Fargo - "She's a wolf in sheep's clothing, that one." (s5 airing now!)

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Fargo - "She's a wolf in sheep's clothing, that one." (s5 airing now!)

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

ruddiger posted:

I know the reason they did was because it makes for better dramatic television but it irked me that she didn’t just shoot the guy while he was knocked out and the cop just stood there out of cover when he was in front of the gas station.

The cop thing I get because he doesn't seem particularly savvy.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2023 17:53

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 16:58

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Yeah it rules that they're portraying the American sheriff as a feudal lord with endless capacity to abuse their power, which is what they essentially are.

https://twitter.com/RealSheriffJoe/status/1727091355636371667?t=k9jd58Jv2rktf8dZOhZ8PQ&s=19

# ¿ Nov 27, 2023 19:01

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

I agree that overall the writing is a little too pleased with itself; very heavy handed with what it's doing. But I like what it's doing so I'll allow it. It just makes this more of a B+ show than an A show for me.

I love what's going on with Munch and I think (so far) it's pleasantly unclear whether he's LITERALLY 500 years old, or whether he's a zealot who identifies with this 500 years old scenario we were shown, or some combination where he's a spiritual reincarnation (or just thinks he's a spiritual reincarnation) of that person continuing on through the centuries.

Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Dec 8, 2023

# ¿ Dec 8, 2023 18:58

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

pointlessone posted:

Decided to take the ol three episode test drive on this, and Hulu dropped me off on S5E1 without me noticing it until I was nearly through.

Should I just continue from here with the insanity of whatever THAT just was, or should I go back to S1E1 and just call this a weird flash forward?

It's up to you, each season is its own standalone story with some loose connections (they're in the same continuity but it's more easter eggs/references since the stories tend to be in separate years/decades and don't directly tie together).

Season 1 and 2 are generally considered the best, I think season 2 is a phenomenal crime epic. Season 3 is hit and miss with some great highs and a remarkable villain performance. Season 4 was pretty mediocre. Too early to tell on Season 5.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2023 19:49

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Martman posted:

Mad Men's previews were truly sublime. Order jumbled into pure nonsense, utterly impossible to understand what was being hinted at

The one I remember most had an ominous panning shot of Don lying facedown on the ground, and in the context of the episode he's just taking a little rest after getting home drunk or something.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2023 02:37

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

thehoodie posted:

It made perfect sense to me. The information we have is not the information Danish had. Given Lorraine's actions and statements that he is aware of, he has no reason to think she would be sympathetic to Dot and want to give Roy the election back in exchange for her. Clearly he has some sense of "justice" and was riding high from the success of the debate. I also really agree with the analysis that Danish/Lorraine represent the old sort of "economic conservative" that are very invested in the legal order they have constructed and believe it will insulate and protect them, and are totally unequipped to deal with the "new" conservative in Roy that cares little for the law or its consequences.

Anyway, excited for tank warfare next episode!

I didn't even consider that he hadn't realized Lorraine was on Team Dot and that he was going behind her back to get Dot out. I didn't really get the significance of him ignoring Lorraine's call. Poor guy

DeadFatDuckFat posted:

I get the feeling that Indira might be on the chopping block now that she's joined team Debt Collector

I feel like Indira is this season's Marge analogue so probably not (unless that's Witt Farr this time which would be a swerve...)

# ¿ Jan 4, 2024 21:53

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

DeadFatDuckFat posted:

I'm glad that Witt Farr repeated his name twice in the episode because I definitely did not remember what it was before that lol

I had to look it up because I didn't want to just call him Winston from New Girl

# ¿ Jan 4, 2024 22:14

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Edge & Christian posted:

I'm not really sure what it's "beating the viewer over the head" about or honestly how it is doing said beating. I assume "it" here is that "there exists a reactionary/insurrectionist movement today in the United States that is intertwined with the notion of Law & Order and A Bygone Better America and militant separatists and Evangelical movements and Donald Trump" and I can't tell if the issue is "telling a story about that" or "telling a story about that while explicitly mentioning Donald Trump or Ammon Bundy or Lavoy Finicum" or, and I do sympathize with this even if I don't think it's productive and there are probably lots of other shows to watch, "we are living through this and it's awful and I want entertainment that does not remind me of this".

Yeah lol, the entire season is explicitly political and depicting a situation that exists because of modern America's political state. The "nightmare sheriff who is a feudal lord" is not a naturally occuring phenomenon, it's something this hosed up country enables. Watching all this and then being annoyed that they "made it political" with a throwaway Trump joke is missing the forest for the trees.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2024 16:00

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

ChesterJT posted:

OK Varga, then where are they? The closest thing we've had is Joe Arpaio and he became sheriff when Clinton was president.

Yes that American sheriff who came up under an American presidency is an example of how hosed up America is. Yea it's exaggerated in the show but this kind of power abusing constitutional conservative isn't something the show made up and it's not unique to the Trump era.

https://twitter.com/RealSheriffJoe/status/1727091355636371667?t=k9jd58Jv2rktf8dZOhZ8PQ&s=19

Parakeet vs. Phone posted:

It's a whole bummer of a thing, although I assume a lot of the signers aren't really ride or die on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace_Officers_Association

And also corrupt sheriff who's just straight up running drugs and occasionally murdering random people/whistleblower deputies is a thing that shows up more than you'd think in true crime stuff.

Like I said earlier, I don't really think they've gone too hard on the Trump stuff. Roy's part of a larger, long running thing and I think even in the show Roy was a sheriff pre-Trump given how established he is. If anything the point is that it's more of an American problem of people being insistent on their own version of reality and being "independent" and romanticizing fixing their own problems even when it's ridiculous. Hoping they aren't going to drop those themes for a simple ending, but we'll see.

Yeah exactly. This show isn't exactly subtle about its themes, it's wild to watch this season and think it's not making any point about America, law enforcement, societal power structures, radical right wing violence, etc, and then when they reference Trump say "hey now, why bring politics into this?"

Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 13, 2024

# ¿ Jan 13, 2024 19:34

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

From what I remember S1 seems like it might be doing a Breaking Bad rip-off "this suburban guy is DONE getting poo poo on!" at first that feels kind of lame before you realize the show is absolutely not going to be sympathetic to Martin Freeman.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2024 20:35

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Wafflecopper posted:

BB wasn't sympathetic to Walter White either

Right, I meant to say that it felt like it was trying to cash on on the popularity among people who didn't get it and thought it was just badass

# ¿ Jan 15, 2024 23:04

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

DaveWoo posted:

I did have a few critiques about the final episode:

* Lorraine is let off the hook way too easily. It feels like the show goes from critiquing her "girlboss" image to unironically endorsing it.

* Indira barely shows up in the final episode, and it feels like her character arc kind of fizzles out after she quits being a cop to work for Lorraine.

* Officer Farr dies in a way that just feels pointless.

And a minor personal quibble - "a year later" would have been 2020, and I'm surprised nobody so much as mentioned COVID.

Overall, I still liked the season as a whole, and I'd probably rank it close behind Seasons 1 & 2, but I'm not sure it completely stuck the landing for me.

All three of those really bothered me and almost sunk the finale for me. The last scene made up for it and saved the whole season in my view. Someone earlier in this thread said Hawley can feel like someone who's playing the notes but doesn't quite understand music (or something like that) and that felt really apparent this season. There are story beats that happen and feel a bit off or hollow so they just don't land right.

Witt Farr's death feels super unearned by the show, it's a pointless death in terms of plot and we don't spend enough time on his interiority (or with him at all for that matter) for his death to really hit home thematically. It feels like going through the motions of "it's sad when a nice character dies" but doesn't feel satisfying in a positive or negative way.

Indira's end fizzling out is a bummer as well, it would have been nice to spend any time with her to see i.e. was this a hollow victory, how does she feel about selling herself out of her debt, maybe contrast this with Ole Munch or something. Instead she's just kinda there. Based on their respective screen times I might have combined Indira and Witt into one character, that would have felt more cohesive (and would've given some thematic heft to the death)

And Lorraine should have gotten some kind of comeuppance. It's fine for bad guys to win, but the way the show unironically celebrates the evil debtmonger girlboss as she jokes about ordering prison rape just hits wrong, before she triumphantly exits the stage and then we moralize about kindness.

Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 18, 2024

# ¿ Jan 18, 2024 05:53

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

CatstropheWaitress posted:

This has been mentioned by a few people, and idk. It feels like you're confusing the emotion of being disappointment that the character was killed with it being unearned, pointless, etc. Like when you're saying it doesn't feel satisfying, that's kind of why it worked for me. Their death isn't satisfying, and that's how it goes sometimes.

(S3 spoiler) Swango's death hit a similar note, iirc.

It's less that I'm confused by my emotions and more that I watched it and thought it was a hollow beat that didn't make me feel anything except annoyance at the writers. Witt getting got by Roy could work in a variety of circumstances, and the way it played out here just didn't work for me. When I say it isn't satisfying, I don't mean "It didn't make me happy", I mean "I don't think the show executed this well".

"Witt saves Dot, then separately goes after Roy, who is already defeated and bleeding out, and gets killed to stop him from going down a tunnel where he immediately gets arrested" just feels narratively slapped together. The S3 character's death you mentioned feels like an unfortunate but thematically appropriate conclusion to their journey of vengeance, whereas this feels like a tacked on coda because they wanted someone to die.

It wouldn't bother me as much if it weren't for the other issues in the finale, which makes me feel less like I'm missing something and more like they just really whiffed hard on wrapping up several arcs and were saved by the tremendous ending scene.

Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jan 18, 2024

# ¿ Jan 18, 2024 14:00

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

A major problem with Season 4 is that Rabbi Milligan is such an interesting character and should have been one of the leads instead of a side character, with a lot more time spent on his interiority.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2024 05:37

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Varga is basically Satan appearing as the form of an avatar of capitalism, he rules.

Jerusalem posted:

Re: Witt and the final episode of Season 5:

I get the feeling that Witt is supposed to represent the idea that the law is there to do the "right" thing, which marks him in contrast to many of the other characters, in particular Roy. He seemed from the (sadly) little we got to see him that he WANTS to be a good police officer but struggles with fear and self-doubt. Policing doesn't come naturally to him, but he is a true believer in the idea of it: the police are there to help people, to stop criminals, but to do it all the "right" way, by the book, following laws which he clearly believes are in place for the good of all and not just a few. He also clearly thinks that other people should and would respect the law in the same way, that some things just "are". All through the season you can see him struggling with the reality he keeps butting heads with, like Gator stealing evidence directly in front of him, his fear for his own safety conflicting with his desire to be a good officer, how clearly uncomfortable but determined he is when he requests his boss let him be part of the team looking for Dot, holding down the fear when he's part of that unit proceeding into the Tillman property etc.

Somebody mentioned it earlier, but when he turns and finds Roy behind him with the knife, he could have shot him there and it would have been absolutely 100% classified as a justified shooting... but that's not the kind of cop/person that Witt is or wants to be. He catches Tillman dead to rights, and in his head now that he has caught him and has a gun on him, this is the end of it, he can arrest him and put him in cuffs and take him away. As Tillman keeps approaching with the knife, you can tell he knows that he has to shoot but he can't bear to do it for a multitude of reasons, not least of all because at the heart of it he doesn't want to kill somebody when he thinks talking/deescalation is still an option.

Witt represents the ideal of the police officer, even if he struggles to be what he so clearly wants to be. He is unfortunately in a world of rampant corruption, and even the "good" cops are shown to be largely indifferent to what is right or wrong as opposed to what is expedient in the moment, not wanting to put their necks out and risk angering somebody in power but also more than happy to be a tool for those powers the moment they're called on to do so. Tillman is the antithesis of what Witt wants to be: utterly corrupt, zero compunctions about murder, entirely about using authority and power purely for his own gain and personal desires rather than any benefit to society (though Roy would argue that what is good for him is in alignment with what is good for society).

It still makes for a frustrating watch given we spend so little time with him and can only pull interpretations from his limited screen-time and character development, but I did feel like there was an interesting story (kinda) being told there with him.

Yeah I think you're absolutely right, and your last point (we spend so little time with him and get such limited character development) is what I mean when I say it feels unearned. I'm fine with it as a bullet point but what we actually got was not there for me. Same for Indira although for her it's more that I wish she had a concluding scene at all.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2024 20:10

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

th3t00t posted:

I thought Witt Farr's death was an allegory. He represents the American political establishment. While he wields the power to stop fascism, he fails to act and instead binds himself with decorum and stands there impotently until fascism stabs him in the heart.

I don't think you're wrong, but it's undercut when Tillman gets arrested by literally the FBI like thirty seconds later.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2024 17:14

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

DaveKap posted:

It's insane and will never happen but for some reason I could see all the Fargo seasons somehow creating an ultimate final season like the movie Glass or the season finale of Marvel's What If? series where Varga meets Lorraine and is all "they're coming for you, with pitchforks" and Wrench and Munch appear ready to fight but wait, who's that... an aged Mike Milligan out of nowhere? And he's with the alien who was piloting the UFO?!?!?

Aged Mike Milligan should be in Accounting at Lorraine's company

# ¿ Jan 25, 2024 13:56

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

C2C - 2.0 posted:

There’s a handful of accents in New Orleans; none of them resemble how Lorraine spoke.

Dumb question:

I don’t remember if Munch was wearing it during the sin-eating ritual scene, but is it ever hinted at why he wears the long skirt? Or is it some sort of kilt?

Aoi posted:

I assumed it was meant to be a Welsh Tartan, which is a form of kilt, yes. Though, his being a (formerly) poverty stricken commoner with no one to care for him, he didn't have a family pattern, so it was in solid colors.

My only complaint about the ending scene was that they could have done another cute moment where the daughter (who is some level of gender nonconforming) thinks it's neat that Munch is a boy wearing a skirt, adding to Munch's comic bewilderment.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2024 14:15

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 16:58

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

MightyJoe36 posted:

I actually don't see things ending that badly for Roy. He's really good at manipulating weak individuals and prison is full of them. Also, a guy like him probably already has ins with the Aryan Brotherhood and their ilk which more or less runs the place.

Then again, he is an ex-cop and they generally don't do well in prison.

Yeah he's a cop and a child rapist (although that part may not be well publicized), historically not gonna do well in prison even before the entire cell block is paid off to brutalize him

# ¿ Jan 26, 2024 15:13

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Fargo - "She's a wolf in sheep's clothing, that one." (s5 airing now!)