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Yeah Nah? This poll is closed. |
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122 | 53.51% |
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64 | 28.07% |
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18 | 7.89% |
| No Yes |
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9 | 3.95% |
| Yes No |
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15 | 6.58% |
| Total: | 228 votes | ||
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hambeet posted:I'd be interested to read up on this if you had a link? Not the best source on this but the best studies are ones from the UK where both AZ and Pfizer are in circulation https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00289-9/fulltext The main takeaway is that AZ's protection grows over time and as yet there is no evidence of protection dropoff. Tomberforce posted:Yeah my brother is a doctor in the UK and he advised me against the AZ vaccine just at the moment in a controlled covid environment like Australia at the moment - he'd just had a 30 year old female patient die from clotting. I was eligible for the mrna in the end and have been fully vaccinated but I was quite comfortably booked in for getting the AZ which most of my family over there had been given without incident. You have more of a chance of being struck by lightning. Lets be honest here, there's a risk to almost every medical procedure and AZ's is actually very, very low as far as that goes. Whatever the status of Covid in Australia, the fact is that sitting on your thumbs thinking that a outbreak isn't going to affect you is a fool's wish and the fact that the office I work in was shut before the lockdown due to a tier one exposure is exactly why the advice to just wait for Pfizer is exactly like playing chicken. It's a pandemic with a disease that is far worse chance of permanently loving you up that can and will appear at any time.
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Jun 29, 2021 13:03
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MythLisp posted:A horrifying story May I ask what your family member's age and weight was? I am trying to Do The Right Thing For My Community and have booked in for an AZ vaccine on Friday (I am 32), and I know scientifically the risk of complications is statistically tiny, and I have plenty of friends and coworkers who got AZ back in March because they're essential workers, but I won't pretend anecdotes like this don't scare me.
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Jun 29, 2021 14:57
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Humans are just really bad at probability and statistics, we're programmed to hear a bad thing happened and go oh no and avoid the thing even if the actual risk is extremely low - it's hard to conceptualise what extremely low even means. I mean I know all of that and here I still am sitting being grateful I could book in a pfizer shot in a couple of weeks so I don't have to wrestle with my own overinflated sense of danger about AZ.
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Jun 29, 2021 15:32
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Periphery posted:And now they have Car Park Rorts to go along with it: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-28/auditor-general-report-major-issues-commuter-car-parking/100250426 https://twitter.com/MrKRudd/status/1409693268862935040
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Jun 29, 2021 16:08
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I know this is a long bow, but what does this mean for krudds re-election chances?
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Jun 29, 2021 16:21
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Not the best source on this but the best studies are ones from the UK where both AZ and Pfizer are in circulation Not intending this as some gotcha at all, apologies if it comes off that way. The AMA has stated they think under 60s should still wait for Pfizer. ATAGI advice is still that Pfizer is the preferred vaccine for under 60s. Even in Britain where your chances of COVID are far higher, the recommendation is for Pfizer for under 40s (although access to Pfizer is presumably easier there than here, which would factor into this decision). There doesn't appear to have been any robust assessment of risk accompanying the announcement that anyone can get AZ now, the PM just came out and said it (in my view solely to try and deflect blame from the botched vaccine rollout). To me (in my 30s), that makes a pretty compelling case to wait until Pfizer becomes available or the actual medical advice changes. e: if the medical advice changed tomorrow and said that due to limitations on supply (and need to vaccinate priority workforces with Pfizer due to shorter follow-up vaccination) and increased spread of COVID in Australia they now recommend AZ for everyone, then I'd probably still feel a little hesitant but ultimately would go get stabbed with the plague. Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 00:46
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few new cases in SA. everyone's bracing for the lockdown announcement this morning
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Jun 30, 2021 02:25
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Solemn Sloth posted:Not intending this as some gotcha at all, apologies if it comes off that way. This is ultimately my decision as well after sizing it up. I could go and get AZ now but until people whose job it is to advise the public about getting medical procedures says I should, I'm not going to.
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Jun 30, 2021 02:31
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Organza Quiz posted:Humans are just really bad at probability and statistics, we're programmed to hear a bad thing happened and go oh no and avoid the thing even if the actual risk is extremely low - it's hard to conceptualise what extremely low even means. what amuses me is people here stats about blood clots and get worried thinking 'oh no that could be me though' and then people get the sniffles, don't go and get a covid test and end up spreading it around because 'oh no it can't be me though'
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Jun 30, 2021 03:57
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Solemn Sloth posted:Not intending this as some gotcha at all, apologies if it comes off that way. the medical advice may change because it won't matter to your GP if you try sue them now. that's reassuring, certainly?
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Jun 30, 2021 04:00
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but yeah i'm the same. I see the logic behind what's being said w/r/t AZ, but the advice out there is what gives pause.
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Jun 30, 2021 04:01
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I don't give a gently caress whether I get Pfizer or AZ but apparently the forecast is that we'll have enough shipments for everybody under 40 to get fully vaxxed by the end of October... which means I'd actually be fully vaxxed sooner than if I get AZ in a couple days. But who knows whether that "forecast" will actually play out.
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Jun 30, 2021 04:36
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I just found out that colonoscopies have like a 0.3-0.8% chance of bowel perforation with similar mortality rate to AZ clots. So that's like 100 times more likely to happen than getting a clot from AZ. If we decide to go all in on AZ they really need a public campaign comparing the risk to other things seen as routine and unconcerning, that's probably the only way to convince our dumb ape brains.
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Jun 30, 2021 04:46
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What's the point of dice rolling a blood clot when the state government shits its sacks and closes everything down before there's even a hundred cases in a pop of millions? Just get Pfizer in October instead of AZ dose two in October.freebooter posted:
I believe Pfizer have been delivering what's been ordered on time, the lag in % is old people not taking their poisonous clot juice. JBP fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 05:03
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JBP posted:What's the point of dice rolling a blood clot when the state government shits its sacks and closes everything down before there's even a hundred cases in a pop of millions? Just get Pfizer in October instead of AZ dose two in October. I think you have the UK as a pretty good example of what happens if you don't poo poo your daks.
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Jun 30, 2021 05:07
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hooman posted:I think you have the UK as a pretty good example of what happens if you don't poo poo your daks. I am heavily in favour of making GBS threads them don't get me wrong.
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Jun 30, 2021 05:15
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https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...36ca0f1a69aa34a I have entered a deep tilt
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Jun 30, 2021 05:17
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JBP posted:What's the point of dice rolling a blood clot when the state government shits its sacks and closes everything down before there's even a hundred cases in a pop of millions? Just get Pfizer in October instead of AZ dose two in October. Because it will stop the state governments from closing everything down?
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Jun 30, 2021 05:20
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From what I understand, the risk of getting a blood clot and dying from Astrazeneca, for my age group, is higher than the risk of dying from Covid. Why would I be rushing out to get Astrazeneca again? If it was to protect my fellow citizens, the older people who are most at risk have been able to access a vaccine for a number of months now. How is it my fault if they haven't yet been vaccinated. Of course, this would all change if Covid was rampant and we didnt regularly shutdown because of a few cases of community transmission.
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Jun 30, 2021 05:21
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JBP posted:I am heavily in favour of making GBS threads them don't get me wrong. You, me, sharks, engadine maccas.
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Jun 30, 2021 05:34
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go_banana posted:From what I understand, the risk of getting a blood clot and dying from Astrazeneca, for my age group, is higher than the risk of dying from Covid. You are definitely getting something wrong here. If you are comparing the vaccine risk per capita in your age group to the number of people in Australia that have died (per capita) from your age group, that's wrong. You need to compare apples to apples, you getting the vaccine to your chance of dying if you were infected with coronavirus. The vaccine is clearly much, much safer than getting covid.
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Jun 30, 2021 05:40
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Chadzok posted:You are definitely getting something wrong here. If you are comparing the vaccine risk per capita in your age group to the number of people in Australia that have died (per capita) from your age group, that's wrong. You need to compare apples to apples, you getting the vaccine to your chance of dying if you were infected with coronavirus. Based on this my chance of dying if I get covid is 0 and my chance of getting a blood clot is higher than that https://twitter.com/MelissaLDavey/status/1410068100045705219?s=20
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Jun 30, 2021 05:58
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Organza Quiz posted:I just found out that colonoscopies have like a 0.3-0.8% chance of bowel perforation with similar mortality rate to AZ clots. So that's like 100 times more likely to happen than getting a clot from AZ. It really does have to be something that is routine and relatable for as many people as possible. Arguments have been made along the lines of 'you're more likely to get struck by lightning' in regards to 'things that have a very small chance of happening', but people don't often think about getting struck by lightning specifically, so why would they care about the thing it is being compared to? As far as I've witnessed, people are generally more afraid of things that they've seen happen to others, or that they know have happened to people they care about. Similarly, if something like a vax blood clot happens to someone they don't like then it's almost a good thing, as though that person deserved to have one and their chance of fatal outcomes was higher than usual. This might make someone more willing to try a procedure, because if it's bad for people they hate, it must be good for people they like. Does that make sense? It's like sports team or video game logic. I believe this is part of why Scomo stepped up to receive a vaccine early; I specifically remember people saying "If the vaccine is so good, all the members of parliament should take it as well."
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Jun 30, 2021 06:05
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Centusin posted:Based on this my chance of dying if I get covid is 0 and my chance of getting a blood clot is higher than that So that certainly makes sense if you're looking at the whole population and making assumptions like a 'low transmission scenario', and needing information which helps you to make decisions about vaccinating the population. I would argue that it is very misleading to translate that to an individual level and say "my risk of dying from the vaccine is higher than my risk of dying from covid". If those were the parameters you chose to use to base that decision on, it would be a constantly changing evaluation based on Australia's current infections, your location, proximity to outbreaks, precautions you were taking, whatever. It's just not a useful comparison, it's too misleading and read even slightly out of context is completely false. Edit: Another way of saying this, is that the risk vs benefit is different on a population scale than to the risk vs benefit to an individual. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 06:10
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Chadzok posted:You are definitely getting something wrong here. If you are comparing the vaccine risk per capita in your age group to the number of people in Australia that have died (per capita) from your age group, that's wrong. You need to compare apples to apples, you getting the vaccine to your chance of dying if you were infected with coronavirus. I'm not planning to make an appointment to get COVID either Chadzok posted:You are definitely getting something wrong here. If you are comparing the vaccine risk per capita in your age group to the number of people in Australia that have died (per capita) from your age group, that's wrong. You need to compare apples to apples, you getting the vaccine to your chance of dying if you were infected with coronavirus. This is completely disingenuous. Not factoring in the chance of actually getting/not getting COVID, and instead applying an assumption that you will get COVID skews the figures to a ridiculous degree in a country that has so far had ~30k cases in a population of ~25 million Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 06:11
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Solemn Sloth posted:I'm not planning to make an appointment to get COVID either And this is the difference between an active risk (taking an action that may result in harm) to passive risk (waiting around to see if something harmful happens). Humans are very bad at these sorts of calculations. I'm getting Pfizer and I'm not telling anyone to get AZ, I'm just pointing out inaccuracies in this important internet conversation.
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Jun 30, 2021 06:16
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Solemn Sloth posted:This is completely disingenuous. Not factoring in the chance of actually getting/not getting COVID, and instead applying an assumption that you will get COVID skews the figures to a ridiculous degree in a country that has so far had ~30k cases in a population of ~25 million Yes, but this could easily change (and in fact the figures are currently changing daily).
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Jun 30, 2021 06:17
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Chadzok posted:Yes, but this could easily change (and in fact the figures are currently changing daily). Yes, which is why I'm relying on the expert medical advice that has factored that in and recommended I wait for Pfizer, when the situation changes so will the advice, and then so will my behaviour Chadzok posted:And this is the difference between an active risk (taking an action that may result in harm) to passive risk (waiting around to see if something harmful happens). Humans are very bad at these sorts of calculations. The issue I'm calling out in your argument isn't about active vs passive risk, it's about assessing the risks of not getting the vaccine based on the assumption of getting covid which throws the maths out entirely. It would be like if I assessed the risks of taking the vaccine based solely on the mortality rate if I do get a blood clot, rather than factoring in the chance of getting a clot. Or if I was to weigh up the risks of going outside for exercise against the chance of dying if I'm hit by lightning (~10%) Solemn Sloth fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 06:21
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go_banana posted:From what I understand, the risk of getting a blood clot and dying from Astrazeneca, for my age group, is higher than the risk of dying from Covid. OK, let me do this one more time (I'm responding mainly to the "from what I understand"). The statement should be rephrased: "the risk of getting a blood clot and dying from Astrazeneca, for my age group, is higher than the current chance of catching COVID and dying, in Australia, based on the low transmission scenario in that PDF file I saw". Chadzok fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 06:23
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Not the best source on this but the best studies are ones from the UK where both AZ and Pfizer are in circulation Hate to be that guy, but that's not true. If we assume the average person doesn't habitually carry a gigantic antennae in a field during every lightning storm, the average persons odds of getting struck by lightning here in Australia is about 1 in 253,600. Note: This back of the envelope calculation is entirely based on the very hastily googled statistic of only ~100 people get struck by lightning in Australia per year, and Australia having a population of about 25,360,000. Meanwhile, if you're <30 and get the AZ jab, the odds of you getting a serious complication is a little over 1 in 100,000. So if you're under 30 and get the AZ jab you're two and a half times more likely to get some complication as a result in comparison to being struck by lightning. (Fun fact, getting the AZ jab has almost the same risk of death as skydiving, but at least with blood clots people know what to look out for and can go to a hospital for treatment. Unlike skydiving, where I assume there's a moment you know you're hosed and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it). All of this being said, if people want to make that calculation for themselves, maybe let them? I'm sure there's plenty of people whose personal circumstances mean they're more likely to be hosed over by coronavirus and maybe they're willing to roll the dice in comparison to carrying on unvaccinated and hoping they don't get it. I'd still suggest the boomers toughen up and get their AZ shot already to free up supply for the rest of us, though. After all, they're the ones who are going to be turbofucked by the 'rona. Side note: There is an intense irony to me saying this because I was hesitant about the AZ, and have lucked out and gotten my first Pfizer because I live in WA and somehow managed to get my act together enough to pre-register for the vaccine. My AZ hesitancy was largely because when it came out that people were dying of complications of it, all the ones I saw on the news were people in my exact gender/age demographic. However, I also acknowledged then, and acknowledge now that my personal risk profile (and the risk profile of literally everyone in Australia) is subject to change - if my options were 'get a vaccine that has an incredibly low chance of causing a clot' or 'lockdown for an indeterminate period of time', odds are I'd take the shot. We're seeing that play out now, as well as during previous outbreaks - when it got out in Victoria, the previously-empty mass vaccination centre was overrun, and we're seeing the same now in a bunch of different states to the point that at least one goon's partner cannot get vaccinated despite starting a new job in healthcare and technically being a part of the 1b category because the government has run out of supply for first shots and wants to focus on getting already vaccinated people their second until they can secure more supply.
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Jun 30, 2021 06:53
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TheMostFrench posted:It really does have to be something that is routine and relatable for as many people as possible. Arguments have been made along the lines of 'you're more likely to get struck by lightning' in regards to 'things that have a very small chance of happening', but people don't often think about getting struck by lightning specifically, so why would they care about the thing it is being compared to? As far as I've witnessed, people are generally more afraid of things that they've seen happen to others, or that they know have happened to people they care about. I am pretty sure Scomo was eligible for the AZ but still got the Pfizer, so he's not exactly leading by example there.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:09
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Organza Quiz posted:I just found out that colonoscopies have like a 0.3-0.8% chance of bowel perforation with similar mortality rate to AZ clots. So that's like 100 times more likely to happen than getting a clot from AZ. I feel like comparing it to this specifically is more likely to make people more hesitant to get probed than feel better about getting vaxxed. They also don't recommend people under 50 get a colonoscopy unless they are already making GBS threads blood.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:10
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My income hasn't been affected by lockdowns so my bargaining power has actually increased compared to the general population of Melbourne, so I'm on team Novax.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:19
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im getting Sputnik
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Jun 30, 2021 07:23
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I'm getting a hair cut.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:33
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Chadzok posted:OK, let me do this one more time (I'm responding mainly to the "from what I understand"). Mate, of course you have to actually catch covid to die from covid. This is such a silly argument. Huge  energy
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Jun 30, 2021 07:34
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Eediot Jedi posted:I'm getting a hair cut. 
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Jun 30, 2021 07:50
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realbez posted:Mate, of course you have to actually catch covid to die from covid. This is such a silly argument. Huge Correct with the energy, and in that spirit, in regards to your first sentence, if the chance of catching Covid was any different (as it definitely is with the Delta strain) the statistics and calculation will change, even if the death rate remains the same, so in conclusion I have no idea what you're saying besides something dumb.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:51
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froglet posted:I am pretty sure Scomo was eligible for the AZ but still got the Pfizer, so he's not exactly leading by example there. This is silly. Pfizer was approved by the regulator before AZ was, and the PM was rightly one of the first in line - like the opposition leader, health officers etc - to demonstrate to the population that the vaccine was safe to take at a time when there was a huge amount of wariness among a lot of people who would not otherwise be anti-vaxx simply because the vaccine was developed so quickly.
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Jun 30, 2021 08:05
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Alice Springs has entered a 72-hour lockdown
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Jun 30, 2021 08:24
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