McElory + BDG Love Zone

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Rapidly Going Deaf > McElory + BDG Love Zone

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

DesertIslandHermit posted:

I feel like Travis wanted to build something big but didn't know how to do it. He introduced so many characters and things early into Graduation which felt backwards compared to what Griffin did for Balance which was just introducing a new plot-significant character every couple of episodes with the exception of the start of a new story arc when he'd briefly introduce a small cast. Travis can pace and map out a short adventure just fine but creating a long-term campaign compared to creating a 4-part campaign is oil and water. The worst Travis could do now is rush the story to try to finish it because he'd probably end up introducing even more characters and things too quickly. If that isn't already happening now.

Agreed on pretty much all counts here. Personally I don't think he's rushing it too badly currently though--as one of the few people on this forum who actually keeps up with TAZ:G instead of regurgitating poo poo I've read about it on other websites, apparently?--and he's definitely not adding tons of (unmemorable) NPCs at this point, thank god he got the memo on that. I'm looking forward to finding out what happens with the main plot, and still enjoying listening to the show plenty.

blossommirage posted:

DMing is scary as hell, I can't say I blame him.

yeah lol as a fellow GAD-haver, despite having tons of experience with TTRPGs and very much enjoying putting a lot of work into my PCs, I have never DMed because my anxietybrain can't handle keeping track of that many things at once and worrying about loving up and producing something "good" and making sure everyone is having a good time, etc., let alone keeping up with audience expectations. Making a great PC isn't the same skillset as making great NPCs or DMing well (tbh the most boring PCs in TAZ have tended to be Griffin's--I def enjoy some of them but like Remy wasn't interesting at all to me). That said he's done a good job DMing silly one-shot things and it'd be cool if he was up to giving it a shot.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2021 16:41

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 01:33

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Highly recommend Tiny Heist, the first ep's a little slow and Brennan's little kid voice is annoying, but it picks up fast and Justin's character is one of my favorites ever.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2021 17:12

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

lol it took me a while to notice the spelling of the thread title... oopsies

Ainsley McTree posted:

How many of these D20 campaigns you guys are recommending can be found (legally) without a dropout subscription? And where do I find them

e: vvv thank you!

Also just so you know, once you get through those and if you enjoyed them, there is a free trial for Dropout (only 3 days though). If you end up wanting to go with it, it costs $5 a month. I feel like it's easily worth that but obv not the case for everyone.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2021 22:06

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

The World Inferno posted:

Vice actually wrote about Adventure Zone's woes. https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp...erboard_twitter

Pretty good article, she summarized the criticism fairly while taking the creators' perspective into account. I do kind of feel like the last paragraph is kind of giving a pass to both lovely sides of the community (toxically positive "no bummers" people and the people desperately trying to cancel the McElroys), though, by saying "welp that's just part of public life".

Elvis_Maximus posted:

I'll certainly give it a try. I really just miss the early balance days of mostly goofs and some puzzle solving with checks and fights. They don't need to do anything fancy, just get back to their roots a bit

They have been able to access this energy when doing one shots. IMO they really need to let go of the "we're going to create a grand work of fiction" mindset and go back to focusing on having a game they can actually relax and have fun in. That is definitely easier said than done, though, and plenty of that pressure comes from the fandom.

e: also what is the difference between "performative wokeness" and "virtue signaling", because they seem to mean the same thing to me but I've seen the same people chastise others for using the latter while they use the former to criticize very similar behavior?

Stroop There It Is fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Mar 30, 2021

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 16:30

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Sudden Loud Noise posted:

Eh, there is the case of Justin DM'ing Rachel Rosing asking her to not call them out when they're lovely:

https://twitter.com/Rachtacular/status/1346130073691144192

(To your point, the article should have provided at least one example.)

Is this about the CBD snake oil guy?

Colonel Whitey posted:

That article was pretty frustrating to read, it really made it seem like "no bummers" is some sort of policy the McElroys have imposed that means "do not bring up uncomfortable issues with us, ever" rather than a policy that applies to goofballs getting up at live shows and asking questions. It should have been made more clear that this is a problem of the fandom and not something the brothers have imposed on anyone, or done a better job making the argument that the McElroys have fostered that within the fandom, if that was the point. There are no examples brought up in the article where someone tried to bring up an issue and was shut down, and it is really stretching to try to tie Travis' recent social media problems in with the larger McElroy brand. I'm really trying not to be a kneejerk defender of people I don't know, but it seemed to me kind of like the article was trying to manufacture a bit of controversy for clicks.

Yeah I do have to agree with this, it kind of seemed like the stuff about Travis's social media presence was pretty irrelevant to the larger conversation, and it should have been clearer how much of this is coming from the community vs. from on McElhigh.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 17:30

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Sudden Loud Noise posted:

No, it was when some people talked about how it would be cool if Still Buffering did an episode about white privilege and the Smirl family lost their poo poo.

Oh okay, that was more reasonable for people to be mad about, since clearly Sydnee hosed up in responding like this was any old Facebook fight attacking her boomer mom instead of realizing the relationship with fans is different and she had a responsibility to not call that person out like she did. Having been a member of those Facebook groups back before this happened, though, I feel like Rachel is downplaying the vitriol with which people were attacking (not that it makes the Smirls' response OK, but it does explain why they reacted inappropriately). Thinking back, IIRC people were saying that not doing a white privilege episode (which I'm sure they didn't feel qualified to do) would make them racist, but Rachel is suggesting in that thread that Mary was getting defensive about white privilege existing at all? I dunno.

Ok Comboomer posted:

I don’t think Travis has done anything that’s any more performatively woke than writing a character named “Chalupa” as canonically trans and hispanic was for Justin.

Is the beef that Travis paints his nails, dyes his hair purple, and refers to himself as “the cute one”? Is it that you find the open mouth schtick annoying and/or fake?

Because if so, then as personally annoying as you might find that, it doesn’t really deserve an accusation of “performative woke”—unless you’re some kind of coded behavior essentialist who thinks that only queer men or transwomen should be allowed to be effeminate and have purple hair.

It feels like a lot of the people really leaning into the soyface poo poo are just looking for acceptable ways to be like “guys who look and act and sound like that just really piss me off and make me wanna beat ‘em up” but they’ve been socially conditioned to temper it with “but just to be clear it’s totally ok for real LGBTQ people to be like this, but this prick’s fair game because he’s ‘fake”.

I completely agree, and the soyboy/soyface thing is 100% just an "acceptable" way to call someone the homophobic f word

also not to detract from the larger point, but I don't think Lup or Taako were canonically hispanic, that was a fan thing

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 17:56

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Colonel Whitey posted:

Yeah it felt like their first attempt at *representation* and it was pretty ham fisted but it seemed like the fans (inc trans fans afaik) still responded well to it. Seems like Travis has taken the wrong lessons from that for Graduation, the stuff about the disabled character from the Vice article sounds cringe as hell.

hi hello, trans fan here who was very happy to have a trans character in something whose story wasn't all about how terrible it is to be trans or entirely focused on her transition. It didn't feel ham-fisted to me, just slightly awkward since they weren't quite sure how to approach doing that sensitively. IIRC they explicitly said Taako was gay and Lup was trans in a TTAZZ, which was a perfectly fine way to do it, imo.

The stuff with Rainier's introduction was definitely worse, but he did better with the character after that.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 18:30

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

inferis posted:

If it has nothing to do with the plot it�s kind of weird to out a trans person in a world where literally you can magically change genders.

What kind of plot, exactly, do you think a character being trans would "matter" enough for? Because like I said, the vast majority of those are about how being trans is terrible or entirely focused on transition, and I'm frankly tired of cis people writing those stories.

Why can't a character just be trans, like any other facet? I can see it being sort of weird if they had outed her in character, but they didn't do that. Why would magically being able to change genders change anything? Trans people aren't defined by our transition, and some of us proudly identify as transgender and don't just want to be seen as "a woman" or "a man" or whatever. There is no reason to assume one way or the other.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 18:50

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

inferis posted:

When did lup out herself trans? When did she say it was an important part of her identity that she wanted everyone to know?

...Is your argument that characters shouldn't be given a trait, and the audience shouldn't know about it, unless that character explicitly talks about it as an important part of their identity??? It's a facet of her character that makes people like me, who don't get much representation where we're not depicted as tormented tragic figures, happy. You also seem to be coming from the perspective that being trans is automatically something someone wouldn't want people to know or that other people shouldn't know about them, which is a more valid assumption for our world where it means you're likely to face discrimination for it, but not in a fantasy world where there's no indication that transphobia exists.

Just Chamber posted:

Dont we kind of live in a world where you can "magically" change genders anyway? Like the science is a kind of magic compared to not THAT long ago where someone's only option was to wear the clothing of the gender they identify as. It doesn't make it any less important if it's magic, especially if even if you live in a magical world you decide to change to one gender and stay that way.

Pretty much, lol. Hormones are magic as hell.

also lol I don't think Justin's getting ~cancelled~ over this, it's clearly just a dumb thing he said without thinking that he has immediately apologized for

Poor Miserable Gurgi posted:

It was kind of both. I think it started as a suggestion on Facebook, which they said they didn't feel qualified for, then a few fans started getting angry, and then the Smirl mom started heavily moderating and escalating the anger of the arguments and I think eventually saying some Boomer poo poo.

The fallout was that this was the incident that lead all of them to leave the fan pages, including the MBMBAM group, and several fans who had been part of the show like Rachel to be made persona non grata after having helped them run charity poo poo for past events. No one handled their poo poo well and they're probably lucky it was contained to facebook where no one cares.

Gotcha.

thecluckmeme posted:

Next TAZ should be in pathfinder

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 19:10

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Warbird posted:

Also Graduation is ok, forgettable at worst. Y�all need to chill.

this x 10000 :rolleyes:

Mission: Imp Hospital was kind of unlistenable for me but the rest has been totally fine doing-the-dishes listening fare.

I would also like to see a BDG-run game, though IDK how much experience he has with that (he was great as a player in Jenna's Cyberpunk game).

Entropic posted:

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought it was more like a small group of fans was suggesting topics like that and they said "yeah, no, this isn't really that kind of show, we're trying to be a lighthearted funny little show, getting into heavy politics is not really our wheelhouse at all" and the fans were like HOW DARE YOU

Yeah this is the thing I was talking about, see Gurgi's post from earlier--they hosed up the response to this and it escalated.

wizzardstaff posted:

I think that whether you describe something as "virtue signaling" or "performative wokeness" depends on how YOU, the speaker feel about the behavior in question.

If you think it's an admirable goal but someone is trying too hard, centering themselves too much, or just has a surface-level understanding of what they're proclaiming to support, then it's performative wokeness.

If you think that someone putting pronouns in their bio is a beta SJW cuck trying to white knight for the feminazis, then it's virtue signaling and we can hear all about it on your YouTube channel.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

I've always felt that the difference between "performative wokeness" and "virtue signaling" was intent. Someone signaling doesn't give a poo poo about the thing they're talking about, as long as people see them talking about it. Being performative means you do actually care about the thing but you're making a big deal, even if unintentionally, about supporting it.

Personally, it bugs me when cishet people loudly proclaim themselves Allies. I feel like that's a status that's given or earned through action and words instead of something you declare yourself.

That's just my interpretation and opinion though.

Thanks, these make sense. It's pretty clear that it's both about a judgment of intent and also virtue signaling as a term sets off alt-right warning bells that "performative wokeness" doesn't.

I'm personally fine with cishets making a big show of saying they're Allies as long as they actually back it up by learning the poo poo they need to learn in order to be good allies, and walking the walk. But I think it's really the same thing we're both aggravated by.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2021 22:27

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

but I thought these forums were troll-free...

# ¿ Mar 31, 2021 17:55

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

yeah actually they will posted:

I have a theory that every raccoon is the ghost of a Confederate Civil War hero.

this was loving dire to witness in person and I'm angry that you made me remember it

# ¿ Apr 2, 2021 22:20

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Ainsley McTree posted:

i have a question, more of a comment really: i have a podcast

gently caress THAT DUDE TOO

Ok Comboomer posted:

I’m p. sure I was at that one too (or maybe it was the year before) and blocked it out of my mind

lol I wouldn't blame you

# ¿ Apr 2, 2021 23:15

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

AndrewP posted:

I gather this was a "question" at a live show? was this finally what made them change formats?

Yes and it certainly contributed.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2021 00:57

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Elvis_Maximus posted:

Apparently the new TAZ is a total mess. They forgot to put in the Gary recap so it's just like a minute of dead silence and gary music. Travis telling characters what they're feeling. Pointlessly easy boss battles. Lots and lots of NPCs

Really runs the whole gamut of problems with Graduation.

The good news is that it's this one->finale->TTAZZ->new campaign that Griffin has been developing. Hopefully they can right the ship with the next one because I'd love to start listening again but man.. I just can't do it with Graduation

...The Gary thing is wrong, maybe it was true earlier but it wasn't in the version I am currently listening to? There is no Gary intro (just starts with the normal theme music, no weird silence) but that's for a reason that becomes obvious once you, you know, listen to the podcast episode you're posting about.

And while I'm not far enough in to say the other stuff does or doesn't happen, yes, there are a lot of NPCs because this is the climactic battle where the party and all their allies--so... the NPCs--defend the school. At least thus far, there has not been any NPCs-talking-to-each-other-for-5-minutes bullshit that he used to do earlier on.

Stroop There It Is fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Apr 8, 2021

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 15:13

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Alaois posted:

im glad the one guy who likes graduation posts in this thread

Lol I like it inasmuch as I mildly enjoy listening to it. It's my least favorite TAZ campaign and I have plenty of problems with it. I really did not like the Mission: Imp Hospital episodes but the campaign has been alright otherwise.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 15:41

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

docbeard posted:

I thiiiiiiiink the idea was that the AI groupmind that was the final big bad had been programmed to shut down if it ever got too openly antagonistic and shoving Beacon into its heart turned its antagonism up to 11. Or something.

Yeah basically. Putting Beacon in pushed the "average" belligerence of the hivemind to a bajillion because Beacon was created to sow war (and was the ultimate rear end in a top hat). The hivemind's self-termination mechanism kicked in since it became what it was supposed to prevent.

Bip Roberts posted:

Low stakes Amnesty was good but once it became a dumb save-the-world plot it became way more arduous.

TBH while I liked the rest of Amnesty, I also enjoyed low-stakes Amnesty more (probably because I'm much more interested in monster hunters at that level--ask me my thoughts on Hunter: the Reckoning. Just kidding, don't.)

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 18:54

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

inferis posted:

not to be That Guy but I looked up the impact factor of this journal because who tf would publish this, and it's a whopping 0.78 :lol:

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 20:45

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

inferis posted:

What the gently caress is impact factor nerd

it's basically a proxy for "how important is this journal in its field" based on number of citations. that number is.... low

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 21:02

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

inferis posted:

That wasn�t already clear from either the title of the article or the name of the journal?

Article title yes, which is why I suspected it would be funny; journal title no, because while gender studies as a field tends to have lower impact factors, this is low even for that

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 21:19

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

some plague rats posted:

Becoming so woke I'm demanding the McElroys do an episode in blackface

I enjoy reading all your posts in Skelly's voice and this was no exception

Endorph posted:

wait did the mcelboys actually run liberty lender ads? saw a random article mention it and uh, jesus if true

They've def advertised Prosper.com which is peer-to-peer lending, no idea how bad they are tho

# ¿ Apr 9, 2021 16:22

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Ned is my favorite Clint character.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2021 02:31

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

BDG has none of the middle sibling energy that defines Travis

# ¿ Apr 12, 2021 16:34

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Sankis posted:

Did they seriously do an ad for 25% APR personal loans on the latest TAZ?

https://twitter.com/Seglegs/status/1381670802463076357

edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/maximumfun/comments/mnt0wm/maxfun_ad_policy/ jesse thorn's response. it's NOT GREAT

sucks they did that (I have skipped the TAZ ads entirely for a long time) but also lol at the rest of the tweet

some plague rats posted:

I'm unclear on if this an attempt at a defense of the brothers or what you were going for here

what happened to your av!! :ohdear:

# ¿ Apr 13, 2021 03:41

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Ainsley McTree posted:

All I know about Mission to Zyxx is that Paul F Tompkins played a character called "Rip Seeso" on it and that's very funny to me. mcelroy-adjacent even

This still makes me crack up whenever I think about it

Entropic posted:

I miss Beano.

Beano know.

I do love AJ very much though.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2021 02:11

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

some plague rats posted:

The RTOM patreon is worth the entry fee just for the vampire: the masquerade one off, which is one of the funniest things I've ever listened to

Oh my god, never have I signed up for a Patreon so quickly

# ¿ May 3, 2021 13:15

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

I for one am stoked for this sentient coral golem

# ¿ May 3, 2021 17:11

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Ariong posted:

"If we get to this donation level then I'll shave my beard/head" is a pretty normal fun thing to do for a donation drive. I came here to snark about how since it's Travis doing it people will still find a way to spin it as some unique and/or terrible thing, but I was way too late and it happened in the very next post after it came up.

tbh what did you expect

Colonel Whitey posted:

Ain�t it true. Get him on mbmbam

c'mooon he was already amazing on Zyxx, we need this

# ¿ May 12, 2021 20:08

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Sankis posted:

Was that the you have to shoot the babies one? The whole thing was so good.

That was the part that had me howling.

# ¿ May 15, 2021 02:52

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

how about this, don't listen to the thing you are not enjoying, and then if something comes up in the regular D&D episodes that you don't understand, go ahead and post about it ITT and we'll fill you in???

# ¿ May 28, 2021 19:24

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

99% sure they just happened to hire someone named Rachel as opposed to Griffin's wife, who is also busy with their infant and young kid, having to do all the editing

# ¿ Jun 3, 2021 21:52

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Ok Comboomer posted:

you ever been to a party full of MaxFun fans?

yes and it was awkward as gently caress but still way better than goons scoffing and moaning about a completely inoffensive pop song

now the Sawbones theme, that I can see

e: vvv a group of adventurers, duh

Stroop There It Is fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Aug 10, 2021

# ¿ Aug 10, 2021 16:26

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Definitely enjoying Ethersea, lol the reveal at the end of the episode

# ¿ Aug 19, 2021 18:09

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Previa_fun posted:

it just hits my ear weird idk. Like I don't hear it even in other medical contexts but I live in the south and am a dummy.

I thought it was more a "mcelroys afraid of their fans" thing but maybe not

It will feel weird at first! The vast majority of pregnant people over the course of history have been cis women, so why bother saying "pregnant people" or "people with uteruses"? I get why that can seem like an awkward affectation.

Well, as a trans guy, I generally expect to be misgendered in conversations about reproductive health. I am used to people using "women" in that context because I'm used to people forgetting that we, people assigned female at birth who don't identify as women, exist and can get pregnant. (Some of us, especially trans men, do not want to ever get pregnant, but others do. These are individual things.) I'm used to people forgetting that there are women, cis and trans, who don't have uteruses/can't get pregnant. A lot of the time, I'm okay with just letting it go because I think the focus of the conversation sometimes being on cisgender women, who do make up the vast majority of people who have uteruses or carry children, is fine.

But it feels a little lovely every time, because it essentially says, "having a uterus means you're a woman" and therefore either disrespects our identities or says we don't exist. So someone going out of their way to specify what they actually mean--it's irrelevant what gender someone identifies as if what we're actually talking about is biologically carrying children--means a lot. It means they recognize this problem of AFAB non-women being excluded and ignored from important conversations about our health and bodies, and have gone out of their way to address that.

So while I understand the feeling that it's odd or tortured to say these things, the purpose of it is to be respectful, and it makes a big difference to people like me.

# ¿ Aug 25, 2021 15:00

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

It's not a slur, it's just sexist and homophobic.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2021 14:52

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

lol if you doubt those diagnoses for even a second, but no, there is no evidence they're self-diagnosed and he's talked about therapy and medication a bit before iirc like Justin has re: GAD (and Sydnee has re: PPD).

# ¿ Sep 10, 2021 17:33

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

is it just me or is Urchin voice 100% Meatwad

Sudden Loud Noise posted:

He has specifically stated (in the past so it's very possible he has actually been diagnosed by a professional at this point) that his NPD was self diagnosed.

https://twitter.com/travismcelroy/status/812046832142585856?s=20
(The tweet he's responding to is now protected, but was asking about NPD.)

I'm going by what he's said in the interim but can't source it so :shrug:

Bip Roberts posted:

drat no penis disorder

that's what I have

I'm a trans guy :imunfunny:

Stroop There It Is fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 10, 2021

# ¿ Sep 10, 2021 19:47

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

Shinjobi posted:

Poor space ghost

I wanna know where they came from, Griffin made it sound kinda like they were regular people who were in Ethersea water too long. Were there any other clues about that?

Also the reveal at the end was great. I am glad I listened to the world-creation episodes, because imo it's been super cool to see how that stuff gets integrated.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2021 18:56

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

ACTUALLY I heard that Clayton had to insert those credits himself against the McElroys' wishes!!!!!!! THEY wanted to credit it to Wendy's, who finances all of their art-stealing

# ¿ Sep 23, 2021 18:01

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 01:33

Stroop There It Is: Mar 11, 2012

just lol if you don't annoy your DM multiple times a session with Speak with Animals

# ¿ Sep 30, 2021 22:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Rapidly Going Deaf > McElory + BDG Love Zone

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