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Movie ruled, I really liked it. I thought the look was overall great, with a lot of small and large details just looking spectacular; though I do think some of the Lynch designs were more interesting because they were more out there or needlessly elaborate. For example the floating lights, and I think the chubby round boi harvesters have more charisma. However, a lot of the shots in DUNC were beyond compare in how well done they were, and the sparser aesthetic fit perfectly into the stark setup, lighting etc. - this was all an obviously coherent and fully realized vision. For me the most memorable scene in setup and execution was naked Leto, like a Greek [get it] statue, posed opposite the Baron. What a wonderful image. It did get a little long in the tooth at the end, but! I didn't actually know that it was only part 1, so I don't know how that colored expectations of length and pacing. I was with my wife and two friends and at some point we started to share glances like "how will they, you know, end this? Is the movie 4 hours long?". (I am aware that it said "Part 1" at the very start, but I thought it meant "this is the first book's story" or that there'd be chapters)
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Sep 21, 2021 15:34
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| # ¿ May 10, 2024 12:32 |
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Alchenar posted:I'll say again, if you only show the first half of the book then that looks an awfully lot like an unironic white saviour story. Hell, outside of Paul's internal doubts (not unusual for a white saviour) it's only really in Children of Dune that the reader gets a recap of events since the end of the book 1 that says outright "the Jihad was not a good thing also the Fremen are not happy with the new order of things" Actually, there are some possibilities presented within the movie how this story could play out - the vision where Paul becomes best friends with Jamis, presumably after gaining his respect after sparing his life. That would be similar to a story where the white outsider is just so drat noble with his pure ideals that the savages have to begrudgingly accept as better than theirs. Instead, Paul is forced to kill Jamis because that's not how it works.
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Sep 23, 2021 14:40
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I might see this again tomorrow with a buddy who hasn't yet. Should I look out for something special on second viewing
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Sep 24, 2021 22:14
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okay here goes "I think she's gonna choose the fifth one in line! Because that's SHADOUT MAPES" "He saved someone from the Hunter-Killer, that's right - SHADOUT MAPES" "who's that corpse? oh boy - it was SHADOUT MAPES" fin
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Sep 24, 2021 22:57
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They condensed all the "wow the Harkonnen are gross bastards" scenes into one... thing and it worked
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Sep 25, 2021 22:56
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Reading Dune rn This is the only mention of drum sands:  Someone two pages back half-remembered a passage where the Baron goes "maybe Rabban isn't quite as stupid as I thought", here it is:  Finally, Herbert also thinks subtext is for cowards: 
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Nov 28, 2021 13:24
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2house2fly posted:I did the Leonardo Dicaprio pointing meme when I read this: EDIT: I remember people complaining that the Fremen keep removing their mouth coverings to speak, but they do that in the book as well! Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Nov 28, 2021 |
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Nov 28, 2021 14:23
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I think it reads great but I'm also STEM as gently caress so the story checks out
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Nov 29, 2021 08:29
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The laser vs knife discussion still drives me insane because it really, really doesn't need an explanation. From reading the book as a kid, I completely forgot the explosive interaction, my take-home-message from it and now the movie was very simple: shields prevent lasers from being used so you have to use something slow and controlled, which can only be a knife used by your own hand, or a clumsy drone that the defender can easily swat away. It makes sense both in a "lol technology has gotten so advanced that they have to paradoxically use brute force to counter it" way and as a metaphor for the whole archaic-rear end system.
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Dec 1, 2021 15:27
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Neither Paul nor Jessica care too much that Duncan uses a shield trap to make some Sardaukar blow themselves up in the book; they do ask if he considered the residue which looks like someone might have used atomics, but Duncan easily counters that by pointing out that the people currently using heavy weapons are not the Atreides + neither the Baron nor the Emperor want any details coming out about what's actually going on on Arrakis, so they won't raise a peep that might cause an investigation.
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Dec 1, 2021 17:59
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:In the book, there's no palms.
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Dec 1, 2021 19:01
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After a bit of a break, I continued reading the novel, and this part reminded me of an earlier discussion regarding the politicizing and a whole bunch of "why don't they just"s: The Count is sent by the Emperor. So basically, despite working together to get rid of the Atreides, they are both well aware that what they did should not come to the attention of the other Houses. And they keep reminding each other that they have about three steps of contigency plans in case one of them decides to use this secret knowledge to his advantage. Basically, from just the text of the movie, you can always speculate one step further regarding who might do what and reveal which secret and how that might be received, denied, countered, retaliated etc. - and you'd always be correct. Everything in Dune relies on a very, very tenuous balance of power, with every House amongst themselves and also the Emperor being in a constant standoff. The threat of House Atomics that are taboo to use but still everybody keeps them is just one facet of this. Ultimately, it works (so far!) because nobody has an interest in being the one to tip the balance, because best case you'd be instantly obliterated, worst case the entire system burns down (but still you first). Removing the Atreides is a tip of that balance, but it required two factions that are nominally opposed to work together, which - see above - hasn't been easy for either of them, and ultimately only created more issues for them to try and keep contained. They just figured that keeping the Atreides around would be an even greater issue.
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Dec 10, 2021 13:03
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I really liked the scenes between the Baron and Feyd in the book, where the Baron is basically teaching Feyd about cunning and plans within plans and how to be ruthless and cruel in just the right way. It's obvious that Feyd knows he's hot poo poo and much smarter and better educated (and physically fitter) than pretty much anyone on Geidi Prime, but the Baron keeps teaching him that a) Feyd is like that because of the Baron's will and b) except for the physical part, the Baron is still much Feyd's superior. And still, in a latter scene, Feyd almost manages to get the Baron killed, showing that he's learning. It backfires because he doesn't succeed and the Baron uses it to teach another very painful lesson, but it goes a long way to establish Feyd beyond "pampered failson". He starts out as physically strong and willing to fight incredibly dirty, and he becomes smarter and sneakier as the book goes on, it's a great way to establish him as a very real danger to Paul. Paul's progress is actually very similar: he already knows how to fight when the book starts, but he has to learn a lot of painful lessons about political intrigue and scheming as the events unfold.
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Mar 21, 2022 10:58
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Rewatched Dune 2 in IMAX and it was so worth it. This time I paid special attention to a bunch of the (mostly plot) complaints brought up here in the thread but also from other people. Just a few things I noticed: - "it's jarring that in one scene Paul refuses to go South but then he does go South": his mom/sister tell him to do it so he can unlock perfect precognition, he refuses. Stilgar says kill me and go in my stead so you can speak in the council, Paul refuses (both killing and going obv). Gurney says go and take over the millions of Fremen and have your revenge, Paul refuses. Then Sietch Tabr gets attacked, Paul didn't see it coming, and obviously is wracked with guilt: if he'd gone with his mom, he could have drunk the water earlier, and foreseen it. So he invokes a vision of Jamis, who tells him "hey knowing about your enemies in advance is pretty useful". Then Chani comes and says "you know I'd be fine with you going, just try to remain yourself" and that, finally, makes him decide that it might be worth it after all. I think if it wasn't for that last thing, it might have been a bit abrupt, but literally every advisor he ever had (or might have had!) tells him to go, it makes sense that he'd crack under that pressure - therefore, also, it makes sense why he goes to drink the water immediately instead of prioritizing the council - it was brought up where the Fremen get all their supplies including e.g. Chani's ornithopter, my wife also brought that up: but we see that? They loot ammo, grenades, even armor off the Harkonnen after the first scene. They must have been doing that for decades. We also know from the first movie that Fremen are not an unusual sight in Arrakeen, it's easy to imagine that they'd do heavy industrial espionage. Also, Kynes was an inside source for quite a while. They use bazookas, lasers, they are obviously familiar with the highest level technology - it's very easy to conclude that they'd train their warriors in using captured vehicles as well, and therefore they can just jump into the spaceships in the end too - people were questioning why Rabban never used artillery on the Fremen before Feyd took over. But I noticed that the scene in which Feyd is designated new ruler of Dune takes place on Giedi Prime, not Arrakis - I mentally shortcutted to it being an arrival ceremony like in the first movie, but it's still grayscale. You see a huge amount of Harkonnen troops muster there, and the artilleries as well. Feyd brought them an a huge amount of personnel with him to Dune. I agree that it would have been a stretch to say that Rabban is just too stupid to use artillery that's just lying around, but I can buy him being too stupid/too arrogant/too embarrassed to phone home and go "hey can you bring some heavy equipment, we're having a rat problem here" - "why didn't Paul just tell Chani hey, I'm going to need to marry Irulan for political reasons but it's cool": Paul has a line after drinking the water where he says re: Chani "she'll come around". He has already seen (or thinks he has!) that Chani will be upset but change her mind, so why bother filling her in? Also, he's currently following his narrow path that's the only one he's seen that leads him to defeating his enemies, staying alive etc.: easy to assume that getting Chani upset is part of that path and telling her would change it. That's a bit of a weak justification but it's how the book does it all the time, so... I think that's most of the stuff I noticed as actually having a pretty good in-movie explanation without needing to go "but in the books". Other things: - the houses immediately deciding to not acknowledge Paul, I got nothing but I assume that will be expanded on in the next film - even on rewatch both me and my wife found the final duel a bit confusing to follow, especially where each knife was at which point. I did think "wait, where did the third knife come from?" the first time before piecing together what I think is the correct sequence involving only two, then my wife asked the exact same question and I told her how I think it went, but that scene is really hurt imo by not seeing the knives actually go into people and also by the twist of having Paul stab Feyd offscreen - "why does the Emperor go personally, exposing himself to danger" has been abundantly discussed in the thread and doesn't have a clear "oh that's why" in the movie, though imo it makes perfect sense so I won't adress it here Thus concludes my anti-cinema-sins post
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Mar 25, 2024 13:44
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Failed Imagineer posted:e: ^^^^ a good post 2) oh yeah something else I noticed: after Lady Fenring does her thing with Feyd, it cuts to a scene in a garden where she, Irulan and the Reverend Mother talk under some sort of gazebo. You only see that from the outside for a brief moment, but I'm pretty sure its roof tiles have the same color and texture as the pain box
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Mar 25, 2024 14:17
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Neo Rasa posted:Regarding the knife fight, I don't know, I'm not saying they had to have a The Raid 2 climax caliber knife fight (though that would have been amazing of course and fitting) but I think both it and especially the Jamis knife fight in part 1 could have been a little better. Was it just a matter of like if the movie was rated R they could hold the shots longer or something? It seemed like they did have some cool stuff in mind in both. We see on screen throat slittings and stuff though so I don't know. What I think happens in the fight: - after the initial bout where they kick and headbutt a bunch, neither fighter is actually cut - Paul has a bloodied brow and Feyd has a nosebleed and/or a busted lip but the knives have not hit - then Feyd calls Chani a pet - Paul gets mad at that and overextends, and gets the knife in his side. And this is very hard to actually see but in order for the rest to make sense it must be his own knife, that Feyd catches and twists around - Feyd then gets close and tries to deliver the killing blow to Paul with his/the emperor's blade, but Paul catches that with his glove - Paul draws Feyd close, distracts him with the fight over the knife at eye level, pulls the knife out of his side and stabs Feyd in a more lethal place - Feyd actually finishes his stabbing motion at the same time (so it looks like Paul loses) but Paul shifts the knife far enough to the side/Feyd slips because of his shock when Paul's knife hits him that Paul only gets the emperor's blade in his shoulder - Feyd dies, Paul pulls his knife from him, pulls the emperor's blade from his shoulder and throws it to the ground The most realistic part: as they say, in a real knife fight, one fighter dies in the arena and one on the way to the hospital - Paul definitely looks like he could do the latter, we know he won't but he's still really banged up.
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Mar 25, 2024 15:27
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hailthefish posted:you know the roman statue retvrn guy meme about "hard times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make soft men, soft men make hard times" or whatever? in the dune universe this is literally a metaphysical fundamental rule of the universe, the fremen are tough because arrakis is tough. *you know, as opposed to malnourished, constantly dehydrated, and tripping balls from the raw superdrug in the air
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Mar 26, 2024 08:15
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kalel posted:I think the shields add a visual novelty to the fight scenes that is pretty cool. I was really impressed with gurney versus paul in part 1. I liked the moment when duncan gets hit with a maula dart and the camera cuts in close to him deflecting it with his blade. and I think the battle with atreides troops versus harks + sardaukar on the stairs looks great. obviously the fremen don't use them and paul doesn't have access to one so part 2 features much less shield combat, but its absence is felt Stairs fight was great (wide perspective helped it), as someone said the non-fight in the dust cloud of the throne room doors was amazing, one thing that really irked me however was the one fight in 2 that actually featured lots of shielded enemies: when Gurney raids Arrakeen and he and his Fremen cut through the chanceless Harkonnen. Gurney doesn't pull his strikes at all. There's at least one moment where he stabs a Harkonnen full force, the shield just goes from blue to red and the guy dies. Seems weird that they'd just ignore it entirely like that, it's a minor detail but it irked me both times I watched the movie. victorious posted:Just had a thought. The 'battle sign' sign language in the movies we see used by Jessica and also the Emperor's Reverend Mother. Am I remembering correctly that in the books it was specifically an Atreides thing? Because it seems like the movies are treating like it's a Bene Gesserit thing instead.
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Mar 26, 2024 10:21
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I drove to Sinsheim (I think all three of the recent posters are in Germany?) for the 1.43:1 experience, my first in IMAX, and it was awesome. I also checked out the video linked itt (I think) where it was shown that the movie was filmed in that aspect ratio, and either they cut off stuff if not important or digitally added something on the side when it was. That was helpful to set and ground my expectations!
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Apr 5, 2024 12:19
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Qubee posted:I didn't view Stilgar as comic relief, I just viewed him as a typical loony fanatic.
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Apr 11, 2024 10:37
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I mean Javier Bardem is a hilarious actor also, just doesn’t get much chance to show it. He was very funny but I felt like it undermined the gravitas he had a bit, he does come off as “loony fanatic” or funny guy but he’s also capably leading a band of people living in literal hell 2) I wanted to stick to book info so I didn't mention that - I don't think the film gives us the "men too" info?
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Apr 11, 2024 10:49
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Blood Boils posted:Eh I dunno about that, he could have the guild keep them on arrakis and rule from Caladan if he wanted to
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Apr 11, 2024 19:32
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Blood Boils posted:All I'm saying is the golden path is chosen deliberately by Paul Once he has drunk the water of life, he can literally go through every "what if I did this instead" scenario in his head and realizes that oops, his vision of a terrible future was correct after all because no matter what he does, it will happen, but - and that's the paltry good news about this - it's in fact one of the best possible outcomes from the poo poo he set in motion already. That's the path he chooses. You are proposing that there might in fact be another way that leads to a less terrible outcome but I think we just have to take the text of book and film at face value here: Paul has already played through all the other ways and discarded them as even worse, unfeasible etc. - like, killing himself immediately would let the Fremen rampage across the galaxy uncontrollably because Paul's no longer around to give any guidance. So he chooses to stick around and prevent them from going too crazy. That's one of the main decisions here - staying alive - but everything else he does must be treated the same way. Now, I haven't read further than half of Messiah and what's been posted in this thread, so it's entirely possible that in the end it turns out he's wrong and there was another way, or he finally manages to prove to himself that oh gently caress I could have broken out of this golden fate prison I made for myself all along, but that's irrelevant because Paul ultimately being fallible and maybe interpreting his visions wrong is not incongruent with him thinking as of the events of Dune 2 that he is right and there's no other way.
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Apr 11, 2024 23:41
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I found the Harkonnen aesthetic particularly brilliant because it looks cool. In the Lynch movie and the game (which bases its aesthetics on the first movie), they are very gross, obviously super evil, and that kind of over the topness is fun and I have nothing against the choice. DUNC!Harks however, I can much more easily see as a people. There's a whole planet of them! Of course we also get shown a crowd unlike in the claustrophobic mad scientist lab sets of Lynch-Dune, but regardless, I can much more easily understand how a random Harkonnen soldier or citizen could actually live in this society, perhaps even enjoy and thrive in it. It's got a clear "we're strong, awesome, unified" aesthetic like real life fascists go for, but it is not informed by those, it's its own thing, and that's also what's cool about it. You can easily imagine one of the people in the arena crowd thinking "man, we have it good here on Geidi Prime - everybody knows their place, nobody has to think about fashion, the Baron wins wars throughout the galaxy, my son in his army is getting fed and has a cushy position on planet Bumfuckistan, and here I am getting to enjoy regular bloodsports". Maybe people dream of becoming a lackey of the Baron. Extremely high risk of getting offed but the benefits compared to the general populace must be amazing.
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Apr 16, 2024 19:56
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Tei posted:Order must maintained at every moment showing force. Humiliating inferiors. Offering gifts to superiors. Every citizen would have one or two broken bones from police operations, or maybe a superior that took in his hands the need to increase productivity with violence.
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Apr 16, 2024 23:16
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Hover technology way beyond what's currently possible is obviously way allowed, maybe the "hologram" is actually a swarm of tiny drones that receive voice commands by the mentats to form patterns
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Apr 17, 2024 21:58
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