Nail Rat posted:

For those who have read everything, are Before Watchmen and/or Doomsday Clock worthwhile? I avoided Before Watchmen just because of fear it would tarnish the original, but I'm open to other opinions on it.

Steve2911 posted:

I enjoyed it but it has that same fanficcy vibe that accompanies all expansions on Alan Moore's work. I think I'll enjoy it more if I disassociate it from the comic and think of it more as a 'what if' story.

cptn_dr posted:

Reading the supplementary material and it refers to persistent techno-phobia. I've heard some people say that it's because of Doctor Manhattan, but I'd say it's equally likely to be because of the "accident" where scientists summoned vagina cthulhu into downtown New York as well as the old Manhattan Cancer scare.

Mercrom posted:

Also Veidt seemed pretty crazy, but believing what he did about the the imminent certain end of human life, it was obviously the right call.

Mercrom posted:

He's pretty consistent and against compromise but his views are not thought out. That's what I mean by saying he goes with his gut.l

KoRMaK posted:

Or Viedt turn himself into a manhattan type figure by going through the same process that manhattan did. Viedt had the machine for it, and he used it on Manhattan and his cat. Either way, I think Jeremy Iron's is playing a post IF subtractor subject character

Milo and POTUS posted:

What's the pun

The REAL Goobusters posted:

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I want to understand why you guys like it so much especially since I have a totally different reaction to it.

Nail Rat posted:

The consensus seems to be all the prequel and sequel stuff is bad.

feedmyleg posted:

Its called The Annotated Watchmen. It was included in the Watchmen torrent I and probably everyone else downloaded when I was 15, alongside the Sam Hamm script draft.

I looked it up when I reread recently too 😁

tin can made man posted:

Angela, convinced of Judd's complicity in the White Night or his family's in the Tulsa massacre, sets herself and Looking Glass into exposing him and destroying his legacy. By the time it's revealed that Judd is simply a historian collector and his indubitably not at all connected to white supremacy, the damage is already done. Looking Glass, tears undah dis mask, stands at Judd's grave to apologize "We thought you was a choad"

Taintrunner posted:

I get that it's the cool smart Internet poster guy thing now to poo poo on Alan Moore. But, frankly, he did a really loving incredible job with V for Vendetta and Watchmen, two of the most iconic graphic novels of the medium that made comic books into Graphic Novels - and there's people ITT making GBS threads on him instead of being willing to accept his work, as well as the potential of a AAA+ Hollywood team to build on that, even after DC's attempts of a prequel and sequel have absolutely ate poo poo.

Nail Rat posted:

There's a difference between making GBS threads on Alan Moore and pointing out a disconnect in how he wrote certain characters and his disgust at the reaction that portrayal got.

Rorschach is absolutely written in a way that it's very predictable many people would like him (in spite of being a deeply flawed person). Yet Moore doesn't want people to like him, which is stupid because of the very sympathetic backstory and his unwavering devotion to what he sees as right. And his nigh supernatural badassery.

Pointing this out also is different than suggesting I could do better than Alan Moore. Of course I can't do a tenth as well.

twistedmentat posted:

And Mongoloid seriously rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b-nFSUXcuM


Top Ten has some pretty good female characters, Toybox for example. When is someone going to adapt that?

feedmyleg posted:

Someone elsewhere pointed out that they saw a conspicuously blue dot in the sky during the Veidt scenes. Anyone catch that?

beanieson posted:

feedmyleg posted:

You know... the presence of sensitives in this world has never quite added up, especially taking into account Manhattan's superpowered uniqueness. There's been endless debate on the matter, but one theory I've never heard before is: might it be possible that their inclusion is just based on Alan Moore believing in ESP in real life?

Niwrad posted:

Can someone explain why Manhattan doesn't save himself at the end? Is it because it happened means it happens? I'm a little lost on that.

Wolfsheim posted:

Its not quite right though, is it? Like it apes the format of that issue as well as it could but Dr. Manhattan is still a man who makes mistakes and can be caught off guard by something like the cancer hoax or can become attracted to Laurie through a chance meeting or forget to give her breathable air on Mars. But it doesn't do the "hes only leaving his first girlfriend because he knows he will leave his first girlfriend" thing. It's like the writer became so fixated on that one bit where he tells Laurie he knows she's sleeping with Dan twenty minutes before she tells him that he decided to make his entire character and the entire show structured around that concept when it doesn't really...mesh?

I dunno, I've never seen Lost but it seems more like the guy just loves that closed-loop time travel idea and decided to do it becuase he liked doing it on Lost so he just kinda tacked it onto the time-is-relative character?

Skitz posted:

Emphasis added, because this is exactly why he's such a frustrating character. As other people have said, he's not a god, he's an observer. But he has agency, he just chooses not to use it. Ever. All he has to do to liberate himself from this weird hell he's in is make a loving choice that doesn't comply with what he sees as the future. But he won't and that's not who he is and I'm just speaking as a normal non-inter-dimensional human bean, so what the hell do I know.

Arglebargle III posted:

everyone can change the future you cyclones. otherwise can anything be said to occur at all?

Some people are doing the classic thing where they confuse lack of free will with total inaction

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Fun fact: free will doesn't exist in any fictional universe.

rich thick and creamy posted:

Re: Manhattan and predetermined course of action.

It's not that Jon can't change outcomes, it's that he has committed to this particular sequence of events because it has what he considers to be the most beneficial possible outcome (how he makes those choices is anybody's guess). I'm reminded of a bit in Rudy Rucker's Ware series where 4D creatures show up on Earth. One of the humans attempts to shoot them repeatedly but the creatures always dance out of the way. When the character asks why he can't shoot them, the human is reminded that the creatures exists outside of time and can see all the infinite branching paths from one moment to the next... and they simply choose to move forward in one of the millions of realities where the human missed. Jon has probably played the game of Earth a couple billion times. It's probably easier for Jon to explore a scenario if he tells everyone he *can't* change the future rather than won't.

rich thick and creamy posted:

You sound as if Manhattan somehow lost the ability to lie in that intrinsic field generator.

quote:

Upon moving into a bigoted neighborhood, the scientist father of a persecuted black family gives a superpower elixir to a tough bodyguard, who thus becomes a superpowered crimefighter.

ThanosWasRight posted:

Well obviously, goons are white.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrOEL_rV8N4

Open Source Idiom posted:

I dunno. My overwhelming memory of the show is that they made the cop characters, particularly Angela, very cool. Yeah, they do bad things, but they're kinda awesome at it.

She's badass. So's Laurie. Even Lookingglass is a lovable loser with a sympathetic backstory. If they're meant to be so bad, why depict their actions so favourably? They're not unlikable. They're often quite the opposite, even when they're doing horrible things.