain a barely meaningful facade of normality. Presumably it's possible for me to get a room there, if I were completely oblivious and rich.
  • It's pretty notable that actual payment for contracts under the Continental system is in cash, not coins. It's likely that agents of crime lords get given coins for their own use.

  • With 3, it now appears likely that the organizations with seats at the Table probably get freshly minted coins and get to effectively act as the initial source of the coins in the economy of the underworld. This obviously gives them massive direct control- they're the mint and the bank. It would also explain why the Elder has power such that he can't be touched, if the system of the economy of the Table partially comes from his authority.
  • The Adjudicator's special coin appears to be a +1 bag of infinite coinvalue, and thus an expression of the Table's control. I need to find a clean screenshot of it.
  • I don't think it's that the Continental is truly exclusively for the elite assassins, so much as that it is, in terms of the Table's economy, very expensive to spend coins on what is basically a safe hotel room with every service costing additional coins.
  • I hate the High Elder and his role is unclear, but given the other themes involved I have to assume the creators know how orientalist and appropriative the character is, and that this is getting set up for something. He still feels really shoehorned in in Parabellum.


With all this said it seems pretty clear each entry so far has retconned and expanded the universe, so idk.

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Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Paragon8 posted:

It is interesting how little we see of the crime world outside of assassins. I think the most overt thing is the chop shop that leguizamo runs and the implication in JW1 and JW2 that the Tarasovs run a lot of stolen cars.

I guess maybe it'd be too dark if we saw human trafficking or drugs being moved?

The whole economy/logistics of the world has a great feel to it but it doesn't stand up to much scrutiny at all.

Deleted scenes from Wick 2 showed Santino seizing Aurelio's chop shop and other Tarasov properties, including some of the same materials (including drugs, iirc) that were getting hastily moved out of town during the intro to the taxi warehouse scenes.

tin can made man posted:

The manager of the Rome Continental does initially suspect John is there to kill the pope, so I guess that's not outside the upper realm of possibility

Another (very goofy) deleted scene has John apparently getting permission from the pope for his kill.

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