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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.


Lol, usually those statements aren't quite so on the nose. There's no way a PR/marketing person saw that before it went out.

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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

One of the driving impetuses behind Arena is to let Wizards capture the secondary market spending. Players of non-rotating formats have already proven they're willing to spend more to play than Standard players, they'd be stupid not to try to capitalize on these spending habits.

Is going about this in the most ham-fisted way possible the right way way to go about doing so? Probably not, but it's pretty funny.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

You announce the spell, pick the target, then pay costs. It goes onto the stack, when it tries to resolve it sees it has no legal targets still on the field and fizzles.

I think it's a bug, but I'm not 100% on that.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

I wonder if colored artifacts as a normal thing won't lead to the removal of enchantments as a whole. The only difference between a colored artifact and an enchantment is that one can be removed by red and green (and white) and the other by green and white. All you need is some sort of cursed equipment for pacifism style effects and the card type is completely redundant.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Look Around You posted:

I feel like they're different enough. Artifacts can tap for abilities, enchantments not so much, so the design space seems different even if they're tied closer to a color identity than normal artifacts.

One having a strictly more limited design space than the other doesn't seem to me to be a compelling reason to keep them both, especially as, as Witching Well shows, artifacts don't have to tap.

Panderfringe posted:

There have been colored artifacts for years now and enchantments are still around

Not like this though. There's been an uncommon cycle in M20, a rare cycle in Rav3, a mythic cycle in Kaldesh, a rare cycle of enchantment artifacts in Theros, an handful of (mostly creature) card in New Phyrexia with Phyrexian casting costs, and then you're back at Alara.

Now, I'm not saying they're going to do so, but if they came and said they were getting rid of enchantments to reduce complexity I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be less surprised if colored artifacts on a large scale are less popular than artifacts have been historically and they walk the whole thing back.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Lone Goat posted:

there's only been 120+ coloured artifacts and THAT'S WHERE I DRAW THE LINE

130. 86 of which are from Alara, where they were the gimmick. 5 of which also enchantments, so you're looking at 39, 12 of which don't actually require colored mana to cast. Versus the 1700+ non colored ones.

Don't be disingenuous, in any previous set these'd been enchantments. They've been quite open that they see colored artifacts as a potential solution to the power level issues that plague artifacts, and they've similarly admitted that artifacts and enchantments aren't particularly distinct even before this change, but I haven't heard any proposals to address this.

Face it, in a game who's biggest issue is being hard as hell to learn, having redundant card types just doesn't make sense.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

It's a real awkward phrasing that boils down to 'everything but him', but I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd go that route, it's not like intentionally legend ruling him would be a winning play.

E: come to think about it, you still can legend rule him, you just get 1 trigger instead of 2.

Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Sep 4, 2019

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

One piece at at time...

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

To stop confusion over if it only counts things that are both or not, while being less wordy than having two separate clauses.

By the wording it should have a * and the physical card probably does, though someone asked Maro a while back why its sometimes a * and sometimes a 0 with +1 for whatever and he was like 'there's no difference, its just down to whoever designed/templated it.'

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

It means games play out differently so playing one deck doesn't get monotonous so fast.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

From the smash Bros thread:


:D

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Dryad Arbor, but with a Plains as the illustration. C'mon Wizards, go deep on some promos.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The 4k solution came first, though it's hard to think the transformation from 'T$4KS' to '$T4KS' to 'Stax' wasn't influenced by the presence of smokestack.

SMenendian on the deck in '03 (with a lycos email address).

Wizards.com article from '05.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Framboise posted:

Magic/Pokemon/YGO TCG stuff is strangely smack in the middle of the cashier's around here.

It's both an easy impulse buy and easy to steal.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

rabidsquid posted:

i don't count people that just go to events because unless you think wizards has been lying about this for basically ever only a very small percentage of the player base go to FNM let alone tournaments.

Lots of people do think they're lying about this, and that kitchen table players don't really exist. It's kinda sad.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

If you're drafting on MTGO you're not doing it to build a collection, so it's impending death doesn't really matter. Can't speak to the population, though I have to imagine the people still there are pretty serious about drafting.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

The Deleter posted:

2) Theme boosters are new to me. Are they worth it in general? I imagine just buying one and slapping some lands in counts as a draft, technically.

No. They have 1 rare and a mound of commons and uncommons of the same color. They really just exist so when Billy says "I want more cards for my green deck" there's a thing to get him.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Tubgoat posted:

Leaving aside my near-certainty that WotC would for sure do this, wouldn't it run afoul of even the U.S.'s extremely lax and never-enforced laws regarding fale advertising?

Yes, saying specifically that they could contain something and having none that do would be actionable, even in the US.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Tubgoat posted:

Now THERE'S an interesting idea for getting vital reserve list cards to would-be eternal format players. Obviously not Aeolipile.

They already did it, back in Zendikar.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Owlbear Camus posted:

... class-action suit.

Lol.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

A big flaming stink posted:

Yeah, that's what I planned on doing. Since I'm white, I figure reporting it stolen is unlikely to make things worse, but I have extremely low expectations on that front

I mean, they aint gonna look for them, but if someone asks "did your cards/property really get stolen", having filed a police report can give some credibility to your statement.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

fadam posted:

We definitely need some sort of system where posters in this thread can weigh in on cards prior to release in a public, easily sortable way. Whoever predicts the impact of the most cards correctly gets to be king of the thread.

I thought that's what Thunderdome was for.

Would love to see a this thread vs arena thread tournament.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

This is the highest rate of standard bannings uhh, ever, right?

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Dom is Here posted:

Someone help with this pioneer thing and explain if its good for a returning player too poor to get into modern (me)

Maybe

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Possibly this'll lead to people preemptively dumping their fetches and they'll be a cheaper pickup for a day or two.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Rinkles posted:

what was the main issue with extended?

Nobody liked it / only played it when forced to.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Huxley posted:

You're probably never getting better mana than Shocks and Checks in this format, and if you look at Modern decks from SCG last week, there are a LOT of $150 decks with $600 manabases.

There are certainly some exceptions to that rule (Jund is a $1200 deck with a $600 manabase), but a playset of Blood Crypt is never going to cost $200.

If it takes off cards will get expensive like any other in-demand format. Nothing individually will be as expensive as fetches as nothing goes in as many decks as they do, but lands will still be the most common denominator and will still be expensive.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

Started playing this weekend. Is it frowned upon to post extremely noob questions in this thread?

Everything is frowned upon in this thread. :justpost: and don't let the rampant negativity drive you away from the game.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Frontier was never official and existed basically to offload Jace, Vryns' Prodigies. Historic is the non-rotating format for Arena because it's ~*~special~*~.

This new format announcement is causing people to hammer scryfall apparently, it's not moving very fast.

Fuckers.

Historic is the same poo poo every digital card game does. It's weird they're not trying to make it a thing in paper but otherwise it's hard to give wizards flak on that one as they're just following the leader, and likewise will do as little as possible to try and get people to play it.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

WoTC hosed me sorely, I bought the Spellslinger starter kit. Red and white decks.

I have a question about Leyline of Combustion. So the card description says "Whenever you and/or at least one permanent you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, Leyline of Combustion deals 2 damage to that player" - my question is, since summoning a creature is a "spell" (yes?), does this card trigger when the opponent summons a creature? Is summoning a creature a spell targeted at the player? When does this trigger otherwise? Are creatures permanents or is that Planeswalkers?

But your question gets me to the next thing -- where the gently caress do I go from here in terms of getting more cards/decks? I don't have time enough to be paying regular visits to the game store, I'm just playing with my girlfriend and a friend who used to play a long time ago.

Creatures are spell yes, but they don't target (only things with the word 'target' target) so they don't trigger it. Some creatures have abilities that do target which would, but those are separate from the summoning.

Lands, creatures, artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers are permanents, but only once they're in play. They're spells while you're casting on them but before they're in play (on the stack).

Not a popular opinion around here, but if you're interested in building decks I recommend getting a deckbuilders toolkit from your game store / big box store / Amazon. The cards are only good for casual play but it gives you a decent amount to gently caress around with a comes with a nifty enough box.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

Thanks I think I get it. I was eyeing the Rookie decks from CardKingdom as well as Battledecks from there. But I'm going to keep chugging along with these two decks until I no longer have any questions about the cards or their interactions.

The battledecks are a very popular second step, I'm not familiar with the rookie decks.

While it doesn't help with individual card interactions, spending a little bit playing Arena is probably the best way to get a handle on the technical aspects of the game structure.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

No formats will die any more than vintage and legacy already are dead, people invested in a format (emotionally and financially) aren't just going to stop playing, even if competitive support dies (competitive support for modern will die, if this takes off [it will take off because it has competitive support]), unless only grinders play modern and everyone actually hates it, as I've seen alleged from time to time.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

ilmucche posted:

It's frustrating since I love modern for all of its brokenness. It's almost as though MH1 was a ploy to milk modern players one last time before announcing this. They wouldn't be that cynical would they?

More I wouldn't trust them to be that organized.

E: they don't give a gently caress about legacy. In their eyes, there's no problem.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

vegetables posted:

I wonder how many RL cards would never be reprinted anyway regardless of the list because of how clunky and bad they are; like I have a Xanthic Statue and don’t exactly imagine WotC is cut up it can’t reprint that

Basically all of them? Wizards isn't in the habit of reprinting ancient poo poo anyways and especially not the janky-rear end rares.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Prices for out of print cards will stabelize where they will based on the demand curve, reprinting one card makes a different card the rarest one in the deck and drives it's prices up.

Every product has an opportunity cost, I don't think it's even possible for WotC to put out something that has enough modern staples in a high enough quantity to crash the prices that would be of any interest to anyone once all the cards are worthless.

E: nobody actually gives a gently caress about reserve list cards. Whatever money wizards could make off of howevermuch of a resurgence would come to vintage/legacy (and I doubt it would be a huge one) would be dwarfed by whatever they make off a standard set. Very few magic cards have any value as a collectible, and new moxen/duals wouldn't. Demand for (and thus value of) cards comes from competitive / edh viability. Without a competitive scene for reserved list reprints they'd crash faster than some kind of fast crashing machine.

EE: also, legacy/vintage are more-or-less fully supported on MTGO, which helps ameliorate the price issue and solves the finding people to play with issue, and I've never gotten the impression they were all that popular there.

Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Oct 21, 2019

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Tubgoat posted:

Nominally, for this to be a wacky non-shadowy coincidence, would mean it was the one thousand four-hundred and eighty-eighth unique Magic: The Gathering card to exist? Juxtapose comes immediately after.

Not unique, they're numbered alphabetically by set. This one really is a wacky coincidence (or someone had some amazing foresight back in the day).

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Monospaced, like the kids do:

Play Standard

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Somebody PM me when it's spoiler season again.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Perry Mason Jar posted:

Feeling overwhelmed by the different formats. What do you guys like to play?

If you're just playing with your friends don't bother with formats.

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Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Wasn't jitte in one of the theme decks? Kamigawa was before my Magic time.

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