(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Please continue. e: my mother's late uncle spent some time on Cuba, and praised it highly. This helps me contextualize the things he talked about.
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Aug 3, 2021 11:21
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 01:47 |
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:i'm not talking about the actual work of leon trotsky the individual, but a tendency that emerged after his death based on envy and resentment and a sense of "betrayal" at the hands of whatever the official left is at the time. they see the central contradiction as being between the left and its leadership. also hence the guru cults and entryism Huh. I have actually described dissident Stalinists in pre-90s Yugoslavia in a very similar way before, even including the weird reminiscence to stereotypical Trot stuff. A friend's parents were Stalinist children of dissident Stalinists, doing entryism into... our (extremely neoliberal) Democratic Party :/ (she was a trot for a while as a "gently caress you mom and dad", and had a very unpleasant surprise about those guys - namely, being identical) so I got an extended look into what those orgs looked like. They suffered a lot from basically being cornered into socialising with mostly other people who wanted to bring Yugoslavia down, which explains some, uh, interesting views they developed.
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Dec 14, 2021 03:30
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If Western third worldism was summed up in a single book, it would have to be titled "Nothing to be Done" Or maybe "We already outsourced everything else to the third world, might as well outsource fixing our mess" Or "Being one of the good ones for dummies" Or "I failed my DSA bid to become an intern Gritty so instead I'm gonna rant about communist integrity" More seriously, dead gay comedy forums posted:I'm brazilian and I think this perspective is extremely counterproductive in terms of aiding us in the "developing"/third world basically this, from ex-Yu
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Dec 26, 2021 11:15
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Ardennes posted:Going through this thread, it seems rather "agnostic" to current geopolitical events...which is a bit of a headscratcher. Be more direct.
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Dec 27, 2021 17:37
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Dec 27, 2021 19:21
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To participate in the derail a bit, a Chinese photographer, Xiao Yang, made a series of photographs of Yugoslavia's brutalist monuments and architecture. e: Link below is just for the pictures themselves, there's probably a better place to look at them somewhere https://www.diyphotography.net/photographer-captures-magnificent-photos-of-abandoned-concrete-monuments-around-ex-yugoslavia/
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Jan 28, 2022 20:19
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A decisive moment in the crippling of Yugoslavia's socialist self-management was the transition from collective ownership of the collective property - you own the factory you work in, but only collectively, there is no individual share to cash out with - (with the state/party having a say in how things were run to a degree, though how much exactly depending on the industry itself) to individual ownership of the collective property, comparable to holding shares in a company, transition to the sort of system you're talking about. Despite still being within a socialist system, the poo poo it caused is what I would call, while being extremely polite, an utter, complete, and unmitigated disaster. Under a capitalist system, you're basically facing either being disrupted and destroyed by market forces and the hostility of the legal system to the kind of enterprise you'd be trying to maintain - or turn into an equivalent of an utterly harmless vegan coop restaurant.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:34
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:also fyi good 
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Apr 2, 2022 16:38
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The only Trots I interacted with IRL that weren't vomit-worthy opportunists that kept ruining everything they touch were the local IMT guys, and even that is mostly a factor of them focusing on working with unions and focusing their internationalism on other marxist orgs in the Balkans and mostly ignoring the attempts of the big British branch to turn their Balkans wings into a shitshow. There's a niche potential for Trots here to be ok-ish if their roots were young communists organizing at a time of victorious reaction when the other big options discredited themselves in one way or another. If it's on a campus, or if it has serious ties to western Trot groups, stay the gently caress away.
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Apr 15, 2022 16:55
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Day laborers were always a thing.
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Aug 5, 2022 00:07
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mila kunis posted:yugoslavian federalism directly led to the splitting apart of those countries Technically correct, if you avoid anything that might lead to you going up, you'll never have to fear falling down.
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Aug 13, 2022 18:09
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You can thank Ranković and his clique for utterly discrediting centralization of any sort with their unbelievably spectacular spook-brained fuckup attempt to further it, which got everyone else to massively backpedal.
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Aug 13, 2022 18:16
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For a less flippant answer, poo poo's complex, and there were victories and defeats made during Socialist Yugoslavia's existence, and I would say that overly focusing on the federalism is kinda missing the forest for the trees. Failing to centralize was a failure of Yugoslavia's policy, but a failure that didn't happen in isolation from a broader context. For one, it underestimates the enormous amount of fuckery from NATO&pals that was happening for a longass time, systematically destroying Yugoslavia's foreign policy successes and damaging its internal stability, without which the federalism would not have been able to evolve into what it eventually became. e: ugh, i'm bad at words, i hope this doesn't sound too incoherent e2: the destruction of foreign policy successes is not a separate issue from the internal stability, due to how much Yugoslavia was idelogically dependent on internationalism, and is its own topic, honestly. Yugoslavia invested a lot into infrastructure projects in third world countries, establishing good relationships and mutual economic (and scientific, cultural, etc) benefits with them. A frequent comment is that Yugoslavia's offers weren't the cheapest available, but were the only ones that were exactly what it said on the tin. If you go down the list of countries that had strong economic ties to Yugoslavia, and then look at which countries America's foreign fuckery went berserk on, you'll find a very ~fun~ degree of overlap. e3: You may, in fact, find some interesting parallels here with things relevant today. my dad has issued a correction as of 18:39 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 18:32
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StashAugustine posted:I've always been a fan of the theory that Max Stirner did not exist and was purely a trick Engles pulled on Marx to get him wound up Same.
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Aug 25, 2022 21:18
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Regardless of what you think of it, stop reading it as if it's written for a free-floating atom. It's a guide on functioning within a revolutionary communist organization, it explicitly refers to a revolutionary collective, it's not lifestyle tips. 
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Aug 29, 2022 15:48
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The inability to understand the difference between the two results in you becoming the "this is the correct science but it's no way for me to live" guy.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:23
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The Fourth Meeting of the Committee on the Outer Paintjob of The Shithouse That May Not Even Get Built In The First Place may now commence.
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Aug 29, 2022 18:19
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My father played semi-pro basketball a long-rear end time ago, he even got an offer to join the youth team of a major Yugoslav big league team, but he refused because he knew he wasn't good enough to be a regular pick, and didn't want to be a bench-warmer. Eventually he got banned for life for punching a referee. The referee was, in fact, bribed, but that fact didn't really help him. I think he'd be flattered if I told him about the above conversation. I got to hang out with Ranko Žeravica as a kid thanks to his past career, though, which was cool.
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Aug 29, 2022 19:48
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I miss Galactic Acid. Dude made good posts in these threads but hasn't been around in a while.
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Aug 31, 2022 08:48
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I think that there's a certain element of magical thinking when people from USA talk about working hours, which is forgetting how much work goes into things before you even get to see them. While you do indeed have plenty of bullshit jobs, a lot of them are in a non-trivial way related to imperialist extraction from other places - getting rid of these implies getting rid of said imperialism, and you'll have to cover for the gaps it leaves. Which is to say, you'll suddenly have a lot more manufacturing jobs in USA itself, among other things, instead of layers of bullshittery required to get people 6000+ miles away desperate enough to make you boots for 1.5$ an hour (or worse. waaaaaay worse.) and the logistics of getting that stuff over to your hands while squeezing out every single possible dime from the process. Under a socialist system, you'd still genuinely be much better off, the gap between the big burgeoise and you is just that enormous, but the process of actually getting to a steady state where this is possible (late edit: "this" referring to a major reduction in work hours for everyone) is a non-trivial matter, even disregarding the whole "actually establishing socialist control over the beating heart of global imperialism while the climate is going to hell" part. As a side note, people in the imperial core genuinely (and I mean genuinely) grasping the full, unfiltered intensity of imperialism and all the associated horrors, and taking a hard turn to the right is absolutely not an unusual thing - especially among people who realize that they depend on it in some way (even if it's as simple as having an ok paying state funded job after a life spent dealing with poverty). Don't "expose" imperialism without a followup, otherwise you're just working unpaid hours doing prepwork for those who will do the rhetorical follow up on things you say. my dad has issued a correction as of 08:23 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 07:00
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Care to bring up someone specific as the target of your complaints or are you just going to pretend you're on twitter and vaguely grumble into the void? There's more here I'd comment on, but I'll wait for the reply first.
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Sep 3, 2022 10:56
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As a somewhat generic bit of advice: if you're not providing an illustration of everything, you need to be careful about what you choose to have illustrated. If you're trying to simplify a more complex work into something more understandible in a quick read, attention is a precious resource, and clarity matters. So for example, the funny dino comic about the tragedy of the commons? You absolutely do not want someone who glanced over this to only end up remembering 'the tragedy of the commons', especially if it's divorced from the "it's also bullshit" part that is critical to the message you are trying to convey. This isn't pop science where anything the reader remembers is an "oh, that's cool, I guess" divorced from anything else the person will be doing in their life, you're trying to get an important point across in an environment actively hostile to it.
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Sep 4, 2022 14:33
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Plenty of bullshit physical labor to get rid of. Maintaining USA levels of road-centric infrastructure is an enormous sink of money, resources and human effort. And not exactly an pleasant one, either. I'd venture a guess that filling up potholes in Arizona is a job people would prefer not having to do as much if they had other options.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:33
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:went to a starbucks union sip-in on labor day. there are a lot of courageous people fighting the union busters in 2022. i think they are the heroic and creative people. Hearing about the Starbucks and Amazon unions is always cool.
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Sep 6, 2022 08:34
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I would tend to agree.
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Sep 6, 2022 09:10
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I hate that I could figure out which goon the quote is from before even looking it up.
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Sep 15, 2022 17:54
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StashAugustine posted:Marx claims to be making cold amoral evaluations of the capitalist system but he gets mad too often for me to believe him. Dude gets outright furious even in Capital.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:14
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The upper limit of usefulness of information is your ability to act on it.
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Oct 11, 2022 18:44
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atelier morgan posted:the great thing about the french post-war intellectual tradition is that you can insert 'for loving children' at almost any/every point it would fit in this post and be accurate daaaaaamn (true)
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Nov 15, 2022 18:53
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V. Illych L. posted:the PCF was not at any point as far as i know in favour of abolishing the age of consent Making fun of Sartre, Foucault, Deleuze, and friends for the age of consent law abolition petition will never not be funny, tho.
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Nov 15, 2022 20:12
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In the past I've interacted with a number of younger French communists who seemed to have their heads and hearts in the right place, and I genuinely wish them the best.
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Nov 15, 2022 20:17
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 I'm getting strong Trot vibes from this one, how correct am I?
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Nov 16, 2022 00:09
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I never liked Žižek. I mostly knew of him from the poo poo he did in the early 90s until he started being an internet meme.
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Nov 17, 2022 11:54
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I will be passing the Great Wall of Hungary again tomorrow morning, so guess what I think of the virtues of a militarized fortress Europe, with or without USA. e: And to all the people asking me to go look at the Berlin Wall and pontificate about the horror of it or whatever the gently caress: gently caress you. No, seriously, gently caress you. e2: Just realized this isn't the thread I thought it was, but whatever. my dad has issued a correction as of 13:17 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 13:14
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Nobody on the forums said anything about the wall, it's just a topic that came up a lot for me irl for the past week since I'm in Berlin atm and i'm kinda sick of it. I've been doing a tiny trip report in the cspam EU thread. my dad has issued a correction as of 13:29 on Nov 17, 2022 |
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Nov 17, 2022 13:27
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I spent a lot of my spare time there on the museum island, it's cool. I'll post my impressions in the other thread once I'm back in Serbia.
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Nov 17, 2022 13:35
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I've been looking through some stuff, and was reading a part of a transcript of the 1959 conversation between Che and Tito in Yugoslavia, covering a whole range of topics from agrarian reform (Tito: Crush the big latifund owners, seize what you can from outright traitors, take it easy on the smaller landowners for now, be extremely cautious with how you approach taking USA's stuff and consider offering them reparations of some sort - Che: Pretty much what we're doing, yeah), worries about the near certainty of USA doing some dumb paratrooper poo poo or the like (Tito points out that an outright invasion is unlikely and it's probably going to be some weird commando raid, with Che saying that if something like that happens, it's going to fail miserably), education opportunities (lots of weight on this one, Cuba was a revolutionary country of uneducated peasants, and while proud of it, also quite eager to get rid of the "uneducated" thing asap), buying electric and agricultural machinery and domestic appliances, etc. It's interesting how it's both very friendly (Che is being almost... fanboy-ish? a little bit? at moments) and also kind of tense, with implications that there were some previous incidents, and with Che apologizing for his government's colder attitude towards Yugoslavia. I don't know anything relevant about Cuban-Yugoslav relations in that period, sadly, so I can't comment on it. Tito at one point says "Time (magazine) has always been the first voice of reaction". Tito also does his best sales pitch for potential trade deals on top of what Che suggested (I don't think there's any international meeting where he didn't at least try to convince someone to buy something extra that's made in Yugoslavia. Dude was legit a great salesman, if a bit insufferable for it sometimes) Also included a funny anecdote from Che - Krishna Menon told him that it would be best for Cuba to send some professor as its representative to India, to which Che could do nothing but laugh and say "What professor? We don't have any." my dad has issued a correction as of 12:43 on Nov 20, 2022 |
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Nov 20, 2022 12:40
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is this spillover from some other thread?
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Nov 22, 2022 16:19
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One day I'll talk about how Trotsky would not shut the gently caress up about certain things about the Balkans which he utterly misinterpreted (Often trying to wash some idiot idea of his with "And you see, Serbian/Macedonian/Greek socialists talked about that and this other thing I'm writing about is totally that same thing too") in a way that would later get a bunch of people here NKVD-d because a telephone game from here to Moscow would transform 'that Balkans stuff' into 'that stuff Trotsky talked about'. The man was genuinely a brilliant thinker, but nowhere near as brilliant as he thought he was, especially once his ego gets involved.
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Nov 23, 2022 15:07
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 01:47 |
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A communist, alone, on a deserted island, is not a communist.
my dad has issued a correction as of 21:31 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 21:28
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