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sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Brony Car posted:

Eddie Howe is a saint or easily led or both.

:ssh:

Seriously, he's like Bizarro Woodward.

As great as Klopp has been for the club, having Edwards do his thing rather than a transfer committee or similar nonsense, has helped take the club to the next level (again).

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sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Corrode posted:

I wonder which WAG he has his eye on

All of them

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

oliwan posted:

New ADO Den Haag boss Alan Pardew wants to make Sheffield United midfielder Ravel Morrison his first signing.

lmao, he'll fit right in

What's his bird look like?

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

brasstassels posted:

silly season
Spurs will not buy anyone, but lol that right back has been our biggest weakness for years and nothing is even being considered to fix that still

There's an English right-back with Atlético Madrid that seems to be doing well, maybe Spurs should check him out.

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

vyelkin posted:

I've said it before but the thing to understand about Can (at least at Liverpool, I haven't seen him since he went to Juve) is that he has unshakable self-confidence and believes he's an amazing footballer, but he isn't. So he'll try dribbling around ten players and lose the ball, he'll try ambitious 50-yard through passes that go straight out of play, and he'll take ten long shots a game that fly into the stands. But like once every few games one of those things works and he looks like a top top top player for five seconds. You could make a great highlight reel of Can's occasional best moments, but actually watching him for a full game 90% of what he does is lose the ball and foul people.
Remember when Brenden Rodgers referred to him as "a Rolls-Royce" of a footballer? LOL.

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

trem_two posted:

https://twitter.com/SheffieldUnited/status/1213075695238307840
sounds like they're going to play him as one of the overlapping CBs

Yeah, there will be lots of overlapping alright with Rodwell - the physio and bandages, lol

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Bundy posted:

When Lingard has played well it's been at 10 or wide forward (rather than out and out winger).

Wasn't he pretty good as a #10 in the 2018 WC or I am confusing him with Sterling accidentally (not racist)?

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost
Potential good news for Ninpo and der Shovel?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jan/07/internazionale-in-talks-with-manchester-united-over-ashley-young-transfer

quote:

Internazionale are in talks with Manchester United over the transfer of Ashley Young, with the 34-year-old ready to accept a contract until 2021 with the Serie A club.

Young, who did not feature in United’s 3-1 defeat by Manchester City in the first leg of the Carabao Cup semi-final on Tuesday night, is out of contract at Old Trafford in the summer and has made 10 Premier League starts this season. Inter have held talks with United over whether they will have to pay a fee for the former England international and he is understood to be keen to reunite with former United teammates Romelu Lukaku and Alexis Sánchez under the former Chelsea manager Antonio Conte.

:confuoot:

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Gigi Galli posted:

Conte turns mediocre players in to good ones; he’s been doing it since he was at Juventus and even before at lower levels. This is exactly why I wanted him at Milan.

Is he a really good coach, good at man management, just adapting tactics to get the best out of his personnel (thinking of his switch to 3-5-2 with WBs at Chelsea) or all of the above?

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost
I'm sure I'm missing loads of other greatest hits from the past couple of seasons with Woodward at the helm but a few humorous anecdotes of how incompetent they've been since Fergie left IIRC:
  • Fails to sign Ander Herrera after negotiating what they believed were 3 of his lawyers. They were not and apparently he had no knowledge or anything to do with the guys who were negotiating with the club, resulting in them not signing him that window and having to pay his full buy-out clause the following season

  • Ander Herrera joins, becomes a solid midfielder for them then after 4 years, United delay renewing, leading to PSG making him an offer when he's out of contract. United go back and offer to double his wages but the ship has already sailed

  • Moyes loves the ol pubehead Fellaini and tries to buy him - due to aforementioned incompetence they end up paying several million pounds more at deadline day than they would've by just paying the buy-out clause earlier in the summer

  • Club record fee for Angel Di Maria - he has a couple of decent games, then gets injured, his form falters and his confidence is destroyed by van Gaal. Sold to PSG the following season at huge loss, resumes being a near world class player

  • Bastien Sweinsteiger is clearly past it, has 1 poo poo season then shipped off to MLS

  • Hires all around cheerful and legendarily frugal manager Jose Mourinho - subsequently refuses to entertain his expensive list of transfer targets. "The Happy One" unsurprisingly flames out, even EARLIER then his customary 3 years

  • Spends £50M on a guy named Fred who's probably worse than the guy named Fred who works in your office

  • Paid insane wages for Alexis Sanchez, he turns out to be insanely poo poo. Shipped off on loan to Inter at huge loss

  • Record fee paid for Pogba, United youth player they let go on a free years earlier. notoriously shady agent gets millions of pounds for the privilege. When he's not practicing goal celebrations or wacky social media hijinks, he goes back and forth every month whether he wants to stay in Manchester or go to Madrid/back to Juve.

  • Agree fee for their best player, GK David De Gea, to Real Madrid - due to issues with fax machine* :lol:, transfer not completed.

  • Sold primary established striker Lukaku who's been good for 20+ goals/season since coming to England. Refuse to replace him.

  • Marcos Rojo
I'm not even a supporter and these were just off of the top of my head :wtc:

* I'm still including this even though Madrid screwed up the fax because it's too good of a story

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Brony Car posted:

I don't remember this.

I think it was Fergie who wanted Jose but Bobby Charlton objected that he wouldn't fit in to THE UNITED WAY™. Who could've predicted it would later end so miserably?:iiapa:

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Jose posted:

newcastle breaking the bank by spending 50k to sign some 16 year old

Class

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost
Ernesto Valverde to the unemployment line is a done deal

https://twitter.com/fcbarcelona/status/1216846220578230273?s=21

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Sandwolf posted:

don’t know if I’d rather United gently caress up the deal for Fernandes or massively overpay for him

guess it doesn’t matter, it’ll be one or the other

whynotboth.gif

This is United/Woodward we’re talking about.

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost
Long but interesting article in The Athletic today about how players handle transfers, whether agitating for move by planting stories in the media, having an honest discussion with a manager about your career or being beholden to the ego of a billionaire owner. Of course you know Levy is going to be mentioned. I can c&p the whole thing or share a PDF if anyone wants to read it but this part in particular made me :lol:

The World’s Dumbest Welshman, Robbie Savage posted:

“I got what I wanted in the end, andI honestly believe that if I didn’t act the way I did, although I regret it now, I wouldn’t have got the move in that window and I’d have missed out on the chance of playing for Mark Hughes.”

A couple other fun bits:

The Athletic posted:

Some will be a much bigger pain in the backside. One agent tells a story about a Tottenham Hotspur player going out to training and kicking balls everywhere. Then there is the midfielder who gave his club’s technical director a mouthful of abuse that, realistically, few people would get away with in any other industry.
...

Players will commonly say something more controversial while away on international duty when there is no club media officer near them — Moussa Sissoko perfected the art while at Newcastle — and often claim afterwards that everything was somehow mixed up in translation. Of course it was.

...

William Gallas was clearly thinking along those lines in 2006. Indeed, it is hard to think of many examples of high-profile players who decided to take things quite as far as he did when he left Chelsea. The Frenchman was so determined to get out that he threatened to score an own goal or get sent off. Or at least that was the accusation Chelsea made in an extraordinary statement released after Gallas moved to Arsenal.
...

Social media offers another platform for players to get their message across these days and has made for some entertaining exchanges over time, whether that be Saido Berahino telling West Brom chairman Jeremy Peace that he would never play for the club again, or Darren Bent daring to take on Daniel Levy.

“Seriously getting p***** off now,” Bent tweeted in July 2009. “Why can’t anything be simple. It’s so frustrating hanging round doing jack s***. Do I wanna go Hull City NO. Do I wanna go stoke NO do I wanna go sunderland YES so stop f****** around, Levy. Sunderland are not the problem in the slightest.”

Bent was on Wearside a week later, which represents something of a triumph on his part given that he was taking on Levy, who has a reputation for being a tough negotiator at the best of times.

I'd almost forgotten about that mental Frenchman and his OG threat.

sticksy fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jan 23, 2020

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

tarbrush posted:

I'd read that if you're offering please

”‘Handing in a transfer request? That’s just embarrassing’ – how players really force their way out” posted:


There are many ways to force a transfer but one golden rule has to be observed. “What you must never do is get an owner angry. Once a billionaire owner says, ‘He’s not for sale’, you are dead. Deal. Does. Not. Happen.”

The agent who is talking to The Athletic represents some of the biggest names in the game. “I don’t mind a manager or a CEO saying ‘not for sale’,” he adds, smiling. “But if an owner says it, you ain’t going nowhere because their own credibility is on the line and they don’t want to be embarrassed.”

Upsetting anybody else is seen as fair game. Part of the game, in fact. It’s how transfers — very few of which are straightforward — get done. “If you can’t find a solution, you do whatever is necessary to get out,” another agent adds. “‘I’m not playing’, tossing it off in training, bad body language, not putting the effort in. You never get a move by being nice.”

To illustrate his point, the same agent tells a story about a current England international who missed out on a transfer to Liverpool because “he wasn’t prepared to do the last bit” of their exit strategy.

The player told his manager and the chief executive he wanted to leave but when it came to saying that he wouldn’t go on the pre-season tour that summer, he couldn’t bring himself to do it. He just wasn’t comfortable with taking things that far and, in the agent’s words, “hosed it”.

Others will have no qualms about rocking the boat. Robbie Savage played just about every trick in the book when he wanted to leave Birmingham City for Blackburn Rovers in January 2005. He lied to Steve Bruce about aspects of his private life, turned on the tears when the two of them were talking in the manager’s office and, in what ended up being the Welshman’s last game for the club, went through the motions.

“I went out that day (against Newcastle United) and I deliberately played badly. I looked like I couldn’t care less, and it was the first and the last time I’ve done that,” Savage writes in his autobiography. “I’d been on fire but I let everyone down: the fans, the other players and Steve Bruce. He knew that I was playing to get away and that he had a problem. I needed to force the issue.”

Savage left no stone unturned. He even contacted a friend at Sky TV and asked him to get someone to film him at the training ground when the other players were on a day off so that it looked as though he had been ordered to come in on his own. The story wasn’t true but it ended up on the breaking news ticker and that meant Savage had succeeded in generating the publicity that he wanted.

Eventually, with everyone worn down by the whole saga and Savage banished to the reserves, Blackburn and Birmingham agreed a deal. Savage had made it virtually impossible for Birmingham to keep him.

“I got what I wanted in the end,” Savage tells The Athletic. “And I honestly believe that if I didn’t act the way I did, although I regret it now, I wouldn’t have got the move in that window and I’d have missed out on the chance of playing for Mark Hughes.”

David Sullivan was Birmingham’s co-owner at the time and has dealt with a couple of similar cases to Savage since taking over at West Ham United, where Dimitri Payet and Marko Arnautovic caused no end of problems before they were eventually sold.

Payet essentially went on strike, despite the fact he had recently signed a five-and-a-half-year deal. Sullivan wanted to “make an example” of Payet and keep him at the club against his will but that approach would not have helped the manager or the rest of the squad — and players know this as soon as they start being disruptive.

Managers, Sullivan says, want difficult players out of the club as soon as possible because they “create a terrible atmosphere”.

In a way, listening to a manager explain what it is like trying to deal with the fallout from a player being denied the big transfer he wanted helps to explain why those who choose to force through a deal more often than not end up getting their way.

In this scenario, the player in question, who is now making quite a name for himself in the Premier League, reported back for pre-season training, walked into the manager’s office and politely but matter-of-factly laid it on the line.

“He was really honest with me,” says the manager, who has worked in the Premier League and the Championship. “He said, ‘Look, Gaffer, it’s nothing to do with you but I want to leave. I see myself in the Premier League, the agent says he’s got this, this, this, and I want to go.’ So, quite rightly, the club says, ‘For you to go, a club has got to pay X amount.’

“But clubs weren’t willing to pay that and then as a manager you’ve got a player on your hands who just doesn’t want to be there. So for the next two, three months you get sulking. You think, ‘How can I put him on the pitch?’

“If you keep players against their wishes, they down tools. The only time I had anything any good out of that player was the November, when he’d stopped sulking. And by the time the end of that month came he was thinking about moving in January, so you’re back to the same thing.

“With a player like that — someone who is an important player — from the moment they say that they want to leave, we’re hosed as managers. They’re not going to give you commitment and they can be a bad influence in the changing room.

“My reaction is, ‘If that’s the way you’re going to be, I don’t want you around the squad and you can go to the under-23s.’ But then you’ll have the club push back on you and say, ‘He’s an asset, he needs to be involved or his value will go down.’ And then you say, ‘But he doesn’t give a poo poo.’ So you end up having friction with the club. So that whole situation is an absolute nightmare for a manager.”
...
Failing to report for training, or refusing to play in matches, is a fairly standard approach for a footballer to take when trying to engineer a way out of a club. Others will turn up for work but invent injuries — back trouble, which is difficult to pick up on a scan, is a favourite.

Some will be a much bigger pain in the backside. One agent tells a story about a Tottenham Hotspur player going out to training and kicking balls everywhere. Then there is the midfielder who gave his club’s technical director a mouthful of abuse that, realistically, few people would get away with in any other industry.

Whatever the exit strategy, agents will be constantly in their client’s ear encouraging them to be difficult, and so will the club that is trying to sign the player.

In truth, there is not an awful lot the selling club can do in those circumstances. Any player conducting themselves in a way that breaches their contract can be fined up to a maximum of two weeks’ wages but that is no deterrent when there is a lot more money to be made by signing elsewhere.

There is something else to consider in all of this and in many ways it separates the good agents from the bad ones, bearing in mind that a player is going out on a limb when he starts being disruptive. “The art is to know whether these deals can actually happen or not,” one agent says. “Don’t get a player’s hopes too high, because then they are absolutely killed afterwards.”

Either way, rattling cages shouldn’t be the default setting for negotiating. “Some agents try and force things through that are just ridiculous. And all that happens is that it causes a load of bad feeling and nobody wins,” says one leading agent. “There has to be some working together and I think you can get the deal done without being a bastard.

“Try and find a solution for everybody. It could be, ‘We ain’t going to let you go, but we’ll give you £15,000 a week more and we’ll put a buy-out in your contract for the summer.’ And you’re like, ‘OK, we’ll stay.’ So instead of upsetting everybody, you might get a win by playing it out sometimes.”

The nightmare scenario for a player who has his heart set on leaving is if someone at the buying club has a late change of heart. That is what happened in 2013 when Yohan Cabaye, who was pushing to join Arsenal, went on strike at Newcastle.

At the time, it was reported the transfer didn’t go through because Arsenal failed to meet Newcastle’s valuation. However, it is understood that a deal between the two clubs was pretty much agreed, only for it to collapse after Arsene Wenger changed his mind at the last moment. Cabaye was left to pick up the pieces.

Gylfi Sigurdsson had more success after he didn’t turn up for a pre-season flight to the United States when Everton were trying to sign him from Swansea City in 2017. A month of protracted negotiations later, Sigurdsson completed his move to Goodison Park.

Some were surprised Sigurdsson, who always had a reputation for being a model professional, chose to go down the path that he did, yet that kind of thinking overlooks a fundamental point that is at the heart of this whole subject. “Gylfi’s a lovely bloke,” says someone who was working on behalf of one of the clubs in that £40 million deal. “But number one is that it’s their career and they’re going to look after themselves.”

William Gallas was clearly thinking along those lines in 2006. Indeed, it is hard to think of many examples of high-profile players who decided to take things quite as far as he did when he left Chelsea.

The Frenchman was so determined to get out that he threatened to score an own goal or get sent off. Or at least that was the accusation Chelsea made in an extraordinary statement released after Gallas moved to Arsenal.
......

“He initially refused to play against Liverpool in the FA Cup semi-final last season in an effort to force an increased contract offer,” the statement read. “As is now well documented, he refused to join up with the team in Los Angeles during pre-season, despite agreeing the dates for his return, as the other World Cup players did, with the club.

“Before the first game of the season against Manchester City, when only four defenders were available and John Terry was doubtful with an injury, he refused to play. He went on to threaten that if he was forced to play, or if he was disciplined and financially punished for his breach of the rules, that he could score an own goal or get himself sent off, or make deliberate mistakes.”

Gallas later denied he had ever said he would score own goals for Chelsea’s opponents but admitted that he was firm in expressing his desire to leave.
...
The media can be a useful tool for clubs and agents when it comes to trying to get a transfer moving, whether it’s drip-feeding a few snippets of off-the-record information that are designed to unsettle things, encouraging a player to say a few lines post-match or going the whole hog and setting up a one-to-one interview.

Players will commonly say something more controversial while away on international duty when there is no club media officer near them — Moussa Sissoko perfected the art while at Newcastle — and often claim afterwards that everything was somehow mixed up in translation. Of course it was.

At other times, the process is a lot more transparent.

In 2008, Gareth Barry gave an unauthorised interview to the News of the World, the former Sunday tabloid, saying he wanted to leave Aston Villa for Liverpool and criticising Martin O’Neill, who was his manager at the time.

It turned out to be a bad error of judgement. Barry was fined two weeks’ wages, ordered to stay away from Villa’s training ground for a fortnight, never joined Liverpool and ended up playing for the Midlands club for another season. “You should always keep what goes on to try and get out behind closed doors,” says one agent.

Aidy Ward saw things rather differently when it came to Raheem Sterling’s departure from Liverpool, which was played out in public. Sterling gave a 27-minute interview to the BBC in April 2015 — an interview Liverpool had no idea was taking place — saying he was flattered by interest from Arsenal and dismayed to be portrayed as a mercenary. That was followed by Ward saying his client would not be staying at Anfield even if he was offered £900,000 a week. He effectively went to war with Liverpool over Sterling.

Although Brendan Rodgers, Liverpool’s manager at the time, described Sterling’s PR gamble as a “mistake”, and the whole saga generated a lot of negative publicity around those involved, the bottom line is that the player got the move he wanted. “Aidy Ward will turn around and go, ‘I got the job done,’” one agent says, almost admiringly, before adding, “But I believe what he did is a last resort.”
.....

Social media offers another platform for players to get their message across these days and has made for some entertaining exchanges over time, whether that be Saido Berahino telling West Brom chairman Jeremy Peace that he would never play for the club again, or Darren Bent daring to take on Daniel Levy.

“Seriously getting p***** off now,” Bent tweeted in July 2009. “Why can’t anything be simple. It’s so frustrating hanging round doing jack s***. Do I wanna go Hull City NO. Do I wanna go stoke NO do I wanna go sunderland YES so stop f****** around, Levy. Sunderland are not the problem in the slightest.”

Bent was on Wearside a week later, which represents something of a triumph on his part given that he was taking on Levy, who has a reputation for being a tough negotiator at the best of times.

In fact, another story about Levy highlights why for many agents, and players, this whole subject of forcing a move has to be seen as a two-way street. Peter Crouch, who is one of the most likeable people in the game, was in his second spell at Tottenham and had no plans to leave the club until he walked into manager Harry Redknapp’s office on deadline day in August 2011 — and straight into a conference call with Levy.

Crouch, who had two years left on his contract and scored seven goals for Spurs in the Champions League the previous season, was told in no uncertain terms that he was leaving White Hart Lane. The alternative, Levy explained, was staying at Tottenham and not kicking a ball for the club again.

“It’s not just the players and the agents. If a club wants a player out, they’re quite happy to treat him like a piece of poo poo,” one agent explains. “‘We’ll get you training at 5 o’clock when all the lads have gone home.’ That happens. Regularly. ‘Pick up your stuff, get yourself into the under-23s dressing room and you ain’t coming back. gently caress you. Find yourself a new club.’”
.....

If you wondered why any mention of putting in a transfer request has been left to last, it is for good reason. “That’s just embarrassing,” says an agent. “What is it? You’re handing in a letter saying you want to leave. What the hell does that do? ‘I’m handing in a transfer request’. ‘Oh. Good for you.’”

In fact, it transpires somewhat ironically that the transfer request is usually submitted these days to help the selling club. “They ask you to put one in after the deal is agreed, so they can say the player asked to leave,” another agent explains. “You have to give that as part of your negotiation ploy to get out because the chairman always says, ‘The fans are going to kill us.’”

A former Premier League chairman confirms that is indeed the case. “It takes the heat off the owners,” he adds. “That’s the only reason to do a transfer request in this day and age, so it convinces the supporters that the player doesn’t want to be there and that the club aren’t willing sellers.”

In theory, a player submitting a transfer request forfeits any future signing-on fees that are due, or loyalty payments as they are now more commonly known, although even that is rarely enforced by the sound of things. “I can assure you there’s not many agents who would allow that these days,” the former chairman adds. “If a player has been signed for not a lot and is transferred for a big fee, they’ll turn around and say, ‘We’ve made you enough money.’”

Ultimately, it is hard to escape the feeling that almost everything is loaded in the favour of the player who wants to get away.

Yet before anybody starts feeling too sorry for the selling club, it is worth remembering that they’ll be trying to make a transfer work for them in exactly the same way when it comes to signing a replacement.

As one agent puts it rather succinctly, “The whole thing is a game.”

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Bundy posted:

Welsh international from Wrexham wanting to play for legendary Welsh international from Wrexham that was one of the best strikers for his childhood club and country isn't really that big a lol.

True, good point. I obviously knew they were both Welsh but didn't know it was THAT close of a connection between them, so yeah that makes sense that he’d look up to and want to play for him. LOL retracted.

Right after I posted that I realized it wasn't as funny as I imagined because I was only picturing in my mind the fraud Mark Hughes we all know and love in the year 2020, not the 2005 version who was still a former United legend and a rough but not a completely terrible manager yet.

sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

big crush on Chad OMG posted:

I hope it’s with the right lawyers this time!!!

lol

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sticksy
May 26, 2004
Nap Ghost

Gigi Galli posted:

His wig gremlins demand tribute.

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