Nevada Democratic Primary Debate 2020: The Hunt For The Wild Bloomberg

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Nevada Democratic Primary Debate 2020: The Hunt For The Wild Bloomberg

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

What am I? Chicken Liver?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 03:26

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:02

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Hahahahaha.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 03:45

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Biden: I know ALL ABOUT non-disclosure agreements!

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 03:46

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

I called him up!

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 03:52

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Actually mining and drilling should ONLY occur on public lands but go off I guess...

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:02

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

osker posted:

Own the means of production?

Couldn't hurt to try...

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:04

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Their people are gonna die just like our people are gonna die.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:10

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

This is where I get insanely pissed no-one is even going to say the word co-operative.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:16

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

THE WAYS TO FIX ALL OF THOSE PROBLEMS IS SUPPORTING THE CREATION OF DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED COMMUNITY ENTERPRISES AND THERES A MOUNTAIN OF HISTORY AND RESEARCH TO SUPPORT THIS.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:19

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

PotatoManJack posted:

I like calling for universal childcare - that's a good one

Its like one of the foundational planks of meaningful economic emancipation for all people.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:21

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Wrong bitch.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:22

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

metasynthetic posted:

Whoa 20% of all ownership? drat can I vote for Bernie twice?

I wish he talked about this more because its one of the most important parts of his platform in terms of actually accomplishing his stated goals even though its going to be dumb old ESOPs probably and not give workers any meaningful control.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:26

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Isn't gambling on a narrow vision of revolution like, the foundational myth of America?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:32

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

fishing with the fam posted:

This is the first debate I've watched. Have they all been this lit?

Not even close.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:34

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Ague Proof posted:

lmao

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 04:38

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Arist posted:

What were those protesters trying to say?

I thought I heard 'The Scottish Independence Referendum was thwarted by the CIA and MI6 and by rights the crown has no authority north of Hadrian's Wall' but maybe I'm projecting.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 05:00

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Fox is saying Trump won lmao

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 05:06

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Fox saying that 'in the big big picture' Trump won but in the 'Democratic picture' Bernie won.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 05:08

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

I am not sure whether the delegate question was meant as a softball for Bernie or as a grenade for the Democratic party. In this primary it's easy to envision a scenario where Bernie gets a plurality of delegates but not actually enough to win the nomination straight up. It made logical and ethical sense for the other candidates to say that they wouldn't automatically support Bernie in that scenario, especially since his voter % would very probably be significantly less than his delegate %. It was, frankly, smarmy of Bernie to not cut that line of questioning off at the knees.

How do you figure it makes ethical sense?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 05:35

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

It's an assumption made with the full knowledge its imperfect. We could build a more responsive system today, but these systems were the best available when devised. And TL;DR inertia.

I'm making no such assumption at all. If Bernie has such support, he should come through the convention just fine. Bernie is not *owed* the nomination in the scenario of getting a questionable plurality.

In this hypothetical, Bernie would be the major beneficiary of anti-democratic flaws in the first past the vote voting systems. Anyone who cares enough to post in this thread has probably bitched about FPTP and the electoral college being counter-democratic bullshit. Well, it's time to put up or shut up in that regard. Do you love FPTP as long as it benefits your guy?

Given that the choice you're presenting is two imperfectly democratic systems, (not to mention the presence of un-elected unaccountable super-delegates): yeah, it seems better to me to nominate the person with the most votes.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 06:03

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Lol.

I wonder what other principles you guys are willing to throw away if the will of the majority is on the chopping block already.

To your mind, allowing the candidates to apportion delegates as they see fit and also allowing a bunch more delegates who don't represent any electorate at all decide to nominate someone who did not get the most votes and delegates is a more democratic system than giving the nomination to the person with the most votes?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 06:10

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Personally I think its obvious that FPTP is a bad and undemocratic system. It is not at all obvious to me that a brokered convention is a more democratic system, particularly given recent history.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 06:11

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Deadly Shoes point seems to be that if the rules, admittedly un-democratic though they may be, allow the party to nominate a candidate who did not win the most popular votes and delegates then it is an ethical imperative that they do that??

They seem to conceive of delegates as elected representatives who must be trusted to re-allocate their votes to a less popular candidate without it being neccessary for their to be any actual mechanisms in place to inform that decision and also they seem to think it would be damaging to the position they've staked out to even acknowledge super delegates exist.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 08:46

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Put another way: if you've criticized the un-fair un-democratic system currently in place then it is hypocritical to win an electoral victory within that system.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 08:48

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/02/sanders-demolishes-bloomberg-buttigieg-and-klobuchar-head-to-head-says-new-poll.html

Very interesting (and encouraging to a Warren supporter like myself.)

though i really dont understand the thought process of like a 1st Choice KLOBSTER 2nd Bernie voter (insert 1st choice as needed)

Lmfao

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 09:17

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Mercrom posted:

Would you still support FPTP over the delegate system if the race was between 5 flavors of leftists and Bloomberg with a tiny lead?

The next election the nazi party will most likely win a plurality in my country. I'm voting for the leftmost party as long as they are prepared to make deals with the neoliberal parties if necessary to keep the nazis out of government.

If I found myself in almost the exact opposite situation than the one I'm in now I'm willing to believe my feelings would be different. Also I don't think most of us are arguing FPTP is good, we're saying that party functionaries giving the nomination to a less popular candidate with less chance of winning, worse (in many cases dramatically) policies and an anti-worker pro-capital ideology would be bad.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 10:31

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

MSDOS KAPITAL posted:

it's fine, it's fine

I've taken care of it

# ¿ Feb 20, 2020 23:22

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

VitalSigns posted:

In a proper voting system that absurd situation isn't possible at all.

That was an extreme example but that problem would occur all the time, because under approval voting the candidate preferred by a majority isn't guaranteed to win.

It's time to do the right thing once and for all and institute full consensus decision making with mandated non-violent communication training.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2020 05:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 13, 2024 21:02

Crumbskull: Sep 13, 2005; The worker and the soil

Nonsense posted:

This is where we will be happy to go if they keep pushing this Russia horsehit.

https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1230905109296496641?s=20

I keep cracking up imagining the whole reason he is running is so he can make sure there is no deeper investigation into Epstein.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2020 21:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Nevada Democratic Primary Debate 2020: The Hunt For The Wild Bloomberg