Derek Chauvin Trial Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Derek Chauvin Trial Thread

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Kevyn posted:

Are they sequestered in a hotel like the OJ jury?

They will be sequestered during deliberations if it lasts more than a day. Otherwise, unless some external situation occurs in the middle of the trial that drastically affects it, they will not be sequestered during the trial itself. This was discussed heavily in the court during the jury selection (since it could affect the feasibility of people serving on the jury, e.g. single parents).

Dapper_Swindler posted:

This. They are very clearly trying to throw him into the pit to save themselves and peoples �trust� in them. I think if the chief is testifying against him, he might be hosed.

I'm almost positive it was already announced that Chief Arradondo is testifying. Assuming that is correct, he will definitely be a witness for the prosecution.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 2, 2021

# ¿ Apr 2, 2021 18:08

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 12:14

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

they did upthread. i won't say chauvin is hosed, but it doesn't look good for him right now. the cops arnt blue linging for him because it was too awful even for them, for both cynically and probably genuine reasons. unlike the GOP and many other police departments, it seems like these guys realize sometimes you have to throw an obvious loving psycho to the wolves/justice to keep doing your thing unmolested.

Oh whoops, sorry I got confused and didn't read upthread enough. Thanks for pointing this out!

Jaxyon posted:

Cops are continuing and to this day trying to protect him and justify his actions. That's why that cop speaking out is notable and he'll probably receive blowback and possibly turn up dead for doing it. It's happened to police before for breaking the line.

I'm not confident at all this will seriously change things.

Have you been paying attention to the trial? 2 sergeants (one of whom was Chauvin's direct supervisor) and a lieutenant have already testified against Chauvin, with the Police Chief (and possibly more) to come. It's a lot more than 1 cop, the whole department seems to be running away from him. They know it's a losing battle.

But I agree that things won't seriously change with the overall picture of the blue wall of silence/etc. MPD just realizes that it's hopeless to keep up the facade in this particular case.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 2, 2021

# ¿ Apr 2, 2021 23:04

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

SchnorkIes posted:

I think based on a freelancer like Rittenhouse being allowed to disappear without consequences they will circle the wagons around an actual cop for sure.

Why are you trying to compare this trial to Rittenhouse's case? They are not even close to being similar to the other.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Apr 3, 2021

# ¿ Apr 3, 2021 04:22

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Sjs00 posted:

Well if the similarities aren't immediately obvious then they must be subjective and coincidental rather than factual and definite.
I'm not going to pretend you have no loving idea

They're both a case involving murder. The murderer is a white ~~man~~ male (Rittenhouse wasn't even a legal adult at the time). That's literally the only thing they have in common. Hell, they don't even both involve the same type of weapon used to commit the murder.

E:

BoldFace posted:

This would be a much more clear-cut case if Floyd didn't happen to be a drug addict ex-con. Even though he is not on trial, things like these often affect how older jurors perceive the case.

IMO (not a lawyer), it seems like the prosecution is doing a pretty good job at handling it. Being upfront and honest about it, while driving home that doing drugs is not a new experience for Floyd where his body could have an unexpected reaction (e.g. death). Floyd's girlfriend's testimony was especially powerful.

As far as the jurors, during jury selection the prosecution also did a pretty good job at looking from this perspective as well. All potential jurors were asked about their experience with addiction (personal or otherwise) and their views on people who are addicted to drugs. If anyone said that they would have a negative impression of someone if they learned that they were a drug user (or addicted to drugs), the prosecution would strike them (if they weren't already dismissed by the judge for another reason).

Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Apr 3, 2021

# ¿ Apr 3, 2021 18:24

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

chinigz posted:

riddle me this, as a non american law knower. The standard of proof in a criminal trial is fairly high, if defense can raise the possibility that Floyd died of an overdose and point to the autopsy that shows fentanyl in the blood - doesn't that prevent them reaching 'beyond reasonable doubt' and Chauvin could get off some or all of the charges?

As long as the state provides proof that Chauvin contributed to the death, that should be enough for a conviction. I'm a little unsure of the percentage (e.g. "primary cause of death" vs "partly contributed"). Maybe a law Goon can fill in these details.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Apr 8, 2021

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 14:03

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Unkempt posted:

A bigger problem is that as I understand it, the verdict has to be unanimous (which is not the case in the UK). One Trumpy dickhead and you're hosed.

Yea. Although listening to the jury selection, I think this is less likely than, for instance, the Darren Wilson case. The state seemed to have been pretty good at striking people who believe cops more than the average person, pro blue lives matter, etc. Unless there was a super Trumpy person who was really good at lying, of course.

Also, if you're unaware of the Twin Cities, the jury selection is from Hennepin County (which includes Minneapolis), which is fairly liberal overall. There are some ultra-Trump people here, but they're much fewer and far between than if the trial would have gotten moved.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 16:14

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

kolby posted:

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1379883253327335434?s=20
https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1379884110538280960?s=20

I don't get the reasoning of this by either side.

If he said he ate too many drugs, then you probably want to call an ambulance quicker and not put your knee on his neck. Why would the defense even bring that up?

If he said he didn't do any drugs, then who loving cares? You still don't put your knee on his neck but the officer can say, "He said he wasn't on drugs so we handled him differently than someone having an overdose." So why would the prosecution bring that up?

It seems like they both forgot what side they were arguing for.

So... from a general perspective/overview, the defense is arguing he died solely from a drug OD. The EMTs were already called, and I believe escalated to siren lights/ASAP, before this point of time. So the defense was trying to use that as saying "he ingested a bunch of drugs right before the attempted arrest, causing the OD".

As far as the knee on the neck, the defense is using the argument that there was a "volatile/hostile crowd" making it harder for Chauvin to concentrate. They're making this claim along with anecdotal evidence about how when someone is unconscious, theoretically they can become conscious again and fight even harder than they were previously. So he was trying to hold him in a "secure" position until the EMTs arrived.

As far as the drugs overall, both sides acknowledge he was on drugs. They were found in his body in the autopsy, they found a pill in the back of the police car with his DNA on it, etc. The prosecution was just trying to dispute Floyd claiming he downed a bunch of drugs at once right before the attempted arrest.

As a side note, I think the current expert witness (of lungs/breathing in general) is doing a drat good job demonstrating how Chuavin's knee physically constrained the breathing of Floyd.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Apr 8, 2021

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 17:13

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Craptacular! posted:

Qualified immunity is a policy enacted by the courts, without a public vote, that protects police departments from the actions of their own bad actors by not allowing departments to be sued because a judge said so. There's not much point in suing police departments because there is no defined test used for qualified immunity, the judge simply decides that the entire department shouldn't pay the price for one bad man making the fuckup of a lifetime and that's that.

In other countries where departments are not so protected, there's more effort to remove bad actors before they kill someone.

Qualified immunity is no longer the case for Colorado and New Mexico :toot:

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 20:46

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Craptacular! posted:

Well that's good, because I was just writing about how the Supreme Court hosed it up and it will take our whole lives to un-gently caress it. Glad that's not the case.

Yep. I didn't even know NM rescinded it, but I guess it just got signed into law yesterday: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksi...sh=5b56d42c79ad

E: I just finished up (half listening to) Dr Tobin's testimony, did that seem as damning as I think it is? Or does anyone think Nelson's defense of "NERD!" might actually land with the jury?

Kalit fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Apr 8, 2021

# ¿ Apr 8, 2021 20:48

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Velocity Raptor posted:

I thought it was pretty damning as well, especially when they pointed out in that one image that Chauvin's feet weren't resting on the ground when he was kneeling on Mr. Floyd's neck. However, I should preface this with I fully believe Chauvin should be convicted, so my views are biased.

E:
Honestly pretty impressed with how well the prosecution is busting down each of the alternate causes of death presented by the defense.

Yea, these expert witnesses the past day have done a pretty good job at showing this is not an overdose.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

so who is the defense using as its witnesses and poo poo?

The defense potential witness list is here: https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/WitnessList02082021.pdf. Some of these were already called by the state. I'm wondering what the testimonies of the Park Police personnel will be like, if they are called (who were on site at least part of the time).

Interesting enough, the first name in the Defense Experts category is David Fowler, the former chief medical examiner for Maryland who's currently facing a wrongful death lawsuit: https://www.marylandmatters.org/2020/12/17/anton-blacks-family-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit-targeting-cops-medical-examiner/

Also, as an FYI, all of the trial documents that are already publicly available can be found here: https://mncourts.gov/StateofMinnesotavDerekChauvin

Kalit fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Apr 9, 2021

# ¿ Apr 9, 2021 13:38

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

After that cross examination of Dr. Thomas, I half expected Chauvin to fire Nelson on the spot. Some of those questions/hypotheticals were extremely embarrassing :laffo:

E: For context, one of Nelson's hypotheticals was as follows: If Mr. Floyd was found dead in his house by himself without any other external circumstances present (e.g. no cops, etc), would she rule that death as a drug overdose?

Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Apr 9, 2021

# ¿ Apr 9, 2021 18:56

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

zzyzx posted:

At one point the chief ME made a similar statement prior to trial; everyone knows it's going to come up during his testimony, so Nelson is presumably asking if Dr. Thomas would reach the same conclusion.

* ng/mL of fentanyl; Floyd's was ~11, IIRC.

Obviously, the prosecution will counter that he wasn't found dead with no other apparent causes, among other things.

I actually didn't know chief ME made that statement, makes a little more sense. But still hilarious.

FYI, if you haven't been following the trial closely, it's already been stated over and over again by both sides that 11ng could be a lethal amount, but it's a huge range and there's a lot of people who that is not a lethal amount for.

To me, it's entertaining that Nelson tried to return to this simplistic argument with Dr. Thomas, who is an expert witness talking about why this was not an overdose death based on scientific reasons because of all of the known circumstances/exhibits/etc.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2021 19:39

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Zeroisanumber posted:

George Floyd was called "Big George" for a reason. From personal experience I can say that effective levels of prescription drugs are probably 50% higher than they are for average-sized humans. Considering his size and acquired tolerance, him having a bunch of fentanyl in his system isn't surprising.

Along these lines, do you (or anyone) know if the amount of fentanyl that causes an OD has a correlation with body weight/size, assuming tolerance is the same? I keep wondering why this isn't brought up by expert witnesses, if there's no data on body sizes for those who OD'd or if the data doesn't show this. Granted, I guess they probably don't know the tolerance of most of those people....but I figured a study would have included this (I can't find any based on a quick Google search myself and am far from an expert)

Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Apr 10, 2021

# ¿ Apr 10, 2021 15:32

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

happyhippy posted:

They had some graphs at the trial, showing the amount of fentanyl in previous cases, its around this time period here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLUCIDdJgnM&t=4655s

In fact this whole video has it all, its a good watch to learn about it.

iirc George had like 20 times lower than the average case where it was cause of death.

I did see that part, which was great. But I was specifically wondering about the correlation of the amount of fentanyl to body weight/size (unless I missed Dr Isenschmid talking about that part, which I don't think I did).

# ¿ Apr 10, 2021 16:00

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

BoldFace posted:

Once you start questioning your witnesses about people OD'ing with fentanyl, you give an opportunity for the defense to do the same. This is pretty risky, and Nelson might be able to squeeze some pretty damning answers from the experts. Instead, prosecution already brought up statistics about fentanyl levels in DUI arrests, which effectively makes the case that Floyd's fentanyl levels weren't completely off the charts.

Ohhh right, that makes sense!

Adenoid Dan posted:

That will depend on how the drug partitions into fat and other factors. Fentanyl is pretty fat soluble, so the more fat there is in proportion to lean body mass, the higher the dose that will be required - but I'm not sure if they know by how much.

I'm not sure if it is standard to dose by lean body weight. But almost certainly, it does not scale linearly with body weight.

Ahh okay. Thanks for the answers!

# ¿ Apr 11, 2021 18:57

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

The Lord of Hats posted:

This testimony feels like a slam dunk. Obviously there�s more to the case, but the medical aspect seems like a closed case.

That last question/answer seemed devastating to the defense. I'm a little confused, did Nelson think that he would get a "it's theoretically possible" type answer from Dr. Rich?

For those who didn't see it:

Nelson:

quote:

But in terms of the combination. The, the drugs, every-, the high blood pressure. The..., take the paraganglioma out of it, right? The increase of adrenaline from uh, a struggle with officers. All of those things combined together, even in the absence of prone restraint, could have resulted in death. Yes or no, sir?

Dr. Rich:

quote:

Upon my review of the evidence of the facts of the case, I found no evidence to support that.

Nelson:

quote:

Fair enough, thank you.

E: VVVV Not sure if you're talking about my post or currently. Currently, it's the spark of life testimony. I expanded my post anyways to give people more context on what I'm referring to.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 12, 2021

# ¿ Apr 12, 2021 18:51

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

beejay posted:

I really burned myself out on this trial by watching livestreams. I feel bad for the jury. I do think the prosecution proved the case very well.

Yea, I'm curious on what the defense witnesses will be like. It seems hard to be able to unravel the case that the prosecution built.

From the direct examinations of these first two defense witnesses, it seems like Nelson is just trying to build doubt by vague descriptions and letting things linger. Although I know they were very limited in what they could talk about relating to Mr. Floyd's police interaction from 2019.

If it continues this way, I cannot imagine the jury will allow that doubt to creep in. Although I am not a lawyer, so for me :iiam:

Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 13, 2021

# ¿ Apr 13, 2021 16:10

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Charlz Guybon posted:

What's the difference between 2nd degree and 3rd degree murder?

The specifics on these charges can vary between states, I believe. I am not a lawyer, but here's the local newspaper summary:

quote:

What is second-degree unintentional murder?
For a conviction of second-degree unintentional murder, the state's prosecutors will have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him. This is the most serious charge and carries a presumed sentence in this case of 10 3⁄4 years to 15 years, according to state sentencing guidelines.

The cause of Floyd's death is likely to be a major focus of the trial. Expect the defense to question Floyd's overall health and try to claim that he was already compromised before Chauvin put his knee on his neck. Prosecutors are likely to assert that Floyd would still be alive if the former officer hadn't pinned his neck to the ground for about nine minutes. There will almost certainly be much discussion about Floyd's drug use and underlying health conditions.

What will not be an issue: whether Chauvin intended to kill Floyd. None of the charges require prosecutors to prove the former officer was trying to kill him.

What is third-degree murder?
Initially, Chauvin faced an additional charge of third-degree murder, but Cahill dismissed that charge and denied a request from the prosecution to reinstate it. The Minnesota Court of Appeals ruled Friday that the judge was wrong to refuse reinstating the third-degree murder charge and sent the case back to Cahill for consideration. After the Minnesota Supreme Court declined to consider an appeal from the defense, Cahill reinstated the charge Thursday. It also carries a presumptive sentence in this case of 10 3⁄4 years to 15 years, according to state sentencing guidelines.

Third-degree murder requires prosecutors to prove that someone caused the death of another "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." Legal experts note that the definition of "depraved mind" is murky� as is the legal line between "depraved mind" and the "culpable negligence" standard for manslaughter.

Historically, third-degree murder has been used to prosecute drug dealers who sold deadly products but weren't planning to kill specific individuals. But in 2019, former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor was convicted of third-degree murder in the death of Justine Ruszczyk Damond after she called 911 to report a possible sexual assault in progress in the alley near her house. Noor fatally shot Damond from the passenger seat of a squad car, firing across his partner, who had been driving. The state Court of Appeals narrowly upheld his conviction, and the state Supreme Court will hear the case in June. Noor is currently serving a 10�-year sentence. He is the only police officer ever to be convicted of murder for an on-duty incident in Minnesota.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 13:37

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Is it just me, or does playing long video clips during closing arguments that were already shown seem like a poor strategy? I feel like the jury would pay less and less attention (or roll their eyes more and more since they already saw them) as they go on.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Apr 19, 2021

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 18:30

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Kirios posted:

I'm starting to think he is only gonna get manslaughter. And that's not enough.

Why do you think this? It seems like the closing arguments is looking better for the prosecution.

Gaupo Guacho posted:

was amber guyger one of the first cops to be convicted in years? I remember there was developing public sentiment against police killings before the Floyd case altho obviously not on the same level

Mohamed Noor was convicted. Which .... you know.... minority cop killing a white woman in a good neighborhood.....

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 21:42

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

its a hail mary to try again. i don't have a lot of confidence for a conviction personally just because its a cop but it is a pretty big hint that the defense thinks he screwed up big time.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing it's just to get these objections on the record for a future appeals attempt? I don't think anyone actually thinks that the judge would throw out the case at this point.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 22:13

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Crosby B. Alfred posted:

Ugh....

Granted, I totally I get that people have a right to appeal have to go through this whole process again is awful.

As an FYI, if an appeals trial is granted, it will be years in the future. The appeals process is very long and requires a high bar to be even granted an appeals trial. I think it's impossible to say at this point if it's likely or not likely that an appeals trial will be granted along with any possible outcomes (any law goons, please correct me if I'm wrong).

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 22:32

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

Whats the difference between murder 3 and manslaughter in minnesota?

Murder charges I posted earlier

Kalit posted:

The specifics on these charges can vary between states, I believe. I am not a lawyer, but here's the local newspaper summary:

quote:
What is second-degree unintentional murder?
For a conviction of second-degree unintentional murder, the state's prosecutors will have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him. This is the most serious charge and carries a presumed sentence in this case of 10 3⁄4 years to 15 years, according to state sentencing guidelines.

The cause of Floyd's death is likely to be a major focus of the trial. Expect the defense to question Floyd's overall health and try to claim that he was already compromised before Chauvin put his knee on his neck. Prosecutors are likely to assert that Floyd would still be alive if the former officer hadn't pinned his neck to the ground for about nine minutes. There will almost certainly be much discussion about Floyd's drug use and underlying health conditions.

What will not be an issue: whether Chauvin intended to kill Floyd. None of the charges require prosecutors to prove the former officer was trying to kill him.

What is third-degree murder?
Initially, Chauvin faced an additional charge of third-degree murder, but Cahill dismissed that charge and denied a request from the prosecution to reinstate it. The Minnesota Court of Appeals ruled Friday that the judge was wrong to refuse reinstating the third-degree murder charge and sent the case back to Cahill for consideration. After the Minnesota Supreme Court declined to consider an appeal from the defense, Cahill reinstated the charge Thursday. It also carries a presumptive sentence in this case of 10 3⁄4 years to 15 years, according to state sentencing guidelines.

Third-degree murder requires prosecutors to prove that someone caused the death of another "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." Legal experts note that the definition of "depraved mind" is murky� as is the legal line between "depraved mind" and the "culpable negligence" standard for manslaughter.

Historically, third-degree murder has been used to prosecute drug dealers who sold deadly products but weren't planning to kill specific individuals. But in 2019, former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor was convicted of third-degree murder in the death of Justine Ruszczyk Damond after she called 911 to report a possible sexual assault in progress in the alley near her house. Noor fatally shot Damond from the passenger seat of a squad car, firing across his partner, who had been driving. The state Court of Appeals narrowly upheld his conviction, and the state Supreme Court will hear the case in June. Noor is currently serving a 10�-year sentence. He is the only police officer ever to be convicted of murder for an on-duty incident in Minnesota.

Here's manslaughter:

quote:

What is second-degree manslaughter?
In order to convict Chauvin of second-degree manslaughter, prosecutors must show beyond a reasonable doubt that he was "culpably negligent" and took an "unreasonable risk" with Floyd's life when he restrained him and that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great harm. Prosecutors do not have to prove that Chauvin's actions intended to cause Floyd's death, only that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great bodily harm. This charge carries a presumptive sentence of four years.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Apr 19, 2021

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 23:24

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Gaupo Guacho posted:

who gives a poo poo if she's correct? the point is that if she gives the defense even a slight chance to successfully plead for a mistrial because she had to opine on the verdict before it happens then she's giving Chavun a lifeline. the most important thing right now is that this guy actually serves real jail time

this is all inherently obvious but I guess ill state it for clarity

TBH, I would be shocked if that was a factor in an appeals. She has nothing to do with the trial and the jury was given instructions to not watch the news. So unless a juror admitted they heard that news, I cannot imagine it being a consideration. Warning: I am not a lawyer, so I might be 100% wrong.

E: As an addendum, I do agree with you that she shouldn't have made a public statement about the outcome of the trial because of news outlets picking it up before the verdict. But I would say the chances of it actually affecting an appeals hearing is nearly 0%

Kalit fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 20, 2021

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 00:03

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

JonathonSpectre posted:

"Well, looks like 11 of us are ready to convict and Martin in the MAGA hat says no? Okay, we'll go tell the world about your decision uh I mean our decision, Martin. Later tonight I'll write an email to a friend about the trial with all the details, you know, names, addresses, all that. I hope it doesn't get leaked online immediately! You know how those hackers are today!"

Is the jury room enough of a "black box" that this can happen?

If it's any consolation, I listened to the jury selection and the only way there's a juror with "cops can do no harm" or MAGA-ish views is if they were insanely good at lying. The prosecution did a good job at striking down any jurors who expressed those views or who were too tight-lipped to know.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Apr 20, 2021

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 14:34

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

CommieGIR posted:

Same. I fully expect, given the jury selection questions, that there's at least one or two asshats in there who will hang the jury. I will be absolutely delighted to be wrong.

Why do the questions asked on the questionnaire lead you to think there's more possibility of having jurors like that? If any of those questions had not been asked on the questionnaire, the prosecutor or the defense counsel would have asked all of them during the jury selection process anyways.

Gunthen posted:

I hear what your saying. But a Judge saying it's cause for the whole case to get overturned is still pretty radical. Even is there is a conviction, we are a long way off from the end of this clusterfuck.

Eh, the judge is saying what Nelson was going to do anyways, it's not a secret. That's the only reason why Nelson brought it up.

E: Also, the judge didn't say it's cause to have the case get overturned. Just that it's something that Nelson can bring up in appeals later.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 20, 2021

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 16:15

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

mdemone posted:

Yeah, that sucks but it sounds about right for the comparison. After all, police chiefs are very rarely fired or forced to resign after their officers kill someone.

I'm pleasantly surprised it actually happened in Brooklyn Center.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 17:18

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Gunthen posted:

The Judge verbatim said that what Maxim Waters did could overturn the trial.

"I give you that congresswomen Waters may have give you something on appeal, that may result in this whole trial being overturned."

As Ravenfood stated, the may in the statement is carrying a lot of weight. Which is why I stated that this just meant to bring it up in appeals. That's far, far different than claiming Judge Cahill saying it is cause for the case to get overturned, like you previously stated.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 18:19

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Gunthen posted:

I didn't say is definitely would, I said if could. But the root of what I was trying to get to, was simply that regardless of the Jury deliberations. This whole situation is far from over.

Jury members are driving through Riot's to get to court every day. Members of Congress are calling for increased action in confronting the reality of racism in American Justice. It is hard to argue that circumstances don't sway a Jury. And when the burden to proof is on the prosecution, it makes for a difficult reality.There is a saying "Better that 10 guilty men go free, then one innocent man be punished." The reality of that understanding of law leads to a poo poo situation were sometimes a monster goes free. And I think there is a real possibility we are about to witness the consequences of that.

Where are these riots and why haven't I seen them when I've been biking through downtown these past few weeks?

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 18:24

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Gunthen posted:

https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...olice-encounter

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/12/us/protests-today-daunte-wright-minneapolis

There have been protests in the Minneapolis Area after the Daunte Wright shooting in the last week.

Brooklyn Center is not even in the same county as Minneapolis. And the looting/burning only occurred a couple of nights, not during the day, mostly in Brooklyn Center (a handful of stores got looted in Minneapolis). The rest were protests that the police decided to escalate by firing tear gas/etc.

All of the jurors live in Hennepin county. None of them were driving through any of it. Certainly not every day.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 18:40

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

redreader posted:

I haven't been reading the thread and I came to ask a question so I apologise if this has been covered in depth already:

Does the jury have some weird set of instructions, similar to what I've heard juries being told in the past, like 'you're not here to decide anything other than <very narrow definition or set of circumstances>'

Like I heard (probably in a legal podcast) some story about a jury that didn't want to have some guy punished for doing a crime they thought was basically a bullshit non-crime, but they were instructed that all they were there to do was to decide whether or not the person did the thing, and they weren't allowed to say the person did not do the thing.

I know that sounds really dumb. But I'm basically asking: Do the public think the jury is, for instance, deciding whether or not the police officer was being bad, but in fact they're actually deciding <some other weird set of legal circumstances that most people have no idea about>?

You can hear Judge Cahill read the full jury instructions here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVq9SFwSmao&t=4024s. I think what happens is the prosecution and defense can push for some specific wording in the jury instructions and that Judge Cahill went with the prosecution's version (I think I heard that from WaPo correspondents).

When I was listening to it, it sounded favorable for the prosecution. For example, one section he read was that the jury does not have to find that Chauvin showed intent on breaking the law, just intent that he used force on Mr. Floyd.

Gunthen posted:

https://www.kare11.com/article/news...4b-a377dab0b87f

Protests are happening at the Hennepin County Government Center..

Protests are not riots

Jaxyon posted:

Since white people, even ones who think they're not racist, will readily accept negative consequences for black women, there's a reason they're hammering on this.

And it's actually Maxine's fault because

When people started going off I was like "holy poo poo Waters must have really said some serious poo poo, go her!" and then I read it and "oh..."

Has anyone ITT said that any appeal hearing that Chauvin wins will be Waters' fault? I think she shouldn't have made that public statement, but any future appeals win definitely won't be her fault. I'll probably mostly blame the city with them making the settlement, along with its amount, public during jury selection.

Kalit fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Apr 20, 2021

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 18:52

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

karthun posted:

Brooklyn Center is in Hennepin county. Havn't seen any rioting but drat if the entire metro is a tinderbox right now. Everyone is on edge and if Chauvin isn't convicted I fear that the city is going to burn.

Huh, I'll be damned. For some reason I was thinking it was in Anoka county, I feel stupid. Thanks for the correction!

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 18:58

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

I�d be genuinely shocked if he was acquitted. The prosecution did a mostly great job and had the cops testifying against him.

Yea, I agree with this. The biggest question is the murder 2 charge. But even that, I feel like was covered well enough by the state to have everyone say "nope" this quickly.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 20:46

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Skyarb posted:

"Hey we need to interview someone about how they feel about this verdict, who should we get?"

"I know, I'll interview this random white girl who will talk about how the real victim of this verdict could be tourism".

I stopped listening after about 5 seconds, so I didn't even know that's what she was talking about.

E:

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

So I just heard that the juror's names will eventually be released? I thought they were kept anonymous in perpetuity.
Is this normal? I'm kind of worried, assuming they convict - especially of the more appropriate crimes - that the pigs might retaliate.

It's normal. The judge releases them when he deems it's "safe" (either months or years). The jurors were all warned about this during jury selection and the ones who said they would still feel unsafe were dismissed by the judge

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 21:40

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Crazy Ted posted:

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure so I figured I'd ask in here. Also:

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1384617783254716426

You know you hosed up when Jeanine goddamn Pirro says "Yes that cop is guilty of everything"

When this happened literally everyone was outraged. Even that poo poo heap former President said it was wrong. I'm awaiting to see how many of them change their minds with this verdict though....

E:

CommieGIR posted:

I still believe this only happened because so many police testified against him - From trainers to supervisors.

Yea, this is probably true. Here's to hoping that it's not a 1-off occurrence.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 22:36

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

OwlFancier posted:

They're all loving doing it what the gently caress

https://twitter.com/MayorFrey/status/1384619597576474625

Is this the same loving idiot who got booed out of a protest he decided to try and speak to?

Ooooofff, I like Frey, but this is not great... And yes it is, I was at that protest.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2021 23:13

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Along the lines of what Paracaidas posted for Blakeley factors, there is a fantastic writeup by a MN criminal defense attorney that explains the sentencing process for this case here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/mv1sli/chauvin_sentencing_and_beyond_answering_your/. Sorry for the reddit link, but it's extremely informative for anyone who's interested and unfamiliar with sentencing and MN specifics (especially regarding Blakeley).

# ¿ Apr 21, 2021 13:51

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

Vorik posted:

Honestly the people who are at most fault here are her parents. They were standing right behind Makiah, outside their home, watching her argue with people while holding a knife. They completely and utterly failed that child. The fact that the situation even got to that point speaks volumes to how utterly incompetent they are as parents. The cop had mere seconds from the moment he arrived to when Makiah started charging at people with a knife. American police have never been known for their de-escalation tactics so I'm not sure how much different things would have turned out if he'd gotten there earlier, but this isn't really a case of the police overreacting.

To the poster who said "How lethal could a knife really be"? A couple of weeks back there was a video of a group of 12 year olds who got into a scuffle at Walmart. One of the girls had brought a knife with her. She stabbed the girl she was fighting a single time and that's all it took for her to bleed to death before the ambulance could get there. That police officer could have very well saved the woman in pink's life. She was a second or two away from getting stabbed.

I'm sad Makiah didn't have better people in her life who could have prevented the situation from getting to the point that it did.

FYI, I think an important thing to be aware of before criticizing parenting is that this is a foster home. It's unclear how long she had been in this foster home for, how long these people have known her, etc: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/21/columbus-police-shot-killed-teen-girl-what-we-know/7316707002/

quote:

Police haven't released the name of the person shot, but Franklin County Children's Services said the girl killed was 16-year-old Ma�Khia Bryant and that she was in foster care and in the custody of Children's Services.

Hazel Bryant said her niece lived in a foster home there on Legion Lane and got into an altercation with someone else at the home.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2021 16:13

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

willie_dee posted:

He saved the lady in pinks life.

Open offer, anyone thinking this, is welcome to meet up with me and we can set up multiple scenarios where you get to repeatedly try and stop me getting ink all over you with a sharpie without using a gun to stop me.

Maybe instead of taking the time to draw a gun, the officer should have instead grabbed Bryant ~~when~~ right after she shoved the first person to the ground and ran right by him?

E: edited for more clarity

Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Apr 21, 2021

# ¿ Apr 21, 2021 16:36

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 12:14

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

willie_dee posted:

I think he was too busy dealing with the fact someone was kicking someone else in the head during this time and the utter madness that he was arriving to.

But no, all these absolute heroes itt would of both saved the girl in pink and not hurt the girl with the knife who is literally mid stab.

He was literally drawing his gun when she ran right by him. If he had grabbed her instead of drawing his gun, it could have been avoided. I queued up this video so you can see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjf-6xcjkbA&t=60s

# ¿ Apr 21, 2021 16:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Derek Chauvin Trial Thread

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