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Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

OwlFancier posted:

Slendertrain, slendertrain, highly unstable slendertrain.
Steals your kids, then explodes, quits the franchise afterwards.

Love this.

Happy 2020 you goony fucks.

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Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Guavanaut posted:

Good morning UKMT



This is violence. In other news, I'm back at work today and my sleep schedule was so bad over the festive period that it feels like I've got a hangover from waking up at 7am. We need to hurry up and overthrow capitalism because this is some bullshit.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Tesseraction posted:

My Aussie aunt is still sending my mum facebook messages about how it's the drat Greens responsible for all of this. Any country that Murdoch gets his tendrils into raises the dumbest motherfuckers.

:sever:

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Ms Adequate posted:

That line African American parents stereotypically tell their kids: "You'll have to work twice as hard to get half as far."

Anyone even remotely interested in this topic should read Akala's book "Natives" which is really good and interesting and depressing.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...


For when you need your grandma to know you're a nerd?

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

bump_fn posted:

lmfao "sensible soccer" is the most british soundign game ive ever heard of

It's football on this side of the pond, yank.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...


Anime is cancelled. Sorry namtab.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...


Jess Phillips said "this isn't just about me"? Who is this doppelgänger?

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Communist Thoughts posted:

i wish we could just do the full female leadership contest, even just as a small gesture since it seems like none of the leadership candidates are as inspiring as corbyn and we're in a position that almost guarantees defeat at the next GE anyway

i'm concerned its just gonna be starmer as people hedge their bets, rightfully wary of both corbynism and the labour right. then we're gonna end up with a charisma-less void caretaker and the party doesnt advance in either direction. I guess you could go for worse options considering.

how much does the leader actually matter if the membership maintains control? I assume it could matter a lot if theyr totally hostile, but if not then presumably it doesnt matter a whole bunch, the work of turning the party into a left democratic organ will continue.
I just think at this point asking people to vote for the 3rd most popular successor (possibly 4th if you include clive) to corbyn is a bit of an ask considering what we just went through, I wouldn't blame the membership at large for being wary, even I am.

I'd like a new direction thanks, stay left but try a different tack to win this time. i assume like a lot of posters itt i've been through a dark period of reflection and would like to see that... reflected by the labour left, not just "it woz brexit and sabotage, same again". we got loving savaged, we know blairism doesnt work but now we know corbynism doesnt either. time for something new.

The problem is we're not getting a new left direction (well we might, let's not prejudge LRB, but probably not since the media will push corbyn2.0). We're either getting reheated (oven ready) blairism or LRB at this point. Maaaayyybe Starmer is the bland void you think he is, but I reckon he'll tack right because nobody likes being shat on 24/7 by the media and their colleagues. If that's the choice, I go LRB every day. No surrender. Four day week, Three day bender!

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Debbie Does Dagon posted:

Silly question, but if I've been a Labour member for 4 months will I be able to vote in the leadership election, or will I have to pay the £25?

Freeze date is Jan 20th, you're good.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

stev posted:

If they didn't do that in 2017, 2018 and 2019 I don't think a little thing like 'starting a war for funsies' will sway them.

Yeah if anything it makes hardcore Republicans like him even more.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Guavanaut posted:

He was a bit poo poo to civilians and may have been indiscriminate while he was defeating ISIS and al-Nusra, but that puts him more in the league of Bernard Montgomery than Osama bin Laden.

Let's not sugar coat this though, dude was in charge AFAIK of Iran's intelligence? That means finding terrorist orgs at the very least. He was not a good dude by any metric but here's the thing: THAT DOESN'T MATTER. You can't assassinate people, even if they're terrorists, out of nowhere. You know why? Because the category of who is and isn't a terrorist is very subject to change based on whims.

Owen Jones' sister was detained under terrorism laws after returning from the G8 protests in Germany, iirc. We should always condemn assassination without trial because it's morally wrong and also because of pragmatic reasons. The left is opposed to the establishment and the establishment decides who is a terrorist. Once we get any actual opposition going, it'll be us.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Jose posted:

important to note that this wasn't out of nowhere its highly likely the US deliberately lured him there under pretences of de-escalation with saudi arabia before droning him

Out of nowhere as in he didn't orchestrate 9/11 last week, but I take your point

Coohoolin posted:

I love the English left, it's so cool and smart and aware

https://twitter.com/PerthshireMags/status/1214601112319352833?s=19

Can you elaborate? I'm not knowledgeable enough about scotpol to understand the reference.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Tesseraction posted:

bud are you saying Iran did 9/11

I am Mike Pence and you claim my £5?

Also thank you to everyone who explained the no surrender business. I am still woefully uninformed about the UK's past

Miftan fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jan 8, 2020

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

namesake posted:

Unison leadership is garbage, this is well known.

What big union leadership isn't these days?

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Jose posted:

not sure who to vote for in the deputy election with rayner and butler both standing

All else being equal I'd rather have a bame woman in a position of power over another white lady.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

how the gently caress does this forums drama stuff keep happening when every goon's like 37+ years old

I only look like a middle aged white man, I'm actually a 4,000 year old dragon.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Junior G-man posted:

To me Jessflaps was always a sideshow without a real shot. Like, apart from a bunch of rear end in a top hat columnists, who is her actual base of support inside the party and unions?

Yeah this, I don't think she's pulling off a corbyn, but when she gets knocked out her supporters are definitely going to pivot to Starmer. I'm more concerned by the Lavery types converting to Clive Lewis. To be fair he has some good ideas, but attitude towards women and #metoo are a disqualifying factor for me. Probably help with the general electorate though..

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1215377862393585664

54 noms still ungiven for deputy and 52 for leader. Number required to get on the ballot is 22.

I'll be loving pissed if Butler doesn't make it onto the ballot.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

OwlFancier posted:

Count Nybroc is not a vampire, or rather he has a rare form of vampirism where he eats the rich and the ejects black puddings at high velocity at people who are hungry.

Gross.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

feedmegin posted:

MEATY GOONS

I am moving to London (Barking) this/next month. As part of my reconnaissance I will be in London next Saturday the 18th; myself and some goon cronies will be meeting up at this place at 2pm for beers and chat and possibly arranging a regular D&D or other roleplaying game once I've moved; any comrades from this thread who want to meet goons in that scary real life thing are welcome to come along too.

I can assure you that definitely nobody was killed, harvested for their organs and eaten the last time I arranged a goonmeet :wotwot:

"getting a lot of questions that were already answered by my 'I definitely didn't kill someone, harvest their organs, and eay them' t-shirt"

Miftan fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jan 10, 2020

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

feedmegin posted:

Just make sure you dont harvest the liver, you'll want that with some fava beans and a nice chianti. :chef:

Man what the gently caress did I do with the grammar in the post

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

OwlFancier posted:

Sent it second class, presumably.

Look at Mr. Moneybags here who can send his grammar first class. La dee da! You'll be first up against the wall, pal.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

sebzilla posted:

You should watch Firefly it's pretty good

It's pretty average.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Sanitary Naptime posted:

Cool, are tories and Lib Dem’s still fair game too? :v:

We already said Nazis are fair game~!! (i'm kidding lib dems aren't nazis they're just enablers)

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...


Those suggestions are absolute rear end.

Especially 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9 & 10 are just.. absolute nothing commitments that don't mean anything.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Purple Prince posted:

As a philosophy student I once tried reading Roger Scruton.

All I remember is some pretentious nonsense about how Western Aesthetic Values are inherently superior to other cultures.

There seems to be something about Conservative philosophers which makes them love aesthetics and also make no sense to anyone outside their weird bubble.

I think it might be racism.

Aesthetics is by far the weirdest branch of philosophy even without all the weird racists, imo.

And also they call themselves aestheticians so everybody thinks they do nails and eyebrows for a living.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Purple Prince posted:

I think it's to do with attempting to rationalise something which is generally considered to be emotionally-driven and subjective, and the kind of knots you need to tie yourself in to get to a logical argument.

Also aesthetics requires a theory of mind to make it work and that puts you straight into the middle of some philosophy of mind poo poo, which you then need to attach exposition to to explain aesthetic reception.

"If you thought The Critique of Pure Reason was bad, meet The Critique of [Aesthetic] Judgement!"

That's true of all philosophy fwiw. It's especially bad in ethics where someone will write 4 loving tomes and then some dickhead says 'ethics is a category error' and the whole room devolves into a tavern brawl (as all great philosophy is done in pubs anyway)

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Guavanaut posted:

Fast forward to Labour deferring to a beth din of the most Orthodox Jews imaginable, and they're all Third Temple diasporic Jews who regard secular Israel as a traitor state acting against the coming of the Messiah.

I'm not sure the Israeli rabbinate will take the case.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

StarkingBarfish posted:

See #8. They got ahead of that. I'd have been cool with 'find the most socialest kibbutz and ask them to take it on'

The vast majority of Kibbutzim have been privatised and make a poo poo ton of money now! :eng101:

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Guavanaut posted:

Okay, new proposal, all cases to be independently judged by Irving Leonard Finkel, by interpretation of the Code of Ur-Nammu (except the slavery bits). Three kur of barley per antisemitism, welcome to clay court, binches!



Is that the new Greggs vegan steak bake he's holding?

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Just looked out the window and it looked like the street got hit by a Jose-level storm.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Pratchett has all that just without the massive Hollywood money thing behind me and also without the bad writing. So I'd guess it was probably a successful book series that got massive by throwing a ton of money at it.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

stev posted:

(How did his parents become wizard millionaires anyway? Who did they exploit?)

They invented toaster strudels

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Guavanaut posted:

I've never read any of the Harrys Potter. I'm not even sure why, I think it took off while I was I was reading The Last Continent and in the wrong age range, maybe?

But I'd like to visit that theory that things only develop huge fandoms because they have an aspect of the terrible. Works that can defend themselves don't get fandoms, and works that are fairly inoffensive and entertaining don't get fandoms either. It's only works that teeter on the precipice between cultural landmark and truly monumental badness that tend to attract fan followings that cross over from "a handful of anoraks queueing up for Authorfest '20" into actual fandom, because it turns the defence of the work into a matter of faith, and faith inspires a tribalism that transcends rationality.

It's the same driving force that makes it impossible to imagine a serious fandom around George Boole or Leo Löwenthal, but the number one selling philosophy book of the past 5 years is (spoilered to protect Miftan and others) 12 Rules for Life by loving Jordan Bernt Peterson. You can deny that there's even a coherent philosophy there, but you can't deny that there's a thread of badness or a fandom willing to go to bat as a matter of faith.

Karen Potter and the Coupon That Expired.

Jordan Peterson has never written anything that could count as philosophy in his life, unless you want to categorize all self help books as philosophy. He's a Christian Conservative but he actively tries to hide it.

In non-awful person news, all around good egg David Graeber has written a piece about Centrism and the election I think the thread will enjoy and that on first read through seems mostly very plausible to me

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

namesake posted:

It's sort of okay but being an administrator or highly educated and liking a system of explicit rules is not the basis of a class. You know who has a lot of rules to learn and obey at all times? Welders. Because working with deadly heat and explosive gases under pressure in industrial environments ends up needing a lot of things to be checked and monitored. You know who else? The deeply religious. You know who else? Literally everyone living in a society learns the millions of assumptions and expectations of that society and obey them and frequently get rather upset when they see them broken.

Rules, explicit or otherwise, are not the enemy, it is understanding and control of the rules which people respect or hate. Management are unaccountable to the workers so the rules are seen as oppressive or arbitrary, same as politicians and laws regardless of their actual values but they aren't particularly the source of the distastefulness and centering them as one won't resolve the problem.

Raging at middle management is fine because they are likely to have bad worker consciousness but they aren't some seperate class to be opposed in the same way as the ruling class. Their mindset is bad but not fundamentally different from other workers.

I think the point Graeber is trying to make is that people are really sick of, and this is the biggie, rules that they can't change and disagree with. This is everyone with a stupid boss, nurses raging at the admin who make them fill out a million forms instead of caring for patients (every job has this to some extent) and gammons raging and unelected brussels bureaucrats.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

namesake posted:

Yeah that's what I'm saying too but phrasing it as a class divide means the particular rulemaking groups in society become the enemy rather than the actual class system which takes away the workers freedom and then creates a legion of monitors to enforce it.

Sorry I'm not being clear. I agree with you and I think Graeber might as well. He's just saying the tories might have found a way to leverage that frustration into winning with people whose interests they don't represent.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

ronya posted:

I did like the essay, but it is odd to write this


and not even mention the New Left, the 1968 Democratic Convention, May 1968, the new social movements, counterculture, women's lib etc as things that existed. Parties that resisted rejecting vanguardism and embracing new social movements like the PCF and PCI did not find much success either... instead he presents the responses of left-leaning parties in the 1970s as a unilateral abandonment. Who was donning the hard hats in 1970 then?

One would think that Graeber the great intellectual anarchist might regard the spirit of interdit d'interdire
a little more fondly, but perhaps it had the wrong demographic makeup... too many bourgeois backgrounds

He's almost definitely not happy about it, but if we're being charitable, it's a statement of fact - what happened - not a judgement call. The judgement call is reserved for how this interacted with the 2019 election. That analysis, whatever your opinion of it, is I think solid. It may or may not be true, as is true for all analysis, but I think it's an interesting idea to think about. Ultimately, it's just another way of saying that people think of politicians and the establishment is being pencil pushers and bureaucrats and Johnson managed to conflate that with the EU while positioning himself as the opposite. That's why you get people saying things like "he says it like it is" and all that crap.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

Beefeater1980 posted:

Graeber is interesting because he’s never less than 40% or more than 60% right. He has a talent for getting one big, controversial idea that’s broadly correct but he tends to then take that off into corollaries that aren’t (and isn’t very interested in details).

Example here: people don’t like being subject to rules they didn’t make and can’t change (true).

Therefore anyone who makes a career out of understanding, interpreting or applying rules is annoying to people who don’t, particularly because that kind of expertise tends to be better paid than doing stuff directly (true).

Therefore there is a fundamental divide between a useless parasite class of rules-understanders / professional organisers and a good salt of the earth class of genuine carers who are too busy doing REAL WORK to understand things like rules, which are all made up and pointless in any case (false and weirdly overreaching).

He’s like a more left wing Will Hutton.

I'll have to reread the article, but I don't think that's the point he was making. I thought it was (to your second true point) "and the tories successfully placed the EU and Labour in the rules camp and them in the opposite. This was the basis for the recent wave of right wing populism since 2016."

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Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

gh0stpinballa posted:

think i managed to cancel my labour membership but that was really long winded, ended up having to email like 3 different people

Why would you cancel it before the leadership election? At the very least you couldve held on to it for a bit more to make sure the proper rear end in a top hat don't get in.

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