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has no one drawn a comparison between FF7R's destiny angle and its still-present ecological themes, as in how the party's struggle against the seemingly inevitable events of the original series canon is now akin to how environmentalist causes are now a struggle against inevitable ecological collapse because that's my angle and i'm sticking to it
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Apr 21, 2020 18:03
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Pollyanna posted:I really like this interpretation. one of my biggest concerns for the remake is that the environmentalist themes would be neutered, but they've actually done a reasonably effective job of updating it to the modern day, especially in regards to how the rapaciousness of the ruling classes is enabled by the complacency of the people below them regardless of their own morality - e.g. barret's "good men are not without sin" speech. the protagonists are likewise fighting for a good cause, but the general flow of events they're following is leading them to disaster. both groups have to recognize and take a stand against the manipulation of greater forces in order to change their futures, even if it's totally futile in the end maybe too close to nier automata's schtick to be the intended aim, but the environmentalist themes in this game are too prevalent for me to consider them mere set dressing for the You Can (Not) Remake shenanigans with the Whispers
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Apr 21, 2020 18:18
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Zaa Boogie posted:I just find it weird that people are quick to go 'NOMURA! p sure that was nojima and kitase, nomura was strictly a character designer on the original game's team
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Apr 21, 2020 20:02
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' when it's because of him that we have the definitive emotional moment that's happened in an RPG.
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dios mio, i just realized that if/when gold saucer is introduced we are absolutely going to encounter Roche at the chocobo track
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Apr 21, 2020 20:05
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chocobo with motorcycle handlebars and an exhaust pipe
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Apr 21, 2020 20:06
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Rhonne posted:I wonder if the fact that he could see the Whispers too is supposed to mean anything. pretty sure that was just because he was about to gently caress up the canon by spilling the beans early about cloud's origins, so they manifested to him directly and carted him out of there they definitely nailed hojo's design, stubbly motherfucker's got a mouth like a fleshy toad Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 22:25
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speaking of hojo adjacent characters I am also in love with what they did with Red XIII and his presence was enough to excuse the entire Drum for me he shows instant synergy with the entire team, barret wants to be his bestie but has to work off the “lab rat-dog” wisecrack first, and for all his stoic shamanistic posturing his brief “you okay?” when he bailed out cloud was genuinely tender god bless my endangered magic edgy teen catdog son
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Apr 21, 2020 22:46
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hence why you can only encounter him there before resting, when there’s still a fully armed and supplied Shinra battleship within earshot
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Apr 21, 2020 22:54
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Flopsy posted:Those people are 20 year old beach bums who carefully follow the news and know how important he is? Hojo never came off as the sort seeking attention or fame. He just wanted opportunity to tear people apart at his leisure. I don't think he'd appreciate a lot of spotlight. his natural oiliness gives him a divine tan
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Apr 21, 2020 23:12
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cheetah7071 posted:Speaking of this, did OG FF7 have a better explanation for why the party decides Sephiroth is worth dropping everything to pursue than Aerith cryptically and suddenly getting a message from the planet that he's bad news because that part was pretty weak in the remake instead of the Drum, the original game has the cast being locked up in holding cells and falling asleep, then waking to find that the cells are open and all the executive floors are a bloodbath with the president impaled to his desk by a seven-foot tall sword. this is literally the first time sephiroth's name is mentioned in the game outside of flashbacks after they escape midgar and are trying to work out their next move, cloud insists they pursue sephiroth, and fills them all in on his (dubiously accurate) backstory to justify his reasoning
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Apr 21, 2020 23:40
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cock hero flux posted:president shinra mentions him once in reactor 5 second time, then! it must be speculated how uncomfortable the rest of the party must be during the sephiroth-pursuit segment of the game. their team "leader," who's gotten that position by dint of being the most competent-seeming one of the group, is yanking them along on a flimsily justified and borderline obsessive fixation on a legendary super-soldier who just carved up the better part of shinra's c-suited and impaled a twenty-meter tall snake to a tree on his way out. they keep encountering him, but he either doesn't recognize cloud or turns into a giant tentacle monster or both. tifa keeps giving cloud increasingly distressed looks and whenever someone asks him for clarification about his history with sephiroth he suffers a blinding migraine and then changes the subject
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Apr 21, 2020 23:47
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Xarbala posted:I'll be perfectly honest I do kinda think the timeghosts are kind of lol and hokey is just about the right word I'd use for them (lmao at them swarming Aerith for no discernible reason other than "she's not standing in the spot she needs to be in order to meet Cloud"), but I'm down with the shakeup and the changes were what got me excited about the remake to begin with. final fantasy VII has so much cultural cachet, not just with its audience but also with its creators, that i can sort of understand the development team making a megabudget boss battle out of what is almost literally the original game's canon hell, yoko taro got a 15-minute rhythm section when he wrote an ending with a horde of polite android shopkeepers conspiring to murder his breakout game's canon story, so why not
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Apr 22, 2020 02:53
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when i first saw Red crack off Stardust Ray my brain went "OH MY GOD HE'S DOING THE THIIIIIIING"
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Apr 22, 2020 03:41
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lezard_valeth posted:I hope Red's abilities and limits are more useful in part 2. Always liked him but god drat is he bad in OG 7 given how fearsome dogs are in FF7R i'm more worried about him becoming too powerful
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Apr 22, 2020 04:12
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rufus: "i have the power of dog and anime on my side"
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Apr 22, 2020 04:33
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pretty much everything involving sephiroth was a clunker for me, he's the only element of the original game that's succumbed entirely to its own hype
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Apr 22, 2020 04:50
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god please let me see red XIII come back home please let me see him quietly die inside as bugenhagen greets him with scritches behind the ears and he's unable to hide how much he likes it my biggest concern with the sudden overdose of nomura's trademark metaphysics is that it often gives characters no time to do anything but exposit about the convoluted soul/heart/time poo poo that's strangling the plot
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Apr 22, 2020 16:00
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The Doomhammer posted:Now that I've finished the game, I wonder how necessary the whispers even are. Considering how many people I've seen play hoping/convinced that Biggs, Wedge and Jessie would be spared this go around, I honestly feel they could just... change things in the plot, and if those changes were compelling people might just accept them. Or at least accept them more than they'd accept 'Plot Ghosts did it.' i think that final fantasy vii has become as intimidatingly monolithic to its creators as it has for much of the public, and nomura especially has lately gotten pretty blatant about textualizing his own creative struggles and frustrations - just look at the poo poo he pulled with the KH3 epilogue so he wrote in this giant metaphysical antagonist that symbolizes the efforts of himself and the development team to overcome the sanctity of the original game, so that in order for cloud and co. to leave midgar - itself maybe the most iconic location in jrpg's - they need to literally kill the past of their own franchise suda51 would probably approve
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Apr 22, 2020 16:11
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i'll admit the same thing jumped to my mind too, but part of what made ME3's awful ending so explosive was that the developers fully intended to end the series on all those questions FF7R doesn't, and even if the rest of the series doesn't get made (which is likely!) its own bananas conclusion is still a neat metaphor about the creators of a seminal work trying to break away from that work's influence
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Apr 22, 2020 17:48
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Harrow posted:I guess part of it is that we don't know where it's going from here. The "like Kingdom Hearts" thing people are most afraid of, I think, is that the story becomes all about plot and lore babble and the characters just fall by the wayside. One of the reasons I really can't stand Kingdom Hearts as a story is that there aren't really any characters--they're plot robots who ask for or spout exposition. chapter 18 of 7R was definitely an exposition dump, and Red's main purpose during his brief time in the story was to drop exposition about the Whispers (though he had more fun character moments in those few hours than the entire cast of KH3 combined) now that nomura's going totally off in his own direction there's a serious chance that he'll disappear up his own rear end like what happened with kingdom hearts, but that's a worry for a time that may never even arrive on account of the world ending and all Ms Adequate posted:e; I have grown increasingly smug about Kingdom Hearts over the years because when I first played it at release I was like "This is a big bag of poo poo" and now everyone else finally agrees the first game was pretty great! it still holds up if you excuse the shoddy camera and mostly felt like the fun crossover it was intended to be from the second mainline game onward the story was steadily eaten alive by a cast of characters identical save for their haircuts who existed for no other purpose than to spout po-faced exposition while disney's lawyers pressed for increasingly byzantine rules over the rest of the content Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 21:39
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lezard_valeth posted:idk about this. I think this scene is pretty clear that Sephiroth is drinking the Whisper juice after you defeat them my read on the final confrontation was that sephiroth duped the party into fighting the whispers, waited until the battle was done and they were all weakened, and then sucked the whispers up and tried to use their power to wipe the whole party at once, hence why he nearly nuked everyone with the "memory" of Meteor at the end of his battle he fails, but still wins, because his "defeat" purges the whispers and their influence from the plotline completely and gives him another shot at total victory. he tries briefly to coerce cloud into helping him out, but when cloud refuses he just shrugs and goes off to do his own thing, probably because cloud is still full of jenova juice and sephiroth can manipulate him in subtler ways
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Apr 22, 2020 23:30
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Harrow posted:See, I figure the group wasn't necessarily duped into fighting the Whispers, if only because Aerith seems to know what she's doing. If nothing else, maybe Aerith and Sephiroth each have their own reasons for wanting the Whispers gone. Also, why would the Whispers been trying to stop the group from leaving Midgar at that point, anyway? That's when they're supposed to leave Midgar--why form a huge wall? yeah it's tough to guess at the Whispers' intentions because they're a mute hivemind that views time non-linearly, but given that they really started to go off their collective trolley when sephiroth re-emerged at the shinra tower i think they were reacting to him at the end of midgar, not the party. but as aeris says, the planet's cries don't reach him, because his jenova-poisoned soul exists outside its cycle of life and death, so he's instead able to subvert them for his own ends. he carves them open and baits cloud and co. into crossing over into another possible world, and it's only then that the Whispers really go ballistic on the heroes specifically aeris' own motivations are also unclear because she plays her cards so close to her chest, but i think she starts the game off with fatalistic foreknowledge of what's to come but slowly breaks out of it after her intervention at Sector 7 saves so many people, so that by the time the endgame rolls around she's full on YOLO about defying the planet's will
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Apr 22, 2020 23:37
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Flopsy posted:
nomura has repeatedly made it clear in increasingly non-jokey ways that he is, at best, tired of working on the kingdom hearts franchise and at worst despises it. he's said that he fantasizes about ways to destroy sora personally. he's also incredibly bitter about being booted off the versus XIII project after years of playing grab-rear end/getting shoved into more KH projects instead so the KH3 epilogue is basically him announcing his intent to redo FFXV his own way even if it means turning the entire kingdom hearts franchise into a stealth prequel for it
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Apr 22, 2020 23:40
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ex--excuse me...what?
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yeah the Whispers are still nominally on the party's side right up until they take sephiroth's bait and exit the timeline, at which point they go "DID SOMEONE ORDER A KAIJU"
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Apr 22, 2020 23:42
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i think the Whispers are done. aeris says that their showdown at the portal is their final line of defense, which makes sense because it's also the exit from midgar - it's the threshold dividing the enclosed, safe environment of franchise canon from whatever 'nanners bullshit the devs can cook up if they've been unleashed from it. the opalescent supernova that engulfs sephiroth when the party smacks him down probably signifies the last of his Whisper mojo getting knocked out of him as well, which is dandy for him because he's still got plenty of jenova flesh to throw around
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Apr 22, 2020 23:49
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lezard_valeth posted:One thing I will give recent KH games credit for is the Master of Masters (yes, that's his name. yes, it's incredibly stupid) writing a Book of Prophecies that can tell the future, and then proceed to rip his eye off, put it in a sword and instruct his apprentice to pass it down to his own apprentice and so on and so forth so that that way he can see the future and write the Book of Prophecies in the first place That is such a badass concept, almost Nordic mythology like, that I wish would belong to a better game. the master of masters is the best character in the kingdom hearts franchise because he has absolutely no respect for the story he inhabits, which is really just another damning point against the story itself
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Apr 22, 2020 23:50
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Flopsy posted:I always wondered how ALL the voice actors felt being given this pile of drivel to work with. A lot of the lines and takes are so weird and robotic I feel like they had to have struggled to figure out what sort of tone to take with half of that poo poo. How exactly is one supposed to sound discussing the nature of your many other selves? Contemplative? Morose? Amused? I dunno. ben diskin did a little expose about the voice direction for KH and it's about as nightmarish as you can expect. actors are given no history of the characters or context for their lines, they're just shown clips of the japanese performances and told to match the pacing and "emotion" of those lines as much as possible incidentally the english voice director for every KH game after the first was bob buchholtz, who has a murderer's row of awful credits to his name, including the Type-0 dub
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Apr 23, 2020 00:10
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really wonder what it was about CC2's draft that got nomura's hackles up so much their combat systems tend to be mediocre at best and nomura has a borderline-fetish for those so that may have been one point against it
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Apr 23, 2020 00:42
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:He wasn't a corpse. He was the Sephiroth carrying Jenova's body yeah it's likely that the sephiroth who was hounding cloud right up until the JENOVA battle was actually marco being used as a meat puppet
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Apr 23, 2020 01:02
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how high did they go up to in the original game? and i think tifa's assessment of marco's "character" was just her being nice, as far as she's concerned the guy is a harmless invalid who needs a roof over his head and an occasional check-up to make sure he hasn't died of starvation
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Apr 23, 2020 01:07
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personally i'm really, really happy that the clones are the same moaning ciphers as in the original as i said in another thread, we did not need another organization XIII
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Apr 23, 2020 01:09
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better than wave after wave of genesises geneses? genesii?
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Apr 23, 2020 01:25
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Flopsy posted:What's it with the Japanese and anything over 20 being a senior citizen anyway? japan has a notoriously rigid and repressed work culture, which leads many of their adults to view their childhood (high school in particular) as the only point in their lives when they had any sort of freedom
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Apr 23, 2020 18:28
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tifa gets slashed at city of the ancients and falls down the stairs similarly to her encounter with sephiroth at the nibelheim reactor, only this time she doesn't get back up. sephiroth's attempt to kill aeris as well is intercepted by zack, who takes aeris on their own route as cloud abandons the party out of guilt/disgust at letting events turn out this way. hojo continues on his trek to the northern crater having injected himself with jenova cells early in response to his confrontation with the whispers, creating his own "reunion" with plans to supplant sephiroth in a perverse celebration of the surpassing adaptability of the human race. in this fanfiction i will
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Apr 23, 2020 20:33
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zedprime posted:If we take Sephiroth as metatextually aware his goal seems like keep the holy materia out of the Lifestream. Aerith can still die in that plan but the algebra works out that living Aerith probably has less chance to hold on to holy materia than dead Aerith with the materia in the Lifestream. holy activated because aeris petitioned the planet to make it work, not because it fell into the water (though that probably helped prevent sephiroth from learning it activated after he shivved her) all materia is inherently part of the lifestream anyway, it's like it has a wireless connection to the planet's soul. otherwise you'd have to shove your hand into a vein of the stuff every time you wanted to sling a fireball Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 20:43
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Mordiceius posted:God FF8 is so loving good and deserves a remake far more than FF7 does. FF8 has some of the coolest loving locations. The flying Gardens crashing into each other. Fisherman's Horizon. The Lunatic Pandora. gently caress. Give me FF8 Remake (just keep Nomura away). nomura at his most kingdom hearts-iest could do nothing to make FF8's storyline more hosed up than it already is
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Apr 23, 2020 21:16
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Whitenoise Poster posted:Hot take. If Aerith dies again it will retroactively make every single complaint and bitching about the remake 100% correct and true and justified, factually, emotionally, legally and morally. this, except if she lives
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Apr 23, 2020 21:41
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zedprime posted:If we take some of the original framing this will only work if Cloud strangles Cait Sith the night before. no lungs, no windpipe. reeve thought of everything
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Apr 23, 2020 22:01
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i well and truly have no loving idea how Cait will be incorporated with the remake's graphics, his default model is so hilariously incongruous that it might be a bridge too far with all party members constantly present maybe they'll keep him in a non-combat role and have him occasionally pair up with Red like in Advent Children and even then, the circumstances of Cait joining the party at all are out of step with modern design sensibilities. in RPG's of the time we would think nothing of some new weirdo muscling their way in every [x] number of hours, which is part of the reason why Cait being a double agent came as a shock. FF7R tries to apply more realistic context to a lot of its events, so that scene will probably have a major rewrite pasaluki posted:Speaking of which in the original after Aerith's death what the gently caress is Cait Sith's reaction? that animation is the same for his fortune-telling, so he might be trying to get Mog to spit out something hopeful only to give up and walk off
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Apr 23, 2020 22:07
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Flopsy posted:Just have Cait Sith ride Red XIII problem solved. cait and red quietly going down some corridor "...wanna be friends?" ..."yeah, okay" your choice as to who says what!
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Apr 23, 2020 22:15
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