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habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Aurora! Heck it even has a new C++ version out.

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habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Beamed posted:

I keep wanting to dive into Shadow Empire, but I get super intimidated by the interface when I first boot it up. Is there any getting started guide that can help acclimate?

I don't know enough to be a master, and I don't have the patience to put together a proper guide. But I will be happy to answer any basic questions you have about Shadow Empire. Might be better in the main thread for the game, though.

I will say that as someone who has played for a while, the most intimidating thing about the interface is how much you have to dig to get some information. Like how to see the loyalty of captured cities, or whether or not the militia is capable of growing new units with proper support.



Also in response to the above posts: play Master of Orion 2 as an uncreative race before you complain too much about ship design. Developers who can't exceed that experience should give up.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

orangelex44 posted:

Another game to add to OP:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/489630/Warhammer_40000_Gladius__Relics_of_War/

I haven't actually played it though. To anyone who has: is Gladius any good?

Its... okay. Pretty much a 40k version of the Warlock games. But without the pick one of three perk system. The Orks are great to play as due to their regeneration and scavenging. Everybody else seemed like a slug in comparison.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Relax Or DIE posted:

Shadow Empire looks really cool but is just on the other side of the grog line for me, though close enough I'll probably take the jump at some point

But it reminds me: did anyone else get into Armageddon Empires? I never got a great hold on it but remember having a good time

A cool game that I spent way too much time doing gimmick runs in. Communist Imperial runs where I built decks without a leader. Hive decks with only eggs as units. Invisible almost everything as the mutants. And of course cyborg Machine Legion decks, the worst of both man and machine. Lots of cool ideas in that one, like how you could trade materiel resources for a better chance to go first and get the AP you need to play the really big cards. Yeah combat could get pretty frustrating, even with action cards mitigating the worst results. Pity the whole Adobe Acrobat thing meant that multiplayer was not in the cards. I had hopes for Last Days of Old Earth, but it wasn't a very good knockoff.


Shadow Empire wise designing anything more advanced than an infantryman is basically that one dril tweet:

Me designing a tank: Haha gently caress Yeah!!! Yes!!
Me supplying a tank: Well this loving sucks. What the gently caress.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

sloppy portmanteau posted:

That immediately sold me on it. And suddenly it's five hours later, it has some serious "one more turn" energy.

It's all a bit indiscernible though. Lots of little things, like I can't figure out how to summon anything. The summoning tooltips leads me to believe I need to create a summoning circle in my tower, but there seems to be no way to do that even having summoning 3 & warding 5 masteries. But I'm sure I'll stumble across it eventually.

I'll start with the obvious question of if you have masteries that have summonable units. Summoning, warding, and binding are very handy and are a component of a number of unit researches but don't have any creatures of their own. Doing research into the history of the elemental planes and then focusing research on the new mastery is probably the fastest way to break into a new mastery. I unironically enjoy playing a wizard with nothing but traits, letting random chance control what masteries I end up with.

Summoning circle just removes the small chance of suboptimal summoning, last time I checked. The next thing to check would be where you are recruiting from. Most units can't be summoned from captured towns and fortresses. Finally check your unit filters. If it is only set up to show recruitable units you won't see anything that you summon or bind. I think this finally got fixed, but if you are wondering why you can't apply unit marks it is because you need enchantment mastery and x amount of a resource.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

That's usually how your first few games will go. A big part of the game is learning how dangerous the 1500+ units are and how map features can gently caress you.

e. it sounds like your army was attached a different leader who died in the last fight and then you moved your baron without re-attaching the army to him. Never have all your commanders in the same stack as having no commanders left is a loss condition.

Yeah and in the Baron's case he starts up with a High Lord who insists on leading from the front. So despite their decent stats they are highly vulnerable to getting picked off. Especially if they lead infantry, as their high hp and fast movement will make them target no.1 of the enemy ranged attacks (looking at you javelins).

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

orangelex44 posted:

I'm not sure if I'd say more complex exactly. Maybe more deep? There's some pretty cool stuff going on under the hood, but mostly that's just to randomly generate the flavor. Ultimately the core gameplay isn't all that unfamiliar; it's probably more accessible than Dominions except that there's nobody to ask questions since there's way fewer players. Similar to, say, Dominions there's a bit of decision overload and you'll have to learn to deal with getting curbstomped by a new unit/spell that you had no real way of knowing about before encountering it.

If you're gunning to get one specific unit it'll be nigh-impossible, but if you're OK with naturally expanding your roster of summons and recruits as you research/conquer that's pretty easy. The research system isn't presented super well and has a mediocre UI, but once you understand the relationship between lore ("techs" that might give you stuff, research when you have nothing better to do), spellcraft (kinda-sorta unlocks for new mechanics), and masteries (give you spells and units along with other passive effects).

On the off-chance that someone might actually know the answer, is there anything you can do to already-conquered towns to either destroy them or migrate them to a more favorable culture?

For me Eador and W&W is apples and oranges. Eador is about taking on fights that are so close that you only win because your hero had one last point of stamina and the enemy didn't. Mostly tactical stuff. W&W is sort of in the dwarf fortress mold, a game you play to see what strange things happen. Mostly strategic stuff.

You can find specific units to research by hitting the "show unavailable projects" toggle in the research screen. Then you can filter by a mastery you already have if the full list is too much.

Starting focus wise you want to save your money/mana for sensing mana and then binding or draining mana. Then you want to invest in making more money. Ideally this starts with making a lumbermill, as most buildings have some sort of wood requirement. Food will never make you a fortune, but one farm or a few hunting camps can save you a lot of money in the long run. Hit up any special resources next, or wine if you don't have anything handy. I vaguely recall trade goods being a component for some Warlord Barbarian noble units, but wizards can just sell it all. Enchanting units with marks and faery stuff sometimes uses wine or other esoteric stuff. Armies and soldiers are for protecting your free standing structures. Personally never had much luck making a timely profit from proper cities and towns. Very handy for influence for hiring new workers and heroes.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Stairmaster posted:

what the gently caress do the city stats in wizards and warlords mean exactly and why doesnt it tell me how much gold i need for buildings that im missing the resource to

Unit Brands used to have that problem, but at least here the game lets you know the base price. Some of the city stats are tied to different magic schools. So a wizard with plague magic wants to intentionally increase squalor and just eat the occasional maintenance event. A War wizard wants martial. Chaos and Order wizards have very different unrest preferences etc. Some sort of influence on cities gaining pops/ what type of pops. But mostly a big mystery what the exact numbers mean, even with the reference guide on steam.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

THE BAR posted:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/889080/Deity_Empires/

Has anyone here tried this? Looks like a cheapo Dominions, and therefore sorta interesting.

Its cheapo Master of Magic. Biggest complaint I have is how tough it is to find a spell list for your chosen school.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Omi no Kami posted:

How is Shadow Empire's UI/UX and general gamefeel once you know your way around? I've heard really great things about the depth of gameplay, but the interface looks really nightmarish in both screenshots and gameplay videos.

Turn off planes for your first game. It pains me to say this but you probably want to turn on double logistics points. Getting supplies exactly where you want them can be fiddly, especially in conquered AI territory. The game is basically the story of your logistics chain expanding to meet the growing needs of your logistics chain. Everything else is fairly straightforward in the opinion of someone who has played since before pull points were implemented. Regular reminder that the game is basically a war game, peace is just a way to secure your flank.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

OperaMouse posted:

Apparently Armageddon Empires will come to Steam at some point, but files for Solium Infernum are written in such an archaic program that it will be stuck in its current state forever.
(insert joke on purgatory here)

Armageddon Empires is on there right now for :10bux: But it is tragically singleplayer only. The game is still tagged single player. And there aren't enough people wining about Xenos being OP to make me think there have been any unannounced changes.

Could you narrow down what you want to see in a 4x play by multiplayer game? Otherwise I'll just assume you want Shadow Empires, which basically only has military victories.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

Aesthetic unit designers rule, and unit designers that let you completely change unit functionality are cool. Stats and incremental upgrades aren’t so much. Rock Paper Scissors is especially lame. How did we go so far backwards from MoO 2 letting you have MIRVing missiles and extra small extra fast anti missile missiles as customisation options on the same tech level of missile?

False! Anti missiles are a construction technology of their own. While Mirv missiles require any chemistry technology of two levels higher than the original technology. They aren't even in the same tree.

You get MIRV nukes at the same level as merculite missiles, whether you take those or pollution processor. One of the most hotly contested tech choices for non tolerant/creative races. Do you give up a great building for a missile that delivers a larger lump sum of damage? Or do you split up your damage with MIRV nukes and risk being shut down by enemy shields and their fixed damage reduction?

MOO1 is probably the better overall game. But MOO2 is the one that will never leave my heart. Also here are some MOO2 mods that I still need to try out: https://moo2mod.com/#patches

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

IIRC you can make missiles to intercept other missiles separately from the specialised anti-missile missile armament. Is that not right? I remember having to do all sorts of weird poo poo on an Uncreative run or whatever the race creation choice was that removes choices from the tech tree.

Sorry, no! You can self destruct frigates as an improvised missile defence, if you are stupid productive. Or you could be stupid hard to hit with a +defence, transdimensional, warlord race that sticks to frigates. ECM jammers are in the same timeframe we are talking about, and are probably the best choice at that level. A little bit later and an uncreative race could be saddled with pulsars...

Stars without number has anti-missile missiles for each level of missile technology... but doesn't have the same tech tree format. It also has a really neat point defence network thing, and interceptors that will keep on hunting missiles instead of getting distracted by capitol ships.

Maybe you are thinking of Aurora? You can make basically any sort of missile your fevered imagination comes up with. And try to intercept with "standard" missiles. But it is not even remotely a MOO2 clone.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

chglcu posted:

Mostly because it’s the closet genre to the “Space Emperor Simulator” I really want. It falls short, but nothing else really even comes close.

Stellar Monarch. The AI doesn't even pretend to play by the same rules, but it is a Space Emperor Simulator. Stellar Monarch 2 is looking even better in that regard, with semi-autonomous nobles.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

PerniciousKnid posted:

I feel like turn based is really annoying in multiplayer, unless it's pbem.

MOO2 had the perfect LAN multiplayer setup. Everybody inputs their non combat stuff at the same time. Then the game processes everything once all the turns are in. The only thing you can race to do is conduct diplomacy with other species. Dominions has this going for it too, but there is way more stuff to fiddle with there.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Phigs posted:

Space 4X has a level of detail focus problem. I'm a space emperor, why am I also a governor of every planet and a spaceship engineer? I shouldn't have to deal with planets or ship designs in a space 4X IMO. I should only care what goes into and out of planets because ultimately every time I'm expected to mess with a planet's internals all I'm doing is optimizing its output in a way that could have just been a dropdown of "pop/production/science focus" or similar. Make me worry about the interaction of planets with each other and my empire at large.

At most make me run my home planet and make it super interesting. Like a 4X where I play ANNO on my home planet would be kinda amazing if someone could pull it off. Plus only the first planet or first couple planets really matter and are fun to min/max. When my production and science come from one established planet and a couple colonies it matters what building I build or what tile I put a pop in, but I shouldn't care what tile some random pop works on my 15th planet and only do because if you're not optimizing the system then it's pointless, plus gamer brain.

Stellar Monarch 2 is at least shooting for the space emperor vibe. You don't really command fleets, you just designate what planets you want taken over. Thankfully they included an "all those parasites" option this time. Planets do their own thing, generally specializing in what that type of planet is good at. Eventually customizing a ship is going to be a once per tech level thing, including weird times when two trees get a customization to compensate for levels with none.

They did make a 4x where your home planet initially acts as half a city builder game. You start out probing the fog of war and slowly expanding your initial city. Future planets can just be scanned from orbit and seeded with predesigned cities. It worked well in the little racial quests/tutorials but I didn't like it for a full game. Locking most of the interesting racial techs behind much more of the tech tree, compared to the quests, didn't help. Predestination, got it in some bundle. Long abandoned.

Also Star Ruler II defender here. The diplomacy system is top notch, everybody should steal that and send the goons behind the game a check. And as mentioned the resource system was basically enough to be its own game, eventually. The ship designer obviously appealed to the hard core, but I would have preferred some sort of slot based system, but without limiting engines to being in the rear etc.. Way too many hexes to paint just to get a ship that uses its engines as ablative shielding during battle.

habituallyred fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jul 8, 2022

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
The base game runs into desync problems too if the game goes on too long. Allegedly they were getting close to a mod solution to that last time I checked.

But I don't think anything is going to fix desyncs with the dune mod. Unsurprisingly there are romance of the three kingdoms mods, a tohou mod, an alpha centauri mod, all kinds of stuff. One of the FFH2 modmods had a system where units fought for more than one turn!

habituallyred fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Sep 11, 2022

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Omi no Kami posted:

How is Shadows of Forbidden Gods? The concept appeals to me, and it's gotten really good reviews, but I was a bit underwhelmed by the demo- it felt like a lot of really nitpicky clicking to gradually weight 1d100 rolls for every agent on every verb. Does the gameplay ever smooth out, or is it always a lot of really tedious micromanagement?

What 1d100 rolls? A character slowly adds their relevant stat totals until they hit the target total. Don't go for big places with lots of security without having bribes handy. There can be a lot of dead turns if you want your agents to lay low after their crimes. The best way to defend your agents used to be setting up a plague in a central location and just reinforcing that until heroes learned to hate the relevant agent. Then you lead them on a merry chase around the map while your other agents actually accomplish god relevant tasks.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
A middle ground between hiding all of x announcement forever and being told every time somebody decides to ward nowhersville would be nice. I always follow the Chosen One, just on general policy. Everyone else I just glance at. Except for the Mammon game I had which was just a nonstop series of fights over the holy mountain. Lots of trying to pick off people before they could replenish their bodyguards.

Anybody try any of the mod gods? I know they just got implemented and I am tired of trying to get Ophanim off the ground.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

habituallyred posted:

A middle ground between hiding all of x announcement forever and being told every time somebody decides to ward nowhersville would be nice. I always follow the Chosen One, just on general policy. Everyone else I just glance at. Except for the Mammon game I had which was just a nonstop series of fights over the holy mountain. Lots of trying to pick off people before they could replenish their bodyguards.

Anybody try any of the mod gods? I know they just got implemented and I am tired of trying to get Ophanim off the ground.

Okay tried the god of cups mod alongside the improved cult of the deep mod. The basic idea of the god of cups mod works pretty well. You use infiltration/god powers to convince heroes to travel to your tomb and take a grail. If they don't sell the grail to a ruler they will drink from the grail when they feel danger. An immortal hero will eventually lose their humanity and start rampaging around. Pretty much exactly what everyone wants out of the vampire curse, minus the shadowing. Starting with an immortal pawn and the option to make your more traditional agents immortal is also neat.

I never did get a ruler to drink from the grail and lose their humanity. The real problem is that one of the early powers lets you add danger to any city, and can be intensified by a short agent action. Throw that on a city that the chosen one is trying to rest at and they will get trapped in a loop of trying to heal themselves, and failing. The alliance never got out of its starting country between that and throwing Gawain at the chosen one every time they even thought about building the alliance. At which point the chosen one gets caught in the rest/danger damage/rest loop again.



^^^Star Ruler 2. I really hope somebody will start licensing the non ship builder parts for their 4xes. A great break from all the MOO2 likes. Stellar Monarch 2 managed to release recently and also breaks the MOO2 mold.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

chaosapiant posted:

Wait...is that for real? There's a turn based tactics scenario by Jake Solomon buried inside of Civ IV? How have I never heard of this until now?

Its stylish but not super well balanced. These mod previews were pretty cool and opened the door for lots of crazy mods. Ironically the mod that draws the most from that scenario was that Touhou mod where the modded civilizations basically get one of those customizable units for each "era."

There is a 2/3rds translated romance of the three kingdoms mod with customizable heros that can really screw you over if your civilization leader dies in combat.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
If you could play it multiplayer or on your phone people would already be raving about it. As is the AI was a little too passive about hunting down holy mountains. But that might of been a consequence of all the AI starting in matched pairs. While my Tibet got India/China practically without seeing any clubmen. The edicts that give you bonus range on your faith should probably have a more negative tradeoff... or at least get prioritized more by the AI.

Seconded on the desire for a "tutorial tips gently caress off," button that isn't halfway into the tutorial tips. At least it told me that the game isn't kidding about the end of the research tree being a nonstandard game over. Still don't know what loyalty does.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Played a second game on a non earth map that was much less interesting. Not sure how to break fortified sites on hills and such. Just wave after wave of riflemen failing to do much and having to fall back. And finally got some of those events. In game one I decided not to gently caress around with getting between Islam and Christianity.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

victrix posted:

Each class gets a distinct crafting mechanic, Alchemist can make lots of one shot items usable in battle, everything from basic healing items to potions allowing permanent enslavement of enemy units (items labeled as catalysts have special effects for alchemist crafting, you can ignore that tag on the other two afaik)

Artificer can make one use runes with permanent effects on your units (each tier of ore improves the power of the same rune recipe fyi, e.g. one of the greater rune types gives pathfinding for terrain to a whole stack which rules)

Necromancer straight up crafts units!

Each of the three also has occasional gimmes in rpg events, though that's not really something to plan around

If somebody asked you how it compared to the Fallen Enchantress series, what would you say?

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Fallen Enchantress but better was the vibe I was getting. I'll give it a go.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

GodFish posted:

I picked up Wizards and Warlords which I saw recommended earlier and I've been enjoying it, but I really don't understand how the combat works. I've pretty much been auto-resloving, and if I lose a fight with advantage I reload and do it manually, dumping greater magic missile everywhere and then hitting next turn where I win, but I don't understand the mechanics of why anything happens during the fight.

Are you using the new grid system or the old "battlefield of the mind" setting? I remember a little bit about the old system and its quirks but can't say much about the new one.

What sort of units are you using and what are you up against? Hiring units from your tower without a barracks or archery range is usually a waste of money. Trained troops will take forever to make without a trainer, but they can be well worth it. If you want to put marks on units you also need the Enchanting lore and miscellaneous resources. Wisps and most other summon anywhere things are bad. Make sure to look and see that you aren't trying to fight ghosts with physical weapons. Basically we need more information for non obvious advice.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

GodFish posted:

Even these questions were pretty helpful.

It looks like I've been using the old system, but I might give the grid based one a try to see if it makes things a bit more clear. I've been using an army with Wisps, Wardancers and Stimenn, and another with Wisps and Wreckers, but they were all trained from my non-barracks tower. I've got a pretty decent income and two towns, so I'll work on improving my military infrastructure, hopefully that should help a bit.

The old system is neat, but needed some more time in the oven. Skirmishing with ranged weapons is great, and the main exception to the recruiting from tower rule is militia with javelins. Fun recollection: your archers will fire earlier in the battle if you order your forces to charge vs. telling them to hold. Very handy with double bow golems.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Yeah, I don't know how it is for non-necromancers but any "main" stack for me has two ranged units. A "Necromancer Minion" to guarantee soul drops, notably you start with one and would be starved for souls if you lose it. And an Undead Mage for reducing death resistance and hopefully picking up a heal skill for the undead.

If somebody started next to snow panthers and moles I could see them crashing and burning as the necromancer.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
I don't have a horse in this race. But turn based strategy fans think back to the X-Com: bureau or whatever the name of that shooter was. Weren't you mad that they were making that instead of a good old fashioned xcom remake? People would have been much less mad if there was a simultaneous announcement of the actual remake. Devs today might or might not remember that.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

controversial on both the “lots of folks don’t like it” and “the bee guy gets money from it”, but I recommend Fallen Enchantress and Sorcerer King for that kinda vibe

This has been supplanted by Conquest of Eo in my mind. Does the concept better, and no bees.

Also nthing the recommendation for Eador. Eador Genesis is the most stable and arguably has the best interface. Each one further down the line has more and more fancy stuff at the cost of stability. But you have to really love tactical combat and getting the perfect ranged caracole going.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
I prefer to think of it as a running joke. :)

Q: An employee at your company has told you they are deathly allergic to bees. Do you:

a: Make a note not to invite them to see your bee colony
b: Fill a jar full of stingerless bee drones and bring them to work
c: Solicit bad bee puns to try and make them feel better
d: Park in the handicapped employee parking spot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPc9Z2Dn94U is apparently the video this links back to. This particular one is labeled as a skit, with knowing participants.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

StrixNebulosa posted:

I want to try Eador but I think I'll watch the videos first - I'm midway through my Civ4 game and having a good time. I've also started the tutorial campaign of Age of Wonders 3, too, and this is neat! I don't know if I'm ready to commit to a full game of this - learning the 4X gameplay AND the tactical gameplay is going to be a lot of mental investment - but I know I want to eventually.

Speaking of, I haven't tried it yet. Why do people not like Fallen Enchantress, outside of bees?

Its been long enough people won't have the answer on the tip of their tongue. I've reinstalled Sorcerer Kings to try and rekindle those memories, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. I don't remember it being a trash fire, there were interesting and even good ideas. But not more than a campaigns worth as I recall.

Everybody has different things they want out of a 4x, especially one focused on combat. So I'll post a bit about what I look for.

1.Minimal or at least controllable RNG. 50% miss chances can bite me. There are genres and games that they are appropriate for. But these aren't it. I might settle for ever other attack missing. Even a bag with 6 stones labeled 1-6 and you miss if you draw below a 4 might be interesting. But going an entire turn where nothing happens is bad.
2. Meaningful promotions and decisions in general. Some level ups might not be interesting. But every 5 or 10 there had better be something dramatic. This is even more important for any characters designated as a hero.
3. Eyeballable numbers. There is a lot of value in being able to do the combat math in your head. A good preview function can help substitute for this later in the game. This also includes being able to look at an enemy unit and know basically what you are facing quickly.

How does Eador do on these?
1. Combat attacks rarely vary by much more than one or two points. Stamina, Morale, and health levels have a much greater influence in combat.
2. Any given level might not be exciting. Choosing between one morale and one health isn't great. But when your peasant starts with zip armor and gets the chance for one more it isn't bad. And most units get something dramatic as they level up, even if for peasants that means a promotion into a slightly less bad unit. There are hero skills that are duds, but it is tough to get stuck with taking them. The level 10 opportunity to double down or dual class your hero is a dramatic event, even if there are some obvious losers in the selection. On the meaningful decision front you are limited to making one of most strategic decisions a turn. Hiring guards to defend your province: 1/turn. Building buildings inside your city: 1/turn. Building or upgrading one of the three possible buildings in any given province: 1/turn.
3. There are a distinctly limited number of units in any version of Eador. And you can recognize all of them on sight. If you play long enough you can also get a feel for when they get their dramatic upgrades, but this point is always in conflict with 2. Higher level units strain this, but are usually found alone or in limited numbers. Meaning that you don't have to check too many unit pages.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

wiegieman posted:

The monkey's paw already curled on that one, and gave us Beyond Earth.

I think you mean Pandora: First Contact. Beyond Earth was at least a little bit its own thing...

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

habituallyred posted:

Everybody has different things they want out of a 4x, especially one focused on combat. So I'll post a bit about what I look for.

1.Minimal or at least controllable RNG. 50% miss chances can bite me. There are genres and games that they are appropriate for. But these aren't it. I might settle for ever other attack missing. Even a bag with 6 stones labeled 1-6 and you miss if you draw below a 4 might be interesting. But going an entire turn where nothing happens is bad.
2. Meaningful promotions and decisions in general. Some level ups might not be interesting. But every 5 or 10 there had better be something dramatic. This is even more important for any characters designated as a hero.
3. Eyeballable numbers. There is a lot of value in being able to do the combat math in your head. A good preview function can help substitute for this later in the game. This also includes being able to look at an enemy unit and know basically what you are facing quickly.


Okay Sorcerer Kings. It is an apples to apples comparison with Spellforce : Eo so I am talking about this one instead of Fallen Enchantress. For the record the mod that other folks have mentioned was neat, but the lack of tooltips meant a lot of checking the manual/website. Adjacent units boosting your to hit/damage is a neat idea. Letting units with a high initiative stat take multiple moves per round isn't. The idea that both your and the sorceror king's ascension points get added towards that victory total, with victory coming to the one who controls more when the orb is full is neat.

1. Units have an accuracy stat, which is opposed by a dodge stat. A typical beast accuracy is 80, with the bear making continuous attacks at an increasing penalty until they miss. Various enchantments and abilities can boost this, but ugh.
2. Non hero units get a flat statistical bonus per level, no complaints there. Heroes have a skill tree that each level gives you another node on. A tree might have +5% critical... leading to getting a free move on critical hits. Your leader has their own skill tree, with experience competing with mana/research. It doesn't matter what most of the tree has, one branch unlocks enchanting equipment and improving army size. 4 promotions can get me another hero... or enemies fighting in my territory lose a hit point every round.
3. At first glance units have a simple stats+feat system going on. Then you mouse over the attack stat and find that it is the sum of physical and poison/arcane/whatever damage. So if your target takes half damage from fire and half of your damage is fire type then... The in battle estimate is good, but it makes it tough to eyeball it. Some of the feats are less than enlightening. A wolf can cast howl. No explanation of what howl is or why it is so powerful you have to wait a turn to cast it on the detail screen. I didn't see any enemies with equipment, but you can certainly trick out your own units with 6 accessories+the usual assortment. If it wasn't for its lack of hitpoints this pioneer I got from the Sorcerer king would be better than the non heroes in my starting stack. With a combination of a poison dart, bonus against champions, and a bonus to dodge gained per level.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

Knightsoul posted:

Any trip report about Interstellar Space: Genesis?
I'm tempted to buy the whole bundle with base game + expansions but lookin' at its steam page seems to me a bland MoO clone.

I like the "building capacity=size of planet" thing. And the return of sliders is welcome for planetary spending. The tech cost doubling for each tech after the first you research in each level is a neat compromise. But ultimately I would rather go for Stars in Shadow if I was going for a MOO successor.

Admittedly this was without the last expansion, it sounds neat. If you do get it give us a trip report.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

FrancisFukyomama posted:

Huh, haegemonia got a 2014 android port. Wonder if it still works

Considering that the last time I tried to play it the steam version consistently crashed at the end of the first music track, I doubt it.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Guns slider
Armor slider
Speed slider


90 points to distribute, relevant tech level provides a multiplier to points spend in that category.
If you have to have special systems they cost 10 points or a multiple thereof.

Included with the game is the "Unimaginative ship engineers" game setting that locks everything at 30.
Combat is dominons style, but with less scripting.

MOO and MOO2 made ship designers work. Just because something worked before doesn't mean you have to have it in your game.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015

GlyphGryph posted:

I never played it, but nothing I read about it lead me to believe it had any of those elements, no. The new one doesn't seem like it will have any of those elements either?

There are a few different ways to win, ranging from winning an election to just plain old military take over of the counting house. But the secret objective part is basically the "power behind the throne" perk or whatever it was called. Basically there was an option to become another player's vassal and settle for second place. But if you had that perk you would actually win the game.

I think there was also a perk where you just designated a player, and if they would have won you win instead. But I might be thinking of the Dune board game there.

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Cavemen to Cosmos, the Civ 4 mod, has a surprisingly large amount of "one strategic example lets your civ cultivate that resource through buildings." Its less good than it sounds, probably because its an insanely huge mod and not baked into the game. And yes it does have apples as a strategic resource, along with different types of wood.

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habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015
Sadly I think you have to choose two of good, ship design, tech loss... assuming you ignore MOO1

I'll say Stars in Shadow has good and ship design... mostly because 90% is from MOO2. Different races have racial bonuses that mostly result in different player and enemy fleets. I really like fooling with getting the most out of every planet with diverse populations.

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