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KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Ms Adequate posted:

Stellar Monarch?

Stellar Monarch has manual fleet control though? Does it have an auto mode too?

JeremoudCorbynejad posted:

I'd like to see this tried in a 4X:

- Have four unit types, heavy infantry, light infantry, heavy cavalry, light cavalry - perhaps with a the extra specialist categories of seige equipment and artillery

- Have them oppose each other in a sort of rock-paper-scissors sort of way (i can't remember exactly what's good against what, I'd have to refer to my medieval warfare book)

I've been tooling around with ideas to "fix" Civ VI's combat for a while now. It goes like this:

  • Three primary unit types: heavy inf, light inf, and cav (undifferentiated).
  • Move speeds tripled across the board (or more).
  • Heavy infantry, on even footing and with all other factors being equal, win.
  • Any unit that is on open terrain (not hills, forests, marshes) adjacent to hostile heavy infantry becomes engaged Yes, this means that heavy infantry must fight to the death.
  • Engaged units cannot move, or use ranged attacks.
  • Light infantry have a ranged attack, of range 0 or 1 I'm undecided.
  • Light infantry do not take movement penalties from rough terrain (hills, forests, marshes).
  • Light infantry do gain a defensive bonus from rough terrain.
  • Other troop types do not benefit from rough terrain.
  • Cavalry may move after attacking, assuming they have move remaining.
  • Cavalry are unaffected by engagement.
  • Cavalry gain double the benefit from flanking/encirclement.
  • Cavalry take twice the movement penalty from rough terrain (hills, forests, marshes).

With the desired gameplay dynamics being:

  • Heavy infantry is the "default" unit type, and the mainstay in pitched battles.
  • Light infantry are useful in a supporting fire role on the field and dominate in marginal regions.
  • Cavalry are powerful where they can use their manoeuvre advantage to full affect, and are otherwise useful in flanking.

My goals being that:

  • Everything is useful, and nothing dominates to the point where it's the only thing you need.
  • Different scenarios call for different force compositions
  • In each scenario there is a clear and obvious correct choice. This is in the hopes that it makes it easy for the AI to reason about.

Artillery remain in a siege role and I have this idea about giving the scout line stealth abilities, so they're a bit like land-bound subs.

All of this is presupposing we retain 1UPT. If you don't want to do that, I don't think there's much point making the player care about pikes vs. bows because the differences between them aren't all that interesting above the tactical level. Rather, what you want to do is focus the system on strategic variables and give the player levers into that. Manoeuvre, logistics (notably absent from most 4Xs), production, veterancy, and information. A lot of the stuff which is going to be interesting here is going to be economic, social, political and doctrinal stuff. Clauswitz's war as an extension of society.

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KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

The Human Crouton posted:

Another thing I read: It's first come first serve when it comes to picking your culture in each age. No duplicates. So you won't be able to "solve" the best combination and pick it every game unless you are also the fist to advance in each age. That's probably also why they have a neolithic age: won't be able to choose the same starting culture every game unless you settle first.

Being consistently ahead of the AI is not an uncommon occurrence in 4Xs, so I wouldn't be surprised if getting the perfect combo is more common than you're implying. And if synergies are strong enough that chain-comboing culture picks is a prize to shoot for, that's going to be another way to snowball...

Neolithic sounds like a cool idea, though.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Are the Zhou not a little late for this crowd? I guess the Shang are just a bunch of question marks and turtle bones, though.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

habituallyred posted:

Manual fleet control is an option, but a slow one. For offence you manually designate the planets you want to conquer and the fleets you have set to attack start sizing them up. Unfortunately I cannot recall the admirals ever deciding to attack a weaker planet after picking an overly strong target. Defence fleets are automatically set up around each of your border planets based on your fleet templates.

I've played a few games of SM to completion and never once bothered turning on automated fleets. I'm mad, I guess.

Megazver posted:

Brian Reynolds is on record saying that in retrospect the unit designer was a mistake and he would have tried to give each faction their own somewhat asymmetrical army instead if he could redesign it.

I have a lot of time for unit designers and SMAC's in particular but this is a rad idea. I don't know if it'd make much sense for the genre in general but it would have worked great in SMAC.

What do you guys think each faction would have gotten?

Santiago is all about speed and flexibility, so I guess rovers, light naval craft and lots of air power.

Deirdre seems obvious- high on worm boils, low on machines.

Mass infantry and wave tactics seems almost too obvious for Yang. You'd maybe want to lean into the genejack/mastery of the flesh thing there- cyborgs and suchlike.

With Miriam, again, it seems almost too easy to rest on the religious stuff. And if you take that in an "unsophisticated zealots with crude equipment" sort of direction then you're going to be overlapping a lot with a presumed human-wave-Hive. Guerilla tactics, maybe? Stealth? I forget, were the Believers' favoured civics good for probe teams?

Zakharov, he's the science guy, so we're talking... high concept protoypes? Expensive, fragile, gimmicky and overspecialised? The guy who turns up to a fight with fifteen different types of scalpel.

That leaves Morgan and Lal as the ones with no really obvious way of war. Lal, I guess, is the "rules of war" guy, so he wants the most straightforward and "honest" army. A take a bunch of tanks and push them down the centre sort of guy. But as the economic powerhouse, Morgan also sort of wants to be the "mass materiel" guy. Tank columns for Morgan and... fire support for Lal? Combined arms, creeping barrages, that sort of thing? Drawing on Lal's position as the unity and cooperation guy.

You could make a case for Morgan as a "any thing you want, if you can pay for it" sort of guy, but that's a recipe for a balancing nightmare and a non-aesthetic.

Of course, we'd be talking stack-on-stack combat here, so we should probably approach it looking less at individual unit types and more at how the composite would feel in play.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Glass of Milk posted:

This is pretty interesting, but I really hope Firaxis steals the idea for one unified civ score in their next iteration. I hate how game-y the idea of victory paths has become

Absolutely. To paraphrase some game designer who guested on 3MA once- regardless of the other mechanics, regardless of whatever theme you think you're going for, it's the scoring system that ultimately defines what your game is about, because it's what contextualises everything else. There's nothing that kills the desire to play Civ in me quite like seeing people place civs into little boxes- oh, this is a culture civ, this is a science civ, this is a military civ. Anything that encourages more generalist/dynamic strategies is good in my book.

Tree Bucket posted:

Oddly enough, I feel like Mount and Blade: Bannerlord does a pretty good job of being a pre-industrial strategy game. Where are your allies? Where are your other armies? Where is the enemy? No one knows!!! Oh no we're out of grain, can we still eat our horses?

Yeah, I think it succeeds because, ironically, it limits how effectively the player can strategise. It robs you of the omniscent god-perspective you're usually given in a strategy game and forces you to deal with the limitations of being a human being with a specific position in space. It's something I wish CK3 would take cues from, actually.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Aerdan posted:

Presumably either the UK will be identified as such, or the list of ten civs they have for the next era doesn't include England at all.

No Britain in the Industrial Era would be a... choice.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Am I just getting more used to the game or is Victor way, waaay easier than Lucy? I flattened the AI this go around, ~7.8k fame to the next best's 2.5k.

Also, I seem to have forgotten how to build wonders? I got an alert even, "a wonder can be claimed", but I cannot for the life of me remember where the UI for claiming them is.

Deltasquid posted:

Also can you not stay in the culture you were in when moving eras?

You can, yes.

Gort posted:

I think the way it works is you have all the cultures you pick throughout the game, so by the end you're the Inca/Celt/German/USSR or whatever

Sorta. You retain the bonus but can no longer build the unique emblematic district or (I think?) unit.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Magil Zeal posted:

It felt like that to me too, but once I got my religion rolling I selected a bunch of civics and tenets that gave +influence and it came together reasonably quick. In the very early game though you are definitely influence-starved, given that civics cost influence now, and forget activating the agrarian ability or something.

Yeah, influence seems like something you have a lot of if you focus on it. Like a dumbass, I focus hard on science/food/production, and I don't think it should be a surprise that doing that starves me of influence.

Not that it stopped me from expanding aggressively in Victor. You can't completely shut out the AI, but I feel like that's a good thing.

Speaking of merging, how many regions do people go for per city? I go for three, a number I settled on in Lucy because it seemed like going larger led to too many stability issues and haven't revisited since.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

CuddleCryptid posted:



This seems to be my most common pattern when winning a game (this one on Empire, "research all technologies" victory). I had 11k fame, but a full half of it came from the contemporary era. The next runner up had 8k, but gained it all in or before the medieval era. I really don't know where the hell these guys are getting their Fame from, but it really does make a game where you are coming from last place every time.

Hmm. I've found you can farm quite a lot of fame if you're willing to stick around in an era for a bit and risk forgoing your first civ pick.

This is maybe not the best example because I clearly need to have the difficulty much higher, but:



I had 4k fame by the end of the Ancient era, and I was getting about 3k an era after that. Contemporary was the best, to be sure, but it was also a completely unnecessary victory lap lmao.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

victrix posted:

I think you can go slightly over the cap without much issue, but I don't know the exact penalties - I didn't find them with a casual glance at the encyclopedia.

There's only an influence penalty listed in the tooltip when you're over the cap. It's 10/turn for one, ~100 for two, ~300 for three. Never been more than three over cap but I assume it keeps scaling superlinearly.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Ebola Dog posted:

I'm pretty sure in humankind if your city production is high enough it will build more than one thing a turn. Like you put two units in the queue and they will both say 1 turn and both appear next turn.

Can confirm. If you build a city late in the game and attach a bunch of territories to it it'll have a huge production output and almost no cost for districts, so you can crank out like six a turn for a couple of turns.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

victrix posted:

am I taking crazy pills? you can build multiple items in one turn

Clarste means having multiple queues for different types of things I think. A building queue and a unit queue, that sort of thing.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Horizon Burning posted:

if there's one thing i think isn't great about the neolithic era, it's how random it is. if i don't find anything in turn 1 or 2, or it's the +5 food one? might as well restart if I'm hoping to play the civilizations the AI likes to pick. i don't know what the fix is but if you're not hitting one of those stars by turn 6, you're probably not going to get any of the 'in demand' civs. you've basically got half a dozen turns to hit a star and the placements are random, combine that with the knowledge star versus the other two...

Eimi posted:

It does suck how it's basically impossible to play Myceneans and Harrapans and the neolithic is def the era they have the biggest success just because of perfect ai knowledge atm.

Granted I think the best ancient civ is the Zhou so I get some freedom.

Hmm. What difficulty/pace are you on? Last game I did was Nation/Endless, and I got to pick Myceneans no problem. Who, by the way, are busted as gently caress if you want to do any sort of early aggression.

The AIs didn't start picking civs until turn 17, and I think I was a half dozen turns or so ahead of them.

e:

Staltran posted:

Also from watching the tutorial series PotatoMcWhiskey made, he says that you usually don't want to advance in era immediately. I think he said you generally want to get at least two gold stars before advancing?

I figure it depends how much pressure you're under but if you're comfortable enough to stick around and farm stars you can really rack up a huge fame lead.

e2: Each additional star in a category is worth more than the ones before it, remember.

KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 27, 2021

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KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Gort posted:

Nah, I'd love it if the game told me exactly how much I'd get from a given district and what the optimal placement for it would be, instead of me mouse-overing the entire region for the optimal city site.

? Is that not what the tiles that get highlighted when you go to place a district are?

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