the basecamp heel turn

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Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

honestly dhh is handling it much better than jason. more likely to see jason sabbatical it out

# ? May 1, 2021 00:10

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 06:45

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

maybe this is me showing my rear end, but the funniest thing to me is that the person linking genocide to making fun of finish* surnames or whatever really does sound like they were being a bit extra. dhh/otherguy could've just been like "hey, whoa, name erasure is a huge problem, but come on here, folks are laughing at Phil Mahiney, not being racist about it. of course it's very easy to go from one to the other, and it's unprofessional anyway, so cut it the gently caress out, it's wrong, and it's not right."

but instead we get....this. if people are going too far with hyperbole, the move is to say "cool your jets on the hyperbole" not light your company on fire lmao

*this is of course taking their word that the list wasn't racist. and let's just say that how they've handled this doesn't exactly give me confidence in their judgments re: what is and is not racist as hell

# ? May 1, 2021 00:29

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

these guys are shitheads and deserve this entirely, but that �upholding white supremacy� tweet makes me think the company culture was poisoned and this was inevitable.

# ? May 1, 2021 00:29

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Achmed Jones posted:

maybe this is me showing my rear end, but the funniest thing to me is that the person linking genocide to making fun of finish* surnames or whatever really does sound like they were being a bit extra. dhh/otherguy could've just been like "hey, whoa, name erasure is a huge problem, but come on here, folks are laughing at Phil Mahiney, not being racist about it. of course it's very easy to go from one to the other, and it's unprofessional anyway, so cut it the gently caress out, it's wrong, and it's not right."

my money is on the list being mostly like "Dick Chardnutts" with the occastional guy named Wang.

but the important takeaway is exactly this:

quote:

but instead we get....this. if people are going too far with hyperbole, the move is to say "cool your jets on the hyperbole" not light your company on fire lmao

# ? May 1, 2021 00:33

Jonny 290: May 5, 2005; [ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

i 300% guarantee you with a tip on top that there is an orangejello/lemonjello joke somewhere in that slack channel's history

# ? May 1, 2021 00:34

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

rotor posted:

my money is on the list being mostly like "Dick Chardnutts" with the occastional guy named Wang.

but the important takeaway is exactly this:

this + also this is, at worst, a mean reversion of some tech ceos. it is comical and dumb and a huge own goal but they're still offering 6 months salary severance to people who don't like it

# ? May 1, 2021 00:39

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

honestly none of this would be even remotely newsworthy if these dipshits hadnt been held up as management wunderkinds for the last decade or so

# ? May 1, 2021 00:40

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

its like ... idk, it's like some bigshot famous hunter getting killed by a rabbit or something.

# ? May 1, 2021 00:41

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

headline at the verge made me rofl a little bit

quote:
Basecamp implodes as employees flee company, including senior staff

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/30/22412714/basecamp-employees-memo-policy-hansson-fried-controversy

# ? May 1, 2021 01:02

Raymond T. Racing: Jun 11, 2019

rotor posted:

my money is on the list being mostly like "Dick Chardnutts" with the occastional guy named Wang.

but the important takeaway is exactly this:

per casey newton:

quote:

Around 2009, Basecamp customer service representatives began keeping a list of names that they found funny. More than a decade later, current employees were so mortified by the practice that none of them would give me a single example of a name on the list. One invoked the sorts of names Bart Simpson used to use when prank calling Moe the Bartender: Amanda Hugginkiss, Seymour Butz, Mike Rotch.

Many of the names were of American or European origin. But others were Asian, or African, and eventually the list � titled �Best Names Ever� � began to make people uncomfortable. What once had felt like an innocent way to blow off steam, amid the ongoing cultural reckoning over speech and corporate responsibility, increasingly looked inappropriate, and often racist.

# ? May 1, 2021 01:11

Archduke Frantz Fanon: Sep 7, 2004

rotor posted:

its like ... idk, it's like some bigshot famous hunter getting killed by a rabbit or something.

chris kyle syndrome

# ? May 1, 2021 01:16

rotor: Jun 11, 2001; classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Buff Hardback posted:

per casey newton:

basecamp employees sound easy to mortify

# ? May 1, 2021 01:23

Best Bi Geek Squid: Mar 25, 2016

This company sounds like it is poorly-run and has a bad workplace culture. I'm glad that I will never have even an appreciable portion of that ceo's wealth

# ? May 1, 2021 01:32

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Achmed Jones posted:

maybe this is me showing my rear end, but the funniest thing to me is that the person linking genocide to making fun of finish* surnames or whatever really does sound like they were being a bit extra. dhh/otherguy could've just been like "hey, whoa, name erasure is a huge problem, but come on here, folks are laughing at Phil Mahiney, not being racist about it. of course it's very easy to go from one to the other, and it's unprofessional anyway, so cut it the gently caress out, it's wrong, and it's not right."

i think you're confused about what the pyramid of hate is saying because it is just "laughing at funny names can very easily lead to being racist about it" and you seem to agree with that?

# ? May 1, 2021 01:44

sleep with the vicious: Apr 2, 2010

rotor posted:

basecamp employees sound easy to mortify

Lol that the employees melted down over Bart Simpson prank names instead of getting their benefits taken away

# ? May 1, 2021 01:46

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

Plorkyeran posted:

the pyramid of hate

it�s a slippery slope from laughing at Dick Butkus to genocide

# ? May 1, 2021 02:12

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

i wonder how bad the attrition will be on monday, when the 2/3 who didnt quit today have had a chance to think about how viable the company they are working for is given that a third of the employees - including a big chunk of the senior staff - just sprinted out the door with no transition or handoff or knowledge transfer

# ? May 1, 2021 02:18

barkbell: Apr 14, 2006; woof

6 months bonus hell yeah

# ? May 1, 2021 02:24

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

"shape it up ur rear end i'm leaving"

# ? May 1, 2021 02:35

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

Plorkyeran posted:

i think you're confused about what the pyramid of hate is saying because it is just "laughing at funny names can very easily lead to being racist about it" and you seem to agree with that?

no, im not confused about the pyramid of hate, i'm confused about what the person actually said. there are dumb and non-dumb ways to make the same point is all.

realistically the person was likely making a reasonable point and dhh or whoever did a big "nobody likes me everybody hates me guess i'll ~~go eat worms~~ implode my company"

i'm curious what this will do to the development of rails

# ? May 1, 2021 02:46

git apologist: Jun 4, 2003

i�m sick of all these hyperbolic reactions to things!!!

*blows up company over people saying racism is bad*

# ? May 1, 2021 03:06

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Achmed Jones posted:

no, im not confused about the pyramid of hate, i'm confused about what the person actually said. there are dumb and non-dumb ways to make the same point is all.

realistically the person was likely making a reasonable point and dhh or whoever did a big "nobody likes me everybody hates me guess i'll ~~go eat worms~~ implode my company"

i'm curious what this will do to the development of rails

quote:

The employees noted that there had never been an internal reckoning over the list, and said it was important to discuss why making fun of customers� names had been wrong. The apology included an image of �the pyramid of hate,� an illustration created by the Anti-Defamation League to show how the most extreme acts of extremist violence are enabled by a foundation of biased attitudes and acts of bias.

[...]

Employees responded mostly positively to the first part of this note. But Hansson went further, taking exception to the use of the pyramid of hate in a workplace discussion. He told me today that attempting to link the list of customer names to potential genocide represented a case of �catastrophizing� � one that made it impossible for any good-faith discussions to follow. Presumably, any employees who are found contributing to genocidal attitudes should be fired on the spot � and yet nobody involved seemed to think that contributing to or viewing the list was a fireable offense. If that�s the case, Hansson said, then the pyramid of hate had no place in the discussion. To him, it escalated employees� emotions past the point of being productive.

if this account of events is accurate (which it certainly may not be), dhh railed against the concept of the pyramid of hate and the idea that relatively harmless things set the foundation for worse things rather than the employee being extra in their presentation of the concept. to me it sounds like the employee didn't make the point "making fun of these names leads to genocide" and it was dhh who brought that up based on the poh image.

# ? May 1, 2021 05:23

my homie dhall: Dec 9, 2010; honey, oh please, it's just a machine

quote:

In a response to Hansson�s post, one employee noted that the way we treat names � especially foreign names � is deeply connected to social and racial hierarchies.
....
Hansson�s response to this employee took aback many of the workers I spoke with. He dug through old chat logs to find a time when the employee in question participated in a discussion about a customer with a funny-sounding name. Hansson posted the message � visible to the entire company � and dismissed the substance of the employee�s complaint.

as a poster you have to appreciate a move like this

# ? May 1, 2021 05:35

Best Bi Geek Squid: Mar 25, 2016

sounds like this guy will never be the head of a major corporation

# ? May 1, 2021 05:38

my homie dhall: Dec 9, 2010; honey, oh please, it's just a machine

also as a dev with the job market as it is, you'd have to be nuts to turn down 6 months of severance, their biggest mistake might have been mkaing the offer too good

# ? May 1, 2021 05:56

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

Plorkyeran posted:

to me it sounds like the employee didn't make the point "making fun of these names leads to genocide" and it was dhh who brought that up based on the poh image.

ah gotcha, that's fair. the two things i i know for sure are that dhh is a wiener and that basecamp's implosion is extremely funny

# ? May 1, 2021 05:57

minivanmegafun: Jul 27, 2004

my homie dhall posted:

also as a dev with the job market as it is, you'd have to be nuts to turn down 6 months of severance, their biggest mistake might have been mkaing the offer too good

yeah even if I was at a gig I was super happy at I�d almost certainly take a six month vacation or just a six month bonus. the dev market is bonkers rn

https://twitter.com/lunasorcery/status/1388268264925564937?s=21

# ? May 1, 2021 07:22

buttchugging adderall: May 7, 2007; COME GET SOME

My old job did the "do not EVER QUESTION MANAGEMENT" heel turn recently too but lol basecamp did it in the best way possible.

And I mean that unironically, at least they're being honest about their lovely attitude.

# ? May 1, 2021 14:15

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

the list could easily be worse than it sounds

name of the year has managed to go quite a few seasons without getting canceled for racism

# ? May 1, 2021 14:26

mediaphage: Mar 22, 2007; Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

the last place i worked before going freelance several years ago my manager screamed at me, and his boss backed him up, that it wasn't my place to suggest that the direction the website was going was a mistake and that i should just be quiet and do what i'm told

they ended up spending millions and completely running the entire segment into the ground and traffic, last i checked, is nonexistent. and they started with literally millions of hits a month

# ? May 1, 2021 15:01

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

i know you can't bc dox but dang i wanna see the before and after

# ? May 1, 2021 15:33

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

Achmed Jones posted:

dhh is a dumbass but i dont think he'll do the cancel-culture thing simply bc he's positioned himself as opposed to the type of person that uses the phrase "cancel culture"

you fool, you absolute mark

https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1387731297980854272

# ? May 1, 2021 22:30

Achmed Jones: Oct 16, 2004

also im not gonna actually read that so if im wrong about being wrong and dhh is being reasonable (unlikely!) idk tell me i guess but either way im wrong somehow so lol

# ? May 1, 2021 22:32

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

I'm still trying to parse the text of the tweet

# ? May 1, 2021 22:35

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

flakeloaf posted:

I'm still trying to parse the text of the tweet

same

# ? May 1, 2021 22:41

MrQueasy: Nov 15, 2005; Probiot-ICK

flakeloaf posted:

I'm still trying to parse the text of the tweet

dhh is quoting something he thinks applies to his situation, but I don't get the impression here that he acknowledges the difference between twitter mobs and a company with less than 100 employees.

# ? May 1, 2021 22:50