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You got it all wrong It was about french cowardice,
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Jul 22, 2020 14:35
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buglord posted:Was there any point during WW2 where the Nazis and UK could have settled for peace if the evacuation of Dunkirk failed? Was there a point in time where Nazi Germany was closest to winning the war in the west? I know counterfactuals are lowbrow, but I heard the statement come up in one of those WW2 forum speeches where old geezers talk about a bit of the war for 2 hours. the failure of the dunkirk evacuation wouldn't have mattered much in the big picture if the nazis had driven over thor's rainbows to the uk after the dunkirk, the evacuated troops wouldn't have been of much use because they had left behind their heavy weapons. but since there was no way for the nazis to invade across the channel, the uk could just mobilize, train and equip more troops. during the war they mobilized over 5m troops from the british isles, so the 300k dunkirk evacuees were only 6% of the amount there was no way for germany to win the nazi "economic miracle" was based on taking huge loans and using the money on building armaments factories, raising overly large armed forces, and lying to the debtors. so if germany hadn't started the war and looted their neighbours they would have been bankrupted in the 40s. and if they had stood their ground in -40 and not declared war to both the us and su in -41, they would still have been bankrupted because of the blockade. and their submarine warfare would eventually have made the us to declare war. and stalin might have also declared war at some point, because he liked doing that sort of stuff. if the nazi empire had stood for a few months longer, they would have been nuked. but that's all in hindsight. after the fall of france the situation looked worse than it was, and there were some british politicians who talked of peace, but they were in the minority, so nothing came out of it
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Jul 22, 2020 14:55
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Collapsing Farts posted:You got it all wrong i heard french tanks have more gears for reverse than forwards! also they eat cheese!
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Jul 22, 2020 15:31
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Strumpie posted:i heard french tanks have more gears for reverse than forwards! no, gasoline
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Jul 22, 2020 15:33
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ChubbyChecker posted:no, gasoline 
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Jul 22, 2020 15:38
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World War 2 never ceases to keep shocking me with even more grim things we were never taught in school. One such case/memorial is a particular statue in Belarus. It pays tribute to all the young Russian/Belarusian children in that region (Krashnyi Berek) kidnapped by the Nazi's , and then bled out completely in order to provide fresh blood transfusions for Nazi soldiers injured on the front lines. These were known as Vampire camps. I believe there is one in Lithuania as well.
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Jul 22, 2020 15:40
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i guess ill tell the story of my italian grandfather who sat around the beaches in italy for months waiting for orders then was sent to invade greece but they made it all of like, 2km inland and after weeks of playing cards the germans showed up and were extremely pissed off at the lack of progress and they sent all the italians home
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Jul 22, 2020 16:30
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GolfHole posted:i guess ill tell the story of my italian grandfather You should watch the film Mediterraneano. (It’s wonderful).
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Jul 22, 2020 17:01
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Mne nravitsya posted:World War 2 never ceases to keep shocking me with even more grim things we were never taught in school. One such case/memorial is a particular statue in Belarus. It pays tribute to all the young Russian/Belarusian children in that region (Krashnyi Berek) kidnapped by the Nazi's , and then bled out completely in order to provide fresh blood transfusions for Nazi soldiers injured on the front lines. These were known as Vampire camps. I believe there is one in Lithuania as well. the war was extremely huge and fighting was everywhere I'd like to know what was the most oddly located battle in the whole thing. I know there were naval battles off of Madagascar to keep shipping lanes open: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Madagascar
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Jul 22, 2020 17:08
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therattle posted:You should watch the film Mediterraneano. (It’s wonderful). grazie
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Jul 22, 2020 17:10
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GolfHole posted:i guess ill tell the story of my italian grandfather the italians were on the side of the allies the whole time. incidentally, if the italians had been on the side of the allies the whole time they would have been working for the axis powers.
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Jul 22, 2020 17:31
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PTSDeedly Do posted:the war was extremely huge and fighting was everywhere https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gabon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Thai_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_weather_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_River_Plate
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Jul 22, 2020 18:03
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One of the most consequential and unforced errors was Germany declaring war on the US. The US had clear justification for war with Japan, but as Germany had no involvement with Pearl Harbor it could have been difficult for the US to declare war on them without appearing to be an aggressor. After Germany declared war the problem was solved and the US could join the fight without having to explain why America was at war with a country that hadn't attacked them. If Germany hadn't done this the Allies would still probably have won but it's likely the war would have gone much longer as it would have been difficult for FDR to get public support for sending millions of men to Europe, probably not until after Japan were defeated.
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Jul 22, 2020 19:25
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By the time of Pearl Harbor the USA was already a de-facto belligerent on the side of the Allies and tbh Germany just made it official
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Jul 22, 2020 20:11
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Tag me as Mexico telling Germany to gently caress off and stop trying to convince us starting a war with the US
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Jul 22, 2020 20:55
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PTSDeedly Do posted:the war was extremely huge and fighting was everywhere There were battles in Alaska. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_campaign
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Jul 22, 2020 21:41
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Were the tank battles in Fury accurate? How do you gently caress up a movie about tanks in late war germany?? Surely they'd be enough real stories of tank crews to fill out 2 1/2 hours?
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Jul 22, 2020 22:17
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mulligan posted:Oh is that salty Csar guy who scoffs at everything like an rear end in a top hat.  toggle posted:Were the tank battles in Fury accurate? How do you gently caress up a movie about tanks in late war germany?? Surely they'd be enough real stories of tank crews to fill out 2 1/2 hours? Eh. I mean compared to most movies yeah. It does use an actual Tiger which is pretty unique. But they were in Easy Eights so they probably would have had an even chance of standing their ground and using the late war AP rounds. A Tiger had good armor but wasn't quite the invincible impenetrable beast it's made out to be. As a movie about a tank crew a the horrific stuff they saw and did, it's pretty good. Forcing that kid to execute that guy seems pretty hokey though I'm sure it probably happened occasionally. Either way I enjoy it a lot. Julius CSAR fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jul 22, 2020 |
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Jul 22, 2020 22:31
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gabon interesting, hadn't read about the franco-thai war before
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Jul 22, 2020 22:43
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At the ranges shown in the movie the pictured long barreled 76mm shermans could blow a hole in the thickest bits of frontal armor on the Tiger I using standard ammunition. No need to charge it or race around to the sides.
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Jul 22, 2020 23:02
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It was odd to learn that as they didn't go to war until 1945, Soviet freighters could sail to California to load up on lend-lease then go across the Pacific without being targeted by the Japanese. Also really sends home how little Japanese leadership cared about their troops when you read a list of maritime disasters during the war. Many many unescorted troop ships sunk with thousands aboard. Often they were prisoner ships, which is another nightmare.
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Jul 22, 2020 23:27
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Hyrax Attack! posted:It was odd to learn that as they didn't go to war until 1945, Soviet freighters could sail to California to load up on lend-lease then go across the Pacific without being targeted by the Japanese. Someone who is in the know should do an effort post on the bonkers infighting between the Japanese army and navy. Makes the dysfunctional Nazi power structure look reasonable at times.
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Jul 23, 2020 00:09
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Blistex posted:Someone who is in the know should do an effort post on the bonkers infighting between the Japanese army and navy. Makes the dysfunctional Nazi power structure look reasonable at times. Oh for sure, the book Shattered Sword got into that a bit. Exact opposite of how combined branches should cooperate, to the point where senior leadership got into fistfights in meetings and the Army having to build their own ships, which was a ridiculous strain on already limited resources.
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Jul 23, 2020 01:13
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Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors was a really good book. People dying on naval ships is horrifying and gross
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Jul 23, 2020 01:34
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toggle posted:Were the tank battles in Fury accurate? How do you gently caress up a movie about tanks in late war germany?? Surely they'd be enough real stories of tank crews to fill out 2 1/2 hours? The clerk being thrown into bow gunner position was something that regularly happened to fill out tank crews in the late war. I like the detail of different soldiers having their own homebrew uniforms. That was pretty common for troops that stayed in the front line long enough. The infantry assault on the hedgerow was pretty realistic. The assaulting tanks and infantry were a little closer together than they normally would have been, but that wouldn't have been a good shot for the movie. The same goes for how they showed urban combat, especially the affinity for white phosphorous shells. The Tiger battle is less realistic. Normally, armored convoys wouldn't have driven bumper-to-bumper like that. They would have likely had something like 50m between tanks while traveling down a road, so they could maneuver and void jams during a fight while giving the enemy a wider range of targets to worry about.The Tiger being alone was realistic. There were very few Tiger Is left in Germany at the time, and running into a lone tank like that wouldn't have been unheard of. Like everyone else said, the Shermans with the 76mm guns wouldn't have had an issue fighting the Tiger at that range. What would likely have happened in real life is that Shermans would have taken pot shots and tried to regroup into better shooting positions. They would not have done that cavalry charge, and would not have done that sick flanking attack. I guess the only other thing is that the Fury would not have survived that side shot near the end. I guess I don't need to say that the last stand wasn't terribly realistic. There were single stories like Raiseinai where a single tank was able to hold off a German regiment for a day, but Fury's scene was obviously over-the-top. Tank hatches could be locked, so the German soldiers wouldn't have been able to open that hatch at the end. Overall, I think they got it down pretty well. It's still bewildering after they put so much effort into the rest of the movie that they succumbed to the 5v1 Sherman/Tiger myth. Like, think about that scene. That small unit of tanks looked like every other crewman was killed. That's something like an 80% casualty rate, which would have been absurd, especially that late in the war. Plan Z fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 25, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 01:34
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Also If they really wanted to cavalry charge for whatever reason they could shoot smoke rounds and blind the tiger while advancing. After all it is much harder to hit what you can't see. Fury was a good movie but the tiger scene and last stand aren't very realistic. A more accurate tiger scene would be if the tiger ambushed and knocked out/missed one of the tanks. The remaining tanks proceed to retreat in order to find a better firing position while suppressing the area with smoke and other munitions. The tiger either retreats and fights another day or gets taken out in a vulnerable position. Cav charges look cool on camera but are suicidal at best when confronting tanks with cannons and machine guns. In reality if the fury's crew became immobilized without support from friendly units they would have bailed out and scuttled the tank with TNT. After that they would walk back to friendly lines and grab another tank. Col. Creighton Abrams, for which the Abrams tank is named after, named his tank Thunderbolt. At the end of the war he was on Thunderbolt VII.
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Jul 23, 2020 02:57
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Wow talk about not being good at your job
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Jul 23, 2020 03:04
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ChubbyChecker posted:the nazi "economic miracle" was based on taking huge loans and using the money on building armaments factories, raising overly large armed forces, and lying to the debtors. so if germany hadn't started the war and looted their neighbours they would have been bankrupted in the 40s. this is such a clear and simple point i'm amazed i never encountered it in school. everything was leveraged on the outcome of the war Strumpie posted:the italians were on the side of the allies the whole time. the italian friend of my enemy is my friend
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Jul 23, 2020 03:13
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The only thing the Italians did halfway right was their naval communications. The allies didn't completely break their codes. The Germans ruined that by eventually forcing them to use their unbreakable system that was already completely broken.
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Jul 23, 2020 03:18
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Yellow Yoshi posted:this is such a clear and simple point i'm amazed i never encountered it in school. everything was leveraged on the outcome of the war Wait so fiscal policy by the Germans was based on “when we win the war against the soviets/uk”? If so that’s wild lol
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Jul 23, 2020 03:21
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lol yup
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Jul 23, 2020 03:48
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buglord posted:Wait so fiscal policy by the Germans was based on “when we win the war against the soviets/uk”? An elegant example of the Nazi's arrogance, terrible strategic planning and hubris.
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Jul 23, 2020 03:53
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:The only thing the Italians did halfway right was their naval communications. The allies didn't completely break their codes. The Germans ruined that by eventually forcing them to use their unbreakable system that was already completely broken. E: no Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jul 23, 2020 |
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Jul 23, 2020 04:34
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Hmm maybe I misread something awhile back or it was just bad info but I remember something like that. Either way Italian incompetence knows no bounds.
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Jul 23, 2020 04:43
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therattle posted:You should watch the film Mediterraneano. (It’s wonderful). im watchin it
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Jul 23, 2020 05:25
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Schweinhund posted:There were battles in Alaska. Lol dang we shipped 150000 guys up there?!
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Jul 23, 2020 05:27
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one time canada and america got in a fight by accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cottage
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Jul 23, 2020 05:29
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Stanley Tucheetos posted:Italian incompetence knows no bounds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9NiEH9-vg&t=110s
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Jul 23, 2020 05:33
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My grandfather was captured in WW2 Here is his secret internment diary  
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Jul 23, 2020 05:34
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GolfHole posted:one time canada and america got in a fight by accident quote:Both U.S. and Canadian forces mistook each other, after a Canadian soldier shot at American lines believing they were Japanese, and a sporadic friendly fire incident occurred, which had left 28 Americans and 4 Canadians dead, with 50 wounded on either side. Canada wins by k/d ratio 
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Jul 23, 2020 05:36
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