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nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Pillow Armadillo posted:

Honestly, don't get too excited about suddenly unlocking the understanding of other people. You'll quickly find that most of us, on average, are "a little retarded" and just rolling with it

I've come to terms with the poo poo I just can't do(large gatherings or explain myself in a way that helps(there's more)), the things I can only do while drinking(gently caress you paperwork), and the things I do well at. I'm reliable and a pretty good dad, which nets me enough points that ppl cut me slack for being weird or just not often putting effort into talking to ppl.

Moths ago 'gifted' classes were mentioned. I was in them for a few years before quitting. It was lame unless we were doing logic/thinking puzzles and I could just check out books of them. But I was also in special education because I didn't do classwork or homework often and was fine coasting on test and quiz scores and just having bad grades that were passing. They had me on a bunch of ritalin, so I spent the school day hyper-focused on whatever I wanted. Mostly working on ideas of how to do things when I was home. I had notebooks with Lego plans or whatever else my brain wanted. But I gave up early in middle school and only tried when tested just to make my point that school was pointless for me.

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nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Ritalin was horrible for me, I only focused on what I wanted so they upped the dose over and over until I didn't bother to pay attention to anything I wasn't interested in. A couple shots of bourbon and I'm set to focus on other things tho.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Cast_No_Shadow posted:

Thank you for the information I appreciate it.

The /r/aspergers subreddit is a decent spot to get info IMO. It's one of the few decent corners on the site and has genuinely helpful people and a threads with good info on how some foundations are hosed up and some aren't.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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signalnoise posted:

I recently had a neat interaction with someone who was really into poetry and wanted my view of poetry from the perspective of someone with autism, because their understanding was that people with autism like "denotation and literalism". Keep in mind here, this is all my personal experience, but I'd like to see if it resonates with others here. After explaining first that I don't have all the answers, people are different and I'm not some general autism representative, I went ahead and explained that for me, it's not a problem of understanding metaphor and imagery and stuff like that, it's that denotation and literalism are coping mechanisms for the problem of miscommunication. Basically, if you keep getting misunderstood, it's easy to try to fall back to denotation because that should be a pre-established common ground. We tried an exercise with me writing poetry, but I just couldn't get anything out in that classic poetry style. This changed once I expressed my frustration with the exercise, and was like "this just isn't my style, I can do some other kind of poetry like rap lyrics or something but not this". Finally, they made a very direct request regarding what they were looking for: 3 concise sentences with no wasted words, trying to express as much meaning as possible through those words by using imagery and metaphor, and without making a rhyme or anything like that. Just 3 sentences. With those clear instructions, I made something that they said was beautiful, like really impressive.

I am interested to know the thread's thoughts on that. I could see explaining the difficulty with communication as just being this constantly shifting set of rules, and once I know the rules, it's not hard to follow them, but the problem is just in never being told the rules. Explaining it to people as "everyone else got to learn the game before we started, but I have to learn the game as we're playing it" feels somewhat accurate to me. How about you?

I'd def agree from my perspective on the fall back. It really shouldn't be hard to directly communicate but even when being direct and literal people seem to try to infer things and it pisses me right off. I hate concise statements I make being followed with "what do you mean?"... I loving said what I meant. things like 'I don't care' especially bug me when people try to read into it.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Organza Quiz posted:

Interestingly I think there has now been research showing that autistic people aren't inherently more likely to be trans than the general population, we are just more likely to both realise it and do something about it due to being less influenced by the people around us.

Don't know how they'd test for something like that but it seemed true to me so it must be right!

I'd kinda think it's something to do with not having the compulsion for societal standards. I think I always got along better with females just because there is less expectation, then later in my teens I had a mix of that and them wanting to get poo poo going and really it's more interesting to look at a pretty face during a conversation than talk to some dude. Still, dunno if that is sensible or if I just think it makes sense.

E:

signalnoise posted:

I'm not the right person to ask about this kind of fashion, but I will absolutely keep favorite brands when it comes to particular things like having scratchy tags around the neck, anything that clings too tightly, really lots of general comfort, but if there's something that sticks out, that product is dead to me.

I am picky as gently caress for pants/jeans. I only wear Lucky jeans kuz for some reason everything else feels rougher, doesn't bug me if I'm going to work, but I just can't be comfy unless it's those. It very well could be a psychosematic thing.

nesamdoom fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Dec 11, 2021

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Organza Quiz posted:

ITT autistic people overly seriously overanalyse a funny joke

Lol, just this thread?

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Pththya-lyi posted:

"You can't be autistic, you're not like Rainman/Sheldon from TBB/my five-year-old nephew."

:rolleyes:

E: The worst one is "you don't look autistic." What does "autistic" look like?

I was told by an ex's friend that I'm not autistic. :rolleyes:She knows kuz her son is... I felt bad that he's probably been raised hosed up.

I've also heard the 'look autistic' thing and it's always made me really want to be a dick to the person and make them feel stupid.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


FilthyImp posted:

Ah, my favorite time of the year, when I open a present and fight the urge to say "Thanks, this is a really cool thought. But, uh, please return it and get your money back because I don't think I'll use it much"

Got good when people realize I just want a pair of jeans. Don't need anything more and could go without. for like 5 years I get(save for when I didn't have a kitchen and I got an air frier) a pair of the prefered jeans I wear and that's awesome. This year one of my nieces got me a set of stuff for beards(i really dig my mutton chops) and that poo poo is cool as gently caress and my mum got me some pants. Oh and a few years ago I got a baby carrier for my bday, which was great kuz my boy was born 3 days before.

I def get the thing tho, I just have made a point to people that I'd rather get poo poo I can really use or nothing. Not in a dickish way, but I don't want ppl wasting money on poo poo that I don't really have use for. I do love the gently caress outta this air purifier tho

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Pththya-lyi posted:

I got an adult coloring book. Adult coloring is supposed to be relaxing but it fills me with anxiety. I have to pick the right colors, if I pick the wrong ones the picture will be ruined :negative:

You ever try to intentionally colour things wrong? It's a bit nice for me so I don't wonder which blue the ocean is, it is 3 shades of red now. I got used to doing everything with just reds and blacks because then it only mattered to me that the shade selection was right. I still sorta cringe when my son is colouring and thanks to countless hours of watching Paw Patrol I know he doesn't need the blue marker to colour Rubble, but he is gonna loving do it. Also tho, I've seen Spiderman in green which was pretty good. I think me using the wrong colours was a way to fight against my form of the anxiety you mentioned.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Organza Quiz posted:

Ohhh that is really insightful. I'm definitely the first type and that's a very useful way to think about the other type of person I think.

I like the well analogy. Everything adds to a well either clean or dirty water and basically not muddying it is the best way to go. Sometimes there's not a good choice to be made and it shouldn't be such a problem. But I feel like a dick for small things like I have a 3 month VIP pass to the plasma place I go to so I can cut to the front of the waiting line everytime I walk in but in 3 months I've only used it 3 or 4 times kuz I don't like to unless I have time limits to deal with and get to other things. But, I generally try to be nice so I held the door for some people the other day and let them go in before me, but then I cut them all in line and felt like a jerk even though I could have just went in first and not needed my pass to be ahead of them.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


cinnamon rollout posted:

Anybody here ever take the supplement NAC? Some people in the autism community have ssid it worked like magic for irritability that they didn't know they had, and I guess I trust you guys more than reddit and was going to hear some thoughts

How loving septic are the people in reddit autism? I've never heard of that stuff but from looking it up I can already see it would do nothing for being genetically different mentally. Seems a lot like saying laxitives cure depression because being constipated sucks. I know what works for autistic people I know, alcohol. Maybe not a bunch but a beer before a social does a good bit. Being Neurologically set differently isnt something that can be fixed by things. effort and training to understand NTs is all there really is.

E: I don't like Autism subs very much, the asperger's one is pretty good but i gave up on the others kuz they keep trying to 'cure' poo poo or supporting ppl that do.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


A Festivus Miracle posted:

I was a relatively high functioning ASD kid and I was a total goddamn nightmare as a child. You parents of ASD people, good luck. Care, nurturing, and some good therapy really, really loving helped as a kid. Also, please keep in mind that other disorders (like ADHD or childhood depression) are very often comorbid with ASD, and its pretty common to have both.

For actor chat, my only autistic representations I kind of liked were Elliot (Rami Malek) in Mr. Robot and Will Graham (Hugh Dancy) in Hannibal. It's really, really loving hard to nail the mannerisms of someone with ASD for an actor, but I think those are the more faithful portrayals I've seen of someone with autism. It's a spectrum for a reason, no one autistic person is going to be like another.

I was super chill at home, but my school wasn't good at leaving me alone to just fill out assignments and read. And ritalin was the worst thing ever for me, they might have done well to give me a gummy in the morn so I didn't think so much that I got bored.
My daughter wasn't too bad, oddly her mum would call me and let me talk to her if she ever was upset and that sorted her out pretty well. She's never wanted therapy, but I'm the only one she knows that can understand why things bug her the way they do, so she's just gotten used to talking to me when things are hard to talk about with other people. We live in different states(most of the time), so I do my best to keep her from hating the world. Kinda poo poo, but she's always had at least me to talk to and her family there are really nice even though they don't understand her all the time. I am experienced enough to be able to explain things enough to her mum that it makes sense and we've done pretty good at raising a decent kid so far.
Therapy was really helpful for me, psychiatry less so. But I generally think therapy is good for most ppl. And definitely caring people, with enough patience to got get frustrated when they aren't sure what to do, and a good stable environment that helps with routine and comfort.
This is just what I think from where I'm at. Most of the ppl with ASD I've known were diagnosed with Asperger's before DSM5 merged it and made the spectrum, which I think really does more than trying to create categories. While I get that there's differences in how and how much some features of Autism present or affect different people, it's kinda poo poo to try to grade them and assign ideas on how their Autism should/would present itself, how to interact with them, or what expectations should be assigned to them.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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I just thought of something. Does anyone else use bracketing in text communication? Commas are sort of built in, but they are a pain and I think I'm the only one I know that will nest tangetial thought lines into parenthesis and I would love to know if something in my head makes me want to type things, sometimes, the way I'd write maths into a program or calculator(for example(not a decent example, but rather something easy) I'd be typing this and need to nest sidenotes in the sidenote(and then sometimes it also gets deeper(like at some point of time I'll hit having nested so much stuff, but it works to go back through my line of thought while typing when I proofread))).

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Camrath posted:

Anecdotal, but I’m autistic and do this all the time.

Also using /slashes/ for emphasis.

I actually dig that. Can I ask what decade your from? I think 80s influenced my stuff a bit from chat rooms and growing up with a pre-emoji text based communication.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


signalnoise posted:

I don't, but if you are talking to people that this works for, then I guess that's fine. I'll code switch between threads though. If you're looking for a specific reason why I wouldn't do that in any case, and what you could do instead, I could do that, but I wouldn't impose that or anything. The best way to communicate is whatever gets the message across most completely and without misunderstanding, so if that works for you, that's cool. I've always had a thing for understanding what instructors want from writing assignments, but also other stuff about written English, and it landed me an editing job now, and from that I can tell you that broadly understandable phrasing, style, and word selection will expand your audience, but if jargon is acceptable, it sure gets the job done faster.

It works out alright for me. It's a bit strange, but I think everyone I talk to is used to it and it seems to help me get things across to people.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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signalnoise posted:

Yeah I mean, some people talk funny, too. Same thing to me. I don't type in chat programs the way I would type up a post here anyway. My chats look dumb as gently caress and I mean that well beyond the dumbest poo poo I have on SA

example

[12:57 PM] gravy ruth: @Revan McAllister do you think sloppy seconds caused a lot of unnecessary suffering in the warring states period

:lmao:What??? I honestly hope that's an actual comment and I never know the context.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


ewe2 posted:

I didn't even recognize my meltdowns for what they were until well after the fact (last year), it was a shock. And knowing that no two neurodiverse people have the same levels and settings in their particular package of fun makes it more challenging to understand myself and explain that to others.

And only today my friend and I were talking about the "double empathy" problem and I was seeing it in terms of the bullying I got as a child in primary school which led me to relentlessly mask in high school to the point it caused me real issues where eventually I just kept melting down whenever I felt emotionally pressured and I had no idea why. It's taken all these years later to see that. So even I can't avoid looking at my autism without thinking of trauma and having difficulty working through that to the positive part yet.

(Also I use brackets a lot and I tend to proof-read and try to weed them out because I'll sprinkle them throughout a paragraph and it looks awful but it's the way I think).

One big thing I've told my daughter is to not gently caress with masking. I don't see the benefit of trying to fit in with people to lock myself into a situation where I have to put effort in to have people around me. I explained it to her and how it's better she only be around people that like her being herself and she not need to pretend around people.
Bullying for me lead to my propencity to push back. Iif I'm threatened I'll go right to initiating the violence I am threatened with, no point trying to talk to someone that wants to hurt me when I can just settle the poo poo right away and save time. i try to not argue with people, but some people refuse to not argue so I dive in and make a point and find out if they have anything to say or just are being argumentative. I also don't at all care that I have a small group of people I talk to regularly. I would rather only talk to people that genuinely care than have people pretend they like a pretend version of me.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


ewe2 posted:

I think my Sheldon revelation wasn't so much him (I used to like the show which is now something bizarre to me), he's an obvious caricature. He's really designed to divert your attention away from the other mean-spirited depictions of neurodiverse characters around him. On top of that, the show pretends that it's all rooted in a love of science when it's merely window-dressing for passive-aggressive gags about the nerds who seem to have won, so let's make sure their science doesn't amount to important discoveries or is vaguely abstract and unrelated to real-world concerns. I didn't watch an episode past the 5th or 6th season, the self-contradictions sort of got to the point where the gags themselves weren't worth the bleak self-hatred of its premise.

It didn't surprise me that there was a desire to believe in a Sheldon Cooper beyond the show, thankfully Young Sheldon was its own kind of disaster.

I've never known if Sheldon waw supposed to be autistic or if just they implied it. Either way they took it too far, and not just like on things than can be cherry picked. They max negatives pretty hard. Also, why the gently caress would he even want a roommate? He makes enough to chuck money when he wants so why the gently caress doesn't he have a single somewhere? It's worth watching in a jail without cable. Not much reason other than that. Atypical leaned hard into autism, but it was the premise. it's not gonna fit with everyone all the time but honestly I'd prob go chill with penguins if I lived an hour south. His friend was a great rep for how people should be though. Dude let him get away with extrensicities and just focused on being a good friend, he didn't cut him slack or anything and I liked the dynamic shown.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Pththya-lyi posted:

http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/2022/01/autism-checklist-of-doom.html

I bet most of you will recognize at least one of these experiences in your own life. Holy poo poo, is society bad to us.

:glomp:

This list is mostly appliciable sometimes or always. I love that it's not set in stone, because somedays are easier.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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signalnoise posted:

For me that's been because when you have more people to satisfy, it can feel like you need to find one way to act that satisfies all of them. Not only can this be a really big hangup because for me, for a long time, I ended up trying too hard to please everyone and felt like I couldn't be myself to the point that I felt like I didn't even know who I really was anymore, but also, you can't please everyone anyways, so I ended up routinely getting frustrated and disappointed. One of the harder things to deal with, which has been talked about in this thread, is dealing with "professional" types because it's like there's some expected way to act or something, whether it's doctors or whatever, and it's like you're trying to give the *right* expression for the amount of pain or whatever. If they wanna learn to deal with more people, it's gonna take practice, and it's gonna probably take some thought actively thinking about it IMO. But that's just based on my own experience. I dunno see what other people think too.

Practice/Experience goes a long way. I don't put much effort into fitting expectations and I just stick to being direct and limiting need to interact. In some settings it's ok to just pay attention and ignore the setting. I default to being quiet and polite in settings that I'm uncomfortable in just to minimize chances I say something that makes me look wrong. New jobs have always been weird and I just focus on the job and ignore things until I have a good comfortability with what I'm doing and the people I need to interact with.

I have a sort of suggestion for the trade school thing, if the setting might be awkward then some warm up things could help. I dunno how similar it'd be, but things like painting/art classes are a good way to get used to group things that are unfamiliar. That might just be a me thing.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Organza Quiz posted:

Yes, everyone masks to some extent, but autistic people have to work harder to look "normal" for whatever social situation they're in than neurotypical people to, and it takes a specifically heavy toll. Or I guess they just don't ever learn to do it and burst out with inappropriate poo poo all the time.

Or at some point get tired of it. There was only so much trying to fit in for me before I just was more comfortable being weird.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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impossiboobs posted:

When they don't say what they mean, but then are mad at you when you believe the words they say.
Second place is accusing ND people of lying because of whatever "tell" they would apply to neurotypical people like avoiding eye contact or over-explaining. But I think that one is just a personal sore spot as I was called a liar a LOT as a child and it never clicked for me until much later why.

I pretty much exclusively make eye contact only when lying. It's hilarious how easy it is to just say whatever I want. That's also a second thing, it's very easy to say things when I'm joking and sound serious. That's why I avoid being serious so noone has to get confused.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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I just realised I'm so autistic I think my friends like me. haha.My dad did, my brother and my son do, and i hosed up caring about the rest.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Bobby Deluxe posted:

As with so much autistic behaviour, it's seen as something you should have 'gotten over by now,' even if it was never acknowledged or recognised and you never recieved support for / training to combat it.

I kinda think that my daughter(and her mom on her and her own behalf) have used her diagnosis as a crutch so much that she never learned to metaphorically walk. She got pegged early on and I was 15 when I got mine, but other things might be in play also for how we came very differently to approach things. She has no ambition and her mum lets her do nothing to the point she's been considered truant every year of school since she was 12 while I just showed up and was isolated or sent home. But at her age now she is no where ready for life as an adult. At her age I'd lived on my own for awhile and had a decent(illegal thought) hustle or two going. While she avoids people because some don't like her and her mum is scared to let her have a social life I at her age had already learned how to keep some people close and others at distance socially. Her mum is happy to treat her like a child for her whole life and she's happy to sit around playing on a phone or tablet for the rest of her life. Life and people can suck, but I do not like the way she's been taught to not deal with things.

I dealt with a lot of bullshit before my diagnosis. A decade of amphetamines surely didn't help and them upping the dose when I paid less attention(easy way to tell the difference between not paying attention and not being able to is that getting someone spun out doesn't help when the person doesn't care. And in the case of someone prone to hyperfocus on things it becomes more problematic to give them amphetamines.) leading to a very persistant thing of me barely sleeping and having a latent addiction to amphetamines, which I managed to kick when I had something important to care about.

But, the point I've been trying to set up is that the whole 'getting over/used it' thing is pretty poo poo. I'm 36 and still am a weird dude. I still have things about me that are odd to most people and kinda funny to others(people that know me well get a kick outta some of the things I do/say because they know I generally also find humour in them), but I'm still not great at things and I normally don't tell people about me being autistic until there is some issue to justify it. I live in a world where it's still not understood and I've been told I'm not autistic so many times because I am smarter than the person saying it and they have anecdotal experience with one autistic person that isn't the same rear end me. It's a loving shame when they say their kid is autistic and they've not even learned that there is a spectrum.

I realized something though awhile back. I'd have done well in the military. I think anyone that can have taken prison as a positive probably would. Maybe I'd have been done good being taught structure before I got myself into trouble. But, maybe also I'm one of the kind of people that make decisions based on what I want for the future. I'd rather be miserable for a few months if it sets up my future. I've chosen some pretty poo poo ways to live to gen up money for where i wanted to be. I tried getting a court to give me a one year prison sentence over 2 years of probation kuz i didn't wanna waste time in the same situation that got me in trouble. 6 months in prison and I'd have left the state. I didn't get to take a nice deal and was stuck in a poo poo town where I couldn't get a job or do poo poo. The only job offer I had got shot down by my probation officer so I ended up moving to a farm someone I knew owned and rented it with no water and almost no electric and did that while carrying water back out of town to the farm just to be able to drink and eat, because there was no kitchen and I had to cook everything with boiling water from a kettle. But still no problem, I grew up to do the poo poo I had to do. I grew up figuring out how to make poo poo work. I didn't get to sit around and do gently caress all.

But, to violently drag myself back from tangential exposition. I got lucky to have life be hard enough that I learned to get by in it. That still did gently caress all for how I am basally. I met and dated a woman last year and explained pretty early that I'm me and such and my retisence to do things wasn't to do with her but rather my just not wanting to. We spent most of out time together walking around for hours or at my place. It's not the best way to go about stuff I think, but being around people that I don't want to talk around doesn't really make for good conversation. Neutral walk and chat is nice. I still am not great with people but I can sorta force myself through a bit. I tried to explain to my daughter that it doesn't get better but practice it gets easier. That's far from a 'got over it' thing.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Organza Quiz posted:

I watched a documentary with my partner last night about bees and I spent the entire time comparing the bees to ants and generally spouting ant facts from the ant thread, so honestly that thread is also autistic culture.

My wife and I have watched every documentary about birds we found. PBS did a DUCKumentary and i loving love that. I'm scared to watch insect docs kuz they are mindlessly efficient and I'd prob be stuck. If ya ever wanna look into a cool bird just look up the Harpy Eagle.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Dance Officer posted:

You should not be comparing your daughter to you. She is her own person.

lmao gently caress you

gently caress me because I didn't let problems stop me from being happy?

And if ya didn't know a parental aspect is preparing children for life.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Bobby Deluxe posted:



What you have is autistic trauma. Just because you had to learn those lessons and came out the other side, doesn't mean the way you learned them was right or that other people should have to go through that. You must be able to see that amphetamine abuse, criminality and wanting to go to prison are not healthy.

I guess it's like if you imagine someone who went further down a bad road than you did, learned harder lessons than you did, suddenly walking up to you and saying 'right, you need to become even more hardened because there are nightmarishly bad things out there and I've dealt with them, so come on, up you get." You'd resent them.

I'm in my forties and I'm only now starting to be happy because I'm unlearning all of the bullshit I picked up over the years just to fit in and be a part of society. You say she would be happy just being on her tablet all day. So let her be happy. You were forced to crawl through broken glass to get where you are and that's a hell of an achievement, but that doesn't mean that she does as well.

And the other thing to bear in mind is that she might not respond or survive the same way you did. Different people have different levels of functionality and severity. What you learned to fight and push through might break her. It's hard for survivors to understand that, because accepting that it might be bad for her is part of accepting that it was bad for you, which nobody wants to do.

I don't know, one of the things that did me the most damage was one of my parents really drilling into me that I have to be social, I have to be outgoing. I absolutely exhausted myself and made myself miserable in my twenties because of it. And when I did take time for myself, I felt guilty. It's only now I'm older and taking more time for myself that I'm actually feeling happy more days than not.


Several good points. Maybe I should just let her enjoy herself. I don't want to see her waste potential, but I guess it's her life.

To be clear I'm pretty happy things have been much easier for her. I don't think she's ready for some of the stuff life might(or might not) throw at her. I'll just have to help if I can if she needs.

You're right though on the bad things bit. There's not much sense wanting her to be conditioned to deal with things that aren't likely to be a problem for her.

I'm still gonna be annoyed about some stuff but prob best to not dwell on it. Thanks for the perspective.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Dance Officer posted:

You've gone way past that and internalised several really hosed up things as actually being good for you.

Also realise that your daughter is 15. She's not supposed to be independent yet.

She's almost 18. And having no plan for the future and a 6th grade education is probably a bad thing to be entering adulthood with. For a bit of clarity on my point I'll add that both of her brothers now live with their dad because my ex wouldn't make them go to school or do anything either. My anger is not really with my daughter as much as with her mum for massively failing to parent. The lack of ambition annoys me, but that's not quite the same.

Still I'd say that adaptability is a useful thing. You could say I internalised hosed up things incorrectly or I could say that I've continued to go on without letting setbacks disrupt my long term goals.

Violet_Sky posted:

I remember being 15 and having no idea of how to accomplish anything on my own. It's a normal part of life. The whole point of high school is to prepare children for post-secondary and independent life. You might think your daughter is unprepared but you are not her. She probably has her own fears and goals that she doesn't tell her parents about because they won't understand. (Teen logic, I know) Part of growing up is finding your own space to be you, away from your folks. Tablets and the like can help neurodivergent people find those spaces.

She's not gone to highschool. She hasn't been made to go to school since middle school. She's not 15 she's nigh 18. 15 was only mentioned as the age I was diagnosed.

Pththya-lyi posted:

nesamdoom, you sound like one of those people who goes "Well, I was spanked as a child and I turned out fine!" when they're struggling with some major problems. It isn't your fault you've been mistreated and traumatized in the past, but that doesn't mean what happened to you should happen to other people.

That isn't to say that your daughter's phone use is not without its problems. Online bullying and cancelling are risks for all social media users, screen time may affect her sleep habits or grades, etc. I think it's reasonable to try and help her find things to do that aren't online. For instance, I find that I am more engaged with the people and things around me when I am knitting than when I am on my phone or computer: the repetitive motion is a good stim, but it usually doesn't suck me in like the screen does. Are there any hobbies that your daughter might like to try? Drama classes can help autistic people communicate better with neurotypicals, sports can build coordination, crafts are a good stim, books tell us stories that help us process the world around us. All these things have communities associated with them that may provide your daughter with IRL friends. I wouldn't try to force her to do something she hates, but it's worth thinking about.

I don't think bad things should happen to her. But I think she should have a concept of things like cleaning up after herself, being able to cook or order food, or do anything really. Lacking the basics of being able to do these things doesn't line up with her diagnosis. She could micro some ramen but it's easier to just complain until someone does it for her.

I'd be fine if she was using her phone to communicate, but I've not see her really use it for anything but having a bunch of accounts on games so she can team up with herself. And I tried getting her to take art classes because I figured she might like an environment that she should be comfortable in but couldn't get her to go.

There's years worth of stuff that doesn't come across well with me explaining them partially.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Pththya-lyi posted:

I think you should share your concerns about your daughter's future with her and offer your support. If she was under your roof you'd be well within your rights to set rules she has to live by if she wants to stay, especially if she were younger. (I didn't pick up on her being almost an adult). But people don't change unless they want to. Trying to force a change most likely won't accomplish anything but putting a strain on your relationship. I understand it's hard to detach yourself from your worries for her: she is your child and you obviously care about her. But you can't make that change for her -- you can only control your own actions and reactions. Again, unless she is being exploited or abused, or unless she is not getting basic needs like food or shelter met, I do not think you should make a move beyond an offer of whatever support you are comfortable giving. Otherwise, for the sake of your own well-being, please don't take responsibility for your daughter's behavior or how her mother chooses to parent her.

That trying to deinvest in feeling responsible at this point has been rough. I'm mostly settled to just try to help if she wants later on, but for now I'm out of ideas that would benefit her unless I win a lottery.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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King Baby posted:

I I was able to get a one bedroom apartment with the help of my therapist. Within a year I working a full time job and no longer needed the support of my parents who were honestly holding me back with emotional baggage. My mother constantly told how worthless I was but wouldn’t let me leave cause she wanted government money..

That's kinda what I hoped for my daughter. Her mum has been living off of her ssdi checks her whole life and I don't think she wants to have to lose that. If the girl-me would get her own place I think she'd really enjoy the freedom of it as long as she keeps up with the taking care of herself part.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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King Baby posted:

My son is 7….Okay, I see where the 15, 18, confusion of nesamdoom‘a daughter came from. I apologize for contributing to that confusion too.

I'll throw apology in too, I mentioned an age and then started comparing ages that were different without being clear. The context was in my head more than explained.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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King Baby posted:

He just went in the bathroom where the cat box is and closed the door. This was a trick to get me off the floor, so he could lead me to the kitchen to get more crackers and juice.

That's a pro move.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Pththya-lyi posted:

I'm not usually a put-poo poo-in-my-mouth kind of person, but I am a rip-stuff-into-tiny pieces -- mostly leaves and woodchips -- and a play-with-jewelry kind of person. Eventually I found knitting and that is a good stim for me. Also I learned to flap again after discovering the neurodiversity movement and it owns bones (try it sometime!) And of course I'm a typical phone-addicted Millennial. But it's hard, finding the right sensory diet. My husband tried to get me to use worry beads years ago, but they were just too bulky and awkward to carry around. I know a lot of people use silicone chewy necklaces to satisfy their urge to bite, but YMMV.

First: I know that they are for the most part kinda gross, but candy necklaces were such a cool thing to just always have a thing to nibble. I replaced that with smoking and then eventually vaping. But, the chewy stim was there always even when I was just killing juicy fruit on a constant.

Second: I never did a flap so much, but maybe it's similar in tension relief to always having yoyos. A weird bit of that is when I was younger my mum told me that my habit to play with yoyos when I didn't have them was something my dad did when they were kids.

Third: Sensory diet is an interesting term I've never heard/seen. It kinda makes sense to group things. Like mine would be low on auditory, but constantly require active motion. Video games work well for that, but also despite my wanting to avoid contact I don't have a problem with some sports like basketball where it happens at a minimal level frequently.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Violet_Sky posted:

My sensory overload only comes out when my anxiety/depression gets bad. Or when I'm in a movie theater. Someone on youtube mentioned that movie theaters overstimulate them (idk if they were neurodivergent) and I was like "Yes me too actually." I always thought that thing about movie theaters was some Weird Thing I had but its probably related to neurodivergency somehow.

I'm weird on sensory overload. I love carnivals. Blairing music and flashing lights never bothered me as a kid or teen or adult. My son has a light up sword that cycles colors flashing and at night it starts really bothering me if it's in my perepheral vision. I can't stand being in a room full of people talking. I can sit at the bar and have dinner and a few beers while reading and I'm fine, but people moving around near me is more bothersome. Also, some stuff seems hyper specific to like the wheel of a cart squeaking or just fuckoff brightness like some stores in malls have that's like a super sunny day when it's snowy and just light is reflected from so much that it's too much. Other people seemed to never notice. I actually have several mall related things. The stores that pump scents through the venting make me walk all the way out of my way to go around the middle section to get to the store on the otherside or I gotta slowly breath out from my nose for 15 seconds and rush by the noxic(toxic noxious) bit.

Is there a thing for when its sensory but connected to like scanning the area? Like if someone is walking towards me I pay attention until they aren't gauged to be meaning interaction or harm? I think anxiety plays with this quite a lot.


Cloacamazing! posted:

My results are in and I have... half an autism? "Autistic traits with current exclusion of autistic spectrum disorder and high likelyhood of autism spectrum disorder" is what it says. The way my therapist explained it to me, some of my traits (social stuff, mimic, apparently my voice is kind of monotone sometimes and generally a bit strange) fit, while others, mostly related to specific interests, don't or don't fully fit. I don't have any interests that are completely out there, I don't talk incessantly about the interests that I do have, I follow along with conversation even if it bores me, stuff like that. She suggested that some of this might be because I've learned early on not to do these things.

Stuff like social cues doesn't come naturally to me, but I've learned the rules for years now and can handle any familiar situations like that. Same for reading faces and apparently empathy too? I was honestly kind of shocked to find out that for other people, empathy doesn't work in the "consciously think about how you would feel if this happened to you, it's probably similar for the other person" way. Makes me feel kind of creeped out by myself if I'm being honest.

A lot of typically autistic things like sensory overloads, stimming, etc, only seem to happen for me when I'm tired. Normally, going to the supermarket is not a problem, but I once went after a therapy session and I must have been really exhausted from that because all the sounds just came crashing down on me. Is that a thing for anybody else? My voice apparently gets more monotone the more tired I am too.

This sounds like being autistic and having went through life figuring out how to go along. I generally feel pretty tired after therapy because I invest in it and sometimes that's the most I put into really feeling anything negative or putting much thought in. Being monotone is kinda funny sometimes to me because I can say insane things and people have to figure out if I'm joking unless they know me well and have already figured out how to tell by the way I word things. Good job on learning social cues. Lots of neurotypical people can't even pick up on things that are noticable. I also think the empathy is kinda weird. I hate saying 'oh that sucks' when someone has bad news, but if I don't rationalize it from comparing then I just don't normally know how else to respond. If my friend's dad died I'd know kinda how they feel, but it would take work to understand why they are bothered by something like not going to a reuinion. Then it's impossible for me to understand why people care about people that I don't know having interactions. My wife used to get very mad because she'd tell me some story about people I didn't know that recently had something happen between them and I'd tell her I didn't care. I got better at letting her finish the story then pretty much changing the subject kuz I still didn't care if someone she knew in highschool was mad at someone she knew in highschool that I never met and she doesn't even talk to anymore.

Half an autism is hilarious and just that phrase sounds like Asperger's.
Also, I've spent too much of my life with birds not to like Cloacamazing

Quorum posted:

Unfortunately, the ASD diagnostic criteria were written for children, and pretty crudely at that. They fail to fully consider the internal experience of autistic folks, and they tend to miss people who made it to adulthood without a diagnosis simply because they necessarily built up an array of coping skills and masking strategies along the way. That sounds like you, to me, although IANAD.

When a Dr met my daughter around 3 he asked her mum bout the family history and she mentioned mine and that did a lot for confirmation. He already had her pegged, but with my history it added confirmation. Autism really hasn't a long history of study and definitely the adaptable coping and masking makes it hard to have the ability to look backwards. Maybe someone was weird/execntrict or maybe they were autistic. maybe they were great at maths or maybe they were autistic. maybe they were brilliant or maybe they were autistic and just processed things a way others didn't and figured out something new. The going back in time to say 'this/that' person... that's such a poo poo thing. My son's mum had a cousin that definitely was(he was diagnosed and I'm not pretending to have a degree) and he was still far different to my father, my daughter, or myself even though similar. That's prob just him being raised by a bad parent also. Seriously, let your kids eats food.

ok i'm going to prob get more tangential so i'll gently caress off now. Prost.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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DiHK posted:

My son was diagnosed ASD when he was 2. At the time he was non-verbal. He is almost 7 now and is pretty functional and communicative but still clearly ADS to people who know what it looks like (and fooling the others into thinking he's just eccentric). My life has been filled with little epiphanies ever since. RAADS-R gave me a 165, but so many of those questions were either too vague or not adequately answered by the selections given so I think that score may be trending high. I took it for funsies though; I and my wife have concluded that our son's ND is a joint genetic effort.

I'm 44 and I grew up on the Gulf Coast (ie: Deepest of the US South with every stereotype that implies (I loving love nesting parentheticals, BTW)). There was no detection or support.

Like Nesandoom I dealt with a lot of poo poo. I have PTSD from these experiences, developed some Intermittent Explosive Disorder along the way. Persistent Drive for Autonomy seems pretty spot on too (thanks!). I make slow progress with CBT, self medicate with pot for focus and anxiety, need to find a new shrink and address the celexa that I've been on for entirely too long. My younger brother started with ADHD/ADD in the 90s but beyond brain hosed by the meds he got along with his own life traumas.

Regarding comorbidities and medications has anyone experienced benefit from a full diagnosis (ASD/ADs)? Like, were there more applicable meds for the symptoms than the standard tool box of crap that just sorta but doesn't really work?

Feel like I've answered my own question.

We have been really lucky with my son's school and support. He started preschooling and several therapies at 4 and went from very little verbiage and eye contact to being very vocal, reading and mathing. Watching his developments and struggles has been informative. I know I said that at the top but I have a lot to say and learn itt.

The weird happiness from nesting aside, oddly relaxing to see. Honestly I dont think there's really anything for ASD. Stuff helps symptomatically, like Xanax works for anxious feelings about ppl if ya wanna hit the mall up. But so does smoking a joint.
I think the biggest benefit from having a diagnosis for me was clarity. Rather than wondering why I was always weird I had a sorta reason. It's still me being weird from my own life and interests, but the way I'm weird makes more sense.
It's pretty cool you've been able to steer your son in good directions and help him along.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Mischievous Mink posted:

In high school my writing was still so poor that I'd get to type some assignments on a computer and print it when everyone else had to handwrite, just because the teacher didn't have the time to try and decipher my chickenscratch. As an adult my handwriting isn't really much better, but because I don't need to do very much handwriting I can really slow my work down and manage to make it not horrible to read. When I had to write page after page of repetitive mind numbing schoolwork there was no time for me to slow down or put in unreasonable levels of effort on it.

It didn't help that I have really sweaty hands and it would smudge the poo poo out of my writing anyway, whether it was easy to read to begin with or not. Pretty irritating issue, but it's something that runs in the family so I don't think it's autism related.

Inventory/Parts tags are the only think I focus on making legible. everything else i just write and assume i have to read it later. Back when letters were still a real thing I'd focus to write to most ppl, my gf at the time had the ability to read my mess of writing and she didn't care so it was easier to write her. i had to teach myself cursive to write my gmum. i got a bunch of notebooks that are horrible to look in but i've been writing in them for a couple decades and it all is the same poo poo scrawly stuff.

I have a diff way to write where i do everything with straight lines and it is way better to read, but looks alil like i'm insane.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Jefepato posted:

So I was apparently diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder when I was around 10-12. I remember talking to doctors then, but no one actually told me about my diagnosis until I was in my early 30s and requested my medical records from the hospital for an unrelated(?) situation (I'm also bipolar, although I'm on medication now and it fortunately hasn't been a big deal since).

My mother claims not to understand why I'm upset about this.

Anyway, I never really suspected until I saw it written down, but I guess it wasn't a huge surprise? I was somewhere in college before I developed my social skills to a degree where I didn't seem kind of "weird," although I've never had a problem with eye contact in particular. I've gotten decent enough at handling myself in social settings (which is apparently called "masking"), but I still often can't make sense out of other people's emotional reactions. Life is a lot easier when I can talk to other nerds about nerd stuff. >_>

I pace around a lot. I think that might be part of my stimming, or something?

I'm pretty sure my dad is also on the spectrum, although he wasn't ever diagnosed (I know he had some issues at school when he was young). I've heard him complain about some of the same issues I have, like people not listening to exactly what I say and misinterpreting it.

I guess I'm lucky, though, since I don't really need much support and I can live just fine by myself. I'm an attorney working in document review, which is not a glamorous job but it's something I'm pretty good at.

My handwriting is...not pretty, but legible. I can barely remember how to write in cursive (aside from my own name) despite having practiced it in school, though.

That's kinda really hosed up. And gently caress yea pace all ya want, it's nice to the brain.

Cool it sounds like you've gotten on well enough.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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Bobby Deluxe posted:

I didn't find I was getting worse, I just found I was holding back symptoms less. My wife has noticed I've been stimming a lot more at home because it genuinely gives me a physical, emotional and mental boost.

I found processing some things harder, but mostly because I was still adjusting to my new limits. After breaking through the initial weirdness I found it easier to deal with things overall. But it was a little harder for a while I guess.

I think being diag'd as a teen sort of helped. I never held back things until I knew. I got to actively know how I was pretending to be like other people. Not that I bothered much, but like knowing what to dial and what to hold back in situations like dinner with (at time)partner's family really did help. Once I met my wife and then her family it got easier because they were ok with me just being quiet and avoidant most of the time. I have a weird thing with socks and only wear them with white on the right foot and black on the left foot, so I gotta buy them in groups that have both versions, and my father-in-law was the one that actually got it. MIL asked why I was wearing socks that didn't match and he just said it was because i'm weird. Accurate as gently caress.

I love that people are cool about me just being me. I had a miserable time growing up with schools giving me poo poo and I feel bad for my mum having to deal with them losing their poo poo all the time when I was just a quiet and well behaved kid most the time at home. Having to leave work because the sheriff's dept sent officers to a school because a 5 year old didn't want to take a nap... That's loving insane. I'm less hosed in the head than a bitch that seriously calls the loving cops on a kindergartener for not taking a nap. (fun bonus, my stepkids went to a school where that teacher was the principal. Wife wouldn't let me go anytime they had to talk to a parent.)

Sorry I took this long to get to the reply to your post. Stimming at home vs controlling it in public is a very relaxing thing. Small thinks like flipping a pen and tapping the ends gives my brain a rhythm to kinda click with and a lot of people can't stand it, but my wife got used to me a long time ago. So, while I don't think you should, and not saying you do, hold back when out of the home, I do like that you're being more comfortably yourself.

bees x1000 posted:

my autistic boy just turned 6 and he's finally decided to regularly use 'daddy' and 'mommy'. hearing those words in his voice is an indescribable feeling. I love him.

My son is almost 4 and I'm not sure on if he is or isn't yet. But I finally explained that my name is Masen, but he gets to call me dad when nobody else does. Hug the poo poo outta him everytime tho.

Hungry Squirrel posted:

My kid is having issues at school and at home. I'm pretty confident that it's an ADD thing, and we're working on getting an assessment and then resources for that. But, she's a tween, so she got sucked in to the neurodiversity YouTube shorts groups and has, accordingly, diagnosed herself with autism.

For what it's worth, my therapist has been telling me for over a year that she thinks some of my own problems are actually autism, not ADD, but I'm in my forties and I really don't care about getting yet another diagnosis; but I know this can be heritable, so I don't want to dismiss her out of hand. We went over some of the online diagnostic checklists (from reputable sites, honest) and what we learned is that I really do tick a lot of the boxes, severely, but that I don't see the same traits in her. She tells me that it all matches how she feels inside her head, but she tries not to show it. Getting an appointment for a neuro assessment is a huge challenge, and the wait times are all around nine months out, so getting her a real, professional evaluation is going to take a while.

With the ADD part, I've finally decided that whether she is or isn't formally diagnosed, the organization and coping skills recommended for ADD folks are probably also helpful for neurotypicals, so I'm just going to get some books and we'll work on those together, because it won't hurt (and lord knows I still need the help). Is that a reasonable approach with autism type materials? Because, sure, maybe she's just really good at masking, or maybe she's just a kid who thinks everything online is about them; but if the coping skills are useful for anyone, does it really matter?

As a follow on, what are some good books or websites or resources for tweens / tweens (and maybe also for me)? I saw the book mentioned a few posts ago, but I couldn't find other suggestions in the thread.

I don't think it's that much to get an evaluation. A proper one is like an hour long or so. Depending on the state it might be trickier with everything to get lined up. I'd say it's worth doing anyways. If you do get it then, yea you're not gonna need to really change since you'd have already been used to the world without knowing, but on the flip like you pointed with it being hereditary then you got a good reason to send her off on the test. Or skip yourself and just let her go if she's thinking it's a chance. It's a pretty chill thing from the 3 times I've done it. As far as ADD and Autism materials, I think any decent source will have useful poo poo that applies to everyone with or without. Conflict resolution for an autistic person isn't going to fail for a neurotypical person. I think it's just in how to understand the approaches to things.

nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

nesaM kiled Masen


Maybe y'all could help.

How can I defend myself from people telling me being autistic doesn't matter in misunderstandings?
I admit I was wrong initially, but my explanations dug me deeper and I only brought up being autistic because of the differences in me taking responsibility and others(plural) telling me the same poo poo I'm saying.
Now, I'm being told how autism works by people that aren't autistic and I'm just trying to understand why they are saying the same thing as me but don't see that we all agree on everything other than them not
understanding that knowing an autistc person doesn't mean every autistic person is the same loving person.

Am I wasting my time? Is there a viable way to explain? Should I just not care or should I try to keep failing to explain myself?

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nesamdoom
Apr 15, 2018

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whydirt posted:

Both parties are have shared responsibility for communication, but what that looks like is very context dependent. It’s hard to say more about your specific situation without knowing more.

That said, getting brain-splained from NT people sucks regardless of the other stuff.

I think I'll bail the gently caress back. I prolly won't do myself anything good by trying to help myself and just digging deeper/
Thanks for the input. Enough to make me chill and not lose my poo poo over stuff.

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