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So having finished the game, the core idea of FFVII Remake is basically this: "You know what happens in the story and so there is no real tension." The entire game spends its time setting up tension of "wait, IS something going to change?" and then it is forced back on track in intentionally crappy feeling ways. The game genuinely wants you to think Wedge or Jessie can survive or that maybe Barret's death was genuinely going to stick. The ending, as ridiculously anime as it is, is basically going "hey, we've stopped that. poo poo is off the rails. You can no longer assure characters will live/die based on if they did in the original. The end goal of the characters is the same but there is no longer any assurance that characters will survive or succeed because they did in the original." And while I was kind of iffy on it at first it honestly makes me more excited for the second part, assuming they take the same care and effort as they did with this part. I don't expect them to go full crazytown but I do think they'll twist things in interesting ways. Aerith living OR dying both feel possible at this point and that's kind of interesting. I would be annoyed if they were going off into crazytown but the ending makes it clear they're still going on the same journey but without the assurance of success. Basically Nomura watched Rebuild of Evangelion and went "yes, that."
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Apr 9, 2020 01:26
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cock hero flux posted:really this game has written a lot of loving checks and we're going to be waiting a few years to see if they bounce or not It has but honestly FF7R hit so many notes well that it earned my faith. It has a strong base to build on but it was faithful to a degree I never expected while still managing to flesh things out. All the characters still feel like the characters. The absurd blend of dead serious drama and inexplicably humor is still there. They use lines from the original but flesh out enough around them that they feel meaningful. Wedge, Biggs and Jessie go from those random guys I barely remembered to characters I was rooting for to survive. Don Corneo is still a creepy craven coward but you get a few glimpses of why exactly he's feared as well. The Turks are lovely company men who come up with justifications for their awful actions after the fact and you can see both why they do it and why it might not sit well with them. If the game just ended right after the Motorball fight it would have been anticlimatic but otherwise above and beyond what I could have expected from a FF7 Remake. The last 5% of the game is batshit insane anime but at very least they have shown they have a really good grasp on exactly what made FF7 feel special. If the entire rest of the game leading up to that had been any less pitch perfect I would have called the ending game-ruining but as it stands it actually earned my trust by feeling like the game I played so many years ago. Like say what you want about the insane anime poo poo, the game hits so many notes well. Like they hit Cloud perfectly mixing confidence and being a dork in equal measure in a way I genuinely thought Square-Enix had forgotten existed. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 01:56
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  Also this is probably my favorite moment in the game.
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Apr 9, 2020 02:02
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JBP posted:My main thing in RPGs beyond the story is if I like spending time with the characters. I really like these characters a lot and the extra interactions were all pretty good. Yeah like... honestly FFVIIR works for me because the cast is immensely endearing. I don't know who they got to translate this one but I hope to go they keep them on staff because they nailed it. But the big reason I'm okay with how it ends is because I like these characters. I am perfectly glad to spend another game with them even if it goes into weird places plotwise because at the end of the day even if it goes full insanity as long as the character writing remains as solid and strong I'll be there for the latest Wild Ride.
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Apr 9, 2020 02:08
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JBP posted:Just FYI everything online seems to claim you can regain mp at benches on hard, but you can't. You need to ration your mp for the entire chapter and sometimes it takes planning. You'll probably want to use the weapons that naturally regen MP for whoever your mage is (probably Aerith or Cloud in my experience) and of course Aerith better be sucking MP from anything that gets staggered. Hardest parts will probably be the parts without her. Thankfully the Shinra Combat Simulator allows you to bring her in. Edit: Also Prayer. Do not sleep on Prayer. I made Tifa my default healer for a while because she builds ATB so quickly and Prayer is a massive free AoE heal.
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Apr 9, 2020 02:25
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Spite posted:Yet none of his games have been on time or on budget. Uh, what? Nomura is actually extremely good at getting games out on time and for reasonable budgets. Almost everything he has directed has come out relatively quickly. Versus XIII did not but Versus XIII was all kinds of a behind the scenes clusterfuck. Part of the reason they want Nomura on this stuff is because when poo poo isn't all kinds of hosed up with their workflow he actually gets games out. A major problem with Versus XIII wasn't Nomura but the entire Square-Enix bullshit because Nomura was still regularly directing and releasing games at the time, just not Versus XIII. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 03:49
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Harrow posted:I still think Aerith's gonna die at some point in the remake series. I think they'll fake us out and it'll happen in an unexpected and maybe extra tragic way but I bet it'll happen. Honestly I kind of expect this too. By setting it up so that Aerith can possibly survive you make it super expected. A major thing with the whole "Remake" thing is that FF7 had a Good End. Sephiroth for whatever reason appears to be the one pushing for a do-over because it means he can succeed. The protagonists don't have a clear idea of what they're throwing away while Sephiroth at least seems to have some idea.
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Apr 9, 2020 05:14
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Of course Aeris will die. The twist will be that Tifa also dies, pushed under Aeris right as she is impaled for the double yakitori. And then Cloud will finally be free to elope with Sephiroth. I'm sorry but having playing FFVIIR there is no way that Cloud wouldn't move on to Rufus Shinra in a heartbeat. Their battle in-game was like five seconds away from makeouts at any given moment. JBP posted:The thing is that the whispers force poo poo to happen that's different. They trap Wedge on a spot where he is guaranteed to fall into a subterranean lab beneath sector 7's slums and live. They're also whirling around Biggs when you locate him on the tower and he is revealed to live. They are not preserving the passage of time from the first game. I got the impression Wedge just managed to escape. There's some indications he's been running into the ghosts multiple times since he survived. He was basically getting lucky until he wasn't. Biggs living may have something to do with defeating the Whispers. They absolutely are trying to at least preserve the idea of the timeline. Things can change as long as the pieces don't get too out of place. The reason they're bothering Aerith early on is because Cloud got sidetracked and if they hadn't slowed her down they wouldn't have bumped into each other. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 05:33
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Weird BIAS posted:A more boring take from the developers would be for them to be trying to reconcile the ending of FF7 and the spin-off nonsense that occured in it's wake. Like FF7 was a very ambiguous ending for the cast but also very explicit in showing that Midgar was abandoned and reclaimed by nature. The Red XIII scene is 500 years later, it even says as much. Advent Children is set relatively shortly afterwards. It takes time to abandon a city when the vast majority of its population are poor as poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2020 05:38
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JBP posted:Wedge is pinned by the whispers with his cats in the scene of the plate falling, right on the spot the hole opens up. It makes sure cloud gets to see the Shinra lab, but it's nothing compared to Hojo's and there's no real reason the whispers would save Wedge. Biggs may have gotten lucky, but once again he's just alive back with his old gf at the orphanage and he had swirling whispers on the tower. Right, but we've seen Wedge push through Whispers before. The Whispers are not actually that capable of stopping things. (It's also worth noting two out of three cats seem to be dead.  ) The Whispers don't seem to care about Cloud finding the lab until he seems about to stumble on to something and then they kick them all out. With Biggs I genuinely think the idea there is that he was supposed to die and the protagonists actions have changed that. He didn't survive in the original timeline and he is alive in this one but we only see him alive after they defeat the Whispers. I assume this also plays into what happened with Zack. (Because that sure fucks time pretty bad.)
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Apr 9, 2020 07:10
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JBP posted:I don't think holy killed anyone. Meteor actually did some of its job because holy went off too late. It needed the boost from Aeris. I'd always thought that Midgar people got killed while people in far flung areas survived. Holy was unleashed too late and while it was stopping Meteor, both were so close to the planet that the resulting explosion would have been bad for everyone. The Lifestream appeared and pushed Holy AND Meteor away from the planet. The end result was that the damage was minimized. (As shown by the fact that Midgar was still intact at the end, even if overgrown.) There is some argument about ambiguity "did Holy then kill all the humans afterwards??" but the fact that both Holy and Meteor were pushed away and the last shot is Aerith smiling seems to indicate "probably not." It's ambiguous intentionally but there is plenty of evidence for humanity surviving too.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:31
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I am not really sure that Sephiroth is any more edgy than he was in the original. Dude was incredibly extra and over-dramatic.
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Apr 10, 2020 02:35
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Dehry posted:So I just popped in to a random streamer showing this game and they were in some kind of shop with a wind up music player of some sort. Weird remixes of songs is one of the collectables. Including the vocal theme song of Stamp the Dog
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Apr 10, 2020 04:51
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A Sometimes Food posted:Little bummed that there's no FF15 style fishing, but I get it being set in Midgar. They better add it to the next one where you're wandering all over the wilderness though. This has so many minigames I am absolutely positive they will add fishing at some point in the next one. Probably around Junon or Wutai or something.
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Apr 10, 2020 05:17
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Gologle posted:I just watched someone play the Rufus fight and...are they flirting with each other? Yes. Cloud and Rufus is basically them going on a date via fighting.
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Apr 10, 2020 21:23
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VagueRant posted:I think there is something to be said for liking the subtlty of a name coming up a few times, then suddenly an open jail cell, a trail of blood and the sword in the back of the presumed main antagonist to introduce a mysterious villain who has a past with our protagonist 1/5th of the way through The problem is that you can't recapture that particular flame. Everyone who is going to play this game knows who Sephiroth is. There is no surprise there. You can't quite recapture that feeling and that's something Remake takes pretty central to heart. It doesn't attempt to hide the secrets it knows its playerbase knows but instead tries to invest them in new ones. It's a debate if it works or not but it's absolutely not a "they don't understand foreshadowing" but a "they know absolutely that people already know this character and his deal." It's telling that a big chunk of the game involves the fate of Wedge of all characters because that is something the player isn't sure about.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:54
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redreader posted:Now that people have played this for presumably 15 hours or more: How is it? There is a lot of filler in that it spends a lot more time developing characters and the setting. There are a couple of new areas but nowhere super significant. The materia system is kind of in between. You get a good amount of strong Materia and a number of summons you didn't get until much later but you're not going to be doing mime-final-cut stuff.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:17
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JBP posted:The second last Shinra vr battle is hosed. Too much opportunity to just get RNGd out unless there's something I don't understand about when a tonberry will cast doom and gloom. I also can't see any no instant death materia/items Warding + Subversion is instant death immunity.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:55
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:Did I miss All materia, or has it just not come up yet (because obviously it's really good)? I'm in Chapter 8 working on the Sector 5 sidequests. It has a different name now. It's the Magnify materia and it's fairly rare. IIRC it's from one of Chadley's things
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Apr 11, 2020 05:50
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VagueRant posted:Best summary of how hard it goes from relatively normal to AC/KH: That would work if you ignore all the other times it goes full crazy anime battle before the first scene you posted
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Apr 11, 2020 19:46
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homeless snail posted:Nah that's a different guy are sick, the one from the original game is #2, the dude that's scaring the kids in sector 5. Marko is #49 or whatever which is crazy on its own merits cause there's only supposed to be 12 of them #2 is the one who Sephiroth uses to steal Jenova
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Apr 12, 2020 01:07
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Funky Valentine posted:Do you think the next installments will spell out the whole "the Sephiroth you've been chasing since Shinra Headquarters is really just JENOVA that thinks it's Sephiroth" thing or just quietly bury it. They already made it clear that the Sephiroth is not Sephiroth. It keeps flashing between him and the black robed individual he actually is. darealkooky posted:cool game where cloud and barret go from not being able to smash through a door to cutting through buildings within the span of like a day in-universe This is a really dumb complaint because character power levels shifting suddenly at a heartbeat is commonplace in games (including the original FFVII) and nowhere is that more clear than when they have to find a key for a wooden door or whatever.
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Apr 13, 2020 04:36
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darealkooky posted:the fact that you're using a 23 year old game with lego people in it to justify this, as if ironing out those Weird 90's Videogame Things wasn't one of the stated goals behind The Final Fantasy Seven Remake, is pretty odd. No, I'm not using a 23 year old game with lego people. I can point to literally every game ever. How many games do you have a rocket launcher and you need to find a key instead of blowing open a wall? Or how many games don't let you step over a five inch piece of rubble to get where you need to go? How many games have your character do something super kickin' rad and then they have to play a level normally? You have a Persona 4 Avatar and I must question why characters go through dungeons instead of using the literal incarnate god to fly through them. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 04:56
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darealkooky posted:Do you really think this is the same thing as being able to slice a building in half but not a door inside that building? Yes? Your complaint is "why do characters not use their power to do something they couldn't do previously or show an inconsistent level of power.." It's nonsensical because it's a part of games. Cloud and friends shrug off bullets in combat and yet treat President Shinra holding a gun on Barret like it actually loving matters. Mortal Kombat characters get their legs broken in three places during X-Ray moves and then get back up and keep fighting like nothing happened. The answer is "because game power levels are inconsistent and fueled by what feels cool at the moment not what actually is plausible" because it turns out using your rocket launcher to blow up every puzzle would get boring pretty quickly.
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Apr 13, 2020 05:10
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darealkooky posted:Anyway it seems people don't agree so I'll leave it with this instead of dragging out an argument. My point isn't "buh why can barret shoot a laser from his hand but he doesn't just shoot badguys from a distance in the story" or something that pedestrian, I understand that games and jrpgs in particular often have pretty big gaps between gameplay and what logically could make sense in the story in order to make the gameplay more engaging or give you bs objectives. And my point is that you are still making genuinely zero sense because that is true of almost every game on the market. Are you taken out of The Last of Us because Joel can survive getting shot, stabbed, and set on fire and keep going but then the game treats him being shot once as a serious thing? In Doom Eternal your character can survive being launched like a missile into the side of a building by a literal cannon but dies if a monster bites him too many times. Not to mention the billion games which ask you to treat generic mooks as a threat in-story even though you could probably reliable murder them all if you got the chance. FF7 didn't particularly have consistent power level either. It really can't when the protagonist is attempting to portray himself as a literal super soldier and his teammates are "incredibly good at kung--fu girl" "Man with a literal gun for an arm" "Flower Girl" "Talking dog" "Teenage ninja" "Weird vampire experiment" and "schlubby dude in his mid-30s" and they're all treated as equally dangerous.
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Apr 13, 2020 05:26
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The entire Whispers thing is them destroying the idea of a set plot which in turn allows for more character-driven stuff because you're not longer assured that every story will have the exact same outcome it did in 1997. They even give an example of it in-game with Wedge whose survival is a very small part of things but takes the story in slightly different directions which add a tension to the narrative that wouldn't be there otherwise.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:22
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NikkolasKing posted:Zack is a nobody who was never loved by Aeith, got owned off-screen by Sephiroth in five seconds and then died to two Shinra mooks. This isn't even true if you only play the original FF7.
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Apr 14, 2020 00:43
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Kunsel also gets namedropped in the remake by the trooper in Shinra HQ who recognized cloud! Yeah I felt so bad for him. You know that soldier was like "Hey, remember the guy who went with Zack? HE'S HERE." and then everything exploded.
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Apr 14, 2020 01:07
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Big Scary Owl posted:Speaking of weird side characters, I wonder if they'll do anything with Cissnei in the next parts of the remake. I don't think she is ever mentioned in anything after Crisis Core. Canonically all the non-Rude/Reno/Tseng Turks are MIA (in hiding) after the events of their game. She's one of them. Cissnei actually first showed up in Before Crisis but she didn't get a name until CC.
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Apr 14, 2020 02:05
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Yeah, the thing I think is interesting about the Arbiter thing is that you're not defying a *bad* ending, you're defying a mostly *good* ending. That's something more interesting to me because so many good endings rely on a number of specific events that even changing one can leave you scrambling.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:27
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Blockhouse posted:Yeah just like those famously bad FFXIV Dark Knight quests People sure hate those Nier games.
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Apr 14, 2020 21:53
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CottonWolf posted:On this, I fully get why Seph wanted to kill the Whispers. He loses otherwise. I don't get Aerith et al's motivation, apart from "these drat ghosts aren't letting me do what I want". I mean Aerith's motivation of "I'd really rather not die" is reasonably justified. She spends a lot of this game talking about how she dislikes the inevitability of a dark fate and whatnot.
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Apr 14, 2020 23:12
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Clarste posted:I mean the purple glowing blood is one thing, but everything else about the sequence is also worse imo. Like, Shinra still being alive and left hanging off a ledge for some reason. And simply not walking through previously normal floors that were now filled with creepy monsters. Like, if the blood trail had gone through the lobby or whatever that would've changed the tone significantly. It just wasn't remotely creepy in the new one, like they weren't even trying. I agree with this. I do understand needing more from Shinra since he was an actual presence and not like four lines at the start of the game but they really should have made the Shinra earlier floors a monster-filled area leading up to it.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:15
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Mordiceius posted:The Nier games/FFXIV Dark Knight quests aren't a remake of an already existing game. It's apples vs oranges. People liked Resident Evil 2 Remake a whole lot too despite it cutting or changing significant portions of the game. Or the Yakuza Kiwami remakes. The dark secret of the Evangelion movies is that people liked when it was changing things to be more Super Robot and not to be more Evangelion.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:39
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MoaM posted:Are you think of RE3 Remake? RE2 Remake is incredibly faithful. No, I'm thinking of RE2. Among the things I've seen brought up are: The A and B scenarios don't interact the way they do in the same game. The final laboratory area is extremely trimmed down and has quite a few things removed. Weapons (like the crossbow) removed from the game entirely. Plot changes like Sherry's pendent no longer containing a G-Virus sample and Chief Irons being full-on evil from the moment you meet him instead of having one 'creepy' moment and various other things that people say ruins elements of the game.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:26
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Mordiceius posted:I hope you're not being willfully dense and can understand the difference between this and "we're creating a new timeline/alternate universe." If your complain is "a reboot creates a new timeline/universe" then I'll point you to like... half the reboots on the market. Tomb Raider isn't the same as classic Tomb Raider which wasn't the same as Tomb Raider Anniversary. The fact that it was justified 'in-canon' also doesn't change much because that is fairly popular too, even outside of games, like how Star Trek justified its new universe through plot bullshit
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Apr 15, 2020 01:43
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MoaM posted:What exactly was the point of Crisis Core?... Crisis Core was specifically to fill in Zack's history and backstory, which was largely undocumented since the only real time you see him are in brief flashbacks and one completely optional scene that wasn't even in the original Japanese release of FF7. It actually does a really good job of it, stupid Gackt stuff aside. Zack's personality and character is really well developed and he ends up being something more than just "that guy who died" which in turn actually does a fairly good job of adding extra weight to Cloud's history and friendship. It was enough to turn him from an obscure nobody to a guy who generally ranks fairly highly on FF popularity lists. It also lends some backstory/world building to other stuff, some of which is stupid and some of which actually does a nice job of fleshing out empty periods of the story (like the war with Wutai.) ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 01:50
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homeless snail posted:It adds nothing, it just expands on the Zack Fair parts of FF7 in a way that's kinda cool to see. Ignore literally everything else about it that isn't based on a FF7 flashback Eh, I wouldn't agree with that. Some of the best bits of it are Aerith and Zack hanging out (largely because in Japan they were voiced by a real-life married couple and so they banter with legitimate charisma) and a few other things. Like you actually get to see Sephiroth acting like a sane person which makes what happens to him afterwards feel more shocking rather than "this guy we knew was batshit is in fact batshit." Also The Price of Freedom is a top tier FF song. I would say that CC is strongest when it is fleshing out events from FF7 and weakest when it is doing its own thing. Kind of like FFVIIR! Clarste posted:I can only play they downplay Genesis in the remake-sequels though, because gently caress Genesis. I hope he's not popular in Japan. I mean Genesis gets a very brief namedrop in this (when Hojo is talking about 'mating' Aerith) but considering that apparently Gackt doesn't want to do anything more with FF I think they'll leave it at that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 01:54
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Clarste posted:For those who never played Crisis Core, Genesis is another Sephiroth who tries to be even more Sephiroth. Even prettier hair, even more pretentious dialog, and even more angelic motifs. To be more clear: Genesis was an attempt to try a different method of making a Sephiroth but one that failed miserably and starts decaying. He becomes obsessed with a poem because he thinks it holds the secret to not dissolving into a horrifying pile of jenova goo and dedicates himself to trying to live out that poem while everyone else around him is like "what the gently caress?" That's right. Genesis isn't Sephiroth. He's Seifer.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:59
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Honestly it annoys me that Wedge survives (possibly even gets saved at the end by the whispers???), Biggs also somehow lives but we get no explicit reveal of Jessie living. It was pointed out that next to Biggs on the counter where his bandanna is also is Jessie's gloves. So there's a good chance she's alive. And Wedge may be dead. The Whispers were pushing him towards a window, we hear a smash, and his last lines of dialogue are the same lines of dialogue they were in the original game during his death scene
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Apr 15, 2020 03:01
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